Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Phos]

I imagine Sega's efforts to get the game more in line with the comic have as much to do with trying to avoid having something like this happen again as much as they do brand consistency.  If they really wanted brand consistency they'd probably be better off just canceling the book citing legal issues causing unworkable continuity.  Off course, a comic based off the current games would be the most content devoid shit imaginable, what's Eggman's master plan going to be, building another theme park with poor safety measures?

lol if they are, combine this with all of the above. It means that pretty much the entire last 2 years worth of stories have more or less been absolutely pointless.

Dos this really surprise you?  The comic's been this mess of meandering side plots and resets.  They have how many pages a month to deal with Nagus's coup, their misshapen Death Egg, Maxwell fleeing the kingdom, Sally being roboticized, and Silver's alleged traitor?  How many of these subplots have actually made any progress? And after all you can't let Sally die even though her relevance has long since atrophied, and the audience knows this so doing it was basically just a waste of panel space.  Her becoming a robot was kinda funny as it was the first time in years she had an actual impact on the plot but it also puts into sharp focus how pointless her normal role is as the main characters do the exact same things they always do when she isn't around.  Oh wait, there is one difference, Sally could have just used her magic popularity powers to veto making Nagus the king.  Stay classy, Archie.  

[Badnik Zero]

I think Phos is right about branding but I don't think Sega really gives a crap about the continuity status of the comic, the way I see them doing business is "You sell comics for us. Now sell them this other way". In other words why would Sega care about the plot, they are just handing mandates down, and it is up to Ian to sort the shit out. I hope I'm mistaken because the book is still the number one young readers comic in the United States and they should take note. And take note that the Sonic X comic didn't last for a reason. My biggest problem with being in the know about the book's politics is every story that's coming out now is like an excuse to further some end to balance the behind the curtains bullshit. Imagine the book did have to one day kill its SatAM characters - it might happen one day - Uncle Chuck sacrifices himself to save the world or something, but who cares, when the story is not driven by drama but by need. I guess some of you feel this way already, I'm just complaining that's all.

 

And just a separate thought here, I think the book needs two writers. How would you guys react to that kinda thing?

Edited February 2, 2013 by American Ristar

[Your Vest Friend]

And take note that the Sonic X comic didn't last for a reason. 

 

Yeah, probably because Sega pulled the plug on it since it wasn't relevant any more. It wasn't related to how it was selling (in fact, it was still selling well when it ended). 

[Badnik Zero]

^ I didn't know that but I personally wasn't a fan. Still not comfortable with the future of the comic though. Like what do Underground and the Mobius revisions have to do with the lawsuit. Does Sega not own those universes either?

Edited February 2, 2013 by American Ristar

[SchemingMinor]

And this is one of the reasons why I have gotten sick of Sonic, period. The hissy-fits SEGA takes towards him losing in any situation is really killing his character for me. It gets boring seeing him win time after time after time. Suspense? Naaaw, you know Sonic's going to win anyways, like pull some Chaos Emerald deus ex machina out of his ass.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Scheming Minor

[Komodin]

And this is one of the reasons why I have gotten sick of Sonic, period. The hissy-fits SEGA takes towards him losing in any situation is really killing his character for me. It gets boring seeing him win time after time after time. Suspense? Naaaw, you know Sonic's going to win anyways, like pull some Chaos Emerald deus ex machina out of his ass.

 

Well, to be fair, he IS the main hero of a work that's primarily aimed at young children; it goes without saying that he's never gonna suffer a real big and permanent defeat.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Well, to be fair, he IS the main hero of a work that's primarily aimed at young children; it goes without saying that he's never gonna suffer a real big and permanent defeat.

I don't think that serves as a decent defense when there are plenty of children's works out there that have a permanent sense of loss for the character. Or something more at risk for the hero that keeps him on his toes.

[Chooch]

Wait people are upset that Sonic wins? Really?

[Komodin]

Wait people are upset that Sonic wins? Really?

 

They're not mad that Sonic's winning at all; they're annoyed that he rarely suffers any serious setbacks or defeats before he ultimately wins.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

They're not mad that Sonic's winning at all; they're annoyed that he rarely suffers any serious setbacks or defeats before he ultimately wins.

 

This works better (though I'd hesitate to say very well) in the games, where we are Sonic and thus winning all the time is part of the experience. Makes for a boring comic, though, unless you've got a miracle man writing who knows how to make him interesting without giving him any sort of serious conflict. Different mediums expect different structures. Half-Life 2, for instance, makes for a wonderful game, but I'd be the first one to pass it up should I find it in novel form.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Sixth-Rate Soma

[Chooch]

Has that really been a problem in the comic books lately? Seems like plenty hasn't gone his way as of late.

[Soniman]

Has that really been a problem in the comic books lately? Seems like plenty hasn't gone his way as of late.

 

It's more like something that can become a potential problem if Sega has their way.

[Chooch]

I don't that's something that people really need to worry about even with all of these mandates issued by Sega.

 

Archie fans tend to suffer from extreme paranoia, man.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't that's something that people really need to worry about even with all of these mandates issued by Sega.

 

Archie fans tend to suffer from extreme paranoia, man.

Considering the whole dispute going on with the characters, and the whole "play it safe" attitude Sega had during the Unleashed thru Generations that seems to be indirectly affecting this, I don't think they're any more paranoid than Game fans.

Edited February 3, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Rally the Cheetah]

I think I already said this, but Sega are trying to make the comic friendlier to newcomers who won't know of its past and are only just now picking it up.

Perhaps so but it seems unnecessary. I mean I took a long break from the comics (left around the time Knuckles became the avatar or something like that and returned when the Iron Dominion was attacking New Mobotropolis) and had little trouble picking it up again. Actually, being out of the loop had a  positive effect: I was like, "What the heck did I miss?" I had to go and find the older issues to see what had happened up to that point. From the vendor's viewpoint this should be wonderful. That's more money in their pockets. And I'm not the only one who feels this way, heck all you have to do is read the fan letters at the end of each comic to see there are hundreds if not thousands of other fans who are getting back into the comic or are just starting and are interested in finding out more in the story. And with books like the super specials and of course the sonic comic encyclopedia it's not hard to pick things up. 

Honestly, I don't know what SEGA and or Archie are in a huff about. Yeah the story is a bit confusing but hey, it's still going strong. Heck, the fact that it's even going at all is testament to its greatness. Also, it's just one Sonic comic series going right now but 2! 2!!! That should be huge. I mean aside from the Mega Man strip going now what other comic series with game characters are there out there? (and no i don't count manga as being the same as comics) Also just the sheer lifespan it's had so far. This comic has been going for YEARS. To dumb all that history down or perhaps throw it away all together, it seems an utter waste. The one reason I can think of for an all out comic reboot is if SEGA, indeed, decides to reboot the Sonic franchise completely as they were rumored to. If they're going in a totally different direction then I could see the comic needing some change and rather than trying to shift around back stories or try find a way to write in the new game story plot a reboot might be simpler. 

[-Mark-]

I think Phos is right about branding but I don't think Sega really gives a crap about the continuity status of the comic, the way I see them doing business is "You sell comics for us. Now sell them this other way". In other words why would Sega care about the plot, they are just handing mandates down, and it is up to Ian to sort the shit out. I hope I'm mistaken because the book is still the number one young readers comic in the United States and they should take note. And take note that the Sonic X comic didn't last for a reason. My biggest problem with being in the know about the book's politics is every story that's coming out now is like an excuse to further some end to balance the behind the curtains bullshit. Imagine the book did have to one day kill its SatAM characters - it might happen one day - Uncle Chuck sacrifices himself to save the world or something, but who cares, when the story is not driven by drama but by need. I guess some of you feel this way already, I'm just complaining that's all.

 

And just a separate thought here, I think the book needs two writers. How would you guys react to that kinda thing?

 

I think multiple writers just makes things even more of a mess. Different people will have different ideas of what they want to do, and it means they'll have to work closely with one another in order to make sure they don't step on each others' toes and make mistakes.

 

The series is a mess enough as it is already, at least it's stepped in line a bit more in recent years. 

 

The problem in general is that the Archie comics are the last lingering remnants of the long-dead Western canon. The target audience for Sonic weren't even alive back when the Western continuity was relevant, and the only reason it's being clinged to now is purely for the sake of not letting it go. The people who genuinely care for the continuity and its characters are in the vast minority, and the painful truth is that there's little to no place for this bloated, convoluted dinosaur of a universe to exist alongside the current Sonic game canon.

 

I understand full well why the Western continuity existed back in the day; at the height of his popularity, you could pretty much count on one hand how many game canon Sonic characters there were. And that would make a series pretty damn hard to write. However, that's no longer an excuse- just see how many complaints there have been over 'Sonic's shitty friends' and 'too many characters' in the last ten years. Granted, it's maybe still not enough to support an ongoing series, but they could certainly make characters more fitting with the Sonic series in general.

 

And for people arguing 'Oh, but it's Archie's Sonic', no.

 

Yes, it's 'Archie's' Sonic; but the key thing here is that, in turn, it's based on Sega's Sonic. I've said countless times before, there's a difference between putting your own spin on a character or universe and completely fucking it up beyond almost all recognition. If you're a paid professional being paid to create work for an existing franchise, that does not and should not equate to free reign to do whatever you want with someone else's creations. Ken Penders took the piss and then some during his reign, and it's been nice to see Ian trying his hardest to pick up the pieces from the mangled train wreck he was left to work with. 

 

I'm totally with Sega on this one. I don't despise the Archie comics by any mean, but the sad fact is that its universe hasn't been relevant for nearly a decade and a half. If anything, Sega should have had these stricter mandates in place from the start. Hell, you could argue that ultimately, they're the ones at fault for blindly giving their stamp of approval to all the shit the comic put out in its darkest ages- maybe if they'd actually thought to keep tighter control on the comic to begin with, it wouldn't have spiralled out of control and they wouldn't have to be stepping in so drastically now.

Edited February 3, 2013 by -Mark-

[Nattala]

To be fair; the Western canon is not the only ancient history that the comic retains. Part of what I love about the comics is how it embraces  various parts of obscure Sonic history. I mean you have the Battle Bird Armada as recurring villains; more people would recognise the SatAM characters than who would know who the Battle Bird Armada is. No one outside the fanbase cares about things like Mecha Knuckles or the Tails doll but both are getting story appearances. Mighty and Ray are still going strong in the comics.

 

Plus from a storytelling perspective it's kinda bad storytelling to have prominent characters who have been there from the beginning disappear. Diminishing in importance is normal, but to be taken out altogether  would seem really odd.

[SuperLink]

Chooch is right. SEGA's changes went into affect with stories being planned like half a year ago to a year ago, various terms are being used less, the lack of Penders characters is likely more to do with Penders than SEGA, and the recent comic plots have had no shortage of setbacks for Sonic.

 

I said it before I'll say it again, just because they want various terms and such to be more consistent with the gameverse doesn't mean they want to directly affect the plot or make Sonic into a "never loses" protagonist. Where did people get this notion anyway? Nothibg of late suggests that at all. SEGA doesn't even hate plot, they just keep Sonic games simple because that's what the critics and wider-audience want.

 

Srsly guys

SEGA are not out to change everything about Archie, their influence isn't exactly brand new, they just wanted to do a bit of cleanup as things were getting out of control and the series was spinning out beyond familiarity.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

The problem in general is that the Archie comics are the last lingering remnants of the long-dead Western canon. The target audience for Sonic weren't even alive back when the Western continuity was relevant, and the only reason it's being clinged to now is purely for the sake of not letting it go. The people who genuinely care for the continuity and its characters are in the vast minority, and the painful truth is that there's little to no place for this bloated, convoluted dinosaur of a universe to exist alongside the current Sonic game canon.

I'm sorry, and your evidence for this is where and what source again?

 

Because from what I'm reading, it's not so much the "painful truth" than it is you telling these fans who are cautious about these changes to STFU and deal with it, dude. And last I checked this "bloated, convoluted dinosaur of a universe" had no bearing over the current game canon, and therefore wasn't doing it any damage to said canon. So I see no reason how in the world there's no place for it to exist alongside the current game canon, when it already does as a part of it's own canon.

 

Now granted, I'm one who would be more than happy for them to fix up the mess Penders made during his run because much of it was crap that he took too much liberty on (some I'm okay with, but that's a different story), but it is downright arrogant and dickish the way you look at the comic and those who happen to enjoy reading them, and you are not the authority who determines what should and shouldn't exist alongside anything.

 

 

And for people arguing 'Oh, but it's Archie's Sonic', no.

And why not? Sounds like a decent point, because there's nothing wrong with it having a different canon from the games. Sonic Team themselves did it during their run with Sonic X (which wasn't good) and the OVA (which a lot of people regard highly), so I don't see the problem with them allowing some creative freedom over other media (emphasis on the key word being "some").

 

I'm totally with Sega on this one. I don't despise the Archie comics by any mean, but the sad fact is that its universe hasn't been relevant for nearly a decade and a half. If anything, Sega should have had these stricter mandates in place from the start. Hell, you could argue that ultimately, they're the ones at fault for blindly giving their stamp of approval to all the shit the comic put out in its darkest ages- maybe if they'd actually thought to keep tighter control on the comic to begin with, it wouldn't have spiralled out of control and they wouldn't have to be stepping in so drastically now.

Now that's quite an oxymoron: if it wasn't relevant for nearly a decade in a half, explain to me what difference it would have made if they had the mandates from the start preventing this mess in the first place to make it relevant?

Edited February 3, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[The-Master-Board]

I think multiple writers just makes things even more of a mess. Different people will have different ideas of what they want to do, and it means they'll have to work closely with one another in order to make sure they don't step on each others' toes and make mistakes.

 

The series is a mess enough as it is already, at least it's stepped in line a bit more in recent years. 

 

The problem in general is that the Archie comics are the last lingering remnants of the long-dead Western canon. The target audience for Sonic weren't even alive back when the Western continuity was relevant, and the only reason it's being clinged to now is purely for the sake of not letting it go. The people who genuinely care for the continuity and its characters are in the vast minority, and the painful truth is that there's little to no place for this bloated, convoluted dinosaur of a universe to exist alongside the current Sonic game canon.

 

I understand full well why the Western continuity existed back in the day; at the height of his popularity, you could pretty much count on one hand how many game canon Sonic characters there were. And that would make a series pretty damn hard to write. However, that's no longer an excuse- just see how many complaints there have been over 'Sonic's shitty friends' and 'too many characters' in the last ten years. Granted, it's maybe still not enough to support an ongoing series, but they could certainly make characters more fitting with the Sonic series in general.

 

And for people arguing 'Oh, but it's Archie's Sonic', no.

 

Yes, it's 'Archie's' Sonic; but the key thing here is that, in turn, it's based on Sega's Sonic. I've said countless times before, there's a difference between putting your own spin on a character or universe and completely fucking it up beyond almost all recognition. If you're a paid professional being paid to create work for an existing franchise, that does not and should not equate to free reign to do whatever you want with someone else's creations. Ken Penders took the piss and then some during his reign, and it's been nice to see Ian trying his hardest to pick up the pieces from the mangled train wreck he was left to work with. 

 

I'm totally with Sega on this one. I don't despise the Archie comics by any mean, but the sad fact is that its universe hasn't been relevant for nearly a decade and a half. If anything, Sega should have had these stricter mandates in place from the start. Hell, you could argue that ultimately, they're the ones at fault for blindly giving their stamp of approval to all the shit the comic put out in its darkest ages- maybe if they'd actually thought to keep tighter control on the comic to begin with, it wouldn't have spiralled out of control and they wouldn't have to be stepping in so drastically now.

You know what else is a "dinosaur" Sonic in general.

You think we wouldn't have gotten the great game acknowledgeing Sonic's past "Sonic Generations" if SEGA had that kind of backwards way of thinking "oh 2D gaming is sooo yesteryear, a relic of the past".

If find this way of thinking laughable.

You really think the comic is one of the best selling kids comics ever and the longest running comic based on a video game with it's fans being in the minority? Why do you think the comic has run so long; because it is popular. People like it which says something for the way it is run. Those "relics" that have continued on in the comic from SatAM and other various sources must be striking a chord with readers otherwise the comic would've waned and died in fanbase much like the Sonic games did over the years.

 

Little to no place for this comic's continiuity? Rightio.

Why exactly? It's not like the comic interferes with the games. If so why has it been running side by side with them for so many years without any problems yet? There are many things that run alongside the main series which are not considered canon.

Hell why don't we all complain about the Mario and Sonic series.

Using this same logic they should stop making those (please stop making those) because it might confuse people that Mario is part of Sonic's universe. The TV shows had nothing to do with the games, they still ran at the time. What you wanna ban all those unless they fall in line with the games? In Japan Sonic has a manga that usually comes out around the time a new game is released; nothing to do with the main series.

Fact is something as big as Sonic will be present in many mediums, not all of them canon to the games. An ongoing comic that has years and years of history and many fans of that history should not be subject to asinine regulations simply because some people are too stupid to differentiate (or they think some people are too stupid to differentiate) a games continuity from a comics continuity.

 

Currently I love what the comics are doing. They're a lot nicer to the fans than the games have been. They give us little goodies like adding popular meme's from the Sonic community, to having obscure characters show up like Metal Knuckles and Tails Doll and actually listen to fans. Without the comic we'd lose the chance to see characters like Mighty, Bean, Bark and Nack seeing as SEGA would rather add shitty flying chihuahua's and absurd "werehogs" to their games rather than bring back old characters that have fans.

 

Claiming that the Western/SatAM/comic's origins concept is outdated and has no place now is about the stupidest thing I've heard. Sonic is an outdated concept, the very genre of platforming games hasn't been popular since the late 90's, yet we all cling to this thing because we like it. Just getting rid of something because you think it is outdated is a pretty stupid idea.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Comics of Marvel and DC exist alongside the cartoons, movies, and video games of one another and in many different forms; each uses characters known in their respective verses and alters them, some more significant than others. For example, Nick Fury was originally white before they changed him to look like Samuel L. Jackson or otherwise african-american as people see him often. And each one of them uses the characters in different ways, such as the Dark Knight Series that tries to take a more realistic look on the Batman compared to the comics and the animated series. Not everyone is familiar with the more intricate details and other characters that exist except for the main ones that face the comics.

 

I'd even go so far as to use Mario and his Paper RPGs as an example; normally anything that tried to kill you (such as goombas, koopas, and bob-ombs) were your enemies and yet you could meet those who were friendly if not dowright allies during the game.

 

And yet they manage to exist alongside each other. Keeping things respective to certain sources is one thing, but to say something can't exist alongside another form of the franchise reeks of hypocrisy or ignorance of the other franchises that do it.

[-Mark-]

Having a different canon and having a different canon that drastically alters core parts of the franchise to the point where they barely resemble said franchise is what annoys me.

 

Don't get me wrong, Ian's done a great job in 're-Sonic-ifying' the comic in recent years, but before that? It honestly felt less like a Sonic comic, and more like a generic furry superhero political romance drama with Sonic just copypasted in. Even if they do their own canon, the general style and tone should at least be consistent with the franchise as a whole.

 

The old Archie comics were pretty much Sonic in name and design only; the characters personalities, behaviour and the settings and situations they found them in bore almost no resemblance to 'Sonic'. If I take for example, Naruto as a series and swap out the main cast for Sonic and co. but keep everything else exactly the same, does that make it a 'Sonic' series? Can you call it a fitting Sonic series just because it has the Sonic cast? No, it makes it Naruto with a model swap. This was the core problem I had with Archie Sonic.

 

I know that the comics don't affect the game canon, but I'm speaking more in terms of the image and reputation of the franchise as a whole. Ultimately, regardless of canon, universe or medium, Sonic is Sonic. At least, it should be. Before Ian took over, the comics were painfully unprofessional for the most part, both in terms of writing and artistic quality, with it bordering on trashy furry porn on an awkwardly regular basis.

 

My previous comments were made on the fact that I honestly know very few people who actually genuinely like the Archie Sonic comic. Remember that sales do not always equate to people liking something; especially when it comes to the Sonic fanbase. I know a lot of people who buy the comics, yes, but most of those people (myself included for the most part) do so because we're Sonic fans; not because we particularly enjoy the comic itself. I know quite a few people who genuinely don't give two shits about the comic itself and simply buy it because it's Sonic. What I'm saying is, from what I can see, a good portion of the comics sales are due to it piggybacking on the Sonic brand name alone. I doubt the comic would be seeing anywhere near the amount of success it has if it were an original publication rather than having the brand association of an established, popular franchise. I doubt many of the kids who buy it would have even given it a second glance on a shop shelf if it didn't have Sonic's namesake on the cover.

 

I don't have beef with them having a different canon, but the Archie comic took far too many liberties in the past. If nothing else, a comic based on Sonic should at least feature the core main cast prominently, yet the book was (and arguably still is) 90%+ original characters. 

 

I'm not saying the comics need to be an accurate representation of the game canon, but they should at least have the courtesy to be an accurate portrayal of the franchise that they're supposed to be based on as a whole.

Edited February 3, 2013 by -Mark-

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Having a different canon and having a different canon that drastically alters core parts of the franchise to the point where they barely resemble said franchise is what annoys me.

Then perhaps you shouldn't be reading the comics to keep from being annoyed? Because what you're not getting is that this comic is a cumulative of much of the franchise itself. Yes, there are a lot of things exclusive to the comic itself, but this was made to combine that of the western cartoons and adapting it with the game material while working to tell plots unique to itself. It's been that way for 20 years, and it's not showing any sign of changing from that into something even closer to the games by doing away with aspects such as the SatAM inclusions. Ian himself is a fan of these elements, and nothing more than being flat out told to do away with them by Sonic Team themselves (which, so far hasn't been said) will force him to write them out.

 

Don't get me wrong, Ian's done a great job in 're-Sonic-ifying' the comic in recent years, but before that? It honestly felt less like a Sonic comic, and more like a generic furry superhero political romance drama with Sonic just copypasted in. Even if they do their own canon, the general style and tone should at least be consistent with the franchise as a whole.

The general style of the franchise itself wasn't even consistent during that time. Sonic 06? ShTH? And you're calling out the comics for being inconsistent?

 

The old Archie comics were pretty much Sonic in name and design only; the characters personalities, behaviour and the settings and situations they found them in bore almost no resemblance to 'Sonic'. If I take for example, Naruto as a series and swap out the main cast for Sonic and co. but keep everything else exactly the same, does that make it a 'Sonic' series? Can you call it a fitting Sonic series just because it has the Sonic cast? No, it makes it Naruto with a model swap. This was the core problem I had with Archie Sonic.

If Sega were to allow it (and they got permission from the guy behind Naruto to do so, I'm assuming), then yes that would still make it a "Sonic" series. Whether it would be any good or not is a different question.

 

I know that the comics don't affect the game canon, but I'm speaking more in terms of the image and reputation of the franchise as a whole. Ultimately, regardless of canon, universe or medium, Sonic is Sonic. At least, it should be. Before Ian took over, the comics were painfully unprofessional for the most part, both in terms of writing and artistic quality, with it bordering on trashy furry porn on an awkwardly regular basis.

No you're not speaking in terms of the image and reputation of the franchise as a whole, and don't even try to make that excuse.

 

You're speaking from a personal bias against what the comic has, and whether you acknowledge that or not, the image and reputation of the franchise as a whole was always affected more by the games than any other part of the franchise. You're calling the comics unprofessional in writing and artistic quality, bordering on furry porn, and yet we had a game that went so far as to use guns and cuss words in an attempt to gain an older audience, followed by a game which went uber-realistic and where many tend to cry "beastiality" over a human kissing an anthropomorphic hedgehog?

 

Yeah, image and reputation my ass, bud.

 

 

My previous comments were made on the fact that I honestly know very few people who actually genuinely like the Archie Sonic comic. Remember that sales do not always equate to people liking something; especially when it comes to the Sonic fanbase, I know a lot of people who buy the comics, yes, but most of those people (myself included for the most part) do so because we're Sonic fans; not because we particularly enjoy the comic itself. I know quite a few people who genuinely don't give two shits about the comic itself and simply buy it because it's Sonic. What I'm saying is, from what I can see, a good portion of the comics sales are due to it piggybacking on the Sonic brand name alone. I doubt the comic would be seeing anywhere near the amount of success it has if it were an original publication rather than having the brand association of an established, popular franchise.

You don't, and cannot, judge the entire reputation of a comic series based on the few people that you know. You don't speak for the whole fandom, or even a part of the fandom that likes the comics. And you can't claim that sales do not equate to people liking something only to turn around and say that a group of people who geniunely like the comics fall into the minority.

 

That is arrogant as hell, and only damages your argument's credibility. And pulling the "Original IP" card is just being desperate; the comic was never made to be an original publication in the first place - the whole point of it was to represent Sonic, hence why it is using the brand name in the first damn place.

 

I don't have beef with them having a different canon, but the Archie comic took far too many liberties in the past. If nothing else, a comic based on Sonic should at least feature the core main cast prominently, yet the book was (and arguably still is) 90+ original characters. 

 

I'm not saying the comics need to be an accurate representation of the game canon, but they should at least have the courtesy to be an accurate portrayal of the franchise that they're supposed to be based on as a whole.

Yeah, sounds like the opposite to me. Because first off, the comic started off as a continuation of the SatAM cartoon first and foremost. That's why the main cast happens to be the Freedom Fighters from SatAM, because they were represented in the comic first and therefore they're going to be the main cast featured prominently.

 

And yet that didn't stop them from blending more of the other parts of the franchise to it adapting the Adventures' plots and characters into its series and even bringing Silver, Blaze, and Cream into the comic when they could've left them out, hence why the added Amy as part of a bigger cast and adding her as a core member of the FF over time, hence why they even gave Knuckles his own damn side-comic that lasted 32 issues, and hence hence why they made the Universe series which puts more focus on to the other game characters.

 

As I've said before, you are not the authority who determines what should be done, nor are you the one who determined who the main cast was, because it was established a long time ago who they were when it came to the comics. Just because the comics fall different from what you're used to in the games gives you no authority to call foul for the comics to do things differently when it comes to the use of it's cast of characters.

 

While you are certainly more than welcome to criticize the writing, the plot, the art style, and use of characters and when they take these elements too far, you are not the one who determines the hierarchy of who are the core characters to be featured prominently, and neither am I. Sega is content on who are the core characters established in the comics, and should they find it necessary, they could make mandates that changes that. So far, they haven't done so.

Edited February 3, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[-Mark-]

Sorry, where did I mention any personal bias against the comics? You're also forgetting that almost the entirety of my argument is based on the past. I said multiple times that I think Ian's doing a fine job with tidying everything up. 

 

I can honestly say that I did actually genuinely enjoy the Archie comics in the few months running up to Genesis, and for most of the year that followed. I generally like the direction Ian is taking with the comic. 

 

Regarding the whole 'original IP' argument, are you forgetting that the comic, the cartoon it's based off of and every other Sonic media owes its very existence to the game franchise? You're saying that the whole point of the comics was 'to represent Sonic', yet until recent years that 'representation' was very, very loose. Also, for my point about the Naruto character swap, I asked if it would make a fitting Sonic series, not just a 'Sonic' series.

 

Anyway, to reiterate; almost everything I've said has been talking about the comic's past. Admittedly I feel the comic has fallen into mediocrity in the last six months or so, but I don't think it's awful. Yes, I'm thinking of dropping the book again because I'm personally finding it dull now, but I'm still pleased with the direction the comic is heading in for the most part. Sure, I still think it could be better, but as you said, I'm not in charge of it. 

 

Perhaps I worded myself badly by simply saying 'people I know' and trying to state it as fact, but again, if nothing else I will say that from what I've seen from numerous corners of the Internet and the Sonic fanbase as a whole is that the Archie comic generally isn't held in particularly high regard, is all. I certainly see far more people who aren't fond of it than people who are. Again, I could be completely wrong, I don't know, but it's certainly the impression I've got for many years now.

 

And there obviously have been changes in the last year or so; even I can see that the series is gradually being steered toward a more accurate representation of the game canon. Look at how many of the Archie/ SatAM cast have been written out of the plot or otherwise 'put on a bus' in the last few issues; Snively, Sally, Bunnie, Antoine- and Cream, Big and Amy are now regulars. Same goes for Orbot and Cubot. And then there's Sally's redesign. All these things already go to show that Sega wanted changes and began pulling their weight in order to do so.

Edited February 3, 2013 by -Mark-

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Sorry, where did I mention any personal bias against the comics? You're also forgetting that almost the entirety of my argument is based on the past. I said multiple times that I think Ian's doing a fine job with tidying everything up. 

 

And the way you said that and continued to argue about the comics sounded more like you were arguing about it's past and present than the past alone.

 

Regarding the whole 'original IP' argument, are you forgetting that the comic, the cartoon it's based off of and every other Sonic media owes its very existence to the game franchise? You're saying that the whole point of the comics was 'to represent Sonic', yet until recent years that 'representation' was very, very loose.

Considering that I've said it blends it's material with the game franchise and flat out said that it is being made to represent the franchise?

 

No? Nevermind that other media outside of the games were equally guilty of this, including the ones made by Sonic Team themselves.

 

 Also, for my point about the Naruto character swap, I asked if it would make a fitting Sonic series, not just a 'Sonic' series.

And like I said, whether it would be any good or not is a different question. Of course that answer is very likely to be no, but then again, we have Halo swap that passes for a Sonic game, and a Final Fantasy-esque take that also passes for a Sonic game, despite both being unfitting.

 

Regardless, the comic is blending elements from the games, the SatAM cartoons, and doing so in a way to keep itself ongoing during the gaps where there aren't any games to make a plot from; with that in mind, there are definitely going to be a number of exclusive elements to the comics, and whether they're good or not depends on how they do it.

 

 

 

Anyway, to reiterate; almost everything I've said has been talking about the comic's past. Admittedly I feel the comic has fallen into mediocrity in the last six months or so, but I don't think it's awful. Yes, I'm thinking of dropping the book again because I'm personally finding it dull now, but I'm still pleased with the direction the comic is heading in for the most part. Sure, I still think it could be better, but as you said, I'm not in charge of it.

I said you're not in charge of determining the heirarchy of the characters and what should or shouldn't be done differently alongside the comic, but that you are also more than welcome to criticize these elements on how they work on them. I may not necessarily agree, but don't be so arrogant and insulting about it.

 

Perhaps I worded myself badly by simply saying 'people I know' and trying to state it as fact, but again, if nothing else I will say that from what I've seen from numerous corners of the Internet and the Sonic fanbase as a whole is that the Archie comic generally isn't held in particularly high regard, is all. I certainly see far more people who aren't fond of it than people who are. Again, I could be completely wrong, I don't know, but it's certainly the impression I've got for many years now.

Look, if a comic has been running for 20 years and gets some attention, I find it hard to believe that the overall impression is that it's bad and no one likes it.

 

 

And there obviously have been changes in the last year or so; even I can see that the series is gradually being steered toward a more accurate representation of the game canon. Look at how many of the Archie/ SatAM cast have been written out of the plot or otherwise 'put on a bus' in the last few issues; Snively, Sally, Bunnie, Antoine- and Cream, Big and Amy are now regulars. Same goes for Orbot and Cubot. And then there's Sally's redesign. All these things alreadygo to show that Sega wanted changes and began pulling their weight in order to do so.

Yeah, you forgot to mention Team Dark and Knuckles who were also put under a bus, before the latter was brought to use in the current arc after more than a year absence in the comic. Nevermind the continuous use of other groups of Freedom Fighters such as the Sand Blasters as well as new FFs such as the ones the Chaotix encountered earlier in Mercia.

 

Nevermind that Sally, contrary to what you just said, is still being used she just hasn't made any appearance in the current arc, Rotor happens to lead Cream and Big, Nagus is still ruling the Republic, and the Secret Freedom Fighters fighting a shadow war against Nagus in his control over the Republic.

 

Also noting is the character Thrash who was made use off in the the Endangered Species arc, or the Krudzu taking control of Metal Knuckles. In addition to Snively being written out, Regina Ferrum (the Iron Queen) was brought back as a grandmaster for the Eggman Empire.

 

Really, do you want me to make a whole list here? Because were dealing with these things in arcs, and as such not everything is going to be given attention at once.

Edited February 3, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic