Why do people want Sonic Adventure 3?

[SuperClassic]

Yeah. I've never really been too good at that. xP

After 7-years hiatus from SSMB, I really forgot how tough of a crowd is here. x3

Missed you guys!

But really, I'm just guessing that if there ever was a SA3, this'd happen.

Weather we like it(they don't) or we hate it(they love it).

Can't please us all.

That's been made very obvious--

But, I'm cutting my self off here before I get my self in any tight spaces again. ;3

Who is this they you speak of? If it's the critics, than the critics have just as diverse opinions as we do.

So did 06 and it sucked.

06 was a lot more inconsistent, and had many more holes. Bad lip syncing and not so great voice acting was a bit more common back then aswell. The main reason is really because there wasn't a Sonic game like it before, atleast, with a plot like Adventure 2's.

So it's basically nostalgia.

Edited July 20, 2011 by SuperClassic

[Kuzu]

Uh, because this is done with most of the sequential games in the series? We say the classics, the Rushes, Unleashed-style/modern games, the Advances, the Rivals games, and so on. Why is it a problem to consider Adventure games their own style of Sonic game now? I mean, I know you have a bone to pick with the series, but you need to calm down. Seriously. =/

Sequential games are nothing new: the classics, Rush, Unleashed, Advance Rivals, and Adventure at the end of the day there all platformers cut from the same cloth, there are games people prefer I understand, but people act as if the name Sa3 is so important, having tedious levels isn't going to make the game better for anyone, because the bottom line is, it doesn't fit regardless if you enjoyed it or not.

And this is why Sonic Adventure 3 should never happen.

Look, despite Colors playing it safe to an extreme, it doesn't change the fact that it was much better received not only to the general public, but within the fanbase as well. I am very, very happy with how the future looks for Sonic, considering Colors was the first 3D Sonic game I would actually consider "great", rather than "just good", and Generations looks multiple times better. The only thing Adventure has ever done better than what we have now is better 3D platforming, and that's something that can easily be fixed. Make Sonic control better at slow speeds, and a new Adventure game will have nothing to offer that'll make it an improvement.

To be fair Colors only looks good in comparison to everything before it, as a standalone game its good, but nothing really special.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Who is this they you speak of? If it's the critics, than the critics have just as diverse opinions as we do.

Generally speaking, they're a lot less diverse than we are as far as opinions go. They're scorings may be diverse, but the attitude tends to come off no different from each other with a few exceptions.

[Nepenthe]

Sequential games are nothing new: the classics, Rush, Unleashed, Advance Rivals, and Adventure at the end of the day there all platformers cut from the same cloth, there are games people prefer I understand, but people act as if the name Sa3 is so important, having tedious levels isn't going to make the game better for anyone, because the bottom line is, it doesn't fit regardless if you enjoyed it or not.

You really didn't answer my question. At all.

You raved about why people consider the Adventure games their own separate genre. I responded that this isn't the case, rather they're being classified like every other set of sequential games in the series before asking you why in the world you had such a problem with people doing it for the Adventure games. Now you're taking potshots at the name SA3, which is totally irrelevant to this tangent.

Like I said, calm down dude. The Adventure games are not worth this much vitriol, for fuck's sake. You guys are just making me depressed now. =/

[SuperClassic]

Generally speaking, they're a lot less diverse than we are as far as opinions go. They're scorings may be diverse, but the attitude tends to come off no different from each other with a few exceptions.

I think the only thing more diverse than this fanbase is politics, but I'm still not sure about that. Critics aren't a group of people who all share the same opinions like some Sonic fans treat them.

[Kuzu]

You really didn't answer my question. At all.

You raved about why people consider the Adventure games their own separate genre. I responded that this isn't the case, rather they're being classified like every other set of sequential games in the series before asking you why in the world you had such a problem with people doing it for the Adventure games. Now you're taking potshots at the name SA3, which is totally irrelevant to this tangent.

Like I said, calm down dude. The Adventure games are not worth this much vitriol, for fuck's sake. You guys are just making me depressed now. =/

You didn't really ask a question, you made a statement and I calmly responded. And I took shots at the name because along with that what makes those games the exception to everything else that came afterward. I admit they're better than Heroes-06, but still suffer massive problems that people tend to overlook.

[Sami]

To be fair Colors only looks good in comparison to everything before it, as a standalone game its good, but nothing really special.

I disagree. I thought Colors had a lot of charm and used the Wisps really well. Colors is a very, very solid 2D platformer. Hell, I like it more than Sonic 1 and 2.

[The Weeb with No Name]

I wouldn't say they used the wisps THAT well. It was pretty contrived, actually.

[Kuzu]

I disagree. I thought Colors had a lot of charm and used the Wisps really well. Colors is a very, very solid 2D platformer. Hell, I like it more than Sonic 1 and 2.

That's the problem its a 2D platformer in a 3D game, I mean I don't mind the whole 2D/3D perspective but they went overboard with the 2D in Colors, to the point where the 3D was pretty much non-existent.

I still love the game to death, because it has no bullshit like the other 3D entries, but other than the Wisp(Which I admit are awesome additions) it doesn't really add anything.

I wouldn't say they used the wisps THAT well. It was pretty contrived, actually.

Exactly. Good, but nothing really spectacular.

[Nepenthe]

You didn't really ask a question, you made a statement and I calmly responded. And I took shots at the name because along with that what makes those games the exception to everything else that came afterward. I admit they're better than Heroes-06, but still suffer massive problems that people tend to overlook.

The last thing I'm going to say about this before it devolves and derails any further is that you're really not reading my posts because I did ask a question-

"Why is it a problem to consider Adventure games their own style of Sonic game now?"

-to which you completely avoided, twice, in a generic, repetitious rant about the shortcomings of the Adventure series and its fans. Seriously. -.-+

A more relevant remark, I do agree with Jayhawker. The most versatile Wisp of the bunch is Yellow Drill because it allowed you to cut through water efficiently. What the Wisp system suffered from is from overspecialization, with each one being relegated to specific obstacles and specific areas with specific time limits instead of allowing their base abilities to be used strategically by the player in a variety of situations ala Kameo.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I think the only thing more diverse than this fanbase is politics, but I'm still not sure about that. Critics aren't a group of people who all share the same opinions like some Sonic fans treat them.

Not all of them do, but a great majority of them do regarding how a Sonic game should be: going really fast. Within a lot of these, you will find them bashing Sonic's friends, parroting for the umpteenth time how 3D hasn't done Sonic well, and how Sonic should be about going fast, and putting the Classics on a high pedestal in comparison with whatever game being discussed within the critic's reviews. These are mostly the things people group them together for.

Fans would not group the critics if they didn't have such similar opinions as one another. Granted, some will enjoy a game more than others, but the above points I made are almost guaranteed to be within the reviews, and I would be more than happy to go fishing for those very reviews (and even previews) if you so much as dare me to look for them.

Edited July 20, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

The last thing I'm going to say about this before it devolves and derails any further is that you're really not reading my posts because I did ask a question-

"Why is it a problem to consider Adventure games their own style of Sonic game now?"

-to which you completely avoided, twice, in a generic, repetitious rant about the shortcomings of the Adventure series and its fans. Seriously. -.-+

I did respond to that by saying, and I quote:

Sequential games are nothing new: the classics, Rush, Unleashed, Advance Rivals, and Adventure at the end of the day there all platformers cut from the same cloth

Perhaps I should've worded it better, but I meant to say is: The adventure games AREN'T their own style though, everything that's been done in those games have been carried over to the modern games aside from the extra characters. 06 is as close to a third adventure game yet people refuse to acknowledge it as such, which is why I scratch my head and ask what benefit could an Sa3 have when everything that those games had have been in at least ONE modern game, or least have been incorporated into the modern games.

[Sami]

Perhaps I should've worded it better, but I meant to say is: The adventure games AREN'T their own style though, everything that's been done in those games have been carried over to the modern games aside from the extra characters. 06 is as close to a third adventure game yet people refuse to acknowledge it as such, which is why I scratch my head and ask what benefit could an Sa3 have when everything that those games had have been in at least ONE modern game, or least have been incorporated into the modern games.

But the extra characters are a huge factor in the Adventure series' identity.

Think of it this way, if those games didn't have their own style, you wouldn't hate them nearly as much as you do because they would be too similar to the other games for that judgment to be made.

Edit:

And regarding the wisps, I don't consider the specialization of them a problem. Their purpose was to compliment the level design, and they served that purpose well.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Dissident

[Kuzu]

But the extra characters are a huge factor in the Adventure series' identity.

Think of it this way, if those games didn't have their own style, you wouldn't hate them nearly as much as you do because they would be too similar to the other games for that judgment to be made.

Then that's it then, when people ask for Sonic Adventure 3 its really just translating to: "Make someone other than Sonic playable" I just wish people didn't hide that under the guise of the the games being better than anything we got now, because if Tails or Knuckles were playable in Unleashed/Colors I'd doubt there'd be much complaining.

[Dejablue]

Derp they suffer "massive" problems because they are old games Just like Colors would have suffered massive problems if it were made in 2001. Sonic Team went into a dip no doubt but they're improving. It's not like Adventure style game play is genetically bad.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Dejablue

[Kuzu]

Derp they suffer "massive" problems because they are old games Just like Colors would have suffered massive problems if it were made in 2001. Sonic Team went into a dip no doubt but they're improving. It's not like Adventure style game play is genetically bad.

Never said it was bad, there are just things I would prefer NOT to come back, and the alt. gameplay is one of them, but then again if you take that away its not really an adventure game anymore is it?

[Sami]

Then that's it then, when people ask for Sonic Adventure 3 its really just translating to: "Make someone other than Sonic playable" I just wish people didn't hide that under the guise of the the games being better than anything we got now, because if Tails or Knuckles were playable in Unleashed/Colors I'd doubt there'd be much complaining.

But it isn't. Look, I hate Adventure just as much as you do, but you're really grasping here, man. :/

Differences between Adventure and what we have now:

- More involved storyline

- Slower pacing

- Segregation of styles (speed here, platforming here, exploration here)

- Less spotlight on Sonic

- More focus on "bringing Sonic into our world"

These five things radically change the feel of the game, and that's what people want. For me, these changes are for the worse, and that's why I'll always be against SA3. Not because of what you're saying.

Edit: I need to clarify here: My overall point is that these five things change the tone of the game a lot. The only factors I really dislike are the segregation of styles and more focus on realism (in SA2's case, anyway). I also dislike when some random new character hogs (pun not intended) all the spotlight.

Derp they suffer "massive" problems because they are old games Just like Colors would have suffered massive problems if it were made in 2001. Sonic Team went into a dip no doubt but they're improving. It's not like Adventure style game play is genetically bad.

Yeah, no. Unleashed had mixed reception even within the fanbase, while the general public sees it as mediocre at best. The Adventure series suffers from idiotic design flaws that also plague Unleashed, and it proves that Adventure and Adventure 2 would have sucked just as bad had they been released today.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Dissident

[Dejablue]

Not sure what you mean by bringing Sonic into our world. There are Humans in Unleashed. And even if there are no humans in cut scenes I just assume there on Earth somewhere.

[Sami]

Not sure what you mean by bringing Sonic into our world. There are Humans in Unleashed. And even if there are no humans in cut scenes I just assume there on Earth somewhere.

I hope you've got time on your hands.

Also check my edited post.

[Nepenthe]

And regarding the wisps, I don't consider the specialization of them a problem. Their purpose was to compliment the level design, and they served that purpose well.

They complimented the level design because the platforming segments were so laser-focused on catering to the Wisps' abilities that it took away any strategy and meaningful exploration, and in this regard, the overall system is bland. It's very analogous to Heroes in this regard: All of the color-coding completely removes any challenge and thought as to which characters to use at which points, adding to the overall tedium. A little bit of length on the leash would've made a world of difference.

[Dejablue]

Can you really be sure about that? Given the gigantic gap between then and now? I don't think you can.

[Sami]

They complimented the level design because the platforming segments were so laser-focused on catering to the Wisps' abilities that it took away any strategy and meaningful exploration, and in this regard, the overall system is bland. It's very analogous to Heroes in this regard: All of the color-coding completely removes any challenge and thought as to which characters to use at which points, adding to the overall tedium. A little bit of length on the leash would've made a world of difference.

Again, I disagree. I had a lot of fun exploring by trying to figure out what wisp I should use and where. There were plenty of shorcuts and alternate paths that aren't completely in your face.

Can you really be sure about that? Given the gigantic gap between then and now? I don't think you can.

When is "then"? '08? I wouldn't call that a "giant gap". '01? I think I can, considering Unleashed essentially does it for me.

[Dejablue]

no i mean between the release date of Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Colors. Even between Unleashed and Colors somebody at Sonic Team decided to fix whatever problems the predecessor had. Maybe I'm misreading your post? Or you misread mine. All I'm saying is Sonic's foray into the realm of 3D was still in its infant stages back then. Problems were inevitable

Edited July 20, 2011 by Dejablue

[Nepenthe]

Again, I disagree. I had a lot of fun exploring by trying to figure out what wisp I should use and where. There were plenty of shorcuts and alternate paths that aren't completely in your face.

The overwhelming majority of paths are directly proceeded by the appropriate Wisp to use, and regardless, only one Wisp works the best if not exclusively on one obstacle. This should have been undercut to the max if not outright, but we'll be forced to agree to disagree on this. =P

[Kuzu]

- More involved storyline

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, and can be applied to any game. Its when it gets to 06 levels is when its absurd.

- Slower pacing

Fair enough.

- Segregation of styles (speed here, platforming here, exploration here)

I don't get what you mean by this? Are you referring to the alt. styles?

- Less spotlight on Sonic

Once again, not a bad thing. Sonic is the main character I know, but he isn't the only one. The spotlight should be split evenly, and no one should be shoved in the background neither Sonic or anyone else. This is something I actually give the games credit for.

- More focus on "bringing Sonic into our world"

I read your post from Retro, and yes that too was a minor issue with me.

I have my own reasons for disliking the games, mainly because of the Alt. Styles.