Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing

[S0L]

I christen today - DS answer day

I see S0L

Playing through the DS version I am quite shocked at how well the tracks from the home consoles are replicated, I'm very impressed but one thing I've noticed is most of the tracks dont have barriers on the edge of them like the home console versions do so I was wondering if you could give us any info about that. I'm guessing it's either to give DS players a challenge or its due to size restrictions of the DS game cards but any info you can share would be very appreciated

EDIT: Darn, he's gone

It's not really size restrictions, or as we want DS players to keep falling to their doom, MUHAHAHAHAHA! The real reason is purely the limits of how many polygons you can draw. You have an upper limit of 2048 polygons on screen at any time, if you try and draw more, it literally ignores any. Adding details like low walls or barriers would take up a huge chunk of that. So the only choices you have then is to either omit them, place some invisible collision (yuck) or place them and either reduce the detail elsewhere, or pull in the draw distance.

It's actually a tricky balancing act, especially as we wanted to keep the courses as close as we could, I think the call at the end of the day was right though, the control of the car is more forgiving on DS so this offsets the lack of borders in places.

Here are my two questions for S0L since they came at a bad time two posts ago:

I do have two questions, however, and one is with the axed Showtime mode. The idea of having Robotnik messing with your racer seems well, fun and in character. But since Robotnik was going to be racing, how would have that worked? I would think that Eggman Nega as a stand in as the announcer could have made it worked since the man is a psychopath, and that you also have the same VA ( Robotnik was the results commentator for Mission mode in Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity, even though it was in text.) I hope there will be chances for this in a future game. I mean, it sounds so awesome, and I could hear the man talk all day long.

Second is, I really REALLY now want to see your company take a spin on the Mario Kart series. Next Level Games did an outstanding job producing the characters for the Strikers series and Punch-Out!, and they are a third party developer. I wonder if there will be any chance of seeing that?

First, having Eggman doing the commentary and messing with the race either meant we'd have to go some splintered reality, cloning, or purely removing him as a playable character. The other side was that in order from it being stale quickly, you'd need a massive selection of interesting events. It was also a balancing nightmare! Not to mention the events would have to work on all tracks at all times. It was a good idea, but time and budget intensive, I know you hate it when we talk business, but it's the truth.

I'm happy to leave Mario Kart to NCL, but if they want someone to do a DS version of F-Zero

Got the game on DS today! I had to go to two different Gamestops, one in a local strip mall, and another in a local shopping mall. The one in the mall checked with their sister store on the other side of the mall, and they were all sold out. He then checked two other locations nearby, and none of them had the game. That's four stores sold out! Well done Sumo Digital? They had them earlier in the week... is the game just popular, or did they not get enough copies? Ive never had trouble finding a Sonic game on release before. I was especially surprised to hear the handheld was gone, which I imagined was the least popular version.

So I went on down to Best Buy where I was sure they'd have a pile of copies. I only saw two in the DS section there... more shortage of the game? Who knows.

Anyways. I'm very happy with it! The screens looked pretty gritty from what I saw, but naturally the game looks better in motion. The content is impressive, the mission mode especially fills out the time I'll spend with the game. The opening cinematic was a nice touch, even though I knew about that last week. I might've liked a more involved congratulations screen for finishing cups and stuff. Presenting it in text makes the game feel like a series of menus outside the races. But I can't complain about that - the gameplay is definitely strong. I'm surprised that my favorite racers are Amy and Shadow, though I only unlocked half the content.

I'm wondering what gameplay differences the handheld's got compared to the console versions. The way most of my races go so far, either I pull about five seconds ahead and stay there, or I get stuck in the middle which is a hell of crossfire and all-star moves. All the racers keep very close. They don't let up with weapons either (sucks to be nailed from behind by an all-star while you're in 5th too), which usually means getting knocked around a few times back to last, though I have had it work in my favor on certain courses. Also the drift. I heard it was different in this version. You hit it and start drifting in the direction you're moving, but you can tweak it around to steer while drifting. Haven't played the console version, but the videos I saw seem different. It's a little like snaking, I think. Also, really nice how the tracks are the same. Sometimes the handheld is the throwaway version of a game, but this is the full package. That's dedication, Sumo!

I'm hoping the trouble you had getting it is down to massive sales, and not a lack of stock shipped

Again, James and the guys spent ages making sure you couldn't snake (and SEGA tried their best to find exploits!). The Drift is more forgiving on DS, as we have to use simpler physics, plus you're playing with digital controls, so it does tend to help you round corners more on DS. DS is really good for TT too!

We also try to make sure all versions of our games are just as good, certainly the DS team for this and SST have more than rose to task of squeezing such a big game into such a little cart!

Anyway.... this isn't Sonic & SEGA All-Star Racing but when I play this game, I'm playing Sonic & Sega Epic-Win Racing.

Truly Sumo... Thank you, hats to you.

This is certainly making my list of forum comments that's going to go round the team and to SEGA Made my afternoon that!

Does the DS version have different songs in the shop? I think it might. Oh, and playing this on the DS makes my thumbs hurt like hell.

All the DS music is new in some way, some are based on tracks we use in the full version, but they're all remixed to take advantage of the midi format. Some tracks were done especially for the game, for example there are two completely new Samba compositions. When you midi-fi music, some works well, some doesn't work at all. Personally my favourites are the 'Can you feel the Sunshine' remix and the JSR tunes, we didn't think Allister and Anthony would get so close, but they really did. We'd get the tracks back in 2's and 3's as they worked through them, and it become something to look forward too very quickly!

I was keen to use Midi for the game, as it left a lot more space for actual game, just to give you an idea, Bentley's piece and the Crush 40 piece used in the credits take up about 10% of the actual cartridge...! So it wasn't really an option to use the same full set of music used in the big platforms, you'd have likely wound up with 1 music track per IP, and at less than stellar quality too.

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S0L

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[Barry the Nomad]

I'm hoping some of the midi tunes hit YouTube! I'd love to give them a listen

[SuperLink]

I'm hoping some of the midi tunes hit YouTube! I'd love to give them a listen

Most if not all of the Sonic tunes have been uploaded already, I gave them all a listen and some of them are pretty damn awesome.

However I thought Be Cool, Be Wild and Be Groovy sounded a bit off. Anyway I really want to hear the Monkey Ball and Billy Hatcher DS tracks, so I hope they get uploaded soon.

[Stasis]

I'm hoping some of the midi tunes hit YouTube! I'd love to give them a listen

Lost Palace Theme - Can you feel the sunshine?

Seaside Hill Theme

Bingo Party Theme - Super Sonic Racing

Turbine Loop Theme

Roulette Road Theme

Ocean Ruin Theme

Tutorial Theme

All credit goes to Soniczeki

[Barry the Nomad]

I'll have to buy the DS version when I buy a DSi someday. probably years from now, considering I JUST bought a GBA SP. lol

edit: thanks for the links! adding those to my (checks) 3gig, 1.5 day long iTunes Sonic playlist lol

Edited March 4, 2010 by Doctor Eggman

[GameboyHero]

Lost Palace Theme - Can you feel the sunshine?

Seaside Hill Theme

Bingo Party Theme - Super Sonic Racing

Turbine Loop Theme

Roulette Road Theme

Ocean Ruin Theme

Tutorial Theme

All credit goes to Soniczeki

I remember some of these were posted back on Retro, but hey a few new ones as well! Listening to these has that Megaman X type of feeling. Love it!

[PMario64]

Lol, the controls are epic for Time Trials!

...But what about those absurd tester times? xD

[Detective Shadzter]

I christen today - DS answer day

It's not really size restrictions, or as we want DS players to keep falling to their doom, MUHAHAHAHAHA! The real reason is purely the limits of how many polygons you can draw. You have an upper limit of 2048 polygons on screen at any time, if you try and draw more, it literally ignores any. Adding details like low walls or barriers would take up a huge chunk of that. So the only choices you have then is to either omit them, place some invisible collision (yuck) or place them and either reduce the detail elsewhere, or pull in the draw distance.

It's actually a tricky balancing act, especially as we wanted to keep the courses as close as we could, I think the call at the end of the day was right though, the control of the car is more forgiving on DS so this offsets the lack of borders in places.

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S0L

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Thanks for the answer, some interesting stuff there regarding DS game development. I'm getting used to no barriers slowly and steadily. At first I kept falling off every turn, especially when playing online against Mahzes(a member of this forum) but I shall have my revenge one day I bought all 4 console versions too so when I'm switching between formats I have to re-master the DS controls

Oh and I must say my usual line, DS Rumble Pak support is awesome *gets beaten up by all SSMB members for keep repeating that linef*

[Glenn]

Loving the old school MIDI sounds! Thanks for the links, Stasis!

Roulette Road is made of win!

[karto]

While I've been loving every minute of the game, I do wish for a few things in DLC (or possibly a sequal )

More Songs

I can't help but feel a little disappointed with the in-game selection, but this could easily be solved by DLC. Maybe even including songs from other games not relating to the track (eg A Nights song for a Sonic course)

Retro Courses

One thing I'd love to see is improved versions of the Sonic R courses (Radient Emerald could be a cool level, maybe lol), or possibly Nightopia (a slightly transparent track to almost make it seem everyones flying).

Characters/Vehicles

I'm not to bothered about more characters (although Ristar & Vyse would make me the happiest gamer ever lol), but I would like to see altenate vehicles. They wouldn't change the character stats but just be a visual change.

Commentor Change

If you don't mind the commentor, maybe a few other sega characters could do some?

I know most of you have heard all these WAY too much but I just had to get it off my chest

[SuperLink]

More Songs

I can't help but feel a little disappointed with the in-game selection, but this could easily be solved by DLC. Maybe even including songs from other games not relating to the track (eg A Nights song for a Sonic course)

Agreed with this, all the Sonic music seemed to be from Sonic Heroes or Sonic Rush with just a few exceptions, and all the Monkey Ball music was from Banana Blitz, two of which weren't very iconic, with only one tune from the older SMB games.

Dlc music would be awesome.

pleeeaaaase!

[Barry the Nomad]

Agreed with this, all the Sonic music seemed to be from Sonic Heroes or Sonic Rush with just a few exceptions, and all the Monkey Ball music was from Banana Blitz, two of which weren't very iconic, with only one tune from the older SMB games.

Well, it's more of a mix of Heroes, Rush, SA1, SA2 and Sonic CD. Rather varied if you ask me.

As a 360 owener I say no music DLC please. Sort of pointless to buy Big's theme song when I can use the custom music feature to play it.

[Chooch]

Well instead of music DLC, how about we just patch the PS3 version so it'll have custom soundtracks?

[SuperLink]

Well, it's more of a mix of Heroes, Rush, SA1, SA2 and Sonic CD. Rather varied if you ask me.

There's one Sonic CD and SA2 song, those are some of the "few exceptions". I guess there is quite a bit of SA music. Still, what about Unleashed? Advance? Sonic 1-3&K? I'd rather have a couple of tunes from loads of games rather than 3-5 tunes from 2 or 3 games.

As a 360 owener I say no music DLC please. Sort of pointless to buy Big's theme song when I can use the custom music feature to play it.

I suppose, but custom music is never looped as nicely as ingame music...

If Cobalt Caverns was put up as dlc, or some awesome remix of something, I'd download it fo' sho'.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Lyra

[JezMM]

Well, it's more of a mix of Heroes, Rush, SA1, SA2 and Sonic CD. Rather varied if you ask me.

As a 360 owener I say no music DLC please. Sort of pointless to buy Big's theme song when I can use the custom music feature to play it.

Who wants to be fiddling around with playlists when the game is loading though? Especially during online races. Plus I kinda like the surprise of random music on each track.

Stuff I'd like in DLC:

At least 2 new songs for each IP.

At least 3 new unique tracks for an IP (Space Channel 5 would be my first choice) OR at least 1 new track for each existing IP.

At least 5 new battle arenas (in other words, one for each remaining IP).

At least 2 new characters OR at least 5 new vehicles for existing characters.

At least 10 new dialogue lines for characters (where applicable, obviously voiceless characters like Amigo and Chuih are fine but the others get repetitive).

The ability (just for completion's sake - and this has been hinted at too) to unlock Ryo-F for a very high price of SEGA Miles.

The last one probably shouldn't appear for a while though, so as to not slight those with the reward of pre-ordering. Perhaps add a slight recolour/design change/whatever to non-preorder Ryo-F to be fair.

Since as people said extra music on 360 would be silly, I imagine this all being in one large pack rather than split up.

Edited March 4, 2010 by JezMM

[Sean]

I played a little of the DS version, and it's fun for a few tracks before it gets pretty stale.

Think I'll just save up for Mario Kart DS.

[Barry the Nomad]

No need to fiddle before a race. Choosing a custom soundtrack song is nearly as simple as selecting a song before a race. Create a playlist that sits at the top of all your other playlists (I titled mine "1 - SASAR"). THen it's as easy as: choose racer -> choose track -> (as the race loads) guide button -> shift to music -> select playlists -> select the SASAR list -> guide button -> race has loaded, game starts

[JezMM]

No need to fiddle before a race. Choosing a custom soundtrack song is nearly as simple as selecting a song before a race. Create a playlist that sits at the top of all your other playlists (I titled mine "1 - SASAR"). THen it's as easy as: choose racer -> choose track -> (as the race loads) guide button -> shift to music -> select playlists -> select the SASAR list -> guide button -> race has loaded, game starts

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm pretty custom soundtrack savvy myself, I made a whole one of over 50 tracks (even edited them in audacity to repeat perfectly like game music too) for Sonic Unleashed, but it's still a fiddle (though then again, SaSASR music is prolly less fiddley to do considering all stages either have a long loading screen or a menu between them...).

[SuperLink]

I just got a whole bunch of people the Outrunner Achievement by letting them all lap me.

Feels good man.

[Barry the Nomad]

aw, i wish somebody was that giving for me.

[Glenn]

I asked earlier about DLC musical tracks... S0L must have been busy, but I'd adore some more musical tracks in a PlayStation3 DLC!

Made a list earlier, too. Must have gotten buried somewhere.

[Barry the Nomad]

When using the Avatar All-Star Move, I noticed that the friends who run in aren't my friends. Was that feature dropped due to some sort of coding issue? I miss my friends

[SuperLink]

aw, i wish somebody was that giving for me.

Same Dx

But I did it in the hopes that Karma would work its magic.

[Badnik Mechanic]

I just got a whole bunch of people the Outrunner Achievement by letting them all lap me.

Feels good man.

lol, I got that without any help. It's not that bad, just play the billy hatcher course that has the big shortcut, not everyone knows about it, if you take it on all 3 laps against a new player, you'll win it no problem.

[Chooch]

I hate the Confusing Star. I hate the Confusing Star. I hate the Confusing Star. I hate the Confusing Star. I hate the Confusing Star. I hate the Confusing Star. I hate the Confusing Star. I hate the Confusing Star. I hate the Confusing Star.

I seriously hate this fucking weapon. Nothing is more rage worthy in this game than getting hit by that six times in a row in the same race.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Top Cat