Sonic the Hedgehog 4

[Rusty Spy]

Frankly I wouldn't mind either way if Tails or Knuckles were in the game, but from a gameplay standpoint, I'd like to see their gameplay fleshed out some more for once. In fact, if they are in, I'd really want to see them playable more than anything to at least give them some use other than nostalgia.

[speedfreak]

I think Tails made the games too easy. The last boss of S&K was a joke with Tails because he could fly. With Sonic you actually had to rely on good timing to avoid getting laser blasted. He also made all the platforming sections too easy because he could just fly right over them.

[Rusty Spy]

I think Tails made the games too easy. The last boss of S&K was a joke with Tails because he could fly. With Sonic you actually had to rely on good timing to avoid getting laser blasted. He also made all the platforming sections too easy because he could just fly right over them.

Well, when your given a character that can FLY in a platforming game, what do you expect?

Edited January 16, 2010 by Black Spy

[Barry the Nomad]

I always viewed Tails as the Easy mode, Knux as Medium and Sonic as Hard. That's funny, considering the default player is always Sonic. But I like my platformers to have a challenge.

[speedfreak]

Well, when your given a character that can FLY in a platforming game, what do you expect?

Don't take offense to it. I was just saying that playing as Tails was like easy mode. He was still fun to play as now and then.

Anyway I just thought of an awesome mini-boss idea. Remember that end stage capsule thing in Flying Battery that was a mini-boss in S&K? Well imagine something like that except it's the Carnival Night barrel from Sonic 3.

Edited January 16, 2010 by speedfreak

[Bubonic Bunny]

Now that we know it will be sonic only I wonder if there will be multiplayer in the game? I honestly don't care if there is or not, who has ever played sonic games for the multiplayer (not counting co-op), although sega did do it well in the genesis era. I doubt that they would do sonic recolors in order to differentiate the players. Maybe if there is one we will see knuckles and tails, but I doubt there will be one >.<

Edited January 16, 2010 by Bubonic Bunny

[Marcello]

I always viewed Tails as the Easy mode, Knux as Medium and Sonic as Hard. That's funny, considering the default player is always Sonic. But I like my platformers to have a challenge.

Lol, you'd have to switch Sonic and Tails for me there. I always thought it was hardest with Tails xD. Sonic is easiest for me..

[speedfreak]

Lol, you'd have to switch Sonic and Tails for me there. I always thought it was hardest with Tails xD. Sonic is easiest for me..

How is that even possible when Tails could do everything Sonic could do plus fly?

Edited January 16, 2010 by speedfreak

[Blue Blood]

I always viewed Tails as the Easy mode, Knux as Medium and Sonic as Hard. That's funny, considering the default player is always Sonic. But I like my platformers to have a challenge.

In S3&K, Knuckles was hard mode. The weaker jump, more difficult bosses and trap riddled routes all make him game harder. And Sandopolis Act 2 as Knuckles is ruthless from the title card. In the Advance games, where there was not differentiation other than abilities, you're pretty much correct though- with Amy being extra hard and Cream extra easy.

EDIT: Tails made the MGZ Act 2 boss very hard, and Knuckles made CNZ Act 2 a cakewalk. Plus Tails had to go without transformation for a fair while.

Aww, I was just saddened by the lack of playable Tails. The fond memories of playing Sonic and Tails co-op with my friends won't be rekindled yet.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Blue Blood

[GameboyHero]

I always viewed Tails as the Easy mode, Knux as Medium and Sonic as Hard. That's funny, considering the default player is always Sonic. But I like my platformers to have a challenge.

Same for me, but switch Knux with Sonic and you get my idea. I found the bosses with Knuckles a bit harder due to his lower jump and the fact they had new abilities to hit you with, but that's just me.

And glad to see things calmed down a bit around here. Reading the Needlemouse thread on NeoGAF is torture on the brain for me. They're more elitist & mindfucking than Retro or TSS can be.

I <3 you guys.

[Marcello]

How is that even possible when Tails could do everything Sonic could do plus fly?

Like Blue Blood said, the MGZ Act 2 boss was really hard with him. The rest I don't know why, I just had a harder time playing as him..

Edited January 16, 2010 by MarcelloF

[Gamerguy21]

Yeah, I've always found Knuckles to be the hardest, Tails the easiest (not including the Marble Garden boss), and Sonic in the middle. That might be why I prefer to play as Sonic.

And glad to see things calmed down a bit around here. Reading the Needlemouse thread on NeoGAF is torture on the brain for me. They're more elitist & mindfucking than Retro or TSS can be.

Agreed. I find it esspecially annyoing that they're making fun of members here (like Aquaslash) for simply not thinking that Sonic-only = instawin.

[Firo]

Yeah, I've always found Knuckles to be the hardest, Tails the easiest (not including the Marble Garden boss), and Sonic in the middle. That might be why I prefer to play as Sonic.

Agreed. I find it esspecially annyoing that they're making fun of members here (like Aquaslash) for simply not thinking that Sonic-only = instawin.

All we need to do is nuke em in the face XP

i would LOVE it if they had a retro Star Light zone, that was by far my fave.

[Badnik Zero]

Anyway I just thought of an awesome mini-boss idea. Remember that end stage capsule thing in Flying Battery that was a mini-boss in S&K? Well imagine something like that except it's the Carnival Night barrel from Sonic 3.

And it only becomes a boss after five minutes of standing there?

[Marcello]

And it only becomes a boss after five minutes of standing there?

After 5 minutes you'd have to click the analog stick/L3 to activate him!

[Tornado]

How hard is it to port a 2d game to the wii. And if its 3d it still is easy i think.

People compare this to unleashed a full 3d game. Both hardwares can handle a 2d/3d sidescrolling experience. Maybe not in HD but they still can.

I know remz has already responded to this, but I'm going to anyways:

A 2D game that pushes hardware to the limits isn't going to be any easier to port to something of considerably lesser power than a 3D game that does the same, and in fact will be harder in a couple notable ways.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Tornado

[-Mark-]

Is there any word on whether there'll be any kind of Wii port/ Wii version at all yet?

I suppose it's still kind of hard for me to get excited about this game at the moment, because I don't really feel like buying a PS3 or 360 for it, and otherwise I won't be able to play it at all. D=

Although that said, I suppose with Sonic 06, the 360 version of Unleashed and this, that might just about come close to justifying the purchase of a 360, especially given how the price had dropped to something relatively cheap now. Even so, something about buying a console for the sake of a couple of games seems a bit... bleh.

[Dreadknux]

Jesus Christ, I saw some of the posts a few pages back and I don't think I want to read any more of what people have written - it really is quite embarrassing. It's just a piece of concept art. An absolutely awesome, rocking piece of concept art that symbolises one aspect of what a lot of people wanted back in a Sonic game ('real badniks'). I honestly see no downside to that. I love the design of the Shellcracker-a-like; I'd like to see more original badniks in the game based on that design style (I wouldn't want a total rehash of classic Sonic game badniks - but then if that comes to pass, I honestly wouldn't complain) but generally, I like what I see and I see no reason why anyone else would disagree.

On the subject of 'wild goose chase' or 'SEGA getting us to run all over the Internuts for a mere piece of concept art', remember that we could have had nothing at all. Do you do everything in life expecting to get something out of it - for personal gain? If so, I worry about you. That, and nothing was really promised if we passed the challenge anyway - merely a 'present' (which was never going to be OMG SCREENSHUTS) and the names of playable characters. We did it. SEGA delivered. Shut up.

About the whole 'only playing as Sonic suxxxxxor' deal; why? What is the point? How many games have we been allowed to play as Tails, Knuckles, Big, Cream, Amy, and Bobo the Clown? Can Sonic have a game to himself - just him versus Eggman with no interruptions from any Werehogs, controversial furry characters, hedgehog recolours or Professor Pickles (urgh)? If you don't like it, wait until the next game. Or at least wait until the game's even out - a trait not many people in this fanbase have, I know, Some of us are as impatient as the blue blur himself, and that leads to unwarranted misjudgement.

At the end of the day, it's about gameplay. It's about playability. Werehog didn't work. Silver didn't work. Shadow didn't work. Sonic Rush X-Button Dashing didn't (really) work. Adventure fields didn't work. Team play didn't work. Swinging swords didn't work. Those who complained about these games before release were somewhat justified, because the formula from past games had proven it to be a colossal/minor fail. It's somewhat churlish to say "Well I'm allowed to complain about Needlemouse - A GAME I'VE NOT EVEN SEEN YET - because everyone complained about Black Knight before release", because we all knew Black Knight was going to be toss. The formula proved as such.

Harking back to the classics, even in terms of hypotheticals, can't be a bad thing, considering this formula has proven to work - nearly twenty years after its release. These games have proven to be timeless. Sonic Unleashed has proven to be somewhat an aged concept a year after its release, and Sonic 06 was old hat six minutes after it hit the shelves. That said, we don't even know to what extent the old 2D classics will influence Needlemouse, so it's a bit premature to even be complaining about that.

Finally, those who are complaining that SEGA has been 'going backwards' and are accusing them of always being twisted to the whim of the fans or whatever the hell that dumb excuse is all about -- go back up two paragraphs and read all the different game elements I listed that didn't end up working. These are all different, unique gameplay angles for Sonic; or otherwise a break from the norm. You think Sonic Team made Silver and his play because the fans wanted it? How about team play in Heroes, anyone ask for that? Shadow's gunplay, I don't remember that being high on anyone's priority. SEGA and Sonic Team have been anything BUT 'going backwards' in the last ten years, always looking for a gameplay mechanic that is different to the usual Sonic stage play. Even Sonic Unleashed dramatically changed how we played Sonic stages!

SEGA makes a public pledge to go back to the original gameplay mechanic of Sonic - the core direction of the series - and modern fans bust a nut because it doesn't feature the experimental gameplay mechanics seen in past 3D/2D titles. It's a ridiculous position to take, especially as, again, we don't know anything about this game and nobody has even played it. Can't everyone just be happy that we're all excited about a new Sonic the Hedgehog game for once, instead of sighing that it's likely to have some silly gameplay mechanic slapped onto it?

Can't we all just get along, children? We're all Sonic fans here.

----

Sorry about that, had to get that out of my system. Forgive me if nobody's really been complaining about this issue, I've just had to lay down the common sense law around here. When people complain about a blog post that should evoke nothing but happy feelings, I start to worry if this fanbase has a collective mental problem.

Basically, tl;dr

• SEGA blog post is awesome; if you disagree you are wrong.
  
• Concept art is awesome; if you disagree you are wrong.
  
• Playing as Sonic is fine by me. Tails and Knuckles'd be fine, but SEGA needs to really refocus here, so I'm happy. Complaining that Silver's not in it is wrong.
  
• If you complain about a game that hasn't been released yet, with not one shred of info released and based on a formula that actually works, you are wrong.
  
• If you complain that I'm telling people they are wrong, you need to get out more <3

EDIT: I'd just like to clarify my stance here. You're well within your right to say you'd prefer this, that or the other or whatever. But when you outright complain that this game doesn't have the specific elements you want, in a game you know nothing about, that's where you start to sound a bit silly.

Er, I may have killed discussion on this topic. ; Sorry about that, don't see me as a downer or anything. Look, a kitty!

OK, there's no kitty. But basically, I have a positive reaction to the recent news, that's what I wanted to get across. So, let's get positive! :3

[Yong]

Is there any word on whether there'll be any kind of Wii port/ Wii version at all yet?

I'm not even sure it was confirmed if it was a DLC title. Teaser certainly doesn't say anything.

[Bubonic Bunny]

I'm not even sure it was confirmed if it was a DLC title. Teaser certainly doesn't say anything.

it was confirmed, and even before that heavily foreshadowed in sega interviews

[Agent York]

Jesus Christ, I saw some of the posts a few pages back and I don't think I want to read any more of what people have written - it really is quite embarrassing. It's just a piece of concept art. An absolutely awesome, rocking piece of concept art that symbolises one aspect of what a lot of people wanted back in a Sonic game ('real badniks'). I honestly see no downside to that. I love the design of the Shellcracker-a-like; I'd like to see more original badniks in the game based on that design style (I wouldn't want a total rehash of classic Sonic game badniks - but then if that comes to pass, I honestly wouldn't complain) but generally, I like what I see and I see no reason why anyone else would disagree.

On the subject of 'wild goose chase' or 'SEGA getting us to run all over the Internuts for a mere piece of concept art', remember that we could have had nothing at all. Do you do everything in life expecting to get something out of it - for personal gain? If so, I worry about you. That, and nothing was really promised if we passed the challenge anyway - merely a 'present' (which was never going to be OMG SCREENSHUTS) and the names of playable characters. We did it. SEGA delivered. Shut up.

About the whole 'only playing as Sonic suxxxxxor' deal; why? What is the point? How many games have we been allowed to play as Tails, Knuckles, Big, Cream, Amy, and Bobo the Clown? Can Sonic have a game to himself - just him versus Eggman with no interruptions from any Werehogs, controversial furry characters, hedgehog recolours or Professor Pickles (urgh)? If you don't like it, wait until the next game. Or at least wait until the game's even out - a trait not many people in this fanbase have, I know, Some of us are as impatient as the blue blur himself, and that leads to unwarranted misjudgement.

At the end of the day, it's about gameplay. It's about playability. Werehog didn't work. Silver didn't work. Shadow didn't work. Sonic Rush X-Button Dashing didn't (really) work. Adventure fields didn't work. Team play didn't work. Swinging swords didn't work. Those who complained about these games before release were somewhat justified, because the formula from past games had proven it to be a colossal/minor fail. It's somewhat churlish to say "Well I'm allowed to complain about Needlemouse - A GAME I'VE NOT EVEN SEEN YET - because everyone complained about Black Knight before release", because we all knew Black Knight was going to be toss. The formula proved as such.

Harking back to the classics, even in terms of hypotheticals, can't be a bad thing, considering this formula has proven to work - nearly twenty years after its release. These games have proven to be timeless. Sonic Unleashed has proven to be somewhat an aged concept a year after its release, and Sonic 06 was old hat six minutes after it hit the shelves. That said, we don't even know to what extent the old 2D classics will influence Needlemouse, so it's a bit premature to even be complaining about that.

Finally, those who are complaining that SEGA has been 'going backwards' and are accusing them of always being twisted to the whim of the fans or whatever the hell that dumb excuse is all about -- go back up two paragraphs and read all the different game elements I listed that didn't end up working. These are all different, unique gameplay angles for Sonic; or otherwise a break from the norm. You think Sonic Team made Silver and his play because the fans wanted it? How about team play in Heroes, anyone ask for that? Shadow's gunplay, I don't remember that being high on anyone's priority. SEGA and Sonic Team have been anything BUT 'going backwards' in the last ten years, always looking for a gameplay mechanic that is different to the usual Sonic stage play. Even Sonic Unleashed dramatically changed how we played Sonic stages!

SEGA makes a public pledge to go back to the original gameplay mechanic of Sonic - the core direction of the series - and modern fans bust a nut because it doesn't feature the experimental gameplay mechanics seen in past 3D/2D titles. It's a ridiculous position to take, especially as, again, we don't know anything about this game and nobody has even played it. Can't everyone just be happy that we're all excited about a new Sonic the Hedgehog game for once, instead of sighing that it's likely to have some silly gameplay mechanic slapped onto it?

Can't we all just get along, children? We're all Sonic fans here.

----

Sorry about that, had to get that out of my system. Forgive me if nobody's really been complaining about this issue, I've just had to lay down the common sense law around here. When people complain about a blog post that should evoke nothing but happy feelings, I start to worry if this fanbase has a collective mental problem.

Basically, tl;dr

• SEGA blog post is awesome; if you disagree you are wrong.
  
• Concept art is awesome; if you disagree you are wrong.
  
• Playing as Sonic is fine by me. Tails and Knuckles'd be fine, but SEGA needs to really refocus here, so I'm happy. Complaining that Silver's not in it is wrong.
  
• If you complain about a game that hasn't been released yet, with not one shred of info released and based on a formula that actually works, you are wrong.
  
• If you complain that I'm telling people they are wrong, you need to get out more <3

EDIT: I'd just like to clarify my stance here. You're well within your right to say you'd prefer this, that or the other or whatever. But when you outright complain that this game doesn't have the specific elements you want, in a game you know nothing about, that's where you start to sound a bit silly.

Er, I may have killed discussion on this topic. ; Sorry about that, don't see me as a downer or anything. Look, a kitty!

OK, there's no kitty. But basically, I have a positive reaction to the recent news, that's what I wanted to get across. So, let's get positive! :3

I about agree with every word. The thing people must realize is this; This is something the Sonic series needed to do, and a long time coming. I think people need to realize that not every single Sonic game in the fucking universe will be aimed specifically at their own interests, this game has a lot of people excited, and this game so far is doing well to go back to the core without any distractions. To those who want this character or this ability or this mode or this new gameplay thing can wait until another game, I'm sure we will get more of those, but keep an open mind and don't get stuck so far up your arse of what you believe is needed for a success is absolute to everyone.

Keep an open mind and realize not all games will go towards your interests. A lot of people have wanted just this, and I'm not even saying I'm specifically one of those people. Sonic can do as he likes as long as I have fun with it, I had fun the most with Sonic Adventure and Sonic 3 & Knuckles, this may not be what I want 100%, but damn if I'm going to bitch and moan just because this isn't everything I ever wanted, because I can accept I'm not the one making the game and this game is not aimed directly at me, but a long awaiting audience that not only deserves it but at this point and time is the logical way to turn Sonic for at least a game to gain public attention again.

Sonic could of ended up a firefighter, became a magician with Wii controls storybook tales, or drove semitruck or whatever, but this is the most logical way to go and I think SEGA needs to do what they've had coming for a while, re-identifying Sonic so he can be more known to the public audience and get a better basing to come up with GOOD ideas that aren't just random on paper and bring him as a source of quality into the public eye again. To do this, find the core of your hero, and work off his STRENGTHS. Mario, as unholy as some think his name is, tries new things also but the difference is all of these mechanics, waterpacks on his back, flying through space... STILL all direct to the CORE of Mario, they aren't big departures from who he is, but merely add to the experience instead of feeling like a completely different game. Sonic needs to go down THAT route, so that way we don't have such a divide in who likes Sonic and not, and so Sonic doesn't seem to be some fucking Hedgehog who can't decide his career or whatever.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Dusk the Fragile Keeper

[JaidynReiman]

I didn't think we needed a large cast at all. I at least would've like the classic trio to balance things out, though. A couple of additional characters to choose from. Nothin' wrong with that. We've already gotten some recent Sonic-only experiences, too (Sonic Unleashed being the most recent, along with Secret Rings).

However, I definitely prefer Sonic only to having a new character added. I still hope that Tails and Knuckles at least appear in the game as NPC's, though.

Whatever the case... I'm still hoping to see a different upcoming Sonic title, such as the next Sonic Chronicles one. That's currently something I'm looking forward more than this. Unless if this game appears on Wii, and perhaps PS3, I'm never gonna get to play it, anyway (I have no intention of getting a 360, while a Wii, I plan on getting soon... PS3 is something else I'm looking at, but probably later on).

[speedfreak]

I'd be perfectly fine if we only played as Sonic in Sonic games from now on. I'd rather they do spin off games for Sonic's friends ala the Mario series (Think Yoshie's Island, Super Princess Peach, Luigi's Mansion, Donkey Kong Country, Wario Land, etc.). I hated how Sonic felt like just another character instead of the star from Sonic Adventure - Sonic 06.

I guess I wouldn't be against optional characters that basically played like Sonic (like in the classics), but I personally NEVER want to completely change gameplay styles back and forth again. It really kills a games flow IMO.

[Aquaslash]

Ugh, screw Tails and Knuckles. They're about the most overrated pieces of slag in the franchise. They're no better than any other new character, yet they get a pass because they're "classic". If Sonic and Knuckles was called Sonic and Shadow, you'd all be busting a nut over him too! >_>

EDIT: In the meantime, I'll be waiting for the NEXT game after this one. I would like a solid glitch free Shadow experience for once.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Aquaslash

[Bubonic Bunny]

Ugh, screw Tails and Knuckles. They're about the most overrated pieces of slag in the franchise. They're no better than any other new character, yet they get a pass because they're "classic". If Sonic and Knuckles was called Sonic and Shadow, you'd all be busting a nut over him too! >_>

Not at all, they are "classic" but they added to the game and made it better. If you read the thread you started you would see people made plenty of good points to why they're more valuable characters then a lot of the other trash in the franchise. If shadow played exactly like knuckles did in Sonic 3 then of course we would have the same argument, but if he played like sonic I am sure there would be more tails QQ then shadow.