Characters you don't want to return

[Neon The Hedgehog]

   I'm trying to let go of the other characters all together, despite how much I love them. Because after Sonic 06 Sega really has not let Characters other than Sonic into the gameplay. Unless if its for sports or race car games. Which is really a shame. Its like Sega is blaming Sonic 06's failure on the multiple character gameplay which was not the problem with the game to begin with (*cough* it was mostly the creepy princess *cough*). I love the blue blur but I really miss gliding through the air as knuckles or hitting things with Amy's hammer. 

        Sega is trying to make the games have a classic feel by only letting you play as Sonic. So sadly in the end it doesn't really matter what characters we love or hate since none of them seem to be having a comeback anytime soon. I will be overjoyed if any of them return to be playable in the games. Except for Jet the Hawk, personally I'm not a big fan of him. Theres not much to his character that is likable. Thats just my opinion, Im not saying its bad for others to like him.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Neon The Hedgehog

[TailsTellsTales]

@Akito, Not mean for you to write that much based on my "Judge Silver" thing. I say it again Silver or any character should NOT be judged by Sonic06 alone because. That is like if you had a bad teacher who gave everybody F's on purpose including the "new kid" Silver. That means based on your reason, everybody should assume that Silver is a straight F bad student, even though he makes good grades. It is not his fault he had bad teacher. Same with it not his fault he started in a bad game. If Sonic06 was the only game for Silver, then yes of course that can be used for him, but the thing is, people tend to not be focused on characters in a bad game, (unless they are making the game bad) they tend focus bad game Sonic06 as in.

@Neon The Hedgehog, *cough* I agree the princess is creepy. *cough* Hi! Sorry my cough sounds like me talking. Hey, they should and probably will bring back other playable characters like Knuckles and Amy in a main game. Please try not lose hope for other characters to be playable!

[Tara]

@Akito, Not mean for you to write that much based on my "Judge Silver" thing. I say it again Silver or any character should NOT be judged by Sonic06 alone because. That is like if you had a bad teacher who gave everybody F's on purpose including the "new kid" Silver. That means based on your reason, everybody should assume that Silver is a straight F bad student, even though he makes good grades. It is not his fault he had bad teacher. Same with it not his fault he started in a bad game. If Sonic06 was the only game for Silver, then yes of course that can be used for him, but the thing is, people tend to not be focused on characters in a bad game, (unless they are making the game bad) they tend focus bad game Sonic06 as in.

Except that's a completely different scenario which can't be treated with the same dexterity as a character's overall personality.  At least with a failing student, you have a history that you can research and analyze; with a ficticious character such as Silver, you have nothing but his only significant appearance, and to many people, that one appearance just happened to reveal that he was a terrible character with misguided goals and actions on top of vexing traits which stem from the very core of his character.

 

Silver's personality was made to fit within the poorly-directed angle Sega was going for at the time.  He is a biproduct of the game's horrible plot and overall design.  His motivations and core character traits were defined by Sonic '06.  By contrast, look at Sonic and Shadow.  The former is still the cocky blue hero and the latter is still the super-serious buzzkill.  That wasn't something defined by Sonic '06, that's been the case for as long as each character has been in conception.  Silver appeared and he annoyed the hell out of enough fans to warrant a certain degree of disdain.  It doesn't matter that the game was terrible in its own right, he would still be an annoying character unless Sega made some serious revisions to his key personality traits.

[Splash the Otter]

Except that's a completely different scenario which can't be treated with the same dexterity as a character's overall personality.  At least with a failing student, you have a history that you can research and analyze; with a ficticious character such as Silver, you have nothing but his only significant appearance, and to many people, that one appearance just happened to reveal that he was a terrible character with misguided goals and actions on top of vexing traits which stem from the very core of his character.

 

Silver's personality was made to fit within the poorly-directed angle Sega was going for at the time.  He is a biproduct of the game's horrible plot and overall design.  His motivations and core character traits were defined by Sonic '06.  By contrast, look at Sonic and Shadow.  The former is still the cocky blue hero and the latter is still the super-serious buzzkill.  That wasn't something defined by Sonic '06, that's been the case for as long as each character has been in conception.  Silver appeared and he annoyed the hell out of enough fans to warrant a certain degree of disdain.  It doesn't matter that the game was terrible in its own right, he would still be an annoying character unless Sega made some serious revisions to his key personality traits.

Are you implying that Silver is an inherently bad character? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying. Also, what sort of changes do you think should be made to his character to make him more likeable?

Edited August 24, 2013 by ElectroKyurem

[Tara]

Are you implying that Silver is an inherently bad character? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying. Also, what changes do you think should be made to his character to make him more likeable?

As I expressed earlier, I'm not arguing for or against Silver, merely against the argument that a character shouldn't be judged by their first appearance, which I find to be highly disagreeable.

[Diogenes]

That is like if you had a bad teacher who gave everybody F's on purpose including the "new kid" Silver.

This is a pretty bad metaphor, because Silver exists only in his portrayal in games (or whatever media). There is no "bad teacher" judging him poorly; he simply is what he is written to be. If he's terrible in a game, he is as responsible for that failure as he would be if responsible for his success if he were good in a game. If he can't be credited with his failures, he can't be credited with his successes.

But even setting that aside, if we can't judge him based on '06, what can we judge him from? That's basically his only significant appearance; it's about the only time they've made any attempt to develop him as a character. Practically no one cares about the Rivals games, he was just a boss in Generations, and aside from that he only has minor cameos.

[Kuzu]

I think people judge more of what Silver could be and his overall potential, instead of what he actually is.

 

The reason I really don't care about him is because I wasn't really interested in the character in his debut...and that's basically the only thing I got to go on for the character. I don't care about his future because we know nothing about it, I don't care about his powers because they are merely traits which can be given to anyone, and I truly have no idea what his deal even is, like what does he even do that makes people so interested in him?

 

Shadow I can at least understand because the character had a good first impression despite what would become of him later, and has some bit of direction as an Antihero/Rival for future appearances, but Silver doesn't have that luxury because his first impression was as and nothing has been done to give him any direction for me to care about.

 

 

Its not that Silver is a terrible character, its that there's really nothing about him that stands out to like.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Azure Yakuzu

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Are you implying that Silver is an inherently bad character? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying. Also, what sort of changes do you think should be made to his character to make him more likeable?

The answer's yes...and no.

Silver is inherently a bad character because he was poorly written in his debut game, those flaws in writing his character being further magnified by how bad the rest of the game was. Now some people will go further and say he's an inherently bad character regardless, but that debut is mainly the crux of a number of his traits people put him in a negative light for.

Now, I don't think he's a lost cause, and I don't give a rat's ass for those who do think so as I could care less about how much I dislike the character myself if I see opportunities to better them. Silver has potential to be more insightful of future events, and while that leads to another matter entirely, it's merely a suggestion on how to further better him.

[TailsTellsTales]

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Edited August 24, 2013 by TailsTellsTales

[Cyclone T-301]

I agree that a first impression says a lot about the character and a deciding factor for any one to say how much they like or dislike said character.
Silver could've had his worst debut, but it doesn't rule out the possibilities to make him better. It could happen the contrary even.

 

To clarify, I don't mind Silver, I'm using him as an example, you can apply this to any character. I'm all for giving chances to the cast, but well, the writers have to make their job worth it.
 

--- --- --- --- --- ---

 

Giving my 2 cents on the topic, like everyone else, characters that already fulfilled their respective role, better not bring them back. Unless if they somehow find a way to incorporate them in future stories as long as is justified, but not forced. I don't think it will be harmful, but that's me.

Chaos would be an example. In Sonic Battle, it's said that he appears whenever the world is in danger. I know it could have been an excuse to put the character in the game, but I wouldn't mind if this is used in future games to give him a supportive role if the Master Emerald is involved in the story again.

Wishful thinking, I know...
 

[TailsTellsTales]

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Edited August 24, 2013 by TailsTellsTales

[LATER BUDDY]

Part 2/? - Phone only lets me type 1,024 characters.

Silver: I sure am Blaze...

Baliff: *Takes phone*

Silver: Hey!

Judy: SILENCE! I read your comments on here. You make very strong case here. Okay Silver I would like to hear your side of the story.

Silver: I would like my phone back...

Judy: NO!! YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE PHONE BACK UNTIL THE CASE IS OVER!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME!!

Silver: Yes your honor.

Judy: Speak!

Silver: Um... Wolf?

Judy: *Stares at Baliff* Tell me why you should be allowed to keep being in Sonic games.

Silver: I should keep being in Sonic games because Sonic06 was the worst game Sonic ever had. It was to the point where it made everybody look bad.

SGAC: *Raises hand*

Judy: PUT YOUR HAND DOWN!

Silver: Anyway, it seems wrong to judge me on a game that made everybody look bad at. I not had my fair chance.

Judy: You make very good point. Let me read your comments here. *Reads* Okay than. SGAC, why do you think it's okay to judge anybody on only one game?

SGAC: "Continued Later!"

 

Uh, sorry but these spammy type posts aren't going to fly really, since you're more over just making a story than rather giving your thoughts on to why you wouldn't want whatever characters not to return. It's pretty derailing, especially how you're splitting it into chunks (I don't care if it's your phone's limitations). So while I hate being a killjoy, if you wanna make an input with your opinion, state it in a matter that people can discuss off of and not turn the thread into a role play, thanks.

[TailsTellsTales]

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Edited August 24, 2013 by TailsTellsTales

[VGamer]

In saying that he should just be better off as a Rival and not go beyond that archetype, you are in essence saying that he'd be better off being 2 dimensional.

 

No I'm not. If anything, we're on the same page here. He shouldn't go beyond being a rival to Sonic, that's what I want Shadow to end up being. Even though Free Riders wasn't a main game, I actually liked Shadow's cockiness and attitude towards others (especially when it came to Sonic). The reason I'm against him having any more backstory or stories trying to add to his backstory is because the stupid Maria and Gerald stories have been done to death at this point. SA2 was made for that, that's it. Just have Shadow be a rival now and let's not keep going back to that.

The reason I say this is because the last two times Shadow was in a competent game (more specifically, games that involved him in the story), it focused on his history. I know that Sonic Team can take his character and make it into something more akin to Free Riders (again, even though it was a spin off), I just want to see it happen.

 

 

Characters can't grow beyond their archetypes and become better characters if you don't let them do more. It has less to do with backstory and more to do with character development, but a ranting and raving about how Shadow has a backstory as if that alone is a detriment and praising characters just for being their archetypes that don't need to go beyond that is precisely my point of how you'd rather have 2 dimensional characters over 3 dimensional ones.

 

I thought you didn't want Shadow to go beyond his archetype of being a rival? I'm kinda confused here.

Again, I'm not against Sonic Team showing us more Shadow in-game, as long as it has nothing to do with Maria, Gerald, or the ARK. Just have him be the cocky rival that Sonic goes up against, that's all I want.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

No I'm not. If anything, we're on the same page here. He shouldn't go beyond being a rival to Sonic, that's what I want Shadow to end up being. Even though Free Riders wasn't a main game, I actually liked Shadow's cockiness and attitude towards others (especially when it came to Sonic). The reason I'm against him having any more backstory or stories trying to add to his backstory is because the stupid Maria and Gerald stories have been done to death at this point. SA2 was made for that, that's it. Just have Shadow be a rival now and let's not keep going back to that.

The reason I say this is because the last two times Shadow was in a competent game (more specifically, games that involved him in the story), it focused on his history. I know that Sonic Team can take his character and make it into something more akin to Free Riders (again, even though it was a spin off), I just want to see it happen.

If you can't think beyond the terms "rival" and "backstory" over how to further characterize Shadow, then no we're not on the same page. There are things such as "mentor", "guardian", "soldier", "wanderer", "anti-hero" (his dominant archetype) and a myriad of various other ways to characterize him beyond simply being a rival with a backstory. And even then, there's a matter of how he behaves when not just his backstory is referenced (which isn't a problem for being in focus, it's the fault of bad writing that's the problem), but when various other traits and actions, where his loyalty lies at the moment, and the consequences of his action or inaction, and the clashing of these elements and more that further adds growth going beyond being a rival with a backstory.

 

This is what I mean by leaving him as 2 Dimension and not allowing him to go beyond that, and these things aren't exclusive to Shadow as we can find a variety of other ways to characterize everyone else in their own unique way. We can do more instead of defining characters so simplistically as Sonic is the hero, Shadow is the rival, and nothing else. That's how we can get multi-dimensional and even more memorable characters.

I thought you didn't want Shadow to go beyond his archetype of being a rival? I'm kinda confused here.

Again, I'm not against Sonic Team showing us more Shadow in-game, as long as it has nothing to do with Maria, Gerald, or the ARK. Just have him be the cocky rival that Sonic goes up against, that's all I want.

I never said I didn't want Shadow to go beyond his archetype, because I do in fact want him to go beyond that. I actually made that clear the first time when I said "they should do more to make him an interesting character". But going beyond that does not mean that he should abandon it entirely nor is such growth defined on (or harmed by) having a backstory.

 

He doesn't need to go back to Maria or Gerald (as for the ARK, I say that has a lot more value as a setting and plot device), but he shouldn't stay locked in as a rival and not be allowed to take other paths in his character like that of a mentor, wanderer, and the other terms I mentioned above and more.

Edited August 24, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[SonicFan210]

The only good Sonic characters were Sonic, Miles, Knuckles, Amy, Metallic Sonic and Dr Eggman. All new ones are terrible because they spawn terrible games that make Sonic limp. Major reasoning for Sonic's failure is because of crippled characters.

 

However, old characters added good features for Sonic. They should stay and bad characters like Shadow can be deported. Shadow is by far the most character needing of exporting.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

"If it's broken, don't fix it. Just throw it away and hold onto the other broken parts!"

 

...Yeah, I don't get it.

Edited August 24, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[SonicFan210]

"If it's broken, don't fix it. Just throw it away and hold onto the other broken parts!"

 

...Yeah, I don't get it.

 

Are you talking to me Sonic fan?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Are you talking to me Sonic fan?

Depends. Do you fix what's broken or do you throw it away and keep the stuff you like that's also broken?

 

Edit: Oh brother...Anyone reading this, let's not feed it guys.

Edited August 24, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[SonicFan210]

Depends. Do you fix what's broken or do you throw it away and keep the stuff you like that's also broken?

 

You throw away the train part that's never worked and replace it with reliable Miles .

 

Shadow is bad part, always breaking down. He needs to be thrown into furnace .

 

Is that good answer Sonic fan?

[Blacklightning]

You throw away the train part that's never worked and replace it with reliable Miles .

Sooooooo you're saying that Tails needs to be angsty, gullible and telekinetic, then? =V

[SonicFan210]

Sooooooo you're saying that Tails needs to be angsty, gullible and telekinetic, then? =V

 

Why would tails be a gull    and when are gulls telekinetic? 

[VGamer]

If you can't think beyond the terms "rival" and "backstory" over how to further characterize Shadow, then no we're not on the same page. There are things such as "mentor", "guardian", "soldier", "wanderer", "anti-hero" (his dominant archetype) and a myriad of various other ways to characterize him beyond simply being a rival with a backstory. And even then, there's a matter of how he behaves when not just his backstory is referenced (which isn't a problem for being in focus, it's the fault of bad writing that's the problem), but when various other traits and actions, where his loyalty lies at the moment, and the consequences of his action or inaction, and the clashing of these elements and more that further adds growth going beyond being a rival with a backstory.

 

This is what I mean by leaving him as 2 Dimension and not allowing him to go beyond that, and these things aren't exclusive to Shadow as we can find a variety of other ways to characterize everyone else in their own unique way. We can do more instead of defining characters so simplistically as Sonic is the hero, Shadow is the rival, and nothing else. That's how we can get multi-dimensional and even more memorable characters.

I never said I didn't want Shadow to go beyond his archetype, because I do in fact want him to go beyond that. I actually made that clear the first time when I said "they should do more to make him an interesting character". But going beyond that does not mean that he should abandon it entirely nor is such growth defined on (or harmed by) having a backstory.

 

I will say that I do agree with most of this stuff, only sort of. He should be Sonic's rival, and I wouldn't mind him becoming different things such as a mentor, guardian, etc. As long as Sonic Team does NOT change him to become solely those things (Shadow becoming a guardian of the ARK or whatever in EVERY game for instance), I'm fine with that.

When I say Shadow should be the rival, I don't mean he should be a rival and just that. I mean that's what people should think of when they think of Shadow. It should be his basic title. That's not to say he can be more in future games, but that should be his basic characteristic.

Jet is a perfect example. He's Sonic's rival, right? But that's not all there is to him. We constantly see that he's greedy, thinks Storm is stupid as he constantly facepalms at what he says, he wants to be the best, and probably other things that I can't think of right now. He's not 2 dimensional, he has a personality. Shadow should be like this (not like Jet's personality itself, but an actual personality).

 

 

 

He doesn't need to go back to Maria or Gerald (as for the ARK, I say that has a lot more value as a setting and plot device), but he shouldn't stay locked in as a rival and not be allowed to take other paths in his character like that of a mentor, wanderer, and the other terms I mentioned above and more.

 

Like above, I can agree with this (except no more using the ARK as a plot device please, also had enough of that in Shadow The Hedgehog and SA2).

[Irish David]

I haven't been a big fan of Big the Cat, i just don't see what the point of him is, even in Sonic Adventure. I can't comment too much on Silver as i didn't play Sonic 06 that much. A group like Jet, Wave and Storm i don't think need to make a reappearance either, i don't believe they made an appearance in the driving Sonic games (correct me if I am wrong). Chip probably wont make reappearances either

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I will say that I do agree with most of this stuff, only sort of. He should be Sonic's rival, and I wouldn't mind him becoming different things such as a mentor, guardian, etc. As long as Sonic Team does NOT change him to become solely those things (Shadow becoming a guardian of the ARK or whatever in EVERY game for instance), I'm fine with that.

When I say Shadow should be the rival, I don't mean he should be a rival and just that. I mean that's what people should think of when they think of Shadow. It should be his basic title. That's not to say he can be more in future games, but that should be his basic characteristic.

Jet is a perfect example. He's Sonic's rival, right? But that's not all there is to him. We constantly see that he's greedy, thinks Storm is stupid as he constantly facepalms at what he says, he wants to be the best, and probably other things that I can't think of right now. He's not 2 dimensional, he has a personality. Shadow should be like this (not like Jet's personality itself, but an actual personality).

'k, now we're on the same page. But there's still a few irks here.

 

For one, Shadow does have an actual personality: stoicism (to shield himself from trauma like he had 50 years ago), ruthlessness (is far more willing to resort to less morally ideal choices to get a job done), sardonic (contrasting Sonic's more playful mocking), and all around has his own sense of right and wrong that clashes or blends with other characters. It's kinda how he'll fight Sonic at one point before siding with him the next, no different from Jet in that regard.

 

Now whether it's interesting is up for you to make out, but all that is in fact an actual personality.

 

Like above, I can agree with this (except no more using the ARK as a plot device please, also had enough of that in Shadow The Hedgehog and SA2).

 Why not? I'd kinda like to see it as a place where there were more weapons of mass destruction hidden in them, just like there are more secrets of the Chaos Emerald, more places in the world, and all around new elements that we haven't seen before to flesh the universe out.