Sonic-related pet peeves?

[Tani Coyote]

All of the above examples are of different sexes; naturally there's going to be a more noticeable difference to emphasise traits considered masculine or feminine.

 

But overall yes, body type is what really needs playing with.

 

With Big and Blaze though, breeds of cats and dogs are readily recognised since we have regular interaction with them; whereas you don't see much variety in the way a wolf or tiger's depicted, there's hundreds of ways to depict a cat or dog. Their designs will be more varied naturally.

 

As I recall the human imagination is ultimately limited to what it has already seen. Sounds like to help with more varied character design, SEGA's artists need to go on a world tour and see all the different species and subspecies.

[Alec]

With 173 pages this has probably been brought up, but my biggest pet peeve is the confusing and contradictory continuity of whether Blaze originally existed in Sonic's dimension or not, and if not, how she ended up there to then exist in the future. I can't, and don't want to, believe that Sonic Rush was made without any forethought or comparatively, despite 06 being awful, that they gave absolutely no thought to the contradictory use of her.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Wentos

[Spin Attaxx]

Sonic Rush came first. It says Blaze is from another dimension. This backstory has been confirmed by Takashi Iizuka at Sonic Boom 2012, and has been the backstory used in the majority of her appearances. Ignore Sonic '06. Pretend it never existed.

 

And sorry, but Blaze's appearance in '06 really DOES seems to be given absolutely no thought. I mean, that's just one of many plotholes in that mess.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Jack / Joker]

I don't really see a problem with Eggman Nega looking like his ancestor considering they're both part of the Robotnik (lol) family.

 

In fact it makes a lot of sense. Much more than with most lookalike characters...

 

What's the problem again?

Edited March 23, 2013 by Starscream

[Spin Attaxx]

There's looking similar, then there's being a complete palette swap.

 

Gerald wasn't a recolour of Eggman, so why should Nega be exactly like him only with different colours and retarded accessories and the word "Nega" slapped onto the end?

[Diogenes]

Gerald wasn't a recolour of Eggman

Save for the lab coat, he pretty much was, especially in ShtH.

[Alec]

Sonic Rush came first. It says Blaze is from another dimension. This backstory has been confirmed by Takashi Iizuka at Sonic Boom 2012, and has been the backstory used in the majority of her appearances. Ignore Sonic '06. Pretend it never existed.

 

And sorry, but Blaze's appearance in '06 really DOES seems to be given absolutely no thought. I mean, that's just one of many plotholes in that mess.

 

Fair enough. Never knew he spoke on it. I wasn't saying that 06 had a lot of thought given to it, I was saying that it was either one or the other (Rush or 06) that had no forethought used in them. Clearly, the culprit is 06, then, but it still does exist and still makes no sense. Yes, they retconned the events but unfortunately if one is to include it as a thing that exists then presumably Blaze exists in that future. Quite shit, really.

[Jack / Joker]

Gerald was literally Dr. Eggman but skinnier and with a less eccentric outfit.

 

Nega is probably just as if not even more different than Gerald to Eggman as a whole, to be fair...

 

And what was so retarded about his accessories? He looks right at home next to a man with a red military jacket and pregnancy pants, and his nemesis, a glove-wearing, shiny-shoed naked guy...

Edited March 23, 2013 by Starscream

[Blue Blood]

And sorry, but Blaze's appearance in '06 really DOES seems to be given absolutely no thought. I mean, that's just one of many plotholes in that mess.

 

Pretty much this. I don't bother trying to solve the Blaze origins problem because it's just a case of the developers being idiots one way or another. And do you know the proof for this? The Sonic '06 script that was leaked:

Blaze styles herself as protector and controller of the Sol Emeralds (which are antithetical to the Chaos Emeralds).

She comes from another dimension, where she plays a role similar to that of Sonic and Knuckles combined.

Normally very cool and collected, deep down, she harbors very real emotions.

If she is angered and loses her composure, she can be a frightening woman indeed.

[Spin Attaxx]

Gerald was literally Dr. Eggman but skinnier and with a less eccentric outfit.

 

Nega is probably just as if not even more different than Gerald to Eggman as a whole, to be fair...

 

And what was so retarded about his accessories? He looks right at home next to a man with a red military jacket and pregnancy pants, and his nemesis, a glove-wearing, shiny-shoed naked guy...

 

At least for Gerald, they actually changed his body structure and gave him more personality than "Eggman, but eeeeeeviler!"

 

And bumblebee shoes are friggin' retarded even by Eggman's standards. Plus that leather jacket makes him look like an old man desperately trying to stay hip, cool and relevant.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Diogenes]

I think he was only skinny after spending a while rotting in jail. Aside from that he's always looked pretty Eggman-y.

[Jack / Joker]

Oh come on, all they did to Gerald was make him a non-obese-but-still-tubby Eggman, and threw a white sheet over him. Nega's personality is irrelevant, I thought this was about his design? And Eggman's main goal seems to be getting as much attention as possible, so it's normal that his descendants all aspire to be just like the attention-whore that he is...

 

You don't seem to be backing down on this Nega hating, which you kinda do everywhere. I don't really care about Nega but anti-fanboyism isn't so cool.

[Alec]

I seriously don't see how Eggman Nega should be such a point of contention among people, really. Is it not obvious that the character wasn't meant to, well, look like anything other than Eggman with a ridiculous suit? I don't think it was supposed to be taken so seriously.

[Spin Attaxx]

Considering how the third most prominent villain in the series is literally nothing more than Eggman with different colours, it's a pretty sad thing.

 

Warning: long explanation of why I don't like Nega (including aspects other than design)

 

 

I like Nega's original concept. I appreciate that they decided to give Blaze her own villain. But the fact that they went for Eggman in a different suit just screams unoriginality. It's like if the next Zelda game introduces a new villain, and it's literally nothing more than Ganondorf in a top hat and tailcoat.

 

His design is made even worse by something else - his personality and relation to Eggman. It is downright insulting for Eggman fans in my opinion. Aside from belonging in that old stupid dark variant/"we're opposites" tripe, he is described as basically being exactly like Eggman, only eviler and more sadistic and never goofs around.

 

In short, Eggman, but better.

 

So yeah, not only did they copy Eggman and remove all the quirks and charm that made him likable, they had the balls to say he's a more effective villain than Eggman. And this guy is a recolour of the man himself.

 

A recolour is a better villain that the villain he's based on. That's piss in Eggman fans' water right there.

 

No matter how you look at it, dark/evil versions of villains only serve one purpose - degrade the original villain. Especially if said villain is the main recurring villain If SEGA wanted an eviler Eggman, then they should have made him more competent, rather than create a brand "new" character to one-up him FOUR times in a row. Everytime Nega showed up, he always made Eggman look like a joke.

 

And Nega's motivation is pretty lame too. While Eggman just wants to plaster his face everywhere and conquer the world just to fuel his own egomania, Nega's motivation is the same old DESTROY FUCKING EVERYTHING that's on par with MOTW motivations.

 

He's a Villainous Scrappy; I want him to lose when I see him not because he deserves it, but because I'm ashamed of his (frankly random) recoloury design and just want him to go away before he ruins more of Eggman's dignity.

 

That's why I hate Nega. I'm sure Dr. Crusher could explain Nega's awfulness factor better, but I suppose this'll do for now.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Tani Coyote]

Well said, Spin Attaxx. I never really thought of it that way but... yeah. That's a pretty meh character overall. I mean relative of Eggman probably could have been cool and all, but they seriously couldn't make him completely different barring goggles and mustache? Recolors are somewhat the norm now but now that I think about it he comes off as some fanmade character: he's a few switched colors and is basically the same character, but is now magically better because he was made through the power of imagination.

[Mauro Fonseca]

His design is made even worse by something else - his personality and relation to Eggman. It is downright insulting for Eggman fans in my opinion. Aside from belonging in that old stupid dark variant/"we're opposites" tripe, he is described as basically being exactly like Eggman, only eviler and more sadistic and never goofs around.

 

In short, Eggman, but better.

 

Pishposh, nonsense, and bullshit. He's shown to be reckless and fail in his schemes as much as Eggman, even willing to destroy everything in a petty "nyah I dont win you dont win either" disposition. He's shown as an alternative to Eggman- a serious Eggman, who still loses because he's a villain.

 

You're the one projecting that "Darker = more competent = better".

[Spin Attaxx]

Nega has to lose because he's a villain. The petty "nyah nyah imma kill everyone" and Nega's other eeeeeviler than Eggman traits make Eggman look more heroic than Nega, and truthully, that's not a good thing for who's supposed to be the primary villain.

 

And they couldn't just make Eggman more competent instead of making a seperate character that fills that role because? Hell, Eggman seems to be getting more crazy like Nega with each game in recent years.

 

And darker =/= more competent.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Mauro Fonseca]

Then what the fuck are you saying? They couldn't make Eggman more... What?

 

This all hinges that you find Nega more competent. Why do you find Nega more competent? He's not shown to be more competent, he's shown to be darker and serious, but still gets the same results. So I'm sorry, I'm going to have to assume you think darker = more competent, or this doesn't make sense.

 

It's the whole logic of his role in Sonic Rivals! He comes from the future, thinking he'll be more competent and do better than Eggman, and still loses! He's an arrogant villain constantly shown his shortcomings for thinking he's better than the main villain. So I really don't know what the fuck you're going on about.

[Spin Attaxx]

I'm saying this:

 

Nega is described as being like Eggman, only more competent. The fact that he was able to get one over the man with 300 IQ and usurp him as the main villain TWICE suggests this.

 

My question is why didn't Sonic Team just make Eggman more competent instead of creating a brand new character that is exactly like Eggman, only more competent?

Edited March 23, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Mauro Fonseca]

You mean the man with a 300 IQ (which by the way doesn't mean jackshit) who constantly can't foresee the betrayal of giant water gods, giant dragon robots, and other assorted giant stuff?

 

Not to mention, what does Sonic Team even have to do with this? Rivals is by Backbone, and you problem with Nega seems to stem directly from Rivals. You DO know Nega wasn't made for those games, right? Sonic Team created Nega to be the Eggman from Blaze's world. He is apparently more serious and gets shit done, but is revealed at the end to be even more of a loony and therefore as incompetent as Eggman.

 

In Rivals? Yeah, he bests Eggman. So Eggman sends Metal Sonic against him, and the heroes go against him, and he ends up burning in a dimensional hell. LOOK AT ALL THAT COMPETENCE

[Kuzu]

I'm saying this:

 

Nega is described as being like Eggman, only more competent. The fact that he was able to get one over the man with 300 IQ and usurp him as the main villain TWICE suggests this.

 

My question is why didn't Sonic Team just make Eggman more competent instead of creating a brand new character that is exactly like Eggman, only more competent?

 

 

Except he isn't. He's Eggman but more poilite and less hammy. I have no idea where you're getting that he's competent from.

[Spin Attaxx]

Ok, maybe "competent" isn't the word I'm looking for, but "evil".

 

It's pretty much been made clear that Nega's more evil than Eggman, what with the whole BAWW I LOSE BLOW UP UNIVARSE thing he has that Eggman doesn't.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Mauro Fonseca]

So you WERE saying Evil=competent. Ok.

 

Yeah, Nega is eviler. So what? Are you of the opinion Eggman needs to be more evil and kill things and maybe even lose the name Eggman? If not, I don't see how Nega being evil should be of any consequence to you.

[Spin Attaxx]

No, I'm saying Eggman should be more evil in his plots, but KEEP his goofy characteristics. That's why Eggman is a good villain - he isn't a black void of RAHR I'M EVIL, he's a guy who means serious business, but is happy to act hammy and comical. Play Sonic Colours - those PA announcements will convince you.

 

I don't know why you think I'm one of those who think Robotnik should be super-serious and menacing all day every day.

 

I'm also saying that what is essentially a carbon copy of the primary villain being more evil and an overall better villain than the primary villain is insulting. It only serves to degrade Eggman as a villain and portray Nega as superior in practically every way.

[Mauro Fonseca]

But he ISN'T overall a better villain. It's what we've been saying all along. Also, did you just back on your arguments? I thought you were saying you didn't mean he was competent.

 

I think you're one of those guys because you're complaining Nega is better than Eggman. Who is Nega? Eggman, but dark and serious. So, you'd RATHER have Eggman be Dark and Serious.

 

Because otherwise, your argument holds no water. Nega is not more competent. He's not a better villain. He's not superior. He's never shown to be any of these things. And you keep harping on it, though.