Sonic-related pet peeves?

[Tani Coyote]

Pet peeves: The Stomp and Slide moves.

Mostly because they're so bland. I really hoped that for Generations they'd replace the Stomp with the Bounce Attack and the slide with the Somersault (albeit more like Sonic Advance 2 so it goes directly into a sliding move), not exactly minor changes but it'd have made the gameplay at least some sort of blend between Adventure and Modern for nostalgia's sake. Plus the Bounce attack is infinitely more fun than the Stomp.

 

Huh. In retrospect this is actually a pretty cool idea.

 

The somersault might have been slightly harder to implement since the slide is often used at high speeds; it just looks natural when Sonic slides on his back like that. But given that they used the spinball for tight turns, I don't see why we can't implement a bounce move or somersault as well. It would avoid peeving the retro fans while at the same time sending the Adventure ones down nostalgia lane. Sounds like a win-win.

[Sega DogTagz]

Sounds like a win-win.

 

eh.

 

I can see how someone could overlook the appeal of the stomp, but its a dang near necessity in the speed-running circuit at this point. Throwing away the stomp and replacing it with a bounce would be a huge misstep in that regard. Not to mention the stomp is one of the few precision moves in Sonic's arsenal of tricks.

 

Now adding a bounce in addition to a stomp... its a little redundant, but it could work.

[Tani Coyote]

eh.

 

I can see how someone could overlook the appeal of the stomp, but its a dang near necessity in the speed-running circuit at this point. Throwing away the stomp and replacing it with a bounce would be a huge misstep in that regard. Not to mention the stomp is one of the few precision moves in Sonic's arsenal of tricks.

 

Now adding a bounce in addition to a stomp... its a little redundant, but it could work.

 

For precision the most important use of that would be enemies, I think, and the homing attack works fairly well in that regard. It competes with the Spin Dash as one of his most iconic moves.

 

Doesn't he spin to knock obstacles out of the way anyway? Logically a bounce would just be the same thing but in reverse. Only problem is it might hurt Suspension of Disbelief; you can tell he comes down with a lot of force when he stomps. When he just bounces it feels kind of weak.

[Tara]

In Sonic Adventure 2 the bounce attack and ring/light dash moves are mapped to the same button on the controller. This often means bouncing to my doom in a bottomless pit when trying to get a chain of rings with the light dash.

 

If both moves had been mapped to different buttons on the controller then this wouldn't be an issue.

I have far too many memories of dying because I meant to dash but instead bounced.  I didn't mind it back in the day, but now I'd probably lose my patience after that happens.  I don't understand why they couldn't have made them different buttons.  There's two action buttons on the controller, for God's sake!

 

Ironically enough, when SA2 came out, the biggest complaints I heard were that activating the switches in Crazy Gadget were mapped to the same button and you'd often end up rolling when you meant to push the switch.  I always took that as a sign that you were going too fast, but that's just me.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Akito

[Kuzu]

eh.

 

I can see how someone could overlook the appeal of the stomp, but its a dang near necessity in the speed-running circuit at this point. Throwing away the stomp and replacing it with a bounce would be a huge misstep in that regard. Not to mention the stomp is one of the few precision moves in Sonic's arsenal of tricks.

 

Now adding a bounce in addition to a stomp... its a little redundant, but it could work.

 

 

If you reworked the bounce with actual physics(i.e. the higher you bounce from, the higher you'll go) it can easily be a much better speed running tool than the stomp.

 

 

 

Going off what Prof. J said; the lack of any real spinning maneuvers kind of bothers me. It's to the point where it's hard to even consider Sonic a hedgehog anymore, the only time he does spin is when using a homing attack.

[Tani Coyote]

Going off what Prof. J said; the lack of any real spinning maneuvers kind of bothers me. It's to the point where it's hard to even consider Sonic a hedgehog anymore, the only time he does spin is when using a homing attack.

 

Yes, this is true. While he does a spindash while turning corners as I recall, overall that moves will see minimal use as there seems to be less emphasis on curves in the newer stages than there were in say, Unleashed. So you're only going to see him really spin when he homing attacks. Basically they put his iconic spin dash in the air and gave him a new move on the ground.

[canderson]

I also have to go with the mapping of multiple moves/techniques mapped onto one button, such as the Light Ring Dash and the Bounce Bracelet from Sonic Adventure 2, as well as the Boost and Homing Attack in Sonic Unleashed. Although I don't Boost in the air most of the time, it's still no excuse for that design choice. 

[Dizcrybe]

The lack of traction in Sonic Unleashed. I hated it in 3D Blast and I hate it here.

[Tani Coyote]

And so the Lord Sega said, "Make the homing attack and boost useth the same button."
The beta testers said, "But m'lord, it maketh the gameplay so cumbersome."
The Lord Sega smote them and said, "One button shalt cause two attacks," and it was good.

So yes. It really was a very poor choice in hindsight, and I'm glad they eventually saw the error of their ways and separated the buttons again. There's so many buttons on a controller there's no real excuse to have any of them use the same buttons anymore, especially if combinations are used. Avoids a ton of confusion and accidental deaths.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Ogilvie Maurice

[Diogenes]

I honestly didn't have much of a problem with the boost and homing attack being the same button. Took some time to adjust, but no more than for any change in controls, and I don't remember having any serious issue with killing myself due to confusion between the two, thanks to the lock-on.

I guess I'd prefer it the other way, though, since that gives you more control over what action you're doing, but I never saw it as being a real problem.

[Tani Coyote]

I honestly didn't have much of a problem with the boost and homing attack being the same button. Took some time to adjust, but no more than for any change in controls, and I don't remember having any serious issue with killing myself due to confusion between the two, thanks to the lock-on.

I guess I'd prefer it the other way, though, since that gives you more control over what action you're doing, but I never saw it as being a real problem.

 

Well, this did spawn out of the nitpicking topic... which means we're picking at stuff that isn't really so much a big problem, as much as the little details that annoy us. It may not be a game changer like Sonic 06's load times, but for some folks using the same button for both might become an issue.

[-blank-]

I hated how the jump and homing attack were both mapped to different buttons in Unleashed HD. I was so used to how the Adventures did it that to this day it still takes me a bit to get used to the control scheme every time I play Unleashed.

[Blue Blood]

I hated how the jump and homing attack were both mapped to different buttons in Unleashed HD. I was so used to how the Adventures did it that to this day it still takes me a bit to get used to the control scheme every time I play Unleashed.

 

I didn't mind the change. All that I did mind was the God-awful air boost (which if you play right you can avoid getting) and that they changed it back after just one game. They came up with a new control scheme, got us used to it and then undid it all. Somewhat annoying...

[FireBird75]

Pet-peeves? Ok

They're not coins! They are rings! THEY ARE CLEARLY FUCKIN' RINGS!

Complaints about Sonic friends. They aren't going anywhere so you might as well enjoy them. Most of them ain't even that bad.

Complaints about the Boost. Similar to the friends. It ain't going so you might as well enjoy it.  I certainly get a kick out of it. (I guess some people didn't like the Rush games )

Complaints about Dimps. Yeah I get it. Sonic 4 wasn't exactly what we wanted but it wasn't anything (Hell its only real problem is its title)

You do realize Dimps was keeping Sonic alive during the "Dark Age" right? Right? Apparently not. (I swear Dimps knew Sonic better than Sega for a while there)

[Gabz Girl]

When people who actually like Sonic 06 (WTF?) say that it would've been GREAT if all the glitches had been fixed. No, no it wouldn't have!

 

The reason why we hate it so much is not just because of bugs and glitches. The story, loading times, characters, horribly animated real time cutscenes, Silver's gameplay, mach speed stages...there are a dozen problems with this game and they have nothing to do with glitches. Why do they keep defending Sonic 06? As Silver the "pothead" hedgehog would say...

 

"IT'S NO USE!!11"

[Nepenthe]

If you reworked the bounce with actual physics(i.e. the higher you bounce from, the higher you'll go) it can easily be a much better speed running tool than the stomp.

The point of the Stomp in speedrunning the modern games is to kill air time so you can hit the ground and boost off rather than essentially hovering around in one spot as Sonic falls to the ground. A bounce attack, no matter how well-implemented physically, cannot fulfill this purpose because it's going to throw you back in the air again, thus it's not a perfectly equatable replacement for the Stomp in this role.

When people who actually like Sonic 06 (WTF?) say that it would've been GREAT if all the glitches had been fixed. No, no it wouldn't have!

The reason why we hate it so much is not just because of bugs and glitches. The story, loading times, characters, horribly animated real time cutscenes, Silver's gameplay, mach speed stages...there are a dozen problems with this game and they have nothing to do with glitches. Why do they keep defending Sonic 06? As Silver the "pothead" hedgehog would say...

"IT'S NO USE!!11"

While this may be true, I don't think the game is completely bereft of theoretical or working concepts that don't deserve expanding on now that the developers have gotten their shit together, which would be a much more interesting conversation to have than just completely shutting out any opposition with "STOP DEFENDING IT!" You wanna talk about poisoning the well? This is the prime example of it.

[Diogenes]

While this may be true, I don't think the game is completely bereft of theoretical or working concepts that don't deserve expanding on now that the developers have gotten their shit together, which would be a much more interesting conversation to have than just completely shutting out any opposition with "STOP DEFENDING IT!"

Well...like what?

[Blue Blood]

Well...like what?

The level design wasn't always an abomination. I can think of a few areas where they were definitely on to something, which were let down by the controls and other undeniable shortcomings. Then there were plenty of optional upgrades, both canned ones and ones that got used, and as a concept that's a lovely idea that can prove to be really fun when done right.

 

'06 is shit and I'll be the last person to defend it. But so long as we're talking about things that weren't bad right from their conceptualisation, you can bring out such points about almost any game.

[Nepenthe]

Namely the way alternate characters function. I feel Sonic 06 is the only game to attempt what I want from that area, which is being able to expand upon the maneuvers and goals of different characters without completely sacrificing the genre to do so a la other Adventure-esque titles. The hedgehogs are inherently platforming character charged with getting from point A to point B, but Sega takes what is unique about their abilities, goals, and working methods, and caters the level design to those abilities. It's a sweet spot between reskin and Werehog. Nothing feels stagnant or repetitive within the confines of the basic design. This is inherently interesting and worthy of further expansion and improvement if we're going to start utilizing other characters in the future, because nothing kills my "Fuck yeah, I'm playing as Tails/Knuckles/Shadow!" high quicker than realizing "Wait, no I'm actually not. I'm playing as Sonic with a permanent Wisp power attached."

[Kuzu]

The point of the Stomp in speedrunning the modern games is to kill air time so you can hit the ground and boost off rather than essentially hovering around in one spot as Sonic falls to the ground. A bounce attack, no matter how well-implemented physically, cannot fulfill this purpose because it's going to throw you back in the air again, thus it's not a perfectly equatable replacement for the Stomp in this role.

 

Well I'm not much of a Speedrunner, but wouldn't the bounce be able to cover more distance in combination with the air boost.

[Nepenthe]

It's not about covering distance only, but covering distance in the fastest and most efficient manner possible. I imagine it would help with aerial obstacles like platforms and bypassing them outright, but the idea is that you don't want to keep constantly changing your speed by going from air to land and so forth. You'll be losing time. With running in the modern games being the fastest mode of transportation, it is imperative to stick to the ground as much as possible and not let up. The Stomp helps you with this whenever you're thrown in the air or forced to jump over something.

[iDEATH]

It bugs we that in the 3d games where you can play as Knuckles/Rouge, when you climb the walls you glide along them like you're skating on ice or something.

[Kuzu]

It's not about covering distance only, but covering distance in the fastest and most efficient manner possible. I imagine it would help with aerial obstacles like platforms and bypassing them outright, but the idea is that you don't want to keep constantly changing your speed by going from air to land and so forth. You'll be losing time. With running in the modern games being the fastest mode of transportation, it is imperative to stick to the ground as much as possible and not let up. The Stomp helps you with this whenever you're thrown in the air or forced to jump over something.

 

 

Alright I can concede it's a decent speed running tool, but not much to people who aren't into that type of thing which leads back to what Prof. J was saying. Outside of speerunning, it's a fairly bland move with little use outside of context sensitive ones. This can apply to most of the abilities in the Modern games actually, most of them don't find much use outside of their specific areas. Except for the boost ironically enough.

[-blank-]

I didn't mind the change. All that I did mind was the God-awful air boost (which if you play right you can avoid getting) and that they changed it back after just one game. They came up with a new control scheme, got us used to it and then undid it all. Somewhat annoying...

Aw, but I liked the air boost....

[Vertekins]

The shilling and sueification of Sally Acorn in the comics.

 

 

Seriously, what is it with this comic's writers (With the possible exception of Karl Bollers) and their penchant for painting Sally as this perfect or borderline-perfect individual? What is it about this character that inspires this and contributes to writer's inability to portray her in a flawed light without other characters comforting her actions such as Khan? Don't they realize that they're not fooling a lot of the fans and are portraying her in an incredibly unlikeable light when they sueify their pet character?

 

I like Sally. I like her a lot. But her portrayal's in the comics hardly ever do her a favor due to unrealistic emotion and gratuitous character shilling.