Sonic the Hedgehog 4

[Rusty Spy]

I can't think of a character that's MORE identical to Sonic then Shadow.

Exactly, he pretty much exists so we have a Sonic to play as on the dark side of SA2

Yeah, isn't that the point?

That's like saying I'm gonna write off Tails because he's always around Sonic like he's some kind of sidekick now.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Black Spy

[Gamerguy21]

What's wrong with having a throwback to the classics now and then? Are you afraid that if PN receives favorable reviews, sells really well, and is loved by the fans that Sega will continue to output nothing but classic style Sonic games?

To be honest, I kinda am. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for Needlemouse and hope it does well, but there's a small part inside me that's a bit worried that it could be the end of 3D Sonic. It was there when the game was first announced, died down, and then reared its ugly head again when we got this info.

Hopefully that small part inside me is completely wrong, though.

[Remy]

That's like saying I'm gonna write off Tails because he's always around Sonic like he's some kind of sidekick now.

no, it isn't. how on earth did you come to that conclusion.

[Bubonic Bunny]

To be honest, I kinda am. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for Needlemouse and hope it does well, but there's a small part inside me that's a bit worried that it could be the end of 3D Sonic. It was there when the game was first announced, died down, and then reared its ugly head again when we got this info.

Hopefully that small part inside me is completely wrong, though.

Since needlemouse WILL be DLC it safe to assume that 3d sonic isn't going anywhere soon. Sonic's biggest niche in the modern era is still 3d whether the game is bad or good. The reason for not making needlemouse a hard copy game in the first is because the financial risk is to large. A classic styled sonic game simply can't offer what the 3d titles can now a days, without completely making the game untrue to the originals. The appeal of a game like unleashed is simply more appealing in the eyes of your average consumer. Fast as fuck hedgehog + god of war beat em up action, hell yes? Where as classic sonic seems sluggish and repetitive on the surface compared to everything else we have now.

[Rusty Spy]

What's wrong with having a throwback to the classics now and then? Are you afraid that if PN receives favorable reviews, sells really well, and is loved by the fans that Sega will continue to output nothing but classic style Sonic games?

To be honest, I kinda am. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for Needlemouse and hope it does well, but there's a small part inside me that's a bit worried that it could be the end of 3D Sonic. It was there when the game was first announced, died down, and then reared its ugly head again when we got this info.

Hopefully that small part inside me is completely wrong, though.

This is because if it is successful, it will further solidify the general idea that Sonic can only truly work in 2D and, worst case scenario, a huge uproar of the media erupts demanding that they stop making 3D games altogether, everyone taking this as solid proof that Sonic is a Megaman and should act as such.

No matter what, this game will result in a lose-lose situation in the reaction of some parts of the internet.

If it's good, the above will happen, and if it's bad, it will make Sonic lose even MORE credibility and the idea that "Sonic should just DIE!" might grow rapidly.

Although these results are determined on the amount of extremist there are around the interwebs and whether some media sites have degraded to such.

[Yong]

I've concluded to some extent that PN is no way probably not DLC at all. But that the only reason why SEGA is releasing the trailer on XBL and PSN is most likely for the sole purpose of "teasing" and creating speculation and hype(I can't believe that word has almost been forgotten.)

The teaser isn't available to download on XBLM nor PSN as far as I know.

[Remy]

This is because if it is successful, it will further solidify the general idea that Sonic can only truly work in 2D and, worst case scenario, a huge uproar of the media erupts demanding that they stop making 3D games altogether, everyone taking this as solid proof that Sonic is a Megaman and should act as such.

what a state this deluded fanbase is in whena sonic game succeeding and being a solid title is a bad thing. Fuckin idiots.

[Octarine]

This is because if it is successful, it will further solidify the general idea that Sonic can only truly work in 2D and, worst case scenario, a huge uproar of the media erupts demanding that they stop making 3D games altogether, everyone taking this as solid proof that Sonic is a Megaman and should act as such.

No matter what, this game will result in a lose-lose situation in the reaction of some parts of the internet.

I can't imagine things being much worse than they already are, and I definitely don't see a positive reaction to Needlemouse resulting in a glut of 2D games at the expense of new 3D offerings. 3D games have been selling, so SEGA's going to make more of them. There are audiences that "old-school" just can't reach, and money speaks louder than critics.

The internet as a whole already thinks Sonic is crap and 3D Sonic in particular is crap; nothing's going to really change in that regard. It doesn't matter anyway; when you're trying to please the internet hate machine, something's seriously wrong. A good game is never a bad thing.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Octarine

[Diogenes]

What's wrong with having a throwback to the classics now and then? Are you afraid that if PN receives favorable reviews, sells really well, and is loved by the fans that Sega will continue to output nothing but classic style Sonic games?

Not exactly. It's more that I don't want Sega to fall into the same delusions as some of the fans have. The mindless worship of classic elements regardless of actual quality, the extreme aversion to new ideas...all the stupid ass-backwards things that make me trust the judgment of classic fans as much as the crazy Deviantart fanfiction sort of fans.

I mean, I like the classics, and I think there's a lot to be gained from looking back at those games. But this series can (and should) be more than that.

what a state this deluded fanbase is in whena sonic game succeeding and being a solid title is a bad thing. Fuckin idiots.

Would you like it if ShtH or SatBK or whatever your most hated Sonic game is had been wildly successful and shaped the direction of the series for the next decade or so?

[Remy]

Would you like it if ShtH or SatBK or whatever your most hated Sonic game is had been wildly successful and shaped the direction of the series for the next decade or so?

Differance being those games are shitty, and are unlikely to shape anything.

Bad games don't shape the direction of series for decades.

[Diogenes]

Differance being those games are shitty, and are unlikely to shape anything.

Bad games don't shape the direction of series for decades.

Can you at least try to pay attention to my point, here?

IF they were successful. IF they shaped the series. Surely you can consider a hypothetical, no?

[Remy]

But your point doesn't make sense. you're placing too much on favourites whilst ignoring quality. Consider my point- these are not good games, they are not going to be shaping anything, it's not even worth considering if these games had any major effect on anything because they were shite.

Worrying about a disasterous game coming out and shaping "the future of the series" is a silly thing to do, because as proved by series "reboot" Sonic 06 if it sucks they won't stick to it.

[Diogenes]

Okay then, since you can't seem to comprehend that hypothetical, let's try another...

Imagine if they made a whole new Sonic game. It was a "good game", in fact most people thought it was the greatest game in the series. You, however, think it's shit. It does all the things that you think a Sonic game shouldn't do, that aren't objectively bad.

Would you like if the next few games in the series were all like the game you think is shit?

[Remy]

This is the worst hypothetical line of thinking ever, haha.

If that was the case, I'd go play something else, instead of bitching about it on the internet trying to bend the series to my will. If the game is critically well recived, that generally means it's a good game, if you don't like it, tough.

[Scarlet2106]

At remz:

You're assuming successful automatically equals good.

If it's successful, it's likely going to be for the absolutely stupid focus people have on the amount of characters and how many dimensions it has rather than how good it actually is.

People are going to buy it based solely on the facts that it's 2D and Sonic is the only playable character. This much is obvious looking at the reaction around the Internet. Of course, it's not going to be all of them, but I've seen quite a lot of 'SONIC IS BACK' being bandied about.

Edit: This post does not take into account whatever you just said.

I haven't read it yet.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Arcane

[Remy]

At remz:

You're assuming successful automatically equals good.

Sonic 06 sold a cool million plus, yet was critically panned and the game that came after it was nothing like it. I wonder why.

People are going to buy it based solely on the facts that it's 2D and Sonic is the only playable character. This much is obvious looking at the reaction around the Internet. Of course, it's not going to be all of them, but I've seen quite a lot of 'SONIC IS BACK' being bandied about.

Probably because 3D Sonic in it's previous form was pretty broken, whilst 2D is associated with the height of the character's popularity, quality and success. I understand the WHAT IF IT SUCKS argument, but it's pointless until we see more, and at the moment there's no reason at all to associate 2D gameplay with shittiness, unlike the 3D titles.

[Aquaslash]

at the moment there's no reason at all to associate 2D gameplay with shittiness, unlike the 3D titles.

[Remy]

Oh come on. Rivals isn't even that bad.

If you prefer though, substitue 2D for classic and 3D for new age.

[Aquaslash]

Honestly, I love it to pieces, but everyone else sure doesn't.

[S0NIC-Keyblade 007]

Honestly, I love it to pieces, but everyone else sure doesn't.

You've spoken too soon, personally I liked Sonic Rivals though I didn't like how they never explained how Silver got the ability to timetravel on his own and how it introduced the Eggman Nega plothole. Overall I thought the game had a nice design, the first level had checkered hills which felt nice, and they brought back the robot animals (I don't know if they had that retro feel to them to be considered badniks). I admit though the game was a bit glitchy. As much as I liked this game though I hope PN's production does not go down the path of Rivals. Rivals's level felt too straight forward(but that's understandable since it was a racing game not an adveture game), in the classics you could take alternate paths and get to the end of each stage in many different ways. Exploration should take a big part in PN IMO, it adds on to replay value and makes the game feel less straight forward.

[Rusty Spy]

Only played for a few minutes but it was enough to get me interested and the sequel looks better. You can say I do like Rivals 1

[Tornado]

I understand the WHAT IF IT SUCKS argument, but it's pointless until we see more, and at the moment there's no reason at all to associate 2D gameplay with shittiness, unlike the 3D titles.

[S0NIC-Keyblade 007]

"We'll show that creep the real power of teamwork...again!"

The whole partner gimmick in Advance 3 slowed down the gameplay so much for me. You can't even gain speed without comming to a wall which forces you to partner up with Tails so he can fly over it and then come to another wall which forces you to partner up with Knuckles to knock it down. I'm not saying the game was bad but it would have been so much better if it focussed on speed and not using partners to overcome obstacles.

[Rusty Spy]

I understand the WHAT IF IT SUCKS argument, but it's pointless until we see more, and at the moment there's no reason at all to associate 2D gameplay with shittiness, unlike the 3D titles.

fix'd

The moral of the story is:

There really wasn't a 2D game that was bad enough to make a drastic impact.

As for Advance 3, I think the main problem was that the levels were too convoluted and weren't built to flow well so each level felt very confusing, and each stop felt very abrupt.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Black Spy

[Tornado]

No, I'd say Advance 3 is worse then Genesis. Easily.