Why do people want Sonic Adventure 3?

[sonfan1984]

From Heroes-06 dude, getting rid of that.

[eXtaticus]

^ I stand by my words, however:

From Heroes-06 dude, getting rid of that.

Edited September 30, 2011 by eXtaticus

[Komodin]

As far as rebooting anything in this series is concerned, unless one is planning on retconning reality along with it, it won't really do much good. If anything, simply making better games woutd be far more effective.

[Soniman]

From Heroes-06 dude, getting rid of that.

[Ekaje]

Considering that the series continuity consists of a passing reference once in a while, and seeing how SEGA probably isn't going to try another plot based sequel anytime soon after the last attempt (Shadow), there's really nothing that would be gained from retconning Sonic games.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Ekaje

[Diogenes]

If you want to go through the nightmare of figuring out Shadow's past again, be my guest

Not that I support a reboot, but honestly that could only turn out better than what we got.

[Lightspines]

I don't care about the title, but I'd love to see Sonic Team return to that gameplay style for atleast one more game. It's so much better than the Unleashed style, in my opinion.

[Soniman]

Not that I support a reboot, but honestly that could only turn out better than what we got.

[Eastwood]

Well...... I figured that this was gonna come up again.

Okay if people are still wondering why folks still want SA3 some of the reasons are because they want:

1.A FULL 3D GAME. - people want to be able to explore and not have 2D limiting where you can go.

2.Better Storyline and Characterization - quality of Story and Character development have dropped since the Adventure Series.

3.MORE Playable Characters - a lot of people are tired of solo sonic

4.Chao gardens; and Collectibles to be used in and outside of the game.

I also think people want a decent multiplayer mode with some alternate missions or gameplay options on the side.

And more "Crush 40"

Now what I dont understand is why people think that these things are so horrible.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Eastwood

[Badnik Mechanic]

The following is why I dislike this topic...

1.A FULL 3D GAME. - people want to be able to explore and not have to have 2D limiting where you can go.

So those moments in SA 2, SA 1, Heroes, such as speed highway where you're more or less tied to a single track don't count against the full 3D freedom philosophy?

And I guess the hub worlds in Sonic Unleashed don't count towards that philosophy? Neither do the open spaces where you have to explore when you're there werehog?

2.Better Storyline and Characterization - quality of Story and Character development have dropped since the Adventure Series.

Thats highly debatable at the very least and down to personal opinion more than anything else. Theres nothing at all wrong with most of the core story ideas in most Sonic games, the main problem is the choice of dialogue which drives it and who is given the job to drive it, although this has improved greatly with Unleashed through to Colours and generations from whats been shown so far.

3.MORE Playable Characters - a lot of people are tired of solo sonic

Sonic 06 has 3 main characters + ... urm... how many other Amigo characters are in there? That was a game which came out 5 years ago which isn't very long when we're talking about videogame development. Unleashed has 2. Colours has 1... whoa people are tired of playing 1 solo sonic game?

Are their attention spans that bad?

4.Chao gardens; and Collectibles to be used in and outside of the game.

Chao gardens: Go play Kinectimals, you're in the wrong fandom if you want a pet simulator game.

I think, possibly... this is just my opinion on the matter... people play Sonic games because they want to play as someone moving fast and fighting robots. I don't think... when people see an announcement trailer for a new Sonic game, they jump off their sofa and say "OH GOD I HOPE I CAN FEED MY PET ALIEN AN ELEPHANT AND NAME HIM ELVIS!"

Also the very idea of constantly feeding my pet alien thing elephants so it might get enough strength to push a ball faster than someone elses pet alien fills me with about as much joy and charm as a 2 inch beetle covered in mud... standing in a ditch.

Collectibles that can be used in and outside of the game: Again I guess that Sonic 06's items don't count? Also whilst it wasn't specfically collectibles, I guess the upgrades in Sonic unleashed which give you new moves and abilities don't count either?

I also think people want a decent multiplayer mode with some alternate missions or gameplay options on the side.

Those people are easilly ignored.

Now what I dont understand is Why people think that these things are so horrible.

Because everything you suggested has more or less been kept in, the only difference is it's not called Sonic Adventure 3 on the box.

[Diogenes]

Now what I dont understand is why people think that these things are so horrible.

Thing is that none of those things really have any strong connection to the Adventures. You can make a full 3D Sonic game without making it play like Sonic Adventure. Even if you think the plots and characterizations were better in the Adventures, they still weren't great, and there's no reason whatever story they make can't be strapped onto whatever game they make. Multiple playable characters can be done in any game. Chao gardens can be stapled on to any game (though they don't belong. At all.).

If you want those things, ask for them. But why drag the corpse of the Adventures along with it?

[Eastwood]

So those moments in SA 2, SA 1, Heroes, such as speed highway where you're more or less tied to a single track don't count against the full 3D freedom philosophy?

And I guess the hub worlds in Sonic Unleashed don't count towards that philosophy? Neither do the open spaces where you have to explore when you're there werehog?

Funny how you mention a moment in speed highway in comparison to Unleashed forcing you to have 2D in much of the game and Colors being mostly 2D anyway. Also the Hub worlds in unleashed are okay as well as the werehog but that does not make it a FULL 3D game. and you know it.

Thats highly debatable at the very least and down to personal opinion more than anything else. Theres nothing at all wrong with most of the core story ideas in most Sonic games, the main problem is the choice of dialogue which drives it and who is given the job to drive it, although this has improved greatly with Unleashed through to Colours and generations from whats been shown so far.

If its down to personal opinion then a lot of people have that opinion; otherwise the topic of Story wouldn't keep coming up. And the dialouge may have gotten better but it still needs improving and a lot of people view the recent stories and dialog as kind of "kiddy"

Sonic 06 has 3 main characters + ... urm... how many other Amigo characters are in there? That was a game which came out 5 years ago which isn't very long when we're talking about videogame development. Unleashed has 2. Colours has 1... whoa people are tired of playing 1 solo sonic game?

Are their attention spans that bad?

Sonic 06 had three main Characters but the amigo characters were pretty half done in comparison and besides the Adventure games had 6.

Also its been solo sonic since the storybook games and Generations is still solo sonic.

Chao gardens: Go play Kinectimals, you're in the wrong fandom if you want a pet simulator game.

I think, possibly... this is just my opinion on the matter... people play Sonic games because they want to play as someone moving fast and fighting robots. I don't think... when people see an announcement trailer for a new Sonic game, they jump off their sofa and say "OH GOD I HOPE I CAN FEED MY PET ALIEN AN ELEPHANT AND NAME HIM ELVIS!"

Also the very idea of constantly feeding my pet alien thing elephants so it might get enough strength to push a ball faster than someone elses pet alien fills me with about as much joy and charm as a 2 inch beetle covered in mud... standing in a ditch.

Collectibles that can be used in and outside of the game: Again I guess that Sonic 06's items don't count? Also whilst it wasn't specfically collectibles, I guess the upgrades in Sonic unleashed which give you new moves and abilities don't count either?

Okay well if you want platforming go play Mario... - see how crazy that sounds?

What is it with people who think just because its similar to other pet simulators that it doesen't belong?

Sonic 06 was years ago and Unleashed just had upgrades which werent that great - at least for me

Those people are easilly ignored.

So are people who dont.

Thing is that none of those things really have any strong connection to the Adventures. You can make a full 3D Sonic game without making it play like Sonic Adventure. Even if you think the plots and characterizations were better in the Adventures, they still weren't great, and there's no reason whatever story they make can't be strapped onto whatever game they make. Multiple playable characters can be done in any game. Chao gardens can be stapled on to any game (though they don't belong. At all.).

If you want those things, ask for them. But why drag the corpse of the Adventures along with it?

If you dont have a problem with any of those things then just what are you arguing about?

Edited October 1, 2011 by Eastwood

[Badnik Mechanic]

Funny how you mention a moment in speed highway in comparison to Unleashed forcing you to have 2D in much of the game and Colors being mostly 2D anyway.

I've not played colors, hence why it would be daft of me to mention the dynamics of a game I've not played. Why did I mention speed highway? Could it be because we got a trailer for the updated version about a day ago so that stage is more or less fresh in our minds? I could also have mentioned the start of Twinkle Park as Sonic, emerald coast (pretty much the whole stage except the initial beach area). They all lock you into a experience which despite it being 3D offers very little in terms of a 3D explorative nature.

Unleashed does not force you into 2D for the bulk of the game at all, theres only small moments of each stage that switch to that format

Also the Hub worlds in unleashed are okay as well as the werehog but that does not make it a FULL 3D game. and you know it.

Exactly why not? Are we really that petty in this day and age? OH NO! I HAVE TO HAVE A SIDE VIEW FOR A WHOLE 10 SECONDS OF GAMEPLAY! CURSES! WHERE IS MY FULL 3D GAME!

The only difference between the side view and your behind the character view which you seem to be craving is that one locks you into a side, the other locks you from behind, theres very little exploring you can actually do in pretty much all 3D Sonic games since the Dreamcast except for hub worlds.

But as for the whole 10 seconds of a side view... Can't you just... deal with it?

If its down to personal opinion then a lot of people have that opinion; otherwise the topic of Story wouldn't keep coming up. And the dialouge may have gotten better but it still needs improving and a lot of people view the recent stories and dialog as kind of "kiddy"

Yes but it's rather funny how when people moan talk about Sonic Adventure 3, for some reason they refuse to accept any storyline as being good outside of titles which are specifically called Sonic Adventure, hence why I don't think this argument is very important at all.

However if you want to talk about Adventure storyline, how about this for a reason as to why theres no SA 3.

Because SA 1 and 2 and SA3 (Shadows game) more or less finished the Sonic Adventure storyline? Whats the point in going back to it when the story is long over?

Sonic 06 had three main Characters but the amigo characters were pretty half done in comparison and besides the Adventure games had 6.

lol as apposed to what? Sonic adventure has Sonic Tails and maybe at a stretch Amy who have lots of long stages which take time to beat. And the only reason Amy is in there is because she moves so slowly that it takes time to beat a level.

Gamma? Big? Knuckles? Their campaigns are hardly long at all, and their stages are usually cut to barely a quarter of Sonic's stage length.

Hero Vs Dark in SA 2? It's pretty much the same stages for some characters only with a different item to get at the end.

But no, Sonic 06's multiple character gameplay doesn't count... the reason you give is... cos...

Also its been solo sonic since the storybook games and Generations is still solo sonic.

So we're not counting Sonic 06 or Unleashed then? Or the many handheld titles? Or would they ruin this part of your argument too much... no wait let me guess... they're not canon so they don't count either right.

Okay well if you want platforming go play Mario... - see how crazy that sounds?

Yeah... probably because Sonic is a speedy game as apposed to Mario which is about as slow as you can get?

Mind you it doesn't sound as crazy as wanting to play a Sonic game because it has a pet simulator in it.

What is it with people who think just because its similar to other pet simulators that it doesen't belong?

Because we want to play Sonic games... not pet simulators.

Sonic 06 was years ago and Unleashed just had upgrades which werent that great - at least for me

Then thats your problem and not a valid complaint.

So are people who dont.

Not really, because they're usually the first ones to admit that other than having the characters fight each other, theres virtually 0 multiplayer avenues left for Sonic which will actually work or be fun.

Edit: Why am I posting in an SA3 topic again... it's the same argument over and over again.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Hogfather

[Diogenes]

Okay well if you want platforming go play Mario... - see how crazy that sounds?

It does sound pretty crazy--because Sonic is a platformer. Sonic is not a pet sim game, which is why you shouldn't be looking for that in there.

If you dont have a problem with any of those things then just what are you arguing about?

Well, I do have a problem with the chao gardens. That shit has no place in Sonic games. But that aside, my point is, why do you have to drag along the rest of the Adventure style? You could get all those things out of a different game, one that's not weighed down by the Adventure style's faults. Ask for the things you want, not some vague mixed-bag style

[Xenos]

Ugh, I just did this on the sega forums, and now I gotta do it here too? Better finish what I started.

No we want to go back to Adventure style because it never had a chance to take off, and even as flawed as it was, was still the closest experience to the 2D games that the 3D games ever had, that's why we want it.

What did it do, exactly to make it the closest experience anyway? Adventure 2 was almost as linear as Unleashed, and rolling surely wasn't very important. Adventure 1, while rolling could be used, wasn't very important, not to mention speed was very easy to gain on your own by spamdash. And I've already said it's stages were a bit linear to the point of usually being only one or 2 main paths.

Because Adventure was actually pretty damn close to the genesis games in terms of level design, with Unleashed it was fun at first I admit, but three games with the same style and barely anything has improved level design wise; You're still moving on incredibly linear stages with little to do rather than having Platforming with speed incorporated into its design.

Pretty damn close? I'm calling fowl. The Classics required rolling and use of physics and momentum, and as I've said before, there were barely any alternate routes, it sounds like your overestimating to me.

No I'm saying that its the closest to what Sonic is actually about and I would like to see it expanded upon.

Sonic is actually about...Speed Platforming. Which Unleashed is doing?

Because Generations is three years after Unleashed came out and there's been little improvement to it, we have still have bland 3D sections, boring 2D platforming and a game breaking boost. Frankly its run its course and I would like see something different.

You act like you've played all of Generations fully, and it didn't take 3 Years just for the Classic Games to be perfected, so this point is sort of moot.

A Sonic game to me is a platforming game with speed incorporated and level design to accommodate both. Unleashed is a platform game trying to be a racing game with very little platforming thrown in between, platforming which breaks the flow entirely.

But Speed and Platforming can't really be together.

You want to talk about breaking the flow?

How about in Adventure 1 where you get an extremely slow platforming area in Ice Cap with boring, boring music. (IMO) and afterwards, you end up in a fast-paced snowboarding section with loud in your face music. That's a little jarring to me.

And honestly, I see no where in Generations where the platforming is even that slow, the flow is still there slightly, it's not even completely broken. You can transition to open areas without a hitch. So...I'm not seeing where you're coming from. And who the hell ar eyou for saying it's run it's course? We weren't saying this with the Classics. Someone is losing patience with the Unleashed Formula because of your own dislike of it? I've said this before.

No I'm saying the proper use of your speed in the platforming segments are what make a Sonic game, Unleashed doesn't do that, its nothing but running forward with few obstacles thrown your way. I admit the Classics had their moments of slow, boring platforming, but they're still better than Unleashed's platforming segments. Let's look at good ole Marble Zone shall we?

Now compare this to Unleashed's sections of platforming which are mostly floating blocks and nothing else.

Marble Zone had worse, slower platforming. So you kind of shot yourself in the foot there, Because Unleashed levels actually had fast sections in between at least, you should've used a better example.

They also had you rolling off of hills, and gaining speed for loops.

Because Unleashed's levels are mostly running forward and nothing else.

Well you like simplifying to the extreme.

Running forward and dodging obstacles at high speeds, while also not falling, messing up, or slowing down. It's certainly more to keep track of compared to the Classics in terms of trying to get the best score possible.

And you say that because we haven't played Generations 3D areas, which we haven't explored yet. So I'm waiting to see who proves who wrong.

If you're not on a completely flat portion of a level, what's the point of the boost? If that's the case it may as well be gone altogether.

The point of the Boost is to give you Super Sonic speed at the palm of your hands, the air boost can help with quicker platforming and even finding shortcuts.

.

The original and Classic chemical plant had launch pads, the yellow blocks for platforming, the traveling tubes and the moving platforms above the water...all of those are missing from the Modern version, I admit Chemical Plant is a fast paced stage, but it it had a lot more than just straight lines and speed boosters.

launch pads? That's in Modern and Classic Chemical Plant, which serves the same purpose. Traveling tubes are completely automated, and just take you to the next area without choice. Moving Platforms above the water? In Modern Chemical Plant, after the freefall segment, you can jump up onto a rail, or miss it, and fall into water platforming. So nothing except automated tubes is missing. It was straight lines, loops, and speed boosters and alternate paths, I'm standing by my point.

I did say City Escape is better than anything before it, did I not?

Okay then, answer me why the hell can't they improve the Unleashed formula when Generations did it better than Adventure 2?

The Adventure game are one thing, but did you just call the Classic games, linear? are you that ignorant?

Does this look linear in the slightest?

Holy Shit. I didn't say they were completely linear, I was saying there are notable examples of linearity in the Classics, and boring platforming (Chem. plant and H. Top.) So thats been a part of the series for a while.

So yeah what? I never said Adventure was perfect, I said it could be improved, all I was saying it controls more like a Classic game than Unleashed ever did.

And we haven't played Generations, again. We don't know how it plays, feels, or how good it really is. We can't watch a video and instantly know everything and anything about the stage. And also..

"I never said The Unleashed Formula was perfect, I said it could be improved, all I'm saying is it's only been in 3 fucking games and we're already trying to push it out."

You want a cookie?

I'm gonna just say you had no way to counter this, but what I meant from that is it's proof that nothing Adventure did would outdo anything the Unleashed Formula could do, if we were a bit more goddamn patient.

BEcause floating platforms above a bottomless pit are not the way Sonic games should work, that type of platforming is so damn basic it should be illegal, no platform game nowadays has just floating platforms and call it day, and neither should Sonic.

So I guess, Flying Battery, Sky Deck, Final Egg, etc. don't have floating platforms above bottomless pits at certain sections?

Sonic games are speed and fucking platforming. Simple. Nobody said they had to be together every single second.

And it isn't just floating platforms, Generations Green Hill has shitloads more.

2 Branching paths, that flow next to each other, another alternate path wher eyou must stomp under the bridge, using your reflexes to slide and jump over obstacles, attacking enemies in chains and getting to the fastest route, boosting as well as you can to get a good Time Bonus, etc.

Nothing shown has made me believe it is possible, this is the third game with this style and almost nothing has improved; We still have straight lines instead of actual 3D platforming, The boost is still an overpowered move that robs you of your control(which is annying because it worked so much better in Colors), and the platforming that is there is shallow and it breaks the flow of the game.

The Third Game won't be enough, I'd bet.

The Classics took much longer than 3 Years and 3 games.

Sonic 1, Sonic CD, Sonic 2, Sonic 3, Sonic & Knuckles, Sonic 3 & Knuckles, etc.

Each had problems and could have a few improvements, but over the years, they got to near perfection and it didn't take 3. Why are we rushing this certain Formula (Unleashed) again?

Adventure actually attempts to blend the two together, and while it didn't do it as well as the Classics, it didn't really get a chance to develop because it was axed as quickly as it came, if we actually expanded and build on that, I'm pretty sure a much better game than Generations would be born.

Not really.

When you were running fast in Emerald Coast, it was either automated or a simple path to take, the platforming isn't as fast as you believe, really. The Classics didn't blend the two together either, because you really can't do that.

I don't under stand your wording here. You keep talking about how The Adventure Formula was unfairly axed too fast, and it should be revived because it didn't get it's chance to shine.

WELL DAMN. I could say the same thing! You want to unfairly axe the Unleashed Formula when we've only had 3 games in 3 Years, and it's actually being expanded upon much better, and much faster and you still want to kill it because you feel like it isn't good enough.

That is the biggest....contradiction I've ever seen.

And I just realized how much like Diogenes I sound, irony thy name is Shadic.

Well, both of you have the tendency of trying to axe everything the Unleashed Formula has brought upon, while not giving it a chance in the slightest when we've-...

I'll stop there. I'm already coming off as an ass.

[Place]

The Adventure games and their spinoffs (06, Heroes, Shadow) were story-driven. They each gave different, sometimes confusing, answers for the events occurring within the continuity.

The question now is: Where do we go from there?

06 pretty much did everything that could have possibly extended the Adventure continuity, including character depth and interaction, new characters, and more shipping fuel that for some of us sane folk was too much to bear. How can you renew this concept another time over? People just can't accept the fact that '06 IS Sonic Adventure 3. However, because Sega knew that the game that wasn't at all up to par with the other Adventure titles, (and that fans would have probably been all OMG THIS IS A DISGRACE TO THE ADVENTURE SAGA SHAME ON SEGA) the game was quickly renamed to avoid such fanrage.

Just my two cents. Sorry if it comes off as confusing.

Edited October 1, 2011 by The Place-Rocker

[Nepenthe]

They renamed the game because the title "Sonic Adventure" was a more sacred cow than that of the entire franchise?

Also, why does a new game's story have to remark on continuity? If we had a new Adventure, why couldn't it have a standalone narrative?

[Chibinuva]

It does sound pretty crazy--because Sonic is a platformer. Sonic is not a pet sim game, which is why you shouldn't be looking for that in there.

Well, I do have a problem with the chao gardens. That shit has no place in Sonic games. But that aside, my point is, why do you have to drag along the rest of the Adventure style? You could get all those things out of a different game, one that's not weighed down by the Adventure style's faults. Ask for the things you want, not some vague mixed-bag style

[Eastwood]

I've not played colors, hence why it would be daft of me to mention the dynamics of a game I've not played. Why did I mention speed highway? Could it be because we got a trailer for the updated version about a day ago so that stage is more or less fresh in our minds? I could also have mentioned the start of Twinkle Park as Sonic, emerald coast (pretty much the whole stage except the initial beach area). They all lock you into a experience which despite it being 3D offers very little in terms of a 3D explorative nature.

Unleashed does not force you into 2D for the bulk of the game at all, theres only small moments of each stage that switch to that format

Edited October 1, 2011 by Eastwood

[lounge]

06 pretty much did everything that could have possibly extended the Adventure continuity, including character depth and interaction, new characters, and more shipping fuel that for some of us sane folk was too much to bear. How can you renew this concept another time over?

[Eastwood]

It does sound pretty crazy--because Sonic is a platformer. Sonic is not a pet sim game, which is why you shouldn't be looking for that in there.

Well, I do have a problem with the chao gardens. That shit has no place in Sonic games. But that aside, my point is, why do you have to drag along the rest of the Adventure style? You could get all those things out of a different game, one that's not weighed down by the Adventure style's faults. Ask for the things you want, not some vague mixed-bag style

Sonic is known for many things not just platforming.

Nobody is asking for the adventure styles few faults to come along. They would rather the game build on what it had and evolve.

What faults exactly are you talking about anyway?

[Lightspines]

Sonic Adventure 1 & 2

[Kuzu]

Oh for the love of god, why did someone have to bump this?

Xenos I'll respond to you before the days out.

[Eastwood]

Sonic Adventure 1 & 2

LOL!!!

[sonfan1984]

Sonic Adventure 1 & 2

...I don't get it...