Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Aquaslash]

And now I've caught up, and I see Chaos and Tornado have overall said the same thing I said, except smarter.  I love those guys, in a "I totally used all my likes on their posts" kind of way.

 

Now some other points I wanted to comment on:

 

Basically what I see happening is that because Archie didn't have its legal shit altogether straight, Sega is putting a chokehold on the series direction when it was finally gaining traction on its own.

 

This seems to be the bottom line behind all the mess that's going on in the present.  It's a damned shame too.  I was kinda hyped for some of the stuff that was to come.  It'll be nothing but a travesty if some of these characters are gone for good.  All we can do is play the waiting game.

 

Also re: character usage.  I saw complaints about Blaze and Chaotix not getting enough focus.  A bit silly if you, especially since Chaotix is the focus of the current Universe arc.  These characters are third tier characters at best, and hardly see usage in the games themselves.  I think they get as much focus as they need to get.  The argument about the comic exclusive characters overshadowing the game characters is also stupid, because as of late, the comic has been using characters the games have just outright abandoned.  The Battle Bird Armada, the Babylon Rogues, Mighty, Tails Doll, Bark, Bean, Metal God Damn Knuckles^TM.  If anything, the non game characters have taken a backseat as of late.  We're only just now seeing bunnie again after god knows how long.  Antoine is still in a coma, even Metal Sally's been MAI for a bit.

 

Re: Sonic losing.  To have Sonic win each and every single battle turns him into a boring invincible hero, and that's just uncool.  The Autobots often lose.  The Power Rangers often lose.  Hell, the Vault Hunters in the Borderlands series had some major setbacks in the second game, and one of them was even killed.  Yet at the end of all those shows/games/movies, the hero groups end up the victors.  To have Sonic potentially curbstomping everyone into oblivion, while hilarious in Generations, is horribly bad writing and yet another sign of SEGA's "genius".  Thankfully, Flynn and the gang have managed to find good enough workarounds for that so that there's a sense of struggle on the heroes' point of view.

 

That's all for now.  I'm sure I'll have more to say another day.

[Komodin]

I'm starting to think whether or not any crossover stuff should put in the crossover thread, that way no one can interrupt this little debate that's been going on for a couple of pages.

 

To be honest, at this point, I'd rather talk about the (awesome) upcoming crossover; this little debate is rather draining to read...

[Kuzu]

To be honest, at this point, I'd rather talk about the (awesome) upcoming crossover; this little debate is rather draining to read...

 

 

Well considering the crossover isn't out yet, it gives us something to talk about.

[Aquaslash]

As far as I know, the Underground story was not shelved, but merely postponed.  It's still gonna be one issue, just later on.

[-Mark-]

You know what, I'm just gonna step down from this discussion. This topic has basically become two sides typing paragraph after paragraph at each other as to why the Archie comics are good/ bad and why the other person is wrong for thinking differently.

 

No matter how solid an argument each side puts together, the other will just shrug and laugh it off as narrow-minded, blind bullshit and that they're pulling out one poor, invalid excuse after another. That goes both ways. 

 

We're never going to see eye to eye, so I at least am just going to back down and agree to disagree. 

Edited February 5, 2013 by -Mark-

[Spin Attaxx]

So now that the fallout's settled, how 'bout those "Roboticised Masters"? Do you think that they'll be Sonic's friends roboticised into Robot Masters?

Edited February 5, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Because I'm stubborn and love debating to damn much...

You know what, I'm just gonna step down from this discussion. This topic has basically become two sides typing paragraph after paragraph at each other as to why the Archie comics are good/ bad and why the other person is wrong for thinking differently.

 

No matter how solid an argument each side puts together, the other will just shrug and laugh it off as narrow-minded, blind bullshit and that they're pulling out one poor, invalid excuse after another. That goes both ways. 

 

We're never going to see eye to eye, so I at least am just going to back down and agree to disagree. 

Arrogant this may sound from me, but I'm pretty sure my side of the debate was listening to yours. The whole thing was about how different the comics were from the source material, but here's the difference: your side was arguing how this was a bad thing and how this unfamiliarity would be better off as something else while my side was saying that this stuffs been done in and outside the franchise itself and we see absolutely no problem with it.

I mean, really you attributed Sonic X to be closer to the games than the comics. And we've just thrown example after example after example of not just Sonic Cartoons but other franchises that do this, and you've been shrugging our points more than we have yours.

[Sonictrainer]

Preview Time!

 

 

Edited February 6, 2013 by Son1ctrainer

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Man, all this waiting for the ending is killing me. I seriously want to know what happens at the result of Endangered Species.

 

Probably the very thing I never wanted to happen regarding Lien-da, but it's still worth looking into.

[Komodin]

Hey, it's quite nice to see that Metal Knuckles is getting some attention, even if it's currently done through the use of a plant-like Venom-esque robot.

[Phos]

The way this was drawn makes it appear as though he's shooting letters out of his mouth at Sonic.  

[The-Master-Board]

You know what, I'm just gonna step down from this discussion. This topic has basically become two sides typing paragraph after paragraph at each other as to why the Archie comics are good/ bad and why the other person is wrong for thinking differently.

 

No matter how solid an argument each side puts together, the other will just shrug and laugh it off as narrow-minded, blind bullshit and that they're pulling out one poor, invalid excuse after another. That goes both ways. 

 

We're never going to see eye to eye, so I at least am just going to back down and agree to disagree. 

Or you're bowing out because our side of the argument actually put up overwhelming amounts of valid point-after-point argument to which your sides only response was "The comics are crap because they are not the games", which was a losing battle from the beggining because the comics are not the games and never should be treated as such.

 

Really? SonicX adheres more to the games than the comic? If you really think that then it probably is best to end the debate now because I can't see any way to reason with that. Wow.

[DarkLight]

Wouldn't y'know? Another crossover cover and this time it's inspired by the American boxart for Mega Man 10.

 

Goddamn, Spaz just loves jizzin' my pants.

Edited February 6, 2013 by DarkLightDragon

[Kuzu]

Or you're bowing out because our side of the argument actually put up overwhelming amounts of valid point-after-point argument to which your sides only response was "The comics are crap because they are not the games", which was a losing battle from the beggining because the comics are not the games and never should be treated as such.

 

Really? SonicX adheres more to the games than the comic? If you really think that then it probably is best to end the debate now because I can't see any way to reason with that. Wow.

 

 

I like how when he concedes,  you still have to be a condescending asshole and try to get the last word. Let it go dammit.

[Badnik Mechanic]

So today my local comic book guy actually had issue 245 and I picked it up. Now this isn't the 'a review of...' kind of thing I used to do because frankly I just... couldn't be bothered... and also. I don't think that other than the issue with the pink wolf forest patrol, there was really anything worth commenting on that I haddn't said already.

 

However this issue really bugged me... a lot of stuff had me re-reading it in case I'd misread something or if I'd skippedd a page. The way this storyline has appeared and the contents of it bug me a lot, to the point where in one case I think theres a possible case of plagarism to be had.

 

In the last issue it was suggested that there was a minor crisis at archie as the issue had obvious flow problems and it felt like it had been heavilly edited for reasons of a Sega and legal matter that we don't understand.

 

If there were any doubt... this issue more or less removes it.

 

So issue should be quite a good one... if you get past Knuckles yelling BRING THEM BACK! in every pannel, it's a good long action sequence which is quite a rough and brutal fight. However why Sonic doesn't knock out Gnasher/the dog things instead of building a kennel for them I don't know.

 

But... why exactly do we have this?

 

But Hogfather? You just said you liked it?

 

Yes I did, but when you look at the wider picture, the issue looks very out of place and almost like it belongs in a totally different arc.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but... aren't we supposed to be fighting the Death Egg? No... well... Naugus (Bat Faced Monkey Man)? Is he still having a breakdown? Last time we saw him wasn't he posessing someone and... what exactly is going on with that? It's like the entire 2012 run of comics has randomly gone off on one and for some reason we're now here for no explanation other than 'Sonic just happened to arrive.'

 

Even these villains feel out of place. This purple guy, yeah he's tricked the echidnas... for... a very very weak reason, even the characters in the issue remark that for what he's done it makes very little sense.

 

And then for some reason, plant monster turns up... Really! Again!? How many times has this enemy appeared in the last 2 years? It was even on of the free Comic book day specials if my memory is working. Why!?

 

This character adds nothing to this issue other than unessesary padding. We have 2 pages near the start where it doesn't do anything but offer backstory on events that are incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. Then it comes back for a whole 2 pages, why? So the purple guy can get away.

 

Then at the end of the strip we get 'Not Metal Mega-Man Sonic' arriving for... some reason which isn't explained?

 

Is it just me, or is there some Plagiarism in this issue?

 

And then theres something else that bugs me... huge chunks of this issue feel like they're been lifted from the first part of World War Hulk, the fight between Knuckles and the purple guy are shockingly similar to what happens in World War Hulk, and even the story itself is VERY similar, the backstory to the events are also amazingly similar too.

 

Don't know what I mean? Well... take a look.

 

I no longer own the comic so I can't directly check the exact sequences, but this is the long and short of it. World War Hulk, this series started because in a previous story ('Planet Hulk'), the Hulk was on another planet and was in love with a woman who also loved in, for the first time in decades he was respected and loved for being the Hulk. He was happy and at peace... The planet itself was inhabited by powerful creatures who were a lot like him. Not like 'the hulk' but had they been on earth they would have been treated similar to how he had been... Hulk finally felt like he was in a world were he could belong. He was happy and at peace... more than he's ever been.

 

However... A powerful explosion destroyed the entire planet, the cause of the explosion was the reactor inside the spaceship which brought him to it being damaged by children playing. from the spacehship which brought him to it. Killing everyone, even the woman he loved.

 

Hulk blames the people who made the space ship and tricked him into coming to the planet for whats happened. Those people include Black Bolt, Reed Richards, Tony Stark and... .. ... someone else who escapes me right now.

 

Hulk returns to earth and lands on the moon, were he targets Black Bolt, one of only a handful of heroes who actually stood a chance of being able to defeat the Hulk. Enraged by the loss of his loved ones, Hulk fights Black Bolt and despite Black Bolt using his Sonic Powers Hulk utterly destroys him.

 

Now lets look at this issue and the build up.

 

The Echidnas live on a far away land away from the the normal mobius population. Knuckles who is in love and has a family also lives there. For many years Knuckles was alone, considered the last of his kind and a bit of an outcast. He now has a city full of people who are like him in terms of both his species and mannerisms.

 

Suddenly, following the appearance of a giant space ship (the Death Egg) a villain tricks/destroys the entire echidna population. Knuckles loses everyone he loves, his friends, his family and the woman he loves. How does the comic show this? By having a scene with children in class. Not playing, but we still have the children factor.

 

Knuckles finds the guy who did it, who actually stands a chance at beating him one on one and they fight. The villain uses his sonic powers to battle him. But Knuckles is so enraged by the loss of his loved ones that he overcomes the blasts and he's able to destroy the villain in a fight.

 

Now look at the design of the villain in this Sonic strip. Whilst the guy is coloured purple... take a look at what white thing going over his chest... It's almost exactly the same as Black Bolts costume!

 

Even some of the artwork is so similar. Whilst the fight in world war hulk is shorter, theres a scene in which the Hulk recovers and leaps at Black Bolt in a full page spread, whilst it's not a full page spread, there is a similar pannel with Knuckles. But more odd, when Black Bolt launches his initial attack against the Hulk, it's very similar to some of the pages in issue 245.

[The-Master-Board]

I like how when he concedes, you still have to be a condescending asshole and try to get the last word. Let it go dammit.

 

I like the way you think loading a post with insults will get somebody to let a subject go rather than just not commenting and letting it go.

Top quality thinking on your part.

 

You might wanna go back and re-read that comment too because you're throwing around "having the last word" so lightly yet that comment was full of having the last word.

It was basically "I have no rebuttle for the mass amount of points that I got countered with so I'm going to act like I'm above the debate now by leaving but not without leaving the last word which nobody can respond to now because I said I'm out".

No.

Where exactly is it a sacred rule that we have to drop the discussion just because somebody gave up, that it is somehow taboo or untasteful to still call someone out on stupid comments they made and to continue the debate?

You're not untouchable just because you act like you're no longer involved. Things were said, a discussion started, the discussion can still go on.

Life would be a pretty funny place if we got in over our heads then were all of a sudden given immunity just because we bailed out.

You're talking complete poppycock with a guttermouth, but I don't wanna talk about the subject anymore so that's that. (See what I did there  )

Edited February 6, 2013 by The-Master-Board

[Carbo]

Drop it, and the condescending attitude.

Get back on topic.

[Phos]

Hogfather reminded me that they're bringing up yet another sub plot that doesn't have a heck of a lot to do with anything else.  

[-Mark-]

Or you're bowing out because our side of the argument actually put up overwhelming amounts of valid point-after-point argument to which your sides only response was "The comics are crap because they are not the games", which was a losing battle from the beggining because the comics are not the games and never should be treated as such.

 

Really? SonicX adheres more to the games than the comic? If you really think that then it probably is best to end the debate now because I can't see any way to reason with that. Wow.

 

Wow, I try and just back off and keep things civil and I get two responses that basically spit it back in my face. Granted one was relatively more civil, but sorry, you're just being an outright douchebag. Your comment there just goes to show that you either didn't read, didn't understand or chose to ignore most of what I said.

 

Yes, I do think that Sonic X adheres to the game canon far more closely than the Archie comics ever has by a thousandfold. And yes, I think you're just as stupid for thinking the opposite as you think I am for thinking what I do. Hence I agreed to disagree and said that we'll quite plainly never see eye to eye. I think you clearly have no idea or understanding of what the Sonic franchise is just as you think I don't.

 

But no, you just had to get the last word in, didn't you?

 

I think your opinion is stupid, you think mine is stupid. I think all your reasoning and excuses are just as worthless as you think mine are. There, I said it. Now can we agree to disagree?

 

I have my reasons and justifications for my opinions and could could throw out another five-paragraph counter-argument to try and elaborate my point and discredit yours, but as I said, I'm not going to bother. For a start you probably wouldn't read it properly. But either way, ultimately, it's an opinion. Something we're both entitled to and that ultimately cannot be proven wrong or right.

 

We have different views on what the Sonic series is and how it should be portrayed. That's all it comes down to in the end.

 

Anyway, I'm done now. I probably shouldn't even have fallen for such a cheap provocation as your post, because I'm sure you'll have another one to follow this. I'm just not going to bother, so by all means go ahead and take this as me giving up and that you're right if you want.

Edited February 6, 2013 by -Mark-

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't think you're wrong for your thoughts, I just think it would be best if we looked at all the elements that goes into the things we're talking about during a debate.

 

Nothing wrong with disliking the comics, but I just can't stand anything that appears to be a double standard most of the time, dude.

 

At any rate...anyone got the recent issue yet?

Edited February 6, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[The-Master-Board]

Wow, I try and just back off and keep things civil and I get two responses that basically spit it back in my face. Granted one was relatively more civil, but sorry, you're just being an outright douchebag. Your comment there just goes to show that you either didn't read, didn't understand or chose to ignore most of what I said.

 

Yes, I do think that Sonic X adheres to the game canon far more closely than the Archie comics ever has by a thousandfold. And yes, I think you're just as stupid for thinking the opposite as you think I am for thinking what I do. Hence I agreed to disagree and said that we'll quite plainly never see eye to eye. I think you clearly have no idea or understanding of what the Sonic franchise is just as you think I don't.

 

But no, you just had to get the last word in, didn't you?

 

I think your opinion is stupid, you think mine is stupid. I think all your reasoning and excuses are just as worthless as you think mine are. There, I said it. Now can we agree to disagree?

 

I have my reasons and justifications for my opinions and could could throw out another five-paragraph counter-argument to try and elaborate my point and discredit yours, but as I said, I'm not going to bother. For a start you probably wouldn't read it properly. But either way, ultimately, it's an opinion. Something we're both entitled to and that ultimately cannot be proven wrong or right.

 

We have different views on what the Sonic series is and how it should be portrayed. That's all it comes down to in the end.

 

Anyway, I'm done now. I probably shouldn't even have fallen for such a cheap provocation as your post, because I'm sure you'll have another one to follow this. I'm just not going to bother, so by all means go ahead and take this as me giving up and that you're right if you want.

Nope. The Allgod moderator with a chip on his shoulder against me has spoken so I won't be retaliating.

I will say this though, the problem I have is you leave in bad sport.

Sure everyone is entitled to their opinion and opinions can't be wrong, but you actually have to have some reasoning behind those opinions. I personally think the opinion that SonicX is closer to the games than Archie comics are is an absurd opinion (for pretty much the reasons CSS stated) but would be willing to hear out the reasoning behind it and then debate back against that reasoning, but there was no reasoning and that was parr for the argument on every topic.

The whole discussion was basically "the comics suck, but here are no points why they suck and no counter-argument".

Then the moment you have overwhelming points to counter but no response you pull the I'm the bigger man card and bail out. I just think it is in bad sport. If you have such strong opinions then back them up with reasoning.

Edited February 6, 2013 by The-Master-Board

[Soniman]

Yeah not adding to the flames.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Soniman

[Sean]

Nope. The Allgod moderator with a chip on his shoulder against me has spoken so I won't be retaliating.

 

Being a dick to the staff isn't an entirely bright idea. You can have a week all to yourself to think about it.

 

And Mark, knock it off. Carbo already stepped in to calm the flames and that doesn't mean you have to go out of your way to continue them.

 

I am so sick of this topic. If this continues then we're just going to continue dishing out drastic measures until you all get the point.

[Kuzu]

....So yeah, Endangered Species....not exactly what I hoped for.

[Soniman]

Im pretty sure it's not what anyone was hoping it would be, not even poor Ian.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Soniman