Characters you don't want to return

[Neon The Hedgehog]

The point of a video game is to experiment to see what you can and can not do.  That's how you gain the sensibilities of a seasoned player to begin with.  Also, in this day and age, we have browsers built into our consoles.  There's hardly any excuse to not look something up if you don't understand it.  Yes, I understand that newer technology is not always accessible to the older generation, but that's a considerably smaller profit margin.  Also, I find that, in general, in-game tutorials don't help improve sensibilities anyway.  They tell you how to do something, but practice still remains the only way you can get a feel for the controller and a clear understanding of basic game mechanics.

 

               You make a good point. Its like owning an apple device, the best way to learn how to use it is to play around with it. The only enjoyment I ever got from the tutorials was in SA2 when you had the option to throw Omachao (Its mean but we've all done it. The little guy can get on your nerves. And yet I still would rather he come back than Jet).

                But what about tutorials on the general direction or how to progress in a Sonic game? Like a hint as to where to go next or what you are supposed to accomplish in a level?

                    DIrection: I know in SA you had to criss cross around areas like Station Square and the Ancient Ruins to unlock different levels. If you were playing the game for the first time you would be confused as to where to go next without her guidance. Ive played the game a couple times and I still get lost even with Tikal  . Which is rather sad...

               Progress hints: Sometimes the tutorial gives you handy tips to make the boss battles easier too. Without these tips the harder levels would be brutal. Plus there needs to be tutorials on how to use new power ups. Power ups that even the Sonic pros have not seen before. 

              I know people can find all the answers on the internet. But when you play a game you want to have uninterrupted fun. Which is impossible for newbies if they keep having to have to check everything up.

[HippyAmy]

   Usually, tips are not only for Controls. Sometimes the tips given in the game by a guide character is interesting trivia that adds to the story, or for helping you find that ridiculous last emerald piece hidden on the other side of the map. Maybe you are stuck in a level, and omochao leaves you a tip. That is basically what he did. Perhaps instead of omitting tip givers, they could give an option to disable it? 

 

You can disable Omochao by the Sonic Generations main Menu Screen but he doesn't completely go away and still gives basic advice when the Zone is loading which is really annoying.

 

But a better disable button would be neat and be fair to both new players and older ones. 

 

I sort of like that learning experience, that try and error sort of playing games and just improving from step a to becoming really good that alot of older games seem to have like Ninja Gaiden on the NES but I think that I may of been a bit selfish here and should of realized that everybody is different and everybody plays games differently. 

Edited September 18, 2013 by HippyAmy

[Tara]

 You make a good point. Its like owning an apple device, the best way to learn how to use it is to play around with it. The only enjoyment I ever got from the tutorials was in SA2 when you had the option to throw Omachao (Its mean but we've all done it. The little guy can get on your nerves. And yet I still would rather he come back than Jet).

I thought Omochao was tolerable for that very reason.  He was much more interactive and you could have fun with him.  If they had given you a feature to turn him off, though, that would have been nice... especially during the final Tails/Eggman fight whereby his primary advice is "shoot at Eggman to defeat him!"

 

 

 But what about tutorials on the general direction or how to progress in a Sonic game? Like a hint as to where to go next or what you are supposed to accomplish in a level?

DIrection: I know in SA you had to criss cross around areas like Station Square and the Ancient Ruins to unlock different levels. If you were playing the game for the first time you would be confused as to where to go next without her guidance. Ive played the game a couple times and I still get lost even with Tikal  . Which is rather sad...

 

The need for an assistant character in that situation stems not from complex game mechanics, but through bad conveyance.  Depending on the type of game and context of a situation, there is no reason you should ever have to trek through every accessible area in the game in hopes of finding some place to go.  It's far too easy to get lost in the Mystic Ruins jungle when everything looks exactly the same, which makes hunting for those statues to access Lost World as Knuckles a pain in the neck.  The solution in this case is not to add in a tutorial character to tell you what to do, but to make a better-designed "puzzle."

 

Of course, it's perfectly understandable that you might take a break and forget where you left off.  In which case, it's not only okay but highly encouraged to have NPC's give subtle reminders as to what you were doing and what you need to do next.  But relying on them to give you instructions on where to go throughout the whole game is just... not a preferable form of gameplay.

 

 

  Progress hints: Sometimes the tutorial gives you handy tips to make the boss battles easier too. Without these tips the harder levels would be brutal. Plus there needs to be tutorials on how to use new power ups. Power ups that even the Sonic pros have not seen before. 

 

Again, part of playing a game is experimenting.  At least in my opinion, a boss battle should be all about examining its movements and strategies and locating a weakness.  I suppose I see nothing terribly wrong with having tutorials for upgrades, but I don't think they should be immediately forced upon you.  It would be interesting if instead of giving you the upgrade and then forcing you to listen to the lecture, you could receive the upgrade and then have a message telling you to press start to view the tutorial or something to that effect.

 

 

I know people can find all the answers on the internet. But when you play a game you want to have uninterrupted fun. Which is impossible for newbies if they keep having to have to check everything up.

 

In a game such as Sonic, I highly doubt you'd have to search "everything" up, considering every level typically follows the same gameplay mechanics.  But I'm not even suggesting that if someone is having trouble then they should have to look it up online or anywhere else.  There should always be an attempt to teach newcomers how to play the game, but long-winded tutorials are not always the preferable method.

[Jet Prower]

I know you can sometimes get lost a bit on more free roam games, but those types of games are definately better than follow the straight line from level to leve or the auto level progress of SA2. I can understand needing the help to find the new levels or hints on what to do next, but at the same time, you dont need to check them on SA1.

 

At the same time yes, having the option to turn the tutorials off as well would be for the best in most cases. Especially after the first go at the game, turning the tutorials off would be a great help for those that dont want to see them again. As I said before, I think alot of the time people get uspet at some of these tutortials because it seems like they are insulting our intelligence sometimes because of how many times it thinks it has to remind us of basic things. It is one thing to be spitting out random game facts about the universe and such like that, but it is another to keep saying hit certain button to do certain things over and over again.

 

 

We have gotten really off topic though here.

[TailsTellsTales]

Why is it that every time I visit here, the topic changes dramatically? What will be the next thing? Which Sonic character would you eat? The history of Sonic help guides? What about tutorials where you are forced to wait for it to end instead of skipping it? I want more playable characters or I will complain about it!

[Neon The Hedgehog]

Why is it that every time I visit here, the topic changes dramatically? What will be the next thing? Which Sonic character would you eat? The history of Sonic help guides? What about tutorials where you are forced to wait for it to end instead of skipping it? I want more playable characters or I will complain about it!

                 Yeah your right... I guess we kind of steered from the topic a bit. Personally I think in the end with tutorials they should be optional like HippyAmy said. Besides, more and more people are comfortable with games now so its not like everyone wont have a clue. So soon they kind of will become obsolete. Sorry, I'll go back on subject now...

                 Along with Jet I would rather not see his posse as well (I dislike them so much that I hadn't bothered to remember their names).  I'm not trying to offend anyone who thinks differently, this is just my opinion. But the other two birds feel like watered down versions of the other characters. The girl is kind of like rouge or blaze. And the big bird guy is kind of like an angry version of Mr.Big. And one Mr. Big is more than enough. 

[Uraraka]

                 Yeah your right... I guess we kind of steered from the topic a bit. Personally I think in the end with tutorials they should be optional like HippyAmy said. Besides, more and more people are comfortable with games now so its not like everyone wont have a clue. So soon they kind of will become obsolete. Sorry, I'll go back on subject now...

                 Along with Jet I would rather not see his posse as well (I dislike them so much that I hadn't bothered to remember their names).  I'm not trying to offend anyone who thinks differently, this is just my opinion. But the other two birds feel like watered down versions of the other characters. The girl is kind of like rouge or blaze. And the big bird guy is kind of like an angry version of Mr.Big. And one Mr. Big is more than enough. 

   Storm is annoying. He is like, what would happen if Knuckles got exaggerated and got merged into Big the Cat's body then magically transformed into a bird! Well, a bad description. but I agree, he is a repeat with very little to show for his own character!

Edited September 19, 2013 by knucklesgirl

[Neon The Hedgehog]

   Storm is annoying. He is like, what would happen if Knuckles got exaggerated and got merged into Big the Cat's body then magically transformed into a bird! Well, a bad description. but I agree, he is a repeat with very little to show for his own character!

              Yes I agree (Laughs at the magical merging comment because it is true ).

                      As I said before about Jet, there is also nothing appealing in Storm's character to me. He kind of is a mindless dangerous bloke. I mean, I get it. The bird team needed someone with the same stats as the sonic team (sort of like Sonic Heroes). Jets stats=Sonic, Girl Bird whatever her name is stats=Tails, and Storm's stats=Knuckles. Speed, Flight, and muscle. Which could be why the designs and personalities of the birds are similar to other characters. 

                     Would I feel differently if their personalities were different? Maybe... I dunno. I'm personally not really a bird person to begin with. Which also could be why I dislike the characters. So obviously my opinion of them was going to be bad no matter what. 

Edited September 19, 2013 by Neon The Hedgehog

[Johnny Boy]

I'm gonna parrot the past few posts and say the Babylon Rogues. They always love talking shit to the other characters but without their boards they're just as useful as Chris Thoryndyke. ESPECIALLY Wave, good lord.

[Neon The Hedgehog]

I'm gonna parrot the past few posts and say the Babylon Rogues. They always love talking shit to the other characters but without their boards they're just as useful as Chris Thoryndyke. ESPECIALLY Wave, good lord.

                 I agree with you a hundred percent. Plus, if they are birds, why do they use air boards at all? I never really got that. I never finished the board games since the bird characters annoyed me so much. I kept putting it off, focusing on other sonic games or pokemon. I probably should just sell them since they are going to jsut collect dust.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Neon The Hedgehog

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You're gonna question birds for being incapable of flight over the two tailed fox who shouldn't be capable of it in the first place, or the hedgehog that shouldn't be capable of running superfast, the echidna that can quake the ground by punching it, a hedgehog that can warp time and space, etc etc.?

Edited September 20, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Nepenthe]

Tails is a fox and can fly. Espio can somehow ignore physics and turn invisible. Charmy can sting people multiple times and not die. I don't think physical oddities are out of the realm of Sonic characters.

 

Edit: Dammit, ninja'd! D<

[Jet Prower]

Tails is a fox and can fly. Espio can somehow ignore physics and turn invisible. Charmy can sting people multiple times and not die. I don't think physical oddities are out of the realm of Sonic characters.

 

Edit: Dammit, ninja'd! D<

 

Physical oddities are no stretch at all for these characters. They barely have any necks and their legs and arms are rather long. They are all weird in their own way, but that is what makes them all members of the same group of evolution in a way. Sure, some are different slightly, but they do usually tend to share some similiar body characteristics, while each usually having their own individual things that make them, them. The rouges are a bit of a copy of the main three, though they do still have their own unique personalities, if only slightly just based on genders and their backstories and such like that.

[FalconKick]

Judging from the patterns of feathers on their limbs, I don't think ANY bird mobian/cartoony animal/whatever they call Sonic's sub-species is capable of flight. Even if they where, I doubt they would get far, seeing as out of the characters with flight, only Charmy Bee is capable of infinite flight (Unless Inzuka retconned that too, da bastich!). Everyone else has low endurance, so there is a practical reason for the boards.

Also, another character I don't want to see return: Void

Yeah I know, he was made for a spin-off title that will never get a sequel, but I thought he had a great design for a villian. Than i heard him talk (if that was a him) and his motivations turned out to be not so villainous, and he was part of some bad story that may have bee the precursor to some of the ideas Kingdom Heart had. So, yeah, waste of a good design. In fact, fuck it, just anybody from Sonic Shuffle.

Edited September 20, 2013 by FalconKick

[Your Vest Friend]

...only Charmy Bee is capable of infinite flight (Unless Inzuka retconned that too, da bastich!). 

 

No, it wasn't. Although Heroes made Charmy have a limited flight bar for the sake of gameplay, that might just be due to having to lug his teammates around. He's otherwise constantly hovering, and has done so in every game since. 

[FalconKick]

No, it wasn't. Although Heroes made Charmy have a limited flight bar for the sake of gameplay, that might just be due to having to lug his teammates around. He's otherwise constantly hovering, and has done so in every game since.

Ahh, glad they kept that part in....though it may not help Charmy's case for being a single playable character. Unless...Charmy Bee rail shooter any one?

[Tara]

Plus, if they are birds, why do they use air boards at all?

• Because it's fun?
• Because it's faster?
• Because it's physically less strenuous?
• Because, story-wise, it's more relevant to their ancient culture?*

 

There's plenty of valid reasons why they might choose to use hoverboards over their own natural ability of flight.

 

*Also "ancient hoverboard-riding birds" is probably the most surreal thing to ever come out of the Sonic series.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Or simply because they can, even if they can't fly?
 

Freaking Tails and Knuckles ride hoverboards, and they can fly...or glide in Knux's case.

[HippyAmy]

I think it's because it makes it a bit more fair, if all the animals didn't use the Hoverboards because of special abilities then what would be the point in Hoverboarding rofl ?

 

Sort of like Sonic and Car Games. We all know that he can just get out and run and speed down the track without one but the car makes it more fair for the other drivers that are not a speedy blue hedgehog.

Edited September 20, 2013 by HippyAmy

[Your Vest Friend]

What the Rogues really need are an opportunity to show what they can do off the boards as well as on them. It's fine for them to specialise in Extreme Gear riding, but at the moment that really restricts their versatility. Sonic and the Black Knight was a small taster, with Jet using those war fans from his level-up attack in the Riders series as proper combat weapons, but we haven't had much else asides.

[Kuzu]

The thing about the Rogues was that they were introduced to promote Extreme Gear and don't seem to have much in terms of abilities otherwise. I know this kinda makes them boring, but it makes them unique at least.

[Jet Prower]

With the rogues, the comics have put a little more effort into their characters than the games have of course. I haven't played Free Riders yet, but I will one day. The comics have shown that they are rebels from their main cause and are trying to do what they do because of the reason they want to instead of the reasons their main flock does. They just seem to have more going for them there, and if they are still there later of course, what else will come with them.

 

Yes, I've never cared for the rogues as I've mentioned before, thus I like when they lose. They have always been annoying to me.

 

As for the chaotix, I love them and would never want to see them go anywhere. Espio and Vector are two of my top five favorite characters in the entire series. I just find them funny and cool.

[Tara]

I'd personally rather the rogues stick to the Riders series, personally.  I don't know, something about them appearing in any other game doesn't seem right to me.  The whole extreme gear thing is their gimmick, and while I'm not particularly against seeing them in different scenarios, I simply can't picture it working out.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Akito

[Jet Prower]

I'd personally rather the rogues stick to the Riders series, personally.  I don't know, something about them appearing in any other game doesn't seem right to me.  The whole extreme gear thing is their gimmick, and while I'm not particularly against seeing them in different scenarios, I simply can't picture it working out.

 

How would you suggest to use them then? People seem to be getting tired of them being in the same scenario, yet others can't picture them out of that scenario. Where is the medium that would likely be acceptable?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Make them information brokers, anti-heroic mercenaries, and all around trolls towards all factions involved?

 

That's off the top of my head. I think there are plenty of things you could do with the Rogues if you just think outside the box and adapt them.