Why do people want Sonic Adventure 3?

[Diogenes]

Some of it certainly is. Eggman is amazing as always, and Sonic and Tails' relationship has never been better.

But some of the jokes are just...bad. Not even in the groaner sense, but like...uncomfortably unfunny.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I understand the story seeming incomplete, infact, the game seems to have some leftover lines. But the writing, in my opinion is pretty good.

After the narm and crap writing we got in Heroes, ShTH, and Sonic 06, of course Colors is going to be seen as good after not having a good plot in so long. But let's not overvalue it, as we know they could do far better than what they did in Colors. FAR better.

[Kuzu]

I understand the story seeming incomplete, infact, the game seems to have some leftover lines. But the writing, in my opinion is pretty good.

Good writing doesn't really hold up if the story is put together like shit. And as much as I loved Colors, its story was put together like crap, not as bad as 06 but still pretty bad.

[Voyant]

As far as gameplay flaws go, the rare 3D areas were one flaw. However, I have many more: The boost is tacked on unnecessarily, gimped and useless in lieu of the game's more exploratory-oriented nature. Jumping was also a noted flaw across the board, specifically the double jump which tended to act better as a hovering maneuver than one to gain extra height. The platforming in general was okay; I like that it was so vertically-oriented, but it was barely interesting or engaging with the exception of the gravity gimmick in Asteroid Coaster. Locations were also underutilized, interesting areas like Planet Wisp's forest serving merely as background fodder whereas Unleashed relished in its locations in spades. Also, Frenzy was a bitch to control. Srsly.

Despite all of this, I don't necessarily consider Colors bad. Merely boring and safe, a placebo really. Sonic Team can do much, much better.

This is pretty much sums up my feelings of colors...its was great while it lasted, but it lacked any thrill factor... ]=

I didn't want to play it over and over again like I do Unleashed to this day. The control of Sonic in 3D was stripped away from you a well, Drifting was sooooo boring...

Sweet Mountain Act 2 drifting sections was just..uuuhhhgggg...

Edited July 20, 2011 by Voyant

[Kuzu]

After the narm and crap writing we got in Heroes, ShTH, and Sonic 06, of course Colors is going to be seen as good after not having a good plot in so long. But let's not overvalue it, as we know they could do far better than what they did in Colors. FAR better.

To be entirely fair, no one gives Sonic credit for his stories, not even the really good ones like the Secret Rings, or Black Knight so at least Sega know no one cares about the story anymore.

[pppp]

...and Storybook games continue to be a pinnacle of storytelling for the 3D installments.

The Black Knight one was actually quite enjoyable i'll give you that,but Secret Rings?:

I'll let Roger speak for me:

Not to mention the corniest moment ever in a Sonic Game:

Seriously,the 1st time i saw this i thought we were gonna get bestiality again

[Nepenthe]

The Black Knight one was actually quite enjoyable i'll give you that,but Secret Rings?:

I'll let Roger speak for me:

Not to mention the corniest moment ever in a Sonic Game:

Seriously,the 1st time i saw this i thought we were gonna get bestiality again

=( I wish you didn't illustrate points through YouTube videos. Being on the phone while running an errand makes it difficult to go through them and respond properly right now.

I will say this though. Calling that kiss an act of bestiality is a tired overreaction, a complete misunderstanding of what bestiality even is, and an insult to Sonic's character, and I wish I could reach through the screen and smack everyone who calls it such with a ruler.

[Kuzu]

=( I wish you didn't illustrate points through YouTube videos. Being on the phone while running an errand makes it difficult to go through them and respond properly right now.

I will say this though. Calling that kiss an act of bestiality is a tired overreaction, a complete misunderstanding of what bestiality even is, and an insult to Sonic's character, and I wish I could reach through the screen and smack everyone who calls it such with a ruler.

For me its not even bestiality. I understand the kiss in the context of the story, but still....ugh, I mean my reaction was "How the hell did we go from being a badass who kicks military ass, to getting revived snow white style by a princess?" I mean its so over the top, and un-Sonic like is what pissed me off the most.

[pppp]

I mean my reaction was "How the hell did we go from being a badass who kicks military ass, to getting revived snow white style by a princess?" I mean its so over the top, and un-Sonic like is what pissed me off the most.

This.Thanks Shadic

[Kuzu]

This.Thanks Shadic

No prob, you could explain yourself better just saying.

[pppp]

No prob, you could explain yourself better just saying.

Well it's 4 am over here and my energy for the day is almost run out so i have an excuse

[WhoZ]

Not that we actually want "Sonic Adventure 3" but more like we want Sonic games that offered the same kind of gameplay style and features as SA1 and SA2.

For me, I miss character select and their stories that all tie together, the mission based levels, and adventure fields(which we have in Unleashed).

"The way the DC era Sonic Adventure games played" is all I believe we're really asking for. Not an actual "Sonic Adventure 3".

[Kuzu]

Not that we actually want "Sonic Adventure 3" but more like we want Sonic games that offered the same kind of gameplay style and features as SA1 and SA2.

For me, I miss character select and their stories that all tie together, the mission based levels, and adventure fields(which we have in Unleashed).

"The way the DC era Sonic Adventure games played" is all I believe we're really asking for. Not an actual "Sonic Adventure 3".

[WhoZ]

So you're perfectly fine with more tedious treasure hunting, pointless third person shooters, and more fishing levels.....really?

Edited July 20, 2011 by WhoZ

[Blacklightning]

Yyep~

I mean really, all those "tedious" elements are what made the games alot of fun for some of us. For alot of us, thats what we all started off with.

Bringing all that back(along with chao gardens!) would most definitively satisfy the "SA3" crowd.

The problem here is that it doesn't satisfy anyone who's simply looking for a good game out of Sonic, and mixing and matching several unrelated, inconsistent gameplay styles and arbitarily juggling between them doesn't exactly make for a particularly good game for anyone except the relatively naive, niche market who honestly believes it still works. You'll have to forgive me for being blunt, but that comes off as extremely self-centred to me - as a Sonic fan, I would get no pleasure out of a game so personalized if relatively few other people would ever enjoy it. Does that not come off as unfair in your eyes? Surely there are so many other games you could play if you were after gimmicks so completely irrelevant to Sonic as a whole.

[Kuzu]

Yyep~

I mean really, all those "tedious" elements are what made the games alot of fun for some of us. For alot of us, thats what we all started off with.

Bringing all that back(along with chao gardens!) would most definitively satisfy the "SA3" crowd.

*scratch the fishing*

Now, because all of the "SA3" talking... I feel like playing SA2.

Please, excuse me. =3

I'm sorry, but this sounds incredibly selfish, Rather than make a new game that gives(Almost) EVERYBODY what they want, you want a game that is EXACTLY like the original in every way shape and form. I hate to break it to you but almost no one liked those damned stages and even if you did, you'd have to be stupid to think it fits into the Sonic games and would be a good addition. My first Sonic game was SA2 and it was the game that got me into the franchise and I still hated those stages with a fucking passion and I was 8 years old thinking that.

Sonic ISN'T a third person shooter or treasure hunters, its a PLATFORMER, you go from A-B That's. IT.

I mean damn it was those same damn playstyles that got everyone not Sonic kicked out of the main games, why do you want to give the critics to hate Sonic's friends even more ammunition.

[Nepenthe]

Late considering the current turn of the conversation, but I still feel compelled to respond now that I can sit down.

The Black Knight one was actually quite enjoyable i'll give you that,but Secret Rings?:

I'll let Roger speak for me:

Not to mention the corniest moment ever in a Sonic Game:

Seriously,the 1st time i saw this i thought we were gonna get bestiality again

Really? This is your dissertation? This is a comedy skit, and in 55 seconds I've already spotted two egregious problems with its examination of the story:

1. Sonic hasn't always had Shahra. She only came to him in a time of need when Erazor started mucking things up. She calls Sonic Master simply because that's how Genie legend works; whoever summons the Genie effectively owns it.

2. Erazor was actually trying to shoot Sharha but Sonic intervened. When Erazor realized this, he improvised and used the arrow's effects to blackmail Sonic into doing all the work for him despite the intention to kill him anyways. In other words, he acted like a competent villain.

The overwhelming majority of the middle is either average potshots at gameplay misaligning with narrative which happens all the time or making light of the fact that it is your usual journey to gather the MacGuffin which is a Sonic game staple- not worth bothering with either way. When they finally get to Erazor:

3. Nowhere is it stated that the Rings on their own can destroy him. I'm not even sure what that's referencing; he needs the rings to become all-powerful.

4. Shahra's confliction at the end is merely foreshadowing for the relationship she has with Erazor. We know that he has some level of power over her considering the fact that she can't undo his spell. She also specifically states that she "wants to be back with him." Also, key points in the plot emphasize that she clearly knows about Erazor's intent to some degree regardless. Whatever the extent of the relationship, the two have a definite connection which is potentially damning to her actions, so much so that it's only undone with a wish. The video completely glosses over this.

5. Shahra's sacrifice is pretty much supposed to work as a parallel to the events in the beginning of the game.

6. In the game, Erazor states that he himself is immortal. This has no bearing on the mortality of other genies, the big elephant in the room being the Rogues' ancestors. And once again, Erazor's more powerful than Shahra anyways. It's not surprising that he could kill her.

Aside from your insistence that the end is the corniest moment in the games, (to which I disagree and point you to Adventure-era acting in general, especially Tails'), do you have any serious points to make? Seriously, that first video was a bigger disappointment than Generations' level list. =/

For me its not even bestiality. I understand the kiss in the context of the story, but still....ugh, I mean my reaction was "How the hell did we go from being a badass who kicks military ass, to getting revived snow white style by a princess?" I mean its so over the top, and un-Sonic like is what pissed me off the most.

Physically capable males getting revived via a show of affection is one of the oldest tropes ever, the classic example being Beauty and the Beast, nor is it "over the top," at least not in comparison to the rest of the game...or hell, even this entire franchise.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Nepenthe

[WhoZ]

I'm sorry, but this sounds incredibly selfish, Rather than make a new game that gives(Almost) EVERYBODY what they want, you want a game that is EXACTLY like the original in every way shape and form. I hate to break it to you but almost no one liked those damned stages and even if you did, you'd have to be stupid to think it fits into the Sonic games and would be a good addition. My first Sonic game was SA2 and it was the game that got me into the franchise and I still hated those stages with a fucking passion and I was 8 years old thinking that.

Sonic ISN'T a third person shooter or treasure hunters, its a PLATFORMER, you go from A-B That's. IT.

I mean damn it was those same damn playstyles that got everyone not Sonic kicked out of the main games, why do you want to give the critics to hate Sonic's friends even more ammunition.

o,o

Selfish isn't the way I meant to sound, but all I was getting at is what the "Sonic Adventure 3 fans" wanted.

I mean really, this isn't on the subject of every new sonic game being this way. This is a subject of making a new Sonic Adventure.

Yes, yes. We understand that Knuckles treasure hunting, Tails's shooting, and Bigs fishing was annoying.

But that is what the Adventure games consisted of. Wouldn't it make sense if SA3 consisted of that aswell?

This isn't what I personally want, this is what WE as "Sonic Adventure" fans might want.

plain and simple.

[Blacklightning]

Yes, yes. We understand that Knuckles treasure hunting, Tails's shooting, and Bigs fishing was annoying.

But that is what the Adventure games consisted of. Wouldn't it make sense if SA3 consisted of that aswell?

If SA3 is inherently bound to have pointless alternate gameplay, then SA3 is inherently doomed to critical failure. I need not put it in any more detail than that - any supplementing arguments I could give, I've already given.

Just for the record too - if you're playing Devil's Advocate, in future it'd really help to make it a tad more obvious.

[Kuzu]

o,o

Selfish isn't the way I meant to sound, but all I was getting at is what the "Sonic Adventure 3 fans" wanted.

I mean really, this isn't on the subject of every new sonic game being this way. This is a subject of making a new Sonic Adventure.

Yes, yes. We understand that Knuckles treasure hunting, Tails's shooting, and Bigs fishing was annoying.

But that is what the Adventure games consisted of. Wouldn't it make sense if SA3 consisted of that aswell?

This isn't what I personally want, this is what WE as "Sonic Adventure" fans might want.

plain and simple.

Well I'm going to be simple and to the point, FUCK THOSE FANS, seriously if they can't take off the nostalgia goggles and realize everything that was wrong with those games then sucks to be them, shit leads like that lead to Sonic 4.

Like Scar said, if Sa3 IS made, then its going to be in the style of Unleashed/Colors/Generations(which are based off of SA2).

What constitutes to being an "Adventure" game anyway, that's like referring to Mario 64 and Mario Galaxy as two completely different genres.

Seriously why is it when talking about Sonic Adventure 3, fans act as if its a completely different game from anything else in the series, what separates it from everything else?

[SuperClassic]

If SA3 is inherently bound to have pointless alternate gameplay, then SA3 is inherently doomed to critical failure. I need not put it in any more detail than that - any supplementing arguments I could give, I've already given.

Just for the record too - if you're playing Devil's Advocate, in future it'd really help to make it a tad more obvious.

This is true, SA3 would be panned even if the alternate gameplay styles weren't broken, I think the critics and some of the fans have made it clear that they want main series Sonic games that do not have things irrelevant to Sonic's gameplay style. I agree to an extent with this, but I want to see more of what Colors and Generations are doing, in Colors' case, it is taking Sonic's gameplay style and adding a bit of a spice to it, the wisps. Generations is taking Sonic's new gameplay and remaking zones from the past games.(this isn't exactly directed towards anyone, btw)

Well I'm going to be simple and to the point, FUCK THOSE FANS, seriously if they can't take off the nostalgia goggles and realize everything that was wrong with those games then sucks to be them, shit leads like that lead to Sonic 4.

Like Scar said, if Sa3 IS made, then its going to be in the style of Unleashed/Colors/Generations(which are based off of SA2).

What constitutes to being an "Adventure" game anyway, that's like referring to Mario 64 and Mario Galaxy as two completely different genres.

Seriously why is it when talking about Sonic Adventure 3, fans act as if its a completely different game from anything else in the series, what separates it from everything else?

Because SA2 had an "awesome" story.

Edited July 20, 2011 by SuperClassic

[Nepenthe]

What constitutes to being an "Adventure" game anyway, that's like referring to Mario 64 and Mario Galaxy as two completely different genres.

Seriously why is it when talking about Sonic Adventure 3, fans act as if its a completely different game from anything else in the series, what separates it from everything else?

Uh, because this is done with most of the sequential games in the series? We say the classics, the Rushes, Unleashed-style/modern games, the Advances, the Rivals games, and so on. Why is it a problem to consider Adventure games their own style of Sonic game now? I mean, I know you have a bone to pick with the series, but you need to calm down. Seriously. =/

[Kuzu]

Because SA2 had an "awesome" story.

So did 06 and it sucked.

[WhoZ]

Just for the record too - if you're playing Devil's Advocate, in future it'd really help to make it a tad more obvious.

Yeah. I've never really been too good at that. xP

After 7-years hiatus from SSMB, I really forgot how tough of a crowd is here. x3

Missed you guys!

But really, I'm just guessing that if there ever was a SA3, this'd happen.

Weather we like it(they don't) or we hate it(they love it).

Can't please us all.

That's been made very obvious--

But, I'm cutting my self off here before I get my self in any tight spaces again. ;3

[Sami]

o,o

Selfish isn't the way I meant to sound, but all I was getting at is what the "Sonic Adventure 3 fans" wanted.

I mean really, this isn't on the subject of every new sonic game being this way. This is a subject of making a new Sonic Adventure.

Yes, yes. We understand that Knuckles treasure hunting, Tails's shooting, and Bigs fishing was annoying.

But that is what the Adventure games consisted of. Wouldn't it make sense if SA3 consisted of that aswell?

This isn't what I personally want, this is what WE as "Sonic Adventure" fans might want.

plain and simple.

And this is why Sonic Adventure 3 should never happen.

Look, despite Colors playing it safe to an extreme, it doesn't change the fact that it was much better received not only to the general public, but within the fanbase as well. I am very, very happy with how the future looks for Sonic, considering Colors was the first 3D Sonic game I would actually consider "great", rather than "just good", and Generations looks multiple times better. The only thing Adventure has ever done better than what we have now is better 3D platforming, and that's something that can easily be fixed. Make Sonic control better at slow speeds, and a new Adventure game will have nothing to offer that'll make it an improvement.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Dissident