Why do people want Sonic Adventure 3?

[Tornado]

Nostalgia lets them believe that SA2 was the last good sonic game, when in fact, it was not.

[Nepenthe]

So basically, the same reason people wanted S4? I could've told you that.

[sonfan1984]

BUMP

After asking this question in the skype chat, many people *you know who you are...* have agreed that people only want SA3 because of Chao Gardens, and the fact that Nostalgia lets them believe that SA2 was the last good sonic game, when in fact, it was not.

Edited September 30, 2011 by sonfan1984

[T-Min]

BUMP

After asking this question in the skype chat, many people *you know who you are...* have agreed that people only want SA3 because of Chao Gardens, and the fact that Nostalgia lets them believe that SA2 was the last good sonic game, when in fact, it was not.

This statement can be taken one of two ways: that SA2 was a bad game or some later games were, in fact, good. Either way, it implies that said opinion is fact and that's no good.

Also, why bump this thread? I'm getting sick of the title "Sonic Adventure 3" and all the arguments it causes, and I'm sure most of you are too. You didn't have to bump this thread to make the statement you did; you could have just made a status update or something.

And I highly doubt people want SA3 just for the Chao Gardens.

Edited September 30, 2011 by T-Man

[Kuzu]

While I do agree its mainly blind nostalgia, people probably want a "Sonic Adventure 3" because of:

1. They both had more story and depth to the characters than any previous game, this by no means makes them better, its a just a distinction as I still love Sonic 3 & Knuckles as my favorite Sonic game despite its lack of story depth, I do give the Adventure games props for expanding on the characters.

2. Super Sonic in 3D for the first time was probably the most epic thing you ever saw when you were younger, especially since he was fighting world destroying monsters with epic guitars in the background, let's face it that shit is awesome even if was overused later.

3. They gave us Shadow(And to an extent Rouge), who, don't lie, was probably everyone's favorite character growing up.

Though none of these justify why a third game should be made, as their just distinctions and nothing else, they speak nothing of the quality of the game and what would the game build on.

[ThatGuyJay]

Can people just want it for the sake of the (Sonic's) gameplay? Kind of like how people wanted Sonic 4 for the gameplay. Is it really that hard to believe? Regardless, I've gotten over seeing the Adventure style come back and is ready to see the Unleashed gameplay to further be improved on.

[Diogenes]

Can people just want it for the sake of the (Sonic's) gameplay? Kind of like how people wanted Sonic 4 for the gameplay. Is it really that hard to believe?

Yeah, because asking for Adventure gameplay really isn't aiming that high. I can't see how people think that is the best that 3D Sonic can be.

[Badnik Mechanic]

And I highly doubt people want SA3 just for the Chao Gardens.

I have seen people on TSS comments actually state that they would probably get Sonic Generations if it had Chao Gardens. Whilst I doubt that this is a real reason for people wanting any Sonic game, I do have to say, if you're after chao gardens on a level which is that high, then you're in the wrong franchise.

Go buy Nintendogs, Kinectimals or EyePet, or if you don't have those consoles, I hear that Dogz and Catz used to be very popular games.

[Kuzu]

Yeah, because asking for Adventure gameplay really isn't aiming that high. I can't see how people think that is the best that 3D Sonic can be.

[Xenos]

Considering what came afterwards, can you really blame them? Adventure was the closest game to the classics in term of quality, it just didn't have a chance to develop and take off.

[Kuzu]

Adventure being the closest in quality isn't saying much at all.

I mean, 2008-Now I'm pretty sure we've surpassed the Adventure games in quality.

[T-Min]

Yes, we've successfully turned a platform game into a racer, we should be proud.

Edited September 30, 2011 by T-Man

[Xenos]

Yes, we've successfully turned a platform game into a racer, we should be proud.

[ThatGuyJay]

I think we all can agree that the Unleashed gameplay is superior now, but there are still people who don't like the Unleashed gameplay. When Unleashed first came out, I didn't like it. At the time, I wouldve rather them go back to Adventure gameplay and improve on that than just giving up on it. I'm just trying to say that not everyone wants Adventure gameplay back because of stupid things like the chao garden and nostalgia, some people have legit reasons for not liking the Unleashed gameplay and would like to see the Adventure gameplay to return improved upon instead of it being continously worse with each release (which happened with Heroes-S06).

Edited September 30, 2011 by ThatGuy

[Riverstone]

While i like the unleashed formula to some degree, i still believe that the adventure one was far better. I can see how people think it's similar to a racer. And I HATE with a passion that 3D sonic relies on going in 2D to do proper platforming.

Here's my quick review on sonics moves in the unleased formula (Xenos brought these up).

Air Boost: What is this? just a variation of boosting?

Slide: still going 300mm an hour on a straight path. Not exactly platforming

Quick-Step: still going 300mm an hour on a straight path. Not exactly platforming

Spin Dash Drift: Pretty cool, but essentially still going 300mm an hour on a straight path. Not exactly platforming

Jump platform to platform: The only platforming we get really. And it still feels like filler. Its obvious the mechanics weren't designed with this in mind as a priority. Hopefully improved upon in generations.

Homing attack: Good, but why are homing targets always in 3s? Makes it seem like a chore in the more recent games.

Pole Swing: This is good. Only really can use this like, 3 times in the whole game though.

Stomp: cool move. dig it.

My problem is that platforming feels like a chore. Sonic is just way too fast now to do proper platforming. The so called 'platforming' you talk about is really just a rendition of QTE. Sonic runs, you press these buttons to keep going.

Here's my example of a sonic unleased formula level:

- Run/boost (including QTE actions)

- stop. homing attack

- Run/boost(including QTE actions)

- stop. platforms time.

- Run/boost (including QTE actions)

- stop. pole swing...

- but now Back to Run/boost! (including QTE actions)

Who gives a fuck what level we're in, or whos chasing us. it'll always be a QTE event when you're going THAT fast.

Sonic adventure formula. Every step was exciting. Every corner, every box you jump on or roll into, every time you jump over a platform that was falling. Hell, even running on the side of a half pipe was exhilarating. Why? Because you have complete control over sonic.

Fuck QTE gameplay, and sonic is too fast. That is all

[Xenos]

While i like the unleashed formula to some degree, i still believe that the adventure one was far better. I can see how people think it's similar to a racer. And I HATE with a passion that 3D sonic relies on going in 2D to do proper platforming.

Here's my quick review on sonics moves in the unleased formula (Xenos brought these up).

Air Boost: What is this? just a variation of boosting?

Slide: still going 300mm an hour on a straight path. Not exactly platforming

Quick-Step: still going 300mm an hour on a straight path. Not exactly platforming

Spin Dash Drift: Pretty cool, but essentially still going 300mm an hour on a straight path. Not exactly platforming

Jump platform to platform: The only platforming we get really. And it still feels like filler. Its obvious the mechanics weren't designed with this in mind as a priority. Hopefully improved upon in generations.

Homing attack: Good, but why are homing targets always in 3s? Makes it seem like a chore in the more recent games.

Pole Swing: This is good. Only really can use this like, 3 times in the whole game though.

Stomp: cool move. dig it.

My problem is that platforming feels like a chore. Sonic is just way too fast now to do proper platforming. The so called 'platforming' you talk about is really just a rendition of QTE. Sonic runs, you press these buttons to keep going.

Here's my example of a sonic unleased formula level:

- Run/boost (including QTE actions)

- stop. homing attack

- Run/boost(including QTE actions)

- stop. platforms time.

- Run/boost (including QTE actions)

- stop. pole swing...

- but now Back to Run/boost! (including QTE actions)

Who gives a fuck what level we're in, or whos chasing us. it'll always be a QTE event when you're going THAT fast.

Sonic adventure formula. Every step was exciting. Every corner, every box you jump on or roll into, every time you jump over a platform that was falling. Hell, even running on the side of a half pipe was exhilarating. Why? Because you have complete control over sonic.

Fuck QTE gameplay, and sonic is too fast. That is all

[Chibinuva]

I have seen people on TSS comments actually state that they would probably get Sonic Generations if it had Chao Gardens. Whilst I doubt that this is a real reason for people wanting any Sonic game, I do have to say, if you're after chao gardens on a level which is that high, then you're in the wrong franchise.

Go buy Nintendogs, Kinectimals or EyePet, or if you don't have those consoles, I hear that Dogz and Catz used to be very popular games.

Yeah, Chaos are way more adorable. It's actually one of the reasons I'm getting SA2:B. (that and everyone suggested it over SA:DX and Colors.) But anyways, even if they do want it solely for the Chao Gardens, there's still the game itself to play. The point is, not only are you getting an awesome game, but you have a really fun little bonus included (aside from DLC, but that's not even the actual stage, just a pinball machine.) I personally love the Chao Garden, and I would really like Generations to come with it. (especially if it's ported to Wii U later, with the Wii U version being compatible with the DS version ala the Chao Garden of GC SA1/2 being compatible with GBA's SAv1/2/3.) Anyways, I've played SA1, and it's a rather enjoyable experience. Running from whales, homing attacking enemies, spindashing enemies, taking in the beauty of the scenery, and the chao gardens of course. It was overall fun, and on top of that, had some exploring in it (hence the "adventure") as well as having fleshed-out, full 3D levels, not ones either 2D or psuedo 3D where it's basically just a hallway (not trying to bash on Unleashed, as I fully enjoyed both the day and nighttime stages.)

[Marcello]

I think we all can agree that the Unleashed gameplay is superior now, but there are still people who don't like the Unleashed gameplay.

No, I don't think I can.

[Milo]

No, I don't think I can.

I concur. City Escape is the only modern Sonic level I've seen so far in Generations that actually featured wide areas available for 3D platforming (i.e. doing more than hopping over platforms) in level design, albeit that platforming section was very short. All three zones/levels still had boost hallways in level design (City Escape did have wider paths though). And the only 3D platforming (the little there was in those zones) I recall in those two levels was simply hitting springs or hopping over a small flight of stairs in order to get to a higher platform.

Personally I'd like to see a combination of both the Adventure and Unleashed gameplay. Best of both worlds. That's all I'm asking for, TBH.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Ananze

[Pawn]

The way I see it, Sonic Adventure 2 was the last game to be so well-received and for its time was a high quality title. The games following it really had ample time to improve upon the formula but did not. Alternative/gimmicky gameplay should have been phased out. SA2 took out the slower gameplay and less important characters of the first Adventure (I'm not saying Amy and Big aren't important, but they weren't as involved in the central story), so it would stand to reason that the next game concentrated on the elements people enjoyed the most of the two. Instead we ended up with badly executed gameplay involving four sets of three characters, an unfinished game and a return (and significant increase) of tiresome alternative gameplay in the form of the Werehog. Yeah Colours is an improvement, but it was short and mostly 2D platforming (which could be pretty dull at times).

The daytime stages in Unleashed themselves have aged quickly in my opinion. They were a mind-blowing experience the first time around but with the heavy reliance on reused assets (for the extra acts), boosting and trial and error gameplay, it's lost much of the initial appeal.

This is why I think SA3 is requested so much. I see a lot of people saying that SA2 is overrated but in my experience I hear this more than I do any praise. I'm not on any other forums though, neither do I check the comments sections on Youtube. If these people really just want Chao gardens, slow alternative gameplay and the like, then these people really are clinging to their nostalgia.

That all being said, Generations looks to finally return the franchise to a robust, high quality experience again, without the extra padding that didn't work well in the Adventures.

EDIT: Not that I think the 3D levels are perfect in Generations of course. Like a lot of people I ideally want something closer to Classic gameplay.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Lungo

[ArtFenix]

what he said...

I sooooo agree with this! Sure, Generations looks awesome, but it's still not exactly a 3D speedy platformer Sonic used to be. The dude is right about the strong emphasis on speed with linear levels. City escape in SG has enough "wide open" areas? Gimme a break! They are not so open compared to any stage from Sonic adventure and there are still a LOT of 2D. 3D segments almost always all about going forward and so-called alternate paths are just branches of the main one, not completely alternate if you know what I'm talking about.

Again, I don't want to say Generations is bad. It looks very cool but you guys should understand adventure fans too. We want 3D gameplay, not a game with 3D landscapes, 3D linear paths with SOME kinda alternate routes and a lot of 2D parts. We want a proper 3D gameplay like in the adventures. 2D is cool and stuff but now there's just too much of it (Colors, I'm talking about you!). Unleashed formula is not so bad, but it's pretty repetitive and I for one think that the adventure formula is indeed superior.

I've said that many times and I'll say it again: make a game with linear speedy 3D paths like in SU/SC/SG with a lot of wide open areas like in Sonic adventure with PROPER 3D platforming. Make as few 2D segments as possible or even remove them and you've got a perfect 3D Sonic game gameplay wise.

Edited September 30, 2011 by ArtFenix

[lounge]

Sonic's gameplay from SA2 needs to be brought back and expanded on. I like to be in actual control of my game characters. When people say they want SA3, that doesn't mean they want treasure hunting, mechs or shooting. Honestly the only thing that's making Generations look remotely appealing to me is the nostalgia from all the levels, and that they're bringing back the main cast in the story (hopefully). But what good does that do when I hate the Unleashed gameplay. And 70% of the game is in 2D again just like colors.

[Kuzu]

Ugh, don't start. The last thing we need in this thread is THIS debate. :/

I wasn't the one who said anything about Unleashed.

Oh please, don't give me that bullshit.

Its only bullshit to you because you don't agree with me. You don't see me calling your argument bullshit.

I'm getting tired of this dead argument that just because the Modern gameplay is linear that it's somehow a racer or some "Cheap Thrill-Ride". Generations already throws this argument in the shitter when City Escape was revealed. With it's more open areas, and the fact you can't just boost forward to complete the stage unless you want to find the quickest way to die. And that isn't counting the other stages that are linear, but with alternate paths to keep it fresh. (Chemical Plant Modern)

Ok, City Escape is one stage, one stage doesn't make the game instantly better, especially since City Escape only has that one area of openness before its right back to its shallow 2D platforming. Chemical Plant is even worse, I saw the entire playthrough in that leak from a few days ago, the 3D sections were completely straight lines, alt. paths or not; I don't care what anyone says, you should not be going in a straight line for half of a level.

I admit City Escape is better than what came before, but that doesn't mean its perfect, there's still room for much improvement.

Calling it Racer is outright lies out of your ass. I didn't know a racer...

How many platform games you know that give you a drifting and a nitro boosting maneuver? Answer: Not as much as in racing games.

Needed you to Boost sparingly, Air Boost, Slide, Quick-Step, Spin Dash Drift, Jump platform to platform, Homing Attack, Pole Swing, Stomp, Press Switches, and do all this shit at 300 Miles Per Hour.

Needing to use the boost sparingly doesn't mean the shitty level design is gone its just hidden behind shallow 2D platforming, I don't care what anyone says, jumping on floating platforms in the air in a Sonic game, does not count as platforming, and if it is it sure as hell is boring.

The Adventure games, in my opinion, won't compare to Generations Modern Stages in any way, just a hunch, though.

You're overly optimistic, I understand Generations looks awesome, because it does, but think about what was sacrificed to get to this point? We've lost crucial moves and level design that made Sonic who he is in favor of pretty much ditching the platforming aspect altogether and mostly focusing on just speed and nothing else, you can't focus exclusively on one aspect of Sonic and expect it to do good.

You seriously don't believe that if ST actually tried to build off of what they did in Sa1 over the years, that Sonic would less popular than he is now?

[sonfan1984]

Sonic's gameplay from SA2 needs to be brought back and expanded on. I like to be in actual control of my game characters. When people say they want SA3, that doesn't mean they want treasure hunting, mechs or shooting. Honestly the only thing that's making Generations look remotely appealing to me is the nostalgia from all the levels, and that they're bringing back the main cast in the story (hopefully). But what good does that do when I hate the Unleashed gameplay. And 70% of the game is in 2D again just like colors.

I'm guessing you're not looking forward to playing as Classic Sonic either?

If Sonic's gameplay from the Sonic Adventure games is what people really want (minus the treasure hunting, mechs shooting, fishing, etc) then Sega could just bring that gameplay style back but it don't have to be called SA3 to do that.

Edited September 30, 2011 by sonfan1984

[segasage]

well as most people are saying here on this thread, the sonic adventure games were the best 3d sonic games Sega ever manufactured. most of the fans who want decent game play would agree on this after playing sonic 2006 or shadow the hedgehog( unleashed was OK,sonic colors was great and generations looks like it will be good).