Sonic-related pet peeves?

[Frogging101]

I just find fandom hate in general to be pretty annoying. I've seen it most with the Sonic fanbase (only because that's what I have the most experience with). A few weeks ago on the Sonic Generations discussion board on Steam I saw someone make a thread basically saying "I feel bad for enjoying this game because I don't want to be associated with these kinds of people. You know the ones" (the thread was here but the guy edited it a month later and now it says something different). I explained to him why the Sonic fanbase isn't actually that bad (on page 2 I think). But yeah, it pisses me off when people go "hurr durr the Sonic fanbase sucks" as if the whole fanbase is a bunch of idiots/furries (or whatever that particular person thinks). We're not much worse than any other fanbase.

[Tara]

I just find fandom hate in general to be pretty annoying. I've seen it most with the Sonic fanbase (only because that's what I have the most experience with). A few weeks ago on the Sonic Generations discussion board on Steam I saw someone make a thread basically saying "I feel bad for enjoying this game because I don't want to be associated with these kinds of people. You know the ones" (the thread was here but the guy edited it a month later and now it says something different). I explained to him why the Sonic fanbase isn't actually that bad (on page 2 I think). But yeah, it pisses me off when people go "hurr durr the Sonic fanbase sucks" as if the whole fanbase is a bunch of idiots/furries (or whatever that particular person thinks). We're not much worse than any other fanbase.

I know I'm going to be killed for this, but...

 

I generally think all fanbases are about the same.  Yes, there are some differences in terms of magnitude and others, but in general, everywhere I go, I don't see much different.  When I go to EquestriaDaily or any other forum I don't get that much of a different feeling than when I go to SSMB, yet, I'm always getting a bunch of "lol lotsa tards there" comments if I mention either site.  I've honestly just learned to translate that out to "I didn't get along well there, therefore people are stupid."

 

Now, to clarify, I understand that there are vastly different communities based on different interests.  I obviously wouldn't say that I could go to some kind of religious message board or the comments section of a fashion article and expect the same thing as SSMB.  I'm just saying that when you have overlapping interests, they're bound to be remarkably similar in nature.  I think we tend to exaggerate a bit more on fanbases to things we don't like.  For example, I've done my share of "all COD players are 12 year olds who micspam curse words at everyone" jokes, but in reality, I know that a lot of them, maybe even most of them, are decent people who just enjoy the game, and just to solidify the fact that I am a horrible hypocrite, I know I've made a ton of "browniez are annoying" statuses.  Again, that all comes from the part where our mind exaggerates on the things we don't like.

 

But yeah, I'm not too big on bashing fanbases either, but this is the internet, and anyone who has a different viewpoint than me is a moron.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Akito

[Tani Coyote]

This has probably already been mentioned, but having all the echidnas (and minor characters created by Penders) magically vanish from the comics is really farfetched and obviously a way to get the whole Penders case out of the way. =/ I hope they can solve this somehow in the upcoming issue, but I don't really know where the story is going now.

 

And what about Knuckles? He is going to be SO emo in future issues. ><

 

It seems odd for Archie to suddenly drop them when they ignored him for so long.

 

I suspect Penders was able to find some legal device that gives him the rights to the characters. Ergo, he CAN demand Archie not use them. Stupid as it sounds that fancharacters (as the vast bulk of them count as) can be copyrighted.

 

Of course the egg is on his face since chances are high he won't be able to use them in his own work. While he could, he's probably earned Sega's ire. Ergo, the company that normally is fine with fan work will shut him down very fast.

 

Overall we're going to see the echidnas go away for a while I think.

 

Let's hope Knuckles doesn't do anything crazy. We wouldn't want Dark Mobius to result...

 

(Granted, Dark Mobius results from a spinoff in the Chaos Knuckles arc, but it seems to share some qualities with the Light Mobius timeline, which mentions a significant event was Knuckles going nuts and Sonic having to stop him))

[Skyler]

Calling rings "coins"

Sonic Advanced

The concept of SA3 in general

"Rogue" the Bat

People who claim SA2 was the last good Sonic game

Journalists who shit on Sonic without cause

Fan characters

Fan fictions

Fan shippings

Fan rants

Fans

 

That's about it.

[andrewtuell1991]

I though of a few more.

 

1. People who can't seem to understand that Sonic 3 and Knuckles is one game not two.  Although I can't really blame.  Sega keeps reinforcing the latter opinion by doing the following.

 

2. Compilations that have BOTH the Sonic 3 and S&K stand alones AND Sonic 3 and Knuckles.  What's the point?  Aren't you wasting disk space to have the exact same game on there TWICE.  Can't they just re-release only the full game and pretend the two incomplete standalone never existed?  Would we honestly be losing anything of significance?

 

3.  People who keep wanting Sonic to be the next Dragon Ball Z, by suggesting that everyone should get a Super, Hyper, Ultra, Mega, Ultimate, Darkspine, Thesaurus form.

Edited February 27, 2013 by andrewtuell1991

[Diogenes]

2. Compilations that have BOTH the Sonic 3 and S&K stand alones AND Sonic 3 and Knuckles.  What's the point?  Aren't you wasting disk space to have the exact same game on there TWICE.  Can't they just re-release only the full game and pretend the two incomplete standalone never existed?  Would we honestly be losing anything of significance?

What's the harm in it, though? It's not like a Genesis rom is a huge file, so I can't imagine disk space is that much of a problem. And are they actually including separate copies of 3, &K, and 3&K, or are they combining 3 and &K in the background when you pick 3&K? Plus, considering there are some differences between the combined and separate games, there is good reason to give the player the choice of which they want to play.

[andrewtuell1991]

What's the harm in it, though? It's not like a Genesis rom is a huge file, so I can't imagine disk space is that much of a problem. And are they actually including separate copies of 3, &K, and 3&K, or are they combining 3 and &K in the background when you pick 3&K? Plus, considering there are some differences between the combined and separate games, there is good reason to give the player the choice of which they want to play.

 

It just irks me seeing the same game thrown in there twice, while other games such as Chaotix, Sonic Eraser, and the pico games get the boot.  YMMV on the games I listed but It'd be nice to see something new in the next compilation.  Plus, in this day and age we STILL don't have a compilation with all four main series Sonic games (1, 2, CD, 3K) in it!

 

As for the bold part, what would we honestly be losing by excluding the stand alones?  Just re-add the Knuckles cutscene taking place in Angel Island instead of Mushroom Hill and give an option to toggle between 3 and K's music track for Main theme, Knuckles theme, and miniboss theme and we'd be good.

[Diogenes]

It just irks me seeing the same game thrown in there twice, while other games such as Chaotix, Sonic Eraser, and the pico games get the boot.

Those would require effort. If you can put in S3&K, putting in S3 and S&K is trivial. I can assure you, it's not S3 and S&K that are pushing those games out.

Plus, in this day and age we STILL don't have a compilation with all four main series Sonic games (1, 2, CD, 3K) in it!

No but you've got about 3 dozen different ways to play any one of them, so I don't see any real need to repackage them all together.

As for the bold part, what would we honestly be losing by excluding the stand alones?

Some layout differences, some music, Sonic fighting the Big Arm, the ability to start from Mushroom Hill...

Just re-add the Knuckles cutscene taking place in Angel Island instead of Mushroom Hill and give an option to toggle between 3 and K's music track for Main theme, Knuckles theme, and miniboss theme and we'd be good.

That's more effort for arguably less reward.

[iDEATH]

2. Compilations that have BOTH the Sonic 3 and S&K stand alones AND Sonic 3 and Knuckles.  What's the point?  Aren't you wasting disk space to have the exact same game on there TWICE.  Can't they just re-release only the full game and pretend the two incomplete standalone never existed?  Would we honestly be losing anything of significance?

 

Aren't there some plot differences if you play the games seperatley  as opposed to playing the together?

 

If you're argument is that including both versions keeps out other gamesand you're going at it from a completeness angle, then you'd have an incomplete set if you didn't have both versions of the story

[andrewtuell1991]

No but you've got about 3 dozen different ways to play any one of them, so I don't see any real need to repackage them all together.

That one's more for convenience of not having to change discs to play all 4 main series classics. I'm lazy.

 

Some layout differences

Only three levels if I'm not mistaken and the changes aren't THAT drastic.

 

some music

If the Sonic CD 2011 can give the option of toggling between two entirely different soundtrack , I don't see why an option can't be included to toggle between a few tracks.

 

Sonic fighting the Big Arm

You still fight him as Knuckles so it's not like he's out of the game completely.

 

the ability to start from Mushroom Hill...

Who the heck starts a game from the middle?  That's like arguing that there isn't an option to start at Labyrinth Zone for Sonic 1 or Mystic Cave for Sonic 2.

 

Aren't there some plot differences if you play the games separately as opposed to playing the together?

 

If you're argument is that including both versions keeps out other games and you're going at it from a completeness angle, then you'd have an incomplete set if you didn't have both versions of the story

 

There's no plot differences between S3nK and the standalones.  Heck if anything the standalone add confusion to the plot, such as Death Egg exploding at the end of S3 standalone and Sonic just being at Mushroom Hill w/o any explanation on how he got their or where Tails went (What was the point of excluding Tails from S&K standalone?).

[Diogenes]

Only three levels if I'm not mistaken and the changes aren't THAT drastic.

I'd still rather have the option than not.

If the Sonic CD 2011 can give the option of toggling between two entirely different soundtrack , I don't see why an option can't be included to toggle between a few tracks.

SCD '11 uses an entirely new engine and was rebuilt from the ground up. The collections are basically just throwing some roms, an emulator, and some menus on a disk. Recreating S3&K for something as insignificant as this would be far more work than necessary for no real benefit.

You still fight him as Knuckles so it's not like he's out of the game completely.

No, but he's still out of Sonic's game. Removing S3 standalone removes an option from the player.

Who the heck starts a game from the middle?  That's like arguing that there isn't an option to start at Labyrinth Zone for Sonic 1 or Mystic Cave for Sonic 2.

Except--and stay with me now--that's how the games originally were. No matter how much you want to complain about people not understanding or acknowledging that S3&K is basically one game, it was still one game physically split into two pieces. That is how people experienced it, that is how it exists in reality. You have given exactly zero good reasons not to allow people the option of experiencing the games as they actually existed.

[andrewtuell1991]

Except--and stay with me now--that's how the games originally were. No matter how much you want to complain about people not understanding or acknowledging that S3&K is basically one game, it was still one game physically split into two pieces. That is how people experienced it, that is how it exists in reality. You have given exactly zero good reasons not to allow people the option of experiencing the games as they actually existed.

 

That's how they originally were, but it's not how they original intended. 

 

I know at the end at the day, including both options would make everyone happy, that it wouldn't take up too much space especially on today's consoles, and that it's not the reason several games keep getting excluding from compilations, but to me it'll always feel redundant.  Different strokes for difference folks as they say.

[Tara]

I don't mean to pull the nostalgia card, but in regards to the "S3+K should be merged and the fact that they were separated should be lost in history forever," I'd really have to argue that nostalgia is the primary reason why they've not kept it merged and for good reasons.

 

If they merged it, we'd have fans, probably including myself, that would be complaining that they miss the title screen of one of the games or that they miss some miniscule difference that doesn't affect the overall game, but was part of the charm of the original.  For a more recent example, that's why they decided to distribute the original SA2 via Steam and then an optional upgrade to Battle for an insignificant price.  (Well, that, and they wanted to find some way to get people to pay $2 for a pretty meaningless upgrade)  While it's true that the original and the GameCube version are really not that much different aside from the multiplayer, there were some charms from the original that some people prefer over the upgraded version.  The title screen, that incredibly morbid section in the Dark Chao garden with that enormous pot that was edited out of Battle, the graphics had a lighter palette.  (Seriously, it annoyed me that Tails, Knuckles, and Rouge were so darn tan in the GameCube version!)  Basically the little things that make the experience complete.

 

EDIT - I guess what I'm saying, in short, is that sure you could just merge them and get a sufficient emulation of the experience, but when I buy a game compilation, I'm not paying for a "sufficient emulation" of the experience; I'm paying for the full experience as it was back in the day.

 

I'm sure there are other benefits too because nostalgia aside; even 1997's Sonic and Knuckles Collection gave you the entire Sonic 3/Knuckles arc in three separate entities, plus Blue Sphere.  Admittedly, though, that may have just been them wanting to make some quick money by getting you to buy one CD with the same game three times.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Akito

[Thrippa]

I don't really think that S3&K can be called 'how the game was originally intended', though.  Yes, S3 was unfinished drawing near to release date  and had to be given a quick termination while several levels were held back, but I'm not certain that S&K was made up of nothing except what was planned for S3.  Aside from anything else, that means the super emeralds and hyper forms were intended from the beginning, and a lot of people argue they aren't canon because they're an artifact of the game really being two games.  You can't have it both ways.  Either the game was always intended to be S3&K and the only added bits were the terminal bit of S3 and the start of S&K, or you're dealing with the remnants of an unfinished game, which had extra levels and items added to turn them into a complete game.  And if they added extra to S&K then it's not S3 'as originally intended'.

 

(The following is not directly linked to the above, but a tangent of sorts.) 

   One of my pet peeves is people pulling up considered or scrapped characters, ideas, plot points (not just in games, but movies and books) and insisting that they were supposed to be in, or that the creator was forced to drop them out but they 'really' belong so the finished version is incomplete.  Sometimes something that seemed like a good idea turns out not to be, so just because someone thought about sending Bugs Bunny to Jupiter, once, doesn't mean that it's a tragedy that he ended up going to Mars or that he should have done both in the same short. (Somehow I typo'd that as 'done goth in the same short' which would really be weird.) 

    Other times things really do get dropped purely for technical or time reasons (e.g. Han talking to Jabba in Star Wars, which was in the novel but not the movie when released, even though Han's part was actually filmed), but just because it was part of the concept at one point doesn't automatically mean the game/ movie/ book is unfinished or missing something because of it.  Discussion how things might have been is great, but talking about how they should have been is not always accurate.

[Semi-colon e]

I feel like Sonic 3 gets the shaft by Sonic Team compared to S&K. The lock on just erases all the 3 only music and replaces it with S&K (to the point where the credits medley only has S&K music), all the story happens in S&K really, and even in Generations Sonic 3 got a measly one boss in the 3DS version, while BOTH versions main level representations were from S&K. In the main version of Generations, Sonic 3 isn't even represented at all unless you count Seaside Hill Classic with Hydrocity to a certain degree.

 

In a similar note, 3&K seems to get a lot less love than 2. I can see why because 2 was the most popular, but I'm sick of them rehashing 2 with the constant half pipe special stages, the bajillion casino levels, them using the Sonic 2 Death Egg Robot (rather than the S&K one, would have been nice to have that in HD with that Cash Cash and Jun Senoue remix that the 3DS version got) in Generations just after it had been semi-reused in Sonic 4 Episode 1, and then Sonic 4 Episode 2 rehashed Sonic 2 AGAIN. Even in Generations Sonic 2 had the only DLC representation with Casino Night.

 

And then the credits for Generations adds insult to injury by showing Sky Sanctuary then "Sonic and Knuckles" like Sonic 3 never existed at all! It's like "look at how great Sonic and Knuckles was... oh and Sonic 3 I guess".

 

I swear the only Sonic 2 level that hasn't been rehashed by this point is Mystic Cave (oh and I guess Hill Top, but Sky High from the GG/MS one retroactively resembles it I guess).

Edited February 28, 2013 by Semi-colon e

[Gabz Girl]

^ Amen! I'm one of those who considers Sonic 3 a far superior game than Sonic 2. And why does SEGA shove Sonic 3 away in favour of S&K? Mind you I really like S&K too but I find it very suspicious that they didn't use a Sonic 3 stage for the 3DS version instead of Mushroom Hill, one of the weakest stages in S&K. Yes there's Big Arm and elements of Hydrocity in Seaside Hill, but they're not stages! I wanted to see Marble Garden or Hydrocity, that would've been awesome!

 

Speaking of Generations, another peeve of mine is that the only handheld game represented in the 3DS version is Sonic Rush. Um...where's Rush Adventure, or hell any of the other handheld games! Lazy much?

Edited February 28, 2013 by Gabz Girl

[Semi-colon e]

I'm guessing that it wasn't Dimps who chose the levels for the 3DS version. I expect that was all up to Sonic Team.

 

I'd love to learn more about the creative process in which the levels were chosen for the two versions of Generations and why they were chosen, actually.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Semi-colon e

[Your Vest Friend]

The shunting of Sonic 3 when it was the one classic quadrilogy Sonic game I didn't grow up with in my childhood actually seems ironic from my point of view. 

[Straw Hat]

When people regard the Hedgehog Engine as a game engine enstead of a graphics engine...

[Silencer226]

You guys are going to hate me, but one of my pet peeves is when people love to try to apply real world logic to this series. It doesn't make sense to me.

[Tara]

You guys are going to hate me, but one of my pet peeves is when people love to try to apply real world logic to this series. It doesn't make sense to me.

Well, it depends on what you mean by "real world logic."  Even for a series as fantastical as Sonic, there has to be some kind of grip on reality so that the audience can relate to it.  But yeah, when people force worldly logic on it where to an unreasonable extent, it's a little silly.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Eh, it can be fun tho when you try and figure out how much force Sonic can hit you with running at Mach 1.

 

Applying everything realistically? Hahahah, no...and there have been people in the past who did this as an excuse to criticize certain parts of the franchise. I remember a Sonic Riders 0G review that criticized how unrealistic it was to use flying debris to move even faster, complaining about how it's "teaching kids to run into stuff to move fast).

[Tani Coyote]

I don't care if Sonic's a cartoon hedgehog, drawing Super Sonic as some gigantic fiery monster is just awesome.

 

 

I mean just look at that!

 

I suppose that'd be a peeve polar to the other one, that people argue that just because the character is cartoony it can't be serious. I don't know why seriousness necessitates everything be super realistic.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Ogilvie Maurice

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

That a general peeve to most people here. It's funny, because a lot of people reference Mario as a franchise that is lighthearted and doesn't need to be dark and edgy or even have a story while either forgetting or being generally unaware of two games in the series that had fleshed out and REALLY dark and disturbing plots even for a Mario game. Okay, in all fairness, they're RPGS...on second thought, that might be irrelevant since the Mario series isn't as episodic in its entries as Sonic is.

 

Point being that, if any other lighthearted and comedic series out there can pull off some darker and edgier plots or add in some very gruesome and disturbing elements for a game with a predominantly young audience, what in the world makes it impossible for Sonic to do so?

 

I can name no less than 5 series that have done this.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Point being that, if any other lighthearted and comedic series out there can pull off some darker and edgier plots or add in some very gruesome and disturbing elements for a game with a predominantly young audience, what in the world makes it impossible for Sonic to do so?

 

I can name no less than 5 series that have done this.

 

It's just an idiotic stigma (I think that's the right word) that has been applied by people who are too stupid to realize that this kind of thing is possible, or hold a double standard about who can do what. Granted, to be fair, SEGA/Sonic Team have somewhat earned this stigma considering that their two most notable attempts at something dark and edgy ended up being either incredibly juvenile or just plain nonsensical.

 

That being said, it is still kinda boggling considering that in spite of these two poorly done attempts, there have been at least 3 semi-decent attempts that are at worst inoffensive (Unleashed, Secret Rings, and Black Knight, although I say semi-decent since they all suffer in the body of the plot, but that is something else), and yet they still act like a good story can only be something a brain-dead monkey can understand and no-one else could possibly enjoy.