Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[DarkLight]

What Mega Man stuff, since when has Yardley drew Mega Man comics before?

 

The only time I know he drew Mega Man was a cartoony chibi pic he done some time ago on deviant art, are people expecting him to draw like that or something cause that's a silly expectation. People should know better that he can draw better than that. 

 

True, he's never penciled an issue for Mega Man, I've only seen his work through the graphic novel for Megan Man 1#-4# in the concept section.

 

But just so I don't sound like I'm judging him already, I'll wait and see the issue for myself. 

[Arcade Racer CC14]

Ah, looks like the Copy Robots have taken to duplicating the traits of biological life forms rather than just other robots. Interesting.

[Sonictrainer]

Here's the solicit.

 

SONIC UNIVERSE #52

The second act of the epic Sonic the Hedgehog and Mega Man crossover event BEGINS HERE! "When Worlds Collide" Part Five of Twelve: Sonic, Mega Man, Tails and Proto Man enter the strange world of the Skull Egg Zone. They don't receive a warm welcome, either, as the Genesis Unit and Copy Robot attack! Drs. Eggman and Wily wait in the wings with an even more sinister surprise waiting to be unleashed! You cannot miss this action-packed issue, featuring new cover art by Patrick "SPAZ" Spaziante, and choose YOUR favorite hero with the "Team Sonic" and "Team Mega Man" variant covers!

 

Script: Ian Flynn

Art: Tracy Yardley!, Terry Austin, Jack Morelli, and Thomas Mason

Cover: Patrick "SPAZ" Spaziante, Jack Morelli, and Matt Herms

Team Sonic Variant: Patrick "SPAZ" Spaziante, Tracy Yardley!, Matt

Herms, and Thomas Mason

 Team Mega Man Variant: Patrick "SPAZ" Spaziante, Ryan Jampole, and Thomas Mason

 

On Sale at Comic Specialty Shops: 5/15

32-page, full color comic $2.99 US.

 

 

Sounds cool, but kinda on the fence about Yardley penciling this. While I love the guy's work on Sonic, his Mega Man stuff isn't as good IMO. Hoping he's improved since then.

 

 

I wonder what that looks like?

[The-Master-Board]

(Ignoring all the cross over crap)

You know Penders is a dick and all, but I kinda feel like at the moment SEGA are being bigger dicks. What's with all the mandates? The comics are not the games, and thank arse for that cuz some of the games have been a mess.

People know that the two mediums are seperate, the comic obviously has a lot of history and now they just wanna scrap all of that?! SEGA can gtfo and stop meddling. The comic has obviously been doing well, hell it has kept its fans over an extended period longer that the games seem to have, who are SEGA to think they know how to run the show?

Changing things like that and putting in so many rules and restrictions must really piss off and make running the comic a hard job. Now they can't refer to Mobius as Mobius? Do they even know the reprucussions of that? Everytime somebody needs to make reference to a person from that planet they can't use "Mobius" anywhere in there? Seriously?

SEGA can't even keep a consistant background for a character, like the Blaze/Silver/Nega alternate reality/Future fiasco, yet they have the nerve to call the shots and worry about the comic using Nega because they might ruin the character? Or that the people who play the games might get confused when reading the comic if things aren't the same as the games?

SEGA I really wanna tell your big shots to get a life.

[Mogtaki]

I think I already said this, but Sega are trying to make the comic friendlier to newcomers who won't know of its past and are only just now picking it up.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I think I already said this, but Sega are trying to make the comic friendlier to newcomers who won't know of its past and are only just now picking it up.

If that were even the case, why did they do so for the Sonic Super Special Magazines and not the main comics themselves? The SSS Magazines are just a mix of previous titles; in the first issue, SSS Mag #1, you have issues 226, 160, 161, 199, and 200 in that order, and from that point on it jumps from random parts of the series past, so it makes no sense they would be doing this for newcomers who don't know of the past when those mags aren't even going that far back themselves for newcomers to make sense of it anyway.

Edited February 1, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Mogtaki]

If that were even the case, why did they do so for the Sonic Super Special Magazines and not the main comics themselves? The SSS Magazines are just a mix of previous titles; in the first issue, SSS Mag #1, you have issues 226, 160, 161, 199, and 200 in that order, and from that point on it jumps from random parts of the series past, so it makes no sense they would be doing this for newcomers who don't know of the past when those mags aren't even going that far back themselves for newcomers to make sense of it anyway.

 

Because it's frickin Sega logic. They think they're doing what's right but what they're really doing is making it all too confusing for long-term fans.

[The-Master-Board]

I think I already said this, but Sega are trying to make the comic friendlier to newcomers who won't know of its past and are only just now picking it up.

Thusly alientating longtime readers?

They're comics; something that has been running that long gets confusing even for people who have been reading them from the beggining.

It's not like they have to clarify and dumb down everything. If people who like the games get into the comics, cool. If they don't, whatever.

Just because you make the comics more like the games isn't gonna keep those people interested. Comics just might not be their thing.

Comics live on in depth worlds of detail and history and backstory because they have to, they come out each month unlike games which come out every few years and (if the recent games are anything to go by) contain about enough story to maybe barely fit one issue of a comic.

Changing things around by limiting what the comic can do and bringing them strictly in line with the games will only lose your longtime readers and for what? They're two different mediums. I'm not gonna read an issue of the comic then wonder why Amy is flirting with Sonic in the games when he has a Squirrel girlfriend in the comics.

In the olden days Sonic books would vary on Sonic's origin from book to book, we'd just take it all with a pinch of salt or pick and choose what you thought was canon. These days they have to hold kids hands through everything.

"Oh is the game and comic confusing your little brain because of the differences? Poor baby let me walk you through it all and make the bad inconsistancies go away" seems to be the motto these days.

[Chaos Warp]

Wait, what exactly is causing this? What did Penders and Archie do?

[Kuzu]

Thusly alientating longtime readers?

They're comics; something that has been running that long gets confusing even for people who have been reading them from the beggining.

It's not like they have to clarify and dumb down everything. If people who like the games get into the comics, cool. If they don't, whatever.

Just because you make the comics more like the games isn't gonna keep those people interested. Comics just might not be their thing.

Comics live on in depth worlds of detail and history and backstory because they have to, they come out each month unlike games which come out every few years and (if the recent games are anything to go by) contain about enough story to maybe barely fit one issue of a comic.

Changing things around by limiting what the comic can do and bringing them strictly in line with the games will only lose your longtime readers and for what? They're two different mediums. I'm not gonna read an issue of the comic then wonder why Amy is flirting with Sonic in the games when he has a Squirrel girlfriend in the comics.

In the olden days Sonic books would vary on Sonic's origin from book to book, we'd just take it all with a pinch of salt or pick and choose what you thought was canon. These days they have to hold kids hands through everything.

"Oh is the game and comic confusing your little brain because of the differences? Poor baby let me walk you through it all and make the bad inconsistancies go away" seems to be the motto these days.

 

 

While I don't agree with Sega's way of doing things most of the time, the changes aren't as significant as you're making them out to be. The only major change is the whole Echidna mess and that's more Penders fault than anything else.

[Potada]

Y'know, that's one thing I don't get. If people want to get into the comics, why don't they just get the Archive GN's or something? The comics really don't need to be dumbed down or have their continuity basically trashed just to appeal to new audiences. Hell, I got into the comics around when the Endgame saga rolled around, and I still enjoyed it.

[Badnik Mechanic]

(Ignoring all the cross over crap)

You know Penders is a dick and all, but I kinda feel like at the moment SEGA are being bigger dicks. What's with all the mandates? The comics are not the games, and thank arse for that cuz some of the games have been a mess.

People know that the two mediums are seperate, the comic obviously has a lot of history and now they just wanna scrap all of that?! SEGA can gtfo and stop meddling. The comic has obviously been doing well, hell it has kept its fans over an extended period longer that the games seem to have, who are SEGA to think they know how to run the show?

Changing things like that and putting in so many rules and restrictions must really piss off and make running the comic a hard job. Now they can't refer to Mobius as Mobius? Do they even know the reprucussions of that? Everytime somebody needs to make reference to a person from that planet they can't use "Mobius" anywhere in there? Seriously?

SEGA can't even keep a consistant background for a character, like the Blaze/Silver/Nega alternate reality/Future fiasco, yet they have the nerve to call the shots and worry about the comic using Nega because they might ruin the character? Or that the people who play the games might get confused when reading the comic if things aren't the same as the games?

SEGA I really wanna tell your big shots to get a life.

 

I'm sorry but this is completely wrong.

 

Sega having mandates on the comics isn't a new thing. It's been done since both Archie and Fleetway started and also affected the TV shows too.

 

The problem... is Archie.

 

Archie is out of control, it's been said for years, only when you try and bring up a rational conversation as to why the vast majority of fans would rather burn you at the stake because what they don't realise is that they're not fans of a Sonic comic so much as they're fans of 'Archie Comics' Sonic' which isn't Sega's.

 

You've got parents, you've got kids, you've got lovers, you've got future versions, you've got alternative versions, you've got a cast of hundreds and the vast majority are all acting and behaving in ways totally opposite to what Sega is doing.

 

I'm just amazed it's taken as long as it has for Sega to take note and what Archie has been doing and try and bring it in line without ordering it's complete destruction with a reboot.

[Kuzu]

I'm sorry but this is completely wrong.

 

Sega having mandates on the comics isn't a new thing. It's been done since both Archie and Fleetway started and also affected the TV shows too.

 

The problem... is Archie.

 

Archie is out of control, it's been said for years, only when you try and bring up a rational conversation as to why the vast majority of fans would rather burn you at the stake because what they don't realise is that they're not fans of a Sonic comic so much as they're fans of 'Archie Comics' Sonic' which isn't Sega's.

 

You've got parents, you've got kids, you've got lovers, you've got future versions, you've got alternative versions, you've got a cast of hundreds and the vast majority are all acting and behaving in ways totally opposite to what Sega is doing.

 

I'm just amazed it's taken as long as it has for Sega to take note and what Archie has been doing and try and bring it in line without ordering it's complete destruction with a reboot.

 

 

To be fair, that's mostly in the Future story arcs, which everyone agrees are terrible and never should have came to fruition.

[Vertekins]

I think people are forgetting that these character belong to SEGA. NOT Archie. It's SEGA's entire right to dictate how their characters be used.

About time too that Archie were put in their place and SEGA began wearing the trousers. They've had a far too long leash for a while now, fucking-up characters, making crap/melodramatic/innapropriate stories and doing whatever the hell they want with a bare amount of moderation.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Vertekins

[Kuzu]

I think people are forgetting that these character belong to SEGA. NOT Archie. It's SEGA's entire right to dictate how their characters be used.

About time too that Archie were put in their place and SEGA began wearing the trousers. They've had a far too long leash for a while now, fucking-up characters, making crap/melodramatic/innapropriate stories and doing whatever the hell they want with a bare amount of moderation.

 

I agree that Sega have every right to dictate that, but does it really need to come at the price of every other character tho? I mean I know the book is extremely notorious for it's...."quality", but since Flynn was already cutting off extra baggage to make a more concise universe, and more similar to the games, Sega's intervention just seems unnecessary, and some of their mandates just take away from the story.

 

I mean I can understand they don't want Sonic to cry, or have a girlfriend but not losing to Eggman? Really?

[DarkLight]

I don't want to see Sonic lose.

 

The only way you'd count him as losing was in the Silver arc, and had Knuckles be the big bad guy. But that was only a possible future. From how I see it, Sega will allow some leeaway as long as it's in an alternate future/reality.

 

 

 

EDIT: And since someone was curious to see Yardley's take on Mega Man, here's something I pulled from BK.

 

Needless to say, I like it a lot more than what I've seen before.

 

Edited February 1, 2013 by DarkLightDragon

[Vertekins]

Ragna the Bloodedge, on 01 Feb 2013 - 16:25, said:I agree that Sega have every right to dictate that, but does it really need to come at the price of every other character tho? I mean I know the book is extremely notorious for it's...."quality", but since Flynn was already cutting off extra baggage to make a more concise universe, and more similar to the games, Sega's intervention just seems unnecessary, and some of their mandates just take away from the story.
I mean I can understand they don't want Sonic to cry, or have a girlfriend but not losing to Eggman? Really?


There's a difference between losing and having setbacks. For every triumph Sonic's had over Eggman, Eggman keeps performing crimes of great atrocity. And besides, when has Sonic ever truly lost in the games? Sonic isn't allowed to lose but that doesn't prevent Eggman from getting in some huge hits.

Archie have had the balls in the past to neuter Sonic's defining characteristics in order for him to be a royal lapdog to a Mary Sue, to pit him against Tails for the most ridiculous of reasons (The stupid 'revolution' that took up all of, oh, one page and romantic plot tumor to set it up?), the inability to define sad emotion as anything more than blubbering which even SEGA stepped-in to moderate because they saw how over-the-top it was and the audacity to sideline major characters from the games to shove what are effectively official fancharacters into the limelight.

Archie have been pulling shit for years and still are. And it's SEGA's prerogative to state how an aspect of their franchise is to be portrayed regardless of the repercussions

[Kuzu]

There's a difference between losing and having setbacks. For every triumph Sonic's had over Eggman, Eggman keeps performing crimes of great atrocity. And besides, when has Sonic ever truly lost in the games? Sonic isn't allowed to lose but that doesn't prevent Eggman from getting in some huge hits.

 

True, but notice how in issue 175, right after Eggman had outright beaten Sonic, the very next issue rather hastily changes things back to the status quo because of that mandate, and it's really one of the most annoying story arcs for me because of that. It's gotten better recently, but still.

 

Archie have had the balls in the past to neuter Sonic's defining characteristics in order for him to be a royal lapdog to a Mary Sue, to pit him against Tails for the most ridiculous of reasons (The stupid 'revolution' that took up all of, oh, one page and romantic plot tumor to set it up?), the inability to define sad emotion as anything more than blubbering which even SEGA stepped-in to moderate because they saw how over-the-top it was and the audacity to sideline major characters from the games to shove what are effectively official fancharacters into the limelight.

Look, I'm not going to argue the quality of the writing because even I admitted that it's questionable at times, but I also acknowledge that this is Archie's Sonic, and not Sega's Sonic. Things are going to be changed because of it being an entirely different universe; most of the the Sega cast in the comics never had a major role to begin with so it really makes no sense for them to be shoved into the spotlight with the only justification being that they're from the games because aforementioned reason I just stated. 

 

Archie have been pulling shit for years and still are. And it's SEGA's prerogative to state how an aspect of their franchise is to be portrayed regardless of the repercussions

 

True, but I also don't believe that doing the exact same thing and neutering everything Archie related is solving any more problems than what you stated about Archie neutering Sega. 

Edited February 1, 2013 by Ragna the Bloodedge

[Soniman]

Let's not even get into the fact that Archie treats the official Sonic characters with a hell of a lot more care and given a lot more screen time and depth/characterization the Sega has been doing for years.

 

But hey, guess that's just my Archie bias talking again.

 

 

Archie have had the balls in the past to neuter Sonic's defining characteristics in order for him to be a royal lapdog to a Mary Sue, to pit him against Tails for the most ridiculous of reasons (The stupid 'revolution' that took up all of, oh, one page and romantic plot tumor to set it up?)

 

Im sure I've seen this argument 12 times before already but ill say it again. There's a key difference between how a character consistently acts in a comic and book and how a character's personality is skewed due to a case of bad writing in a bad story, House of Cards is one of those times.

 

I don't want to see Sonic lose.

Then personally id say just stick with the games, a comic that has Sonic constantly winning and never going through any struggles ever just makes for a boring read.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Soniman

[Kuzu]

Let's not even get into the fact that Archie treats the official Sonic characters with a hell of a lot more care and given a lot more screen time and depth/characterization the Sega has been doing for years.

 

But hey, guess that's just my Archie bias talking again.

 

This is arguable honestly; sure when it comes to the likes of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Eggman then no doubt, but then everyone else seems to sufffer to an extent. Blaze's entire world and backstory are side material at best, Team Dark don't really do anything, and the Chaotix are just there to more or less be Knuckles` tagalongs. sooooo, it honestly depends.

[Soniman]

This is arguable honestly; sure when it comes to the likes of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Eggman then no doubt, but then everyone else seems to sufffer to an extent. Blaze's entire world and backstory are side material at best, Team Dark don't really do anything, and the Chaotix are just there to more or less be Knuckles` tagalongs. sooooo, it honestly depends.

Well obviously they can't focus on these characters all the time because the story comes first, and unless they have a good reason they can't really shoehorn them in the story, which is why I suppose we haven't been seeing Team Dark in awhile.

 

And at least the Chaotix have been getting a Arc in Sonic Universe sans Knuckles (hell that's pretty much Universe's entire point, to give characters (specifically from the games) more focus).

[Kuzu]

Well obviously they can't focus on these characters all the time because the story comes first, and unless they have a good reason they can't really shoehorn them in the story, which is why I suppose we haven't been seeing Team Dark in awhile.

 

And at least the Chaotix have been getting a Arc in Sonic Universe sans Knuckles (hell that's pretty much Universe's entire point, to give characters (specifically from the games) more focus).

 

And I understand that, but it just feels really disproportionate at times; Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Eggman have been around since the comics early days so it's natural that they'd have the most focus, but I get the feeling that the rest of the Sega cast are just there to remind people that this is a Sonic book. 

 

That, and characters like Scourge make Shadow seem really redundant.

[Soniman]

And I understand that, but it just feels really disproportionate at times; Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Eggman have been around since the comics early days so it's natural that they'd have the most focus, but I get the feeling that the rest of the Sega cast are just there to remind people that this is a Sonic book. 

 

That, and characters like Scourge make Shadow seem really redundant.

 

I don't what to tell you then, I feel that the Sonic characters are getting a decent enough screen time. Off the back of my head I remember seeing Metal Sonic, Metal Knuckles, Tails Doll, Silver, Team Freedom's Cream, Cheese, Big, Heavy and Bomb  in recent issues. I know most of these characters aren't top tier characters but they're still Sonic characters and they still get consistent appearances.

 

And seeing as how Shadow came first (before the Scourge persona) and they act completely differently from one another, I'm not really seeing how that's true.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Soniman

[SuperLink]

While SEGA might be restricting what phrases and such Archie can use and make it more consistent with the game-verse, I highly highly doubt SEGA will censor Archie's intentions to the point some here are worrying about. They're not going to force them to make it so Sonic never ever loses because I'm sure SEGA know there's more to writing successful longrunning comics than "good guys always win". They're not going to remove every non-SEGA character.

 

Let's be totally honest, Archie went a bit too far with the shipping and the family members thing didn't they? Especially with Knuckles, I doubt SEGA really minded Uncle Chuck or a few relatives here and there but they don't really need the spotlight- they're probably not entirely important to the plots Archie want to tell anyway and I doubt Archie will do another Future Arc (where most of the "problems" arise) again either.

 

But some of Archie's original characters like Nicole (to an extent since she's evolved quite a lot from her Satam counterpart), Shard, Harvey, etc, they're pretty good and they work well as complimenting the already existing Sonic-verse rather than directly affecting it.

[The-Master-Board]

I'm sorry but this is completely wrong.

 

Sega having mandates on the comics isn't a new thing. It's been done since both Archie and Fleetway started and also affected the TV shows too.

 

The problem... is Archie.

 

Archie is out of control, it's been said for years, only when you try and bring up a rational conversation as to why the vast majority of fans would rather burn you at the stake because what they don't realise is that they're not fans of a Sonic comic so much as they're fans of 'Archie Comics' Sonic' which isn't Sega's.

 

You've got parents, you've got kids, you've got lovers, you've got future versions, you've got alternative versions, you've got a cast of hundreds and the vast majority are all acting and behaving in ways totally opposite to what Sega is doing.

 

I'm just amazed it's taken as long as it has for Sega to take note and what Archie has been doing and try and bring it in line without ordering it's complete destruction with a reboot.

It's not a new thing, but them being so anal is.

You do know the way comics work right? Alternate versions, future versions, family members, kids and extra characters up the arse are kinda the staple of what comics work on.

Like I said before this is a comic, if you try treat it like a game it will fail.