Characters you don't want to return

[Splash the Otter]

Seriously, what is Chip even supposed to be? And how did they come up with that?

I'm not sure if he was meant to look like anything in particular, but I always saw him as a fennec.

 

This is completely ridiculous. Metal Sonic was secondary antagonist of Sonic CD and was incredibly vital to the atmosphere of the game. Saying he has never been important is just dishonest and unhelpful.

 

Actually, he and Amy weren't much more than a subplot. The atmosphere was based entirely around the different time periods.

[Furie]

Metal Sonic in CD was bigged up as this amazing boss encounter with dark atmosphere, something that made me jump into a game I don't even really like all that much to see and experience for myself. And what did I get? An easy-ass if fumbly race to the end where he crashed into a wall. Talk about a fucking disappointment. Shadow's initial appearance has more character, atmosphere, meaning and relevance in it than Metal has had in his entire career. I don't give a shit about his crappy game either; I'll take Shadow any day, because I know the character he can be, over Metal Sonic who has yet to prove himself after 20 years of existence.

 

Now this is just silly, come on. That's like me saying:

 

"Well, I was expecing Shadow to be this big villain, but all I got was a fight in the jungle, which I won in 5 seconds, and a fight on a runway, which I won in 1 minute".

 

Metal's role in Sonic CD is huge, if nuanced. You have to destroy all the Metal Sonic capsules, he kindaps the damsel and he's the thematic counterpart to Sonic.

 

If you like Shadow, that's fine. I disagree with him being in future games, but sure.

 

But it's idiotic to claim Metal Sonic has done nothing in his whole career and it's especially stupid to claim he has a minor role in Sonic CD. That's simply not understanding his role in the game.

You know who else was instrumental in the trashing of the franchise? Sonic.

And you can bet your ass, we're going to defend Shadow. If people are going to throw around shitty arguments about why he should be disposed of entirely, then I know I'll be here to burn down those straw-men.

 

None of this is Shadow's fault. Shadow is a fictitious character in a video game series. Everything you're blaming on Shadow, is actually the fault of Sonic Team.

This attitude is fucking stupid.

At one point everyone hated Sonic. Not the extra characters, none of the extra bullshit. There was a point in time when the vast majority of gamers who weren't hardcore Sonic fans, hated Sonic, and everything related to Sonic.

If we applied your bullshit logic to that situation, it would have been better for us to just let Sonic die a shitty death, rather than trying to improve him as a character and the games in general.

 

Metal Sonic was merely Ok in Sonic CD. He's been total shit ever since. Much like Shadow, only he hasn't gotten his own game. Remember his ridiculous character derailment in Heroes where he turned into a bootleg blue Metal Charizard?

 

Don't be silly, no one ever hated Sonic. They, rightly, hated the direction the series was going in. They used to mock the series for how incredibly low it had reached.

 

On the other hand, people resented Shadow, quite rightly, for his character completely derailing the series into all hell with Shadow and Sonic 06. For all intents and purposes, Shadow was the real main character of Sonic 06.

 

He was good in SA2 because he had a purpose and a cleverly written plot, but now the writers have no fucking clue what to do with him.

 

He just needs to die like he was intended to all along. It's just pathetic watching them drag his character, and the tone of the series, into the ground. He doesn't need improving, he needs to go!

Edited September 5, 2013 by Furie

[Nepenthe]

I never claimed Metal Sonic had a minor role in CD. I ultimately claimed that his role was entirely overhyped in terms of enjoyability and impact. The mere fact that people for years have called that boss fight one of the more defining moments of the entire series imbued it with expectations it failed to live up to in later years due to its mechanics, especially so to me as a person that doesn't like Sonic CD even on its own merits as a game, so I couldn't bother giving a shit. It's also an extremely tenuous comparison to Shadow's first(?) boss fight, considering he was lucky enough to appear in a game with more significant characterization than Metal and thus have a greater effect on the story as a whole, which in turn better augments the actual narrative significance of his boss fights and makes me more interested in them by default.

[Furie]

I never claimed Metal Sonic had a minor role in CD. I ultimately claimed that his role was entirely overhyped in terms of enjoyability and impact. The mere fact that people for years have called that boss fight one of the more defining moments of the entire series imbued it with expectations it failed to live up to in later years due to its mechanics, especially so to me as a person that doesn't like Sonic CD even on its own merits as a game, so I couldn't bother giving a shit. It's also an extremely tenuous comparison to Shadow's first(?) boss fight, considering he was lucky enough to appear in a game with more significant characterization than Metal and thus have a greater effect on the story as a whole, which in turn better augments the actual narrative significance of his boss fights and makes me more interested in them by default.

 

There's more to Metal's role than his boss fight though, which I agree with you, is not all great. I still think it's a very novel idea and a great moment in the series history though. It certainly blows the version Sonic 4 had out the water.

 

My point was that Metal still has an actual meaning to be against Sonic, whilst Shadow really doesn't. Shadow has zero relevance to the overreaching plot anymore. He's much like Knuckles actually in that he's only still around because he's popular.

 

But I get the feeling we aren't going to agree and we should probably stop

[Diogenes]

This is completely ridiculous. Metal Sonic was secondary antagonist of Sonic CD and was incredibly vital to the atmosphere of the game. Saying he has never been important is just dishonest and unhelpful.

He kidnapped Amy and you raced him once. That's really not much.

Now this is just silly, come on. That's like me saying:

 

"Well, I was expecing Shadow to be this big villain, but all I got was a fight in the jungle, which I won in 5 seconds, and a fight on a runway, which I won in 1 minute".

Except there are cutscenes in SA2. I don't really like Shadow overall, but he was a solid character in SA2 and he also brought out some of the best of Sonic's characterization.

Metal's role in Sonic CD is huge, if nuanced. You have to destroy all the Metal Sonic capsules, he kindaps the damsel and he's the thematic counterpart to Sonic.

You don't have to destroy the Metal holograms; all that does is make animals dance, it's not even related to getting Good Futures. CD doesn't give us much reason to care about Amy besides the generic "save the damsel" trope. And they don't really do anything with him being Sonic's evil robotic doppelganger; it's not enough to simply put the idea out there, you need to say something with it.

I want to like Metal, I think he's a great concept, but he's been horrendously underutilized. Aside from, like, one line in Heroes, they've never tried to make anything out of his relationship with Sonic, and he's barely ever shown any kind of personality.

[ArtFenix]

As much as I do love Metal Sonic (just as much as I love Shadow, actually^^), I was heavily disappointed by his role in CD. He barely appeared and when he did, his appearance wasn't badass or anything like that. Heck, he WAS badass in Sonic 4 Ep2/Metal much more or even in Heroes!

 

The love for Shadow is based on his appearance AND what his character / what he did in the games.

The love for Metal Sonic is based solely on his appearance. ...and because he appeared in one "clazzik game" xD

Edited September 5, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Furie]

He kidnapped Amy and you raced him once. That's really not much.

Except there are cutscenes in SA2. I don't really like Shadow overall, but he was a solid character in SA2 and he also brought out some of the best of Sonic's characterization.

You don't have to destroy the Metal holograms; all that does is make animals dance, it's not even related to getting Good Futures. CD doesn't give us much reason to care about Amy besides the generic "save the damsel" trope. And they don't really do anything with him being Sonic's evil robotic doppelganger; it's not enough to simply put the idea out there, you need to say something with it.

I want to like Metal, I think he's a great concept, but he's been horrendously underutilized. Aside from, like, one line in Heroes, they've never tried to make anything out of his relationship with Sonic, and he's barely ever shown any kind of personality.

 

My point about the Shadow fights was intentionally ridiculous.

 

As for Metal, by today's standards it is low-key, sure, but we are talking about a game in the early ninties. You can't compare it exactly to how atmosphere and story is used today. The idea of a robot Sonic terrorising the animals and aiding in the industrialisation of the zones is a pretty clever way to put forward themes in a Mega Drive game.

 

For it's time, Metal's story was very engrossing.

[ArtFenix]

For it's time, Metal's story was very engrossing.

For what time? Metal had no story whatsoever in CD. He was just a nemesis of Sonic, that's all he was.

[Furie]

For what time? Metal had no story whatsoever in CD. He was just a nemesis of Sonic, that's all he was.

 

Just because he doesn't get much screen time doesn't mean he doesn't have a story.

 

That's like saying Fortinbras in Hamlet doesn't have a story.

[ArtFenix]

Just because he doesn't get much screen time doesn't mean he doesn't have a story.

 

That's like saying Fortinbras in Hamlet doesn't have a story.

OK, please tell me where you got that he did have a story. Was there a manual or something? Even if there was all I saw in the actual game was a couple of not impressive appearances and a race with an epic fail of a lose.

Knuckles appeared in a game that had no animated intros/endings and had much more of a story and role than Metal did in CD.

 

 

I repeat:

"The love for Metal Sonic is based solely on his appearance. ...and because he appeared in one "clazzik game""

Basically this

Except in the OVA he had some kind of a consciousness and kinda had a character.

Edited September 5, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Nepenthe]

There's more to Metal's role than his boss fight though, which I agree with you, is not all great. I still think it's a very novel idea and a great moment in the series history though. It certainly blows the version Sonic 4 had out the water.

 

My point was that Metal still has an actual meaning to be against Sonic, whilst Shadow really doesn't. Shadow has zero relevance to the overreaching plot anymore. He's much like Knuckles actually in that he's only still around because he's popular.

 

The idea of man vs. machine and all of the implications and morals therein aren't inherently novel, either in general culture or even within the series itself at the time of Metal's creation: that's one of the main themes of Sonic and Eggman fighting each other. We don't need Metal Sonic to hammer this point home further, which in turn lowers his already-dwindling relevance. This means his continued hatred of Sonic doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, barring the fact that he's just been utilized so piss-poorly his entire existence anyway.

 

It also chafes against your insistence that characters need eternal reasons for being to be useful, like a set of Tom and Jerry archetypes who constantly fight. This viewpoint to some degree flies in the face actual development or change that can occur through decent writing- the fundamental concept of character development, something that Metal Sonic sorely needs. Ironically, under your logic, Metal has no more right to be in the series than Shadow does because he's been always been a wasted opportunity and complete drag as a result. Why continue trying with something that's just so damned boring? Get rid of him, I say.

 

But I get the feeling we aren't going to agree and we should probably stop

A conversation need not end in agreement to be interesting or helpful, but if you want to stop, we can.

[Kuzu]

Just because he doesn't get much screen time doesn't mean he doesn't have a story.

 

That's like saying Fortinbras in Hamlet doesn't have a story.

 

Nobody is saying he never had a story or role at all, but that both were extremely minor and lesser in the grand scheme of things. Yea, it was great for its time, but that just really makes Shadow's role in SA2 far more better because it came out in a period when Sonic games told far more complex stories. So how does Metal do more than Shadow when the latter actually has a fleshed out character arc while the other is just a glorified boss fight?

[Furie]

OK, please tell me where you got that he did have a story. Was there a manual or something? Even if there was all I saw in the actual game was a couple of not impressive appearances and a race with an epic fail of a lose.

Knuckles appeared in a game that had no animated intros/endings and had much more of a story and role than Metal did in CD.

 

He was in the manual, but I wasn't referring to that.

 

I meant in the symbolism he represents, the fact he's in the holograms and is explicitly the cause of the animal migration, the fact he steals Amy (a pretty significant role) and that his presence hangs all over the game.

 

That's without even mentioning the fight, which is a significant event and the culmination of the atmosphere.

[Diogenes]

My point about the Shadow fights was intentionally ridiculous.

Doesn't seem like a good way to win an argument.

As for Metal, by today's standards it is low-key, sure, but we are talking about a game in the early ninties.

They did far more with Knuckles in S3&K than Metal in CD, and that was only about a year or so later. I'm not expecting the game to have fully voiced and animated cutscenes or anything, but they could have done more with what they had, and what they did do didn't accomplish much with Metal's character.

The idea of a robot Sonic terrorising the animals and aiding in the industrialisation of the zones is a pretty clever way to put forward themes in a Mega Drive game.

Except we never see this. At best, we might see a hologram of Metal bullying some animals, but we never see him doing it directly, and it doesn't establish him as anything more than a pawn of Eggman.

[Furie]

 

The idea of man vs. machine and all of the implications and morals therein aren't inherently novel, either in general culture or even within the series itself at the time of Metal's creation: that's one of the main themes of Sonic and Eggman fighting each other. We don't need Metal Sonic to hammer this point home further, which in turn lowers his already-dwindling relevance. This means his continued hatred of Sonic doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, barring the fact that he's just been utilized so piss-poorly his entire existence anyway.

 

It also chafes against your insistence that characters need eternal reasons for being to be useful, like a set of Tom and Jerry archetypes who constantly fight. This viewpoint to some degree flies in the face actual development or change that can occur through decent writing- the fundamental concept of character development, something that Metal Sonic sorely needs. Ironically, under your logic, Metal has no more right to be in the series than Shadow does because he's been always been a wasted opportunity and complete drag as a result. Why continue trying with something that's just so damned boring? Get rid of him, I say.

 

 

Metal isn't 'hammering the point further' but deepening the idea and exploring the theme in an anthropomorphic personification. Metal represents the absolute of Eggman's vision and grandeur and operates in an almost eschatological way to carry out the goals of his master. That seems like a pretty damn clever way for a game series in its infancy to knock home a clever plot point.

 

No, my point is that characters have a storyline and when they expire past their planning, and there is no other clear goal, they should be left alone. They've done it with characters like Tikal and Chaos and they should have done it with Shadow (which was the plan anyway).

 

Arguably, Metal Sonic doesn't need to be in the series since his plot point was used in Sonic CD. However, since he still has a reason to hate Sonic, and it's in his original character, I think he deserves to be in the plot.

Doesn't seem like a good way to win an argument.

They did far more with Knuckles in S3&K than Metal in CD, and that was only about a year or so later. I'm not expecting the game to have fully voiced and animated cutscenes or anything, but they could have done more with what they had, and what they did do didn't accomplish much with Metal's character.

Except we never see this. At best, we might see a hologram of Metal bullying some animals, but we never see him doing it directly, and it doesn't establish him as anything more than a pawn of Eggman.

 

I was trying to show how silly it was to say Metal Sonic is pointless, but never mind that.

 

Sonic 3AK has a better developed story, I'd agree, but that doesn't equate to Sonic CD's being bad. Especially when you consider that Sonic CD was in the planning way before and came out before. The idea of properly infusing story was completely fresh and new.

 

And, like I've said before, just because something doesn't get screen time doesn't mean it is doing nothing in the plot. It's a deliberate design choice to make Metal Sonic a presence.

[Tara]

Arguably, Metal Sonic doesn't need to be in the series since his plot point was used in Sonic CD. However, since he still has a reason to hate Sonic, and it's in his original character, I think he deserves to be in the plot.

As much as I don't care to see Shadow again, as well as prefer Metal Sonic oodles more than Shadow, I have to disagree.  To further compare Shadow and Metal Sonic, both were brought back with little to no good explanation and with relatively lackluster results.  Neither of them "deserve" to be in the plot any more than the other, because both of their primary story arcs have been finished.

 

Also, on a related note, I think Metal Sonic's arc ended in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, actually, but that's delving into headcanon territory.

 

No, my point is that characters have a storyline and when they expire past their planning, and there is no other clear goal, they should be left alone. They've done it with characters like Tikal and Chaos and they should have done it with Shadow (which was the plan anyway).

But that doesn't have to be the case with every character.  A truly good writer can turn the end of a character arc into the beginning of a whole new line of development.  Granted, Sega's never been known for having truly good writers, but whatever.  I'm just saying that just because his arc is wrapped up doesn't mean that common precedence mandates he must never return for that reason.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Akito

[Nepenthe]

Metal isn't 'hammering the point further' but deepening the idea and exploring the theme in an anthropomorphic personification. Metal represents the absolute of Eggman's vision and grandeur and operates in an almost eschatological way to carry out the goals of his master. That seems like a pretty damn clever way for a game series in its infancy to knock home a clever plot point.

I'm sorry, but I find nothing particularly clever much less "deep" about clones or twisted versions of protagonists within fiction or the John Henry-esque man vs. machine themes, especially when this isn't even handled with any kind of real creativity. Metal Sonic is not a culmination of an idea so much as he is a neon-decorated bullhorn, not inherently different from the other Badniks Sonic faces, and the fact that it was a relatively new idea explored in the series at the time doesn't mean it has any real novelty, because the series does not exist in a vacuum but in a real international culture where it can directly pull ideas and inspiration from in the first place. 

 

No, my point is that characters have a storyline and when they expire past their planning, and there is no other clear goal, they should be left alone. They've done it with characters like Tikal and Chaos and they should have done it with Shadow (which was the plan anyway).

 

Aside from having the actual ability to be resurrected, which separates Shadow from other characters whom we are well aware are dead or separated from appearing due to mitigating circumstances, Shadow was given other goals from the outset. The timeline between the release of SA2 and Heroes, as well as Iizuka himself admitting that he always planned for the character to get a solo outing anyway, doesn't speak to some recurring idea that Shadow was never planned internally and without fan input to come back. If anything, the fan input would have very well been icing on the cake. But this is regardless of the fact that characters can be simply given new goals. And you can decry this as "wasted effort" somehow, to which I'll forever respond by merely pointing at Metal Sonic and his continued under utilization and subsequent bungles.

 

Arguably, Metal Sonic doesn't need to be in the series since his plot point was used in Sonic CD. However, since he still has a reason to hate Sonic, and it's in his original character, I think he deserves to be in the plot.

What do you mean "arguably?" Metal- like most of the other characters- literally doesn't need to be here at all because nothing fundamental to the franchise's undercarriage warrants his existence in order to actually work. The fact that you like him doesn't rescind that fact; we could boot him now and lose nothing except the relative peace on Sonic web circles due to Metal fans not bitching for awhile about said hypothetical boot.

[Mr. Taxi]

"lol palas big posts"

 

Yeah, right. Now here's why Metal Sonic is so well-liked and why I personally prefer Shadow in every way.

 

He's a natural addition to the series.

 

This has nothing to do with story or with characters being well written. It has enough to do with setting, universe and essence. For those who don't like my walls of texts, here's the tl;dr version: There are two fundamental elements in Sonic: Sonic, who uses his speed to fight, and Eggman, who uses machinery to fight. It's only natural that there should be something that unites both.

 

Simple as that? Yes, simple as that. It's only natural in every dichotomy to there be a possible synthesis, which applies to both heroes and villains. This thinking can be expanded to each and every hero, to the point we've had Metal Knuckles and Tails Doll once. And it was natural. It's one of those characters who don't actually need a backstory, much like Sonic and Eggman themselves. They build a universe just by being there and, because of that, Metal Sonic is the only truly natural anti-hero Sonic has.

 

It's not that there can't be others, but if there absolutely needs to be another one, he needs to be very well explained and add a significant portion of setting and universe to back him up. That's Shadow's case. Of course, he is a very interesting character and does not exclude Metal Sonic (nor does Metal Sonic impedes Shadow's existence). But the thing is - Metal Sonic has, is a sense, always been there. If only in our imagination in the form of the answer to the following question: "what would be a badnik version of Sonic?".

 

Sure, we had Silver Sonic and Mecha Sonic, who belong to the same class. Why Metal Sonic is specifically remembered and liked is probably because he's the only villain that you ever fought in this same natural manner - in a race. That and his appeal was extended by Sonic OVA. You can't diss Metal Sonic by saying we won't lose anything if he vanishes or is booted, because he'll always be latent, much like everyone's Super forms.

 

Now, this doesn't mean he should be in every game. In fact, I'd go as far as saying he has little place in Sonic right now - well, to be honest, Lost World has place for him, but I wouldn't like to see him. But he is the natural synthesis for Sonic and Eggman and is, thus, a very useful (and cool) resource in world-building.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Palas

[Scar]

Don't be silly, no one ever hated Sonic. They, rightly, hated the direction the series was going in. They used to mock the series for how incredibly low it had reached.

On the other hand, people resented Shadow, quite rightly, for his character completely derailing the series into all hell with Shadow and Sonic 06. For all intents and purposes, Shadow was the real main character of Sonic 06.

Stop acting like Shadow was the sole reason why the franchise was brought to the point of ridicule, because its really fucking stupid. The blame, again, lies with Sonic Team. And what about the people who talk of Big the Cat, Cream the Rabbit, Charmy Bee and so on, as being loathesome characters?

 

He was good in SA2 because he had a purpose and a cleverly written plot, but now the writers have no fucking clue what to do with him.

 

He just needs to die like he was intended to all along. It's just pathetic watching them drag his character, and the tone of the series, into the ground. He doesn't need improving, he needs to go!

You're talking like its 2007. Shadow and 06 were over 7 years ago. Shadow isn't currently running around in every game making people hate him and the series. His character hasn't done much of anything recently. The last thing he did was say....what....2 lines in Generations. Was that moment where he said his lines, so utterly dispicable, that it made everyone hate the game? Has his presence (or lack thereof) in the last few games tarnished the tone of the series to ridiculous grim-dark levels? Come on!

Shadow had a better characterisation than Sonic and pretty much all other characters, in 06. Everyone was uniformly terrible in Shadow.

Sufficient time has passed to allow Sonic Team to start redeveloping pretty much all the characters, INCLUDING Shadow. Are you so closed minded about Shadow as a character that you think that he can ONLY be grimdark and brooding? A character like his, can be reworked into a light-hearted series. Ever heard of a dead-pan-snarker? Doesn't even need to be that exactly.

And exactly why are you so resistant to Shadow being improved? Why is it a problem if Shadow remains, but his characterisation is improved? Do you hate Shadow so much, that you can't even stand to see him be improved enough to be a successful, well-executed character?

[Mr. Taxi]

I do have a problem with Shadow.

 

If you are to bring him back and write him well, you necessarily need a reason for him to be there. Not story-wise, but regarding the universe. You can make him an excellent anti-hero and rival, give him a dubious character and have him fight you in a crescendo of difficulty and story appeal. But if he's there just because someone wanted him there, and there's nothing in the universe justifying his presence, you are still making a crossover within a series.

 

And Shadow basically "means" Sonic Adventure 2, which has a setting I don't particularly like. That's all. It's like Silver. I like the idea for his gameplay and I see potential in him. But that doesn't change the fact that he can't be there without bringing some abstract notions such as "The Future, which is a strange notion in a series that has never built a solid notion of Present" (Like Shadow brings "The Past"), "Strange Powers unrelated to both hero and villain and that must be adequated to the progression of the game".

 

But that's a problem I alone have with Shadow. He can still be brought back, SA2 setting can function even inside a bigger universe and all. That'd just leave me unhappy.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Palas

[Furie]

Okay then, I admit defeat on a part of my argument. I know, rare on the internet.

 

Here is my new position:

 

Both Metal Sonic and Shadow should be taken out the franchise.

 

There we are

[Nepenthe]

Neither of them "should" be, because that implies there's some agency to them leaving, some objective reason for their leaving that will immediately improve the franchise. That's silly. Besides, both have pretty much been sidelined to the point that they've been "gone" for awhile anyway, and the franchise still isn't reaching any real great potential.

 

Granted, I have a feeling that you're now trying to construe an argument where Shadow can rationally leave the series without disagreement from the majority of participants.

[Furie]

Neither of them "should" be, because that implies there's some agency to them leaving, some objective reason for their leaving that will immediately improve the franchise. That's silly. Besides, both have pretty much been sidelined to the point that they've been "gone" for awhile anyway, and the franchise still isn't reaching any real great potential.

 

Granted, I have a feeling that you're now trying to construe an argument where Shadow can rationally leave the series without disagreement from the majority of participants.

 

 

Well Shadow fucking sucks so he should be given the kick

 

Joke (Kind of).

 

I actually think the games have been much better for simplifying things and returning back to the core of Sonic: Sonic himself.

 

I think the only characters should be Sonic, Tails (who should be playable and deepened) and Eggman. Possibly Knuckles if they can make him a rival and ancient protector of the Master Emerald again (if not, he should get the kick).

[Nepenthe]

Simplifying anything doesn't inherently improve the franchise's state of being unless the the quality of the existing elements and the overall new work is good enough to make up for it. We didn't get any amazing story out of Colors for example simply because it had the cast members you named. This, in turn, only proceeds to highlight the gaping hole that is the missing presence of other characters to their respective fan bases even further, so it's a lose-lose for people who actually give a shit about the narrative.

 

Frankly, I don't think Sega has the interest much less writing chops to somehow make a series that was known for most of its life for character introductions- for better or worse- somehow just as appealing or more so entirely without them. This current direction in regards to how it is handling the cast- both those who are there and those who aren't- is is a platitude to satisfy the tons of people who make illicit connections and arguments without nuance about the problems of the franchise, who say things like "If you get rid of x and add in y, everything will automatically be better," and nothing else.

[Tara]

I think the only characters should be Sonic, Tails (who should be playable and deepened) and Eggman. Possibly Knuckles if they can make him a rival and ancient protector of the Master Emerald again (if not, he should get the kick).

As I said a few pages back, I would not agree to this in the slightest.  Giving all the characters the boot would only un-diversify the cast, which is as equally damaging as over-populating.  Yes, I believe the main focus of the games, for the most part, should be Sonic, but Sonic, as a character, is a product of the world around him.  If he only has a friend or two to bounce off, he becomes boring and stale.  He needs a good plethora of relations to keep the series at a reasonable pace.  The same applies to all characters, really.

 

Granted, it shouldn't be like most of the games up until Sonic Colors where the story seemed weighed down due to the obligatory appearances by every character Sega felt to be relevant at the time, but restricting the franchise overall to only a few characters for the sake of simplicity is not the way to go.  Especially since the characters you mentioned would bring very little conflict that was out of the ordinary, so half the dialogue would be preaching to the choir due to the largely similar moral values all the characters share.