New Smash Bros?

[Chaos Warp]

 

Sonic is not Solid Snake. He's not a random 3rd party anymore.

Still not a Nintendo character. Smash Bros is a Nintendo crossover fighter: Sonic has enough representation, and I think he fits well as a 3rd party because of his history with Nintendo. But in the end he's still a 3rd party, and the representation he got was fine. I'd rather they put more energy/time into the Nintendo characters/stages then third party characters: again, that can mostly come in the form of DLC. 

[KHCast]

Still not a Nintendo character. Smash Bros is a Nintendo crossover fighter: Sonic has enough representation, and I think he fits well as a 3rd party because of his history with Nintendo. But in the end he's still a 3rd party, and the representation he got was fine. I'd rather they put more energy/time into the Nintendo characters/stages then third party characters: again, that can mostly come in the form of DLC. 

More remixed songs, a better stage and Sonic himself not feeling so broken/weak would be nice though.

[Johnny Boy]

in Addition to that, Making Eggman a Playable Fighter is really not that Hard to do (if this has been said before, my apologies)

Exhibit A

Just give Eggman a Mech Suit like here (wouldn't even need to be all that Big, about Bowser Size should be more than enough), and Add in Some weapons (like the Drill Tank, the Wrecking Ball, his Cannon from SA2 etc) as Special Moves and maybe have something like Big Arms or Egg Dragoon as a Final Smash and presto, a Perfectly playable Eggman.

To be honest, I always kind of pictured Eggman fighting in one of those bulky mech suits kind of like the ones Lex Luthor wears in Injustice: Gods Among Us.

http://injusticegodsamongus.wikia.com/wiki/Lex_Luthor#Modal

[Chaos Warp]

More remixed songs, a better stage and Sonic himself not feeling so broken/weak would be nice though.

I agree. I liked Sonic in Brawl though: just make his homing attack better, replace his side-b with the lightdash or something, and give him a wee bit more KO power and he's be golden. 

[WarioBone]

Ugh.  I hope Sonic is the only Sonic character.

 

I would much rather have more Nintendo characters than any other Sonic character.  Fuck, I'd take more Nintendo characters over Sonic himself.  This is a game to celebrate Nintendo's history, not give fanservice to Sonic fans.

[KHCast]

Ugh.  I hope Sonic is the only Sonic character.

 

I would much rather have more Nintendo characters than any other Sonic character.  Fuck, I'd take more Nintendo characters over Sonic himself.  This is a game to celebrate Nintendo's history, not give fanservice to Sonic fans.

Nobody here was really wanting that though. We understand that this is a Nintendo love letter. Sonic being in the game didn't hurt that aspect at all. He just meshes well with the Nintendo universe. It's just what was in brawl was just kinda...disappointing. Barely any remixes? A really cheap and abuseable stage? A rushed in character that came out as "okay". Those kind of things is what really bothered people. Wanting that stuff fixed or changed isn't really that much to ask for is it?

[JezMM]

For the record, in my opinion I really couldn't care less if there's a second Sonic character.  I WOULD like a second Sonic stage though, even if his first one is just Green Hill from Brawl as a nostalgia stage.

 

The real "character" of the Sonic franchise is the levels at the end of the day.  If we get Green Hill and a new stage, great.  If we get two new stages, I'd be over the moon.

[LATER BUDDY]

Honestly I kinda see Sonic, despite not being Nintendo, a big part of Nintendo's history to represent. Being classic rivals and blah-de-blah, and then having Sega and Nintendo team up on various occasions is a pretty big deal. Personally, yeah I probably would only want Sonic playable too, but if they added one more just for kicks, I'd be down with that too and totally understand even. I mean depending on how you look at it, I'd say Sonic even has a bigger role in Nintendo than some of it's own franchises like Star Fox or F-Zero. Of course not trying to be like "aw come on guys, Sonic needs to be a front role in this!" but more over expressing my thoughts that I believe Sonic is much more than just a 3rd Party bonus character to Nintendo in this game.

[JaidynReiman]

I think Sonic himself, his stage, and his story should be more fleshed out this time. Sonic should not get a lot of representation in-game due to being a third party, though. Just his inclusion alone is enough. His gameplay should be fleshed out so he's a little better (despite him not being very good I STILL main'd Sonic, although note I don't participate in tournaments).

 

It'd be perfect if this time around Sonic had a larger role in the story (puh-lease, there WILL be another story mode this time; the previous one was quite epic, so I don't see why they won't make a new one).

 

 

...on that note, I do agree with the previous poster in that Sonic actually has a bigger reputation on Nintendo that Star Fox and F-Zero. Don't forget Mother, too; three games? Yeah, not much of a franchise. At the same time I still don't think there should be more than one Sonic character. I wouldn't mind more Sonic cameos such as assists or making Eggman a boss, though, that would be quite awesome to see Eggman as a boss working with the other villains even if he isn't playable.

[Sean]

SSB is a game celebrating Nintendo's history? Is Sonic not part of that? Sonic Adventure 2: Battle wasn't one of the highest selling third-party GameCube games of all time for no reason.

I seriously don't think that some people today really understand the sheer weight of having a Sonic game appear on a Nintendo console, as well as his appearance in Smash. We certainly don't need additional Sonic characters, but it would be great for him to get more than the bare minimum that he received in the last game.

[Kareemadeem]

Sonic is not Solid Snake. He's not a random 3rd party anymore.

Sonic Triple Trouble (Game Gear) Good Ending

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAxz_vH1eLU

At the 1:45 mark H.Kojima is thanked, so does that mean Solid Snake is still connected in some way?

[Gabz Girl]

Sonic makes a lot more sense being in the new SSB than Snake. Is anyone even sure that Snake will be in again?

 

One thing's for sure, if he's in then give him a better stage (NO SEASIDE HILL PLS), loads more remixes and a better Assist Trophy. Maybe make Sonic a more interesting character to play as too, as I always felt his moveset was not very imaginative. Because he won't be rushed in like he was in Brawl though, I'm sure they will implement him much better into the game.

[Autosaver]

Snake was only in the game because Snake's creator begged for him to be in it.

 

But f him. I mean seriously. He begs to be in Brawl but won't make games for Nintendo platforms? "But MGS: 3D!!" Oh.. a lazy port that was nothing like the tech demo and was incredibly inferior to the HD collection? M'kay.

[Wraith]

Kojima likes to push the limit of what hardware can do. You can't really blame him for favoring playstation. Especially since it's kinda Metal Gear's home.

[Pawn]

Death Egg with the gravity switching would be a great stage for Sonic. The stage could overlook the planet ala S3&K, but take inspiration from Sonic 2 by having Eggman watch you fight from some kind of monitor (maybe a floating monitor since there'd be no wall).

[Kareemadeem]

Snake was only in the game because Snake's creator begged for him to be in it.

 

But f him. I mean seriously. He begs to be in Brawl but won't make games for Nintendo platforms? "But MGS: 3D!!" Oh.. a lazy port that was nothing like the tech demo and was incredibly inferior to the HD collection? M'kay.

MGS: 3D is not the only game on Nintendo platforms:

 

Secondhand Snake: Metal Gear's Nintendo History  (under spoiler tag to shorten the length)

A Nintendo system has never received a true Metal Gear debut. But is that a bad thing?

by Lucas M. Thomas

February 15, 2012

 

 

We're just days away from the launch of the 3DS remake of Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, and when it ships it will continue a trend that's defined the Metal Gear brand on Nintendo platforms for 25 years. Nintendo never gets MGS first. None of the franchise's titles have ever debuted on a Nintendo machine. Instead, the series' Nintendo history contains only ports, remakes and secondhand appearances. But is that a bad thing? Read on to find out.

And there you have it - Metal Gear Solid's Nintendo history, every piece of it coming to Nintendo systems after appearing elsewhere first. The extra time invested has almost always been worth it, though. Even the first Metal Gear, which was worse off after the porting process, helped keep the series from disappearing in a puff of smoke with its strong American sales.

Let us know your thoughts on Solid Snake's missions across Nintendo platforms by checking in a comment below. (No fair bringing up Snake's Revenge on NES - real fans know that one doesn't count.) Then stayed tuned to IGN for our official review of Snake Eater on 3DS, coming soon.

[Chooch]

Snake was only in the game because Snake's creator begged for him to be in it.

 

But f him. I mean seriously. He begs to be in Brawl but won't make games for Nintendo platforms? "But MGS: 3D!!" Oh.. a lazy port that was nothing like the tech demo and was incredibly inferior to the HD collection? M'kay.

With that logic I'd almost think you'd be against the inclusion of Sonic in Smash Bros. since outside of Colors all the Wii got were the Storybook games and inferior versions of multi-platform titles like Sonic 4: Episode I and Sonic Unleashed.  The Wii didn't get Generations either.

 

I'm guessing Sonic Lost World changed that somehow? Nintendo fans haven't really gotten the best treatment from Sega in recent years.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Chooch

[Teoskaven]

I think Travis Touchdown is more suited to replace Snake's role (not to mention that Suda51 seems to like the idea of him being in SSB).

-yes, i know that there is an improved PS3 verion of the first No More Heroes, but basically the main 2 games are famous Wii selling titles-

 

I'm sorry to Metal Gear fans, but aside from the stated chapters, the series is more attached to Sony then Nintendo. Guys like Travis Touchdown, Megaman or Simon Belmont are more suited for being guests.

[Komodin]

Nintendo fans haven't really gotten the best treatment from Sega in recent years.

 

To be fair, though, the Playstation and Xbox fans weren't all that better off, considering that only Sonic Generations and the Sonic 4 titles got a generally decent reception.

[Autosaver]

With that logic I'd almost think you'd be against the inclusion of Sonic in Smash Bros. since outside of Colors all the Wii got were the Storybook games and inferior versions of multi-platform titles like Sonic 4: Episode I and Sonic Unleashed.  The Wii didn't get Generations either.

What. u srs bro

 

I liked the storybook games and they actually weren't as bad as games being released on other platforms at the time (Sonic 06).

Sonic 4 besides not being HD wasn't that bad.

Sonic Unleashed is understandable due to the hardware differences. It wasn't that bad either.

Sonic Colors was terrific.

I like Zero Gravity.

Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was THE BOMB

Sonic Advance was cool

Sonic Advance 2 was MORE cool.

Sonic Advance 3 yay.

Sonic Rush was one of my favorite DS Launch games.

Sonic Rush Adventure was a great sequel.

Mario & Sonic aren't bad party games.

Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog was superior on the Gamecube.

Sonic Lost World is set to be a terrific game.

Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed featured exclusive game modes, 5 players support, and off-play.

 

Overall, SEGA support on Nintendo platforms have been great. Sure there may have been misses here and there, but overall at least it got a ton of games. Sonic has been incredibly popular. Snake on the other hand..?

 

Uh.. some games on NES/GB Color or something.

Some shitty overpriced 3DS port.

And some remake that shoehorned mechanics in a game that wasn't made for them.

 

compared to

 

A highly critically acclaimed GBA series.

A highly rated DS series.

One of Sonic's best games exclusive to Wii and DS.

A 3 exclusive games partnership with Nintendo.

Starring with the most popular video game mascot in the world in the olympic games.

Being one of the highest selling Wii & Gamecube games of all time.

Multiplatform support (All Stars Racing, Transformed, Sonic 4)

 

Where was Revengeance? Why didn't the Wii U get an HD Collection? How come the 3DS port of MGS sucked so bad despite having a tech demo being 100x superior to it? Why was that same 3DS game overpriced when you could get the HD collection for the same price?

 

Maybe my opinion would change a bit if they announce Nintendo support. MGS5 for Wii U would do the trick. If ANOTHER MGS skips Nintendo platforms...

 

In my honest opinion, I do not feel that Snake deserves a role as a 3rd party character in the Super Smash series. While some people found that he was cool and all, he fits way more in the category of "random 3rd party" than Sonic will ever be.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Autosaver

[Chooch]

You cropped out the part where I said "in recent years" making the vast majority of your funny list of examples irrelevant.

 

Also you seem to be forgetting that Revengeance was in development years before the Wii U ever surfaced. Why the fuck would they port the game so late into its development cycle? Kojima was having a hard enough time getting the game finished before Platinum came it as it is! That's not how shit works.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Chooch

[Teoskaven]

Maybe they will do an enanched version later on like WB did with Batman Arkham City. Who knows.

[Autosaver]

You cropped out the part where I said "in recent years" making the vast majority of your funny list of examples irrelevant

How recent? One year? Two years? Last generation? Games have a long development cycle so 'recent years' is a bullshit term to use. You're not going to get a ton of support in such a short time frame. Comparing the history of both titles is a better comparison, especially with other users bringing up the GC remake, NES games, and Game Boy Color title. The point still stands, SEGA support on Nintendo platforms have been huge compared to Metal Gear Solid support. It's silly to even compare the two! Here, let's make ANOTHER list of just last generation games.

 

Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity (Early Wii title)

Sonic & the Secret Rings (Sonic 06 came out other systems, while being the bigger game it sucked compared to Secret Rings)

Sonic Unleashed (Expected to not have a gigantic scope, but game was still fun none-the-less during the day time stages. Both versions sucked overall.)

Sonic All Stars Transformed (Great port, superior in my opinion due to many support controller types, 5 player online, and off tv play)

Sonic All Stars Racing (It's not HD.. Ok? That's totally unreasonable to expect anything else.)

Sonic and the Black Knight (I'll give you this one, but at least it was a game that came out for the system. Mediocre)

 

Sonic Rush (Excellent title!)

Sonic Rush Adventure (Great sequel!)

Sonic Colors DS (Decent Dimps version of main version)

 

Sonic 4 Episode 1 (It's not HD.. again?)

Sonic Generations 3D (Eh... features its own stages is kind of cool I guess)

 

Mario & Sonic 2008 (Starring with the biggest mascot?!)

Mario & Sonic 2010 (AGAIN?)

Mario & Sonic 2012

Mario & Sonic 2014

 

Sonic Lost Worlds (Exclusive Wii U and 3DS)

Sonic Colors (Exclusive Wii)

Huge SEGA library on Virtual Console

 

Titles bolded are more 'recent' or whatever

Look at all the support on the Nintendo system. The Mario & Sonic games have been million sellers and are actually decent party games. Sonic Colors was a fantastic Wii and DS exclusive and both sold millions of copies. The Sonic Rush quickly supported the DS when it came out, showcasing the ability of what it could do. Same with Secret Rings, it had a lot of polish and showcased motion controls. Sonic All Stars Racing and Racing Transformed were both kart games that sold well. They weren't quickly done ports, they had a lot of effort put into them. Sumo actually cared about the systems while making the game. Sonic 4 Episode 1 was also a decent port to the system. We also had a ton of Virtual Console releases of the classic games. I don't think we got Metal Gear on the Virtual Console service.

SEGA has shown that they truly care for Nintendo platforms by making exclusives and other titles for Nintendo platforms. SEGA and Nintendo have a great partnership with each other as shown with the Olympic games. Their history together has also been tight with lots of support. This even branches off the Sonic series with other exclusive titles from other series. It's a no-brainer on Sonic's appearance in Smash Bros. There's even a rumor of Sonic appearing in a Mario Kart crossover.

 

Kojima on the other hand has often praised Nintendo platforms, but has never done anything with them. The 3DS game for example looked like it could have been an awesome enhancement of a popular game. Instead, it fell flat and was overpriced. It was embarrassing to see the game carry a $40 price tag when the HD collection was the same price and contained the game AND two others. The Wii saw no releases. It was odd seeing Snake appear without having a single title before and after the release. A spin-off? DS game styled like the GBC game? Future support? You can give as many excuses as you want for why it possibly didn't happen, but it still has the same end value. It never happened! If MGS5 doesn't hit Wii U, then that will be even more embarrassing. Also, what about that second HD collection? Why not make a Wii U version? Don't ask just me on my opinion on Snake's inclusion. Go to a Nintendo fanbase centralized site and they would share the same thoughts on Snake's inclusion in SSB4.

 

Comparing Sonic support and Snake support is laughable at best. One has tremendous support, the other has uh... something?

 

 

Also you seem to be forgetting that Revengeance was in development years before the Wii U ever surfaced. Why the fuck would they port the game so late into its development cycle? Kojima was having a hard enough time getting the game finished before Platinum came it as it is! That's not how shit works.

 

You do realize that the game has been done and redone several times? It's irrelevant to bring up the game during that period when it could barely settle finalizing on which direction the game was heading in. The Wii U was revealed at E3 in 2011, a similar time in which Platinum Games was hired to work on the game. The E3 reveal was no a surprise to developers, as I guarantee Nintendo probably talked with developers before hand to start working on the system. Didn't Kojima say all these positive things about both the 3DS and Wii U too? Hell, Platinum Games even said that a Wii U release could happen if Kojima approved it. Seems silly to suggest this if it was impossible to even start on it? The game taking advantage of the Wii U gamepad and being released sounded like it could have sold a ton of copies. I would have bought it. A lot of Nintendo fans were interested in the game.

 

I'd also like to point out that other multiplatform games were ported months/years after they were released on other platforms. Mass Effect 3, a game released on Xbox360/PS3 a long time before hand, was enhanced for the Wii U. Need for Speed: Most Wanted was also enhanced for the Wii U. Same with Arkham City - released after hand. While it's true a Wii U version being released on the same day as other platforms probably wouldn't have happened, I wouldn't mind a later release coming in. I think All Stars Racing Transformed released later if I'm not mistaken. It's not silly to suggest or impossible to make a port of a game. It would have supported the Wii U and I'm sure Nintendo fans would love that. That would put even more emphasis on people recommending Snake in Brawl.

 

Metal Gear Solid characters made more sense in games like All Stars Battle Royale. I didn't feel his inclusion was really worthy in Brawl. It's even more silly for me to think of him appearing in SSB4. I'd love to see time spent on adding another first party character or adding a something from Mighty Switch Force or Shin'en's titles.

 

Overall, on the discussion on returning 3rd party characters. I feel adding Sonic back in is justified. He's clearly a big character on Nintendo platforms and with Nintendo fans. Sonic inclusion makes a hell lot of sense while Snake's inclusion on the other hand doesn't deserve it as much. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Namco third party character with Snake being removed.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Autosaver

[Dandp]

You cropped out the part where I said "in recent years" making the vast majority of your funny list of examples irrelevant.

 

Also you seem to be forgetting that Revengeance was in development years before the Wii U ever surfaced. Why the fuck would they port the game so late into its development cycle? Kojima was having a hard enough time getting the game finished before Platinum came it as it is! That's not how shit works.

 

In recent years, there have been alot more Sonic games on Nintendo platforms compared to Metal gear games.

Overall, Sonic being included makes alot more sense. However I'm glad both were included and would like both in the next game (although snake may be less likely to appear, I hope he does)

[Chooch]

I'm fine with you not wanting Solid Snake to return in Brawl because he isn't exactly as nice of a fit as a character like Sonic but all this Kojima hates Nintendo stuff is just completely off the wall and ridiculous to me.

 

Also, regardless of your personal stance on a lot of those spin off titles (most of them being handheld games), I think plenty of people would be willing the trade them for something as major as Sonic Generations. *shrugs*

 

That's about all I have left to say on the matter. I think I've done enough damage already.