Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Soniman]

Not sure about Vector but im positive Charmy can't go anywhere because his entire Colony was destroyed, not to mention the brain damage that turned him into his 6 year old game self.

[turbojet]

Not sure about Vector but im positive Charmy can't go anywhere because his entire Colony was destroyed, not to mention the brain damage that turned him into his 6 year old game self.

[Soniman]

Where else is he going to go?

[Sega DogTagz]

1.) Makes travel seem less important or at least making a trip to Angel Island less strenuous. Sonic can crack the sound barrier, Shadow can use Chaos Control, and Eggman has teleporters. Kind of unnecessary travel that is used to make any trip to Angel Island less important. Why should Tails have a bi-plane if he can just use a warp ring. 2.) Why have a Warp Ring that just goes to Angel Island if there is any Warp Ring? I'd be okay if it just went to Special Zone with Panda Man, but there is no reason why Knuckles gets special privileges to warp ring technology and not say the GUN.

[turbojet]

Where else is he going to go?

Where else can he go?

Anywhere he wants. He could have went with Mighty and Ray, and not just sit around on that island.

Isn’t access to the warp rings restricted enough as to where none of this is a problem?

Or Ian contently forgets that it could be a problem. Finn....what's his name has been interested in warp ring tech before and no one on Knothole kingdom is an expert on them or can even be considered a genius to use them. Just because the author does not even consider the problems with his plot devices does not mean we should just accept them as they are. Tell me how 2 super geniuses(3 counting Eggman Nega) have not exploited instant transportation when a bunch of wood creatures with no real level of expertise have and only use it to go to Angel Island. It tells me, the reader, that the smartest people in this universe are stupid for not figuring it out or exploiting it, Acorn and Angel Island folks are a bunch of selfish bastards for not sharing it with the world since it gives them a hefty security measure which you just said neither of them really need, and the mechanics of this world is broken. How do the Warp Rings work? Magic has rules.

Asking why Tails uses a biplane instead of a warp ring is like asking why I drive to work everyday in a Crown Victoria instead of a 200 mph Ferrari. Last time I checked, not everyone has priority access to top shelf transportation devices.

He would not have to use fuel for his bi-plane if they placed warp rings in every village or destination important enough to mention. It is why we no longer really travel on horseback and carriage anymore.

Knuckles gets a ring because he lifted it off of Locke. Its not special treatment, Doc Finitivius just seems to keep the tech under lock and key for the most part.

Doctor Finitivius is a fucking idiot. No really. He knows how they work more than anybody else so he knows how to use them. So he willfully allows his sworn enemies to use it when they really have no clue how it works and just know that it transports them to a place.

Technically speaking, his job is to simply hang around and watch/assist Knux.

Until the Chameleon Clan calls him back so his loyalties are still with them, and he can still do as he pleases until Knuckles actually needs him.

Vector actually ran away from his problems in Downunda. He would not go back there to face them unless he absolutely had to. So he’s got no reason to go anywhere. As for Charmy, Espio confirmed that GoldenHive Colony is basically gone. Not only does this Prince have no kingdom to rule, or even go back to, but his current mental state kinda dicks around with his place in the world too.

Both sound like a rather convenient excuse for the author to not use characters or just have them on the island. Charmy's impairment does not prevent him from exploring and Vector's does not prevent him from doing anything else.

No really this is One More Day bad.

Perhaps the reason it isn’t attacked quite as often is because there is a squad of some of the worlds best heroes at the alter 24/7? You’d have to go through Knux, Su, Vec and a Ninja – and that’s just the beginning.

But please do tell me why you would consider leaving a gemstone capable of turning a mortal into an Enerjak without proper protection.

Bullshit. Eggman is willing to expend tons of resources on a village that is guarded by 3 teams of extremely capable fighters for literally no explained reason. He has most of the world under his thumb and the remaining of which is not only more resourcefully important, but tactically more capable since they don't have a physical 3 Gods guarding them(He does not know about Silver yet, but Naugus and Sonic are more than enough to deter him if Angel Island gets that excuse). All of which could hand Chaotix their asses on any front if a battle between them ever broke out(This would make for an awesome arc). Eggman was willing to risk attacking an area he knows Shadow, Rouge, and Omega are in just to prove a point. Eggman attacked two nation states on the pursuit of Snively(one of which had an army that was comparable to his) and won easily. So don't give me that crap that Eggman just fears Knuckles and Chaotix and the Master Emerald is better guarded than those or any villain just thinks the Master Emerald is not worth because he is there if they are willing to attack Sonic's place or go around Sonic's place knowing who is there for no real reason(Team Hooligan risked it, The Battle Bird Amarda risked it, and Naugus is risking it). And don't think for a second you can use "well, warp rings can bring those three teams to Angel Island" card. Mobotropolis was attacked when Sally got roboticized and Knuckles had no damn clue until Sonic told him. If Eggman attacked Angel Island with the same veracity as he did before, Angel Island would be his and that gemstone would have been long gone.

Ian has never thought of that. Flynn focuses on one area and expects the entire world to revolve around it when we know that there are other places.

[Soniman]

>One More Day bad

*throws hands in air

Fuck this, I'm bailing out of this argument

[goku262002]

Yeah this isn't "One More Day" or even STH2006 bad.

Take it up with Bumbleking if you got legitimate complaints man, Ian is there 1/2 the time anyways, maybe you can get a straight answer out of him as to why hes not focusing on other places ATM.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I just read the last paragraph on Turbojet's post about Eggman...why can't we have an Eggman that awesome in the games?

Really, if you ask me, the best I would guess is because there's so much to balance out as he carries the plot along. To be fair, he has written some space with the Death Egg MkII so that Eggman can be a global threat again, and a mobile one at that. In the past, it was mostly stuck with the battles being between the Eggman Empire and Knothole/New Megapolis, with little deviance from that. Now we're going a more global route, as Eggman has been around the world and things are currently heading towards Albion.

Maybe that's not enough of an explanation, but I think it would definitely cut Ian some slack regarding why he's been focusing on one part of the world...although, yeah, he should definitely branch out more. I think he's currently doing that, but still...

[Dejablue]

Ever since the egg grape incident Charmy has been a little loopy. And the other Chaotix consider him ill. So I don't think he's even allowed to go anywhere alone. Which makes sense. Also like someone else said. The kingdom Charmy was going to rule in the future was utterly decimated. and Charmy and Saffron are the only 2 survivors.

But I will agree that to some degree, the Chaotix/ sans perhaps Knuckles could be more active since Eggman is on another tyranical rampage. They could be out there assisting Sonic at least.

Sonic and Sally and Peter Parker and Mary Jane are 2 different mediums? They're both comics....I mean...just sayin.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Dejablue

[Mangoaxe5]

In trying to make Archie Charmy act more like Sega Sonic Charmy Ian pretty much fucked up Archie Charmy. Archie Charmy is now a fucking retard. Storywise there's nothing that can really be done with Archie Charmy now. He's useless.

[Dejablue]

I think eventually he'll get better. When ? I have no idea.

[Mangoaxe5]

I really don't think that Ian has any plans to fix Charmy.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a "blunder." (and, yes, I realize there might be a bias there) We've been consistent with the change, and the Chaotix still deal with it to some degree (see: STH#212).

But I will agree it didn't get the amount of follow-up it should have to have had the maximum impact, and my hands are tied there. I managed to slip a plot point in when the nature of the book doesn't allow me to fully investigate it, so it will remain the elephant in the room.

The change was necessary, though, I'll stand by that. Charmy will be recognized by game players more than he will be by comic readers; that's just numerical fact. An eighteen-year-old crown prince of a ruined kingdom engaged to his childhood sweetheart just cannot be reconciled with six year old hyper-child.

So short of doing a full-blown retcon, which would be very messy, I let Eggman be the villain and rob Charmy of all he was. We had a recognizable Charmy and we put yet another point in favor of "Eggman is Evil."

Going by Ian's quote Charmy's change is here to stay.

Source for Ian's quote. http://www.bumblekin...t=3088&start=30

[Dejablue]

Ugh well that's no good in my opinion. I hope he realize that nobody likes Charmy in the games. NOBODY

Welp in that case I guess you guys were right. No way a seven year old can have a love interest. Might as well write out Saffron.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Dejablue

[Mangoaxe5]

The problem is that Ian seems to think that Charmy acting immature automatically=Game Charmy when it really doesn't. Game Charmy is immature cause he's six. Archie Charmy on the other hand is immature cause he's mentally retarded and doesn't know any better.

[Dejablue]

To me changing Charmy like this add's nothing to the narrative. And its actually kind of insensitive to do this to him just to have him utter a few funny lines to make other characters look at him funny. We already have "messed up in the head" Bean the Dynamite for that. It's a really dumb retcon and disgusting way to leave a character with no chance of recovery. On top of that not handle it in a mature light. This is something Saffron has to deal with too.

[Your Vest Friend]

What I'm hoping is that the Chaotix arc can reconcile it somewhat by giving him a plethora of new skills to use so he isn't just a mentally handicapped load to the group. Just giving him some of game!Charmy's abilities like super fast flight and natural tracking skills would do wonders for his usefulness.

[Gatestormer]

I think Ian's made the best out of a very difficult situation. The previous writers screwed up Charmy by going all out and making him some weird 18 year old prince, I mean where the hell did that come from? When SEGA brought him back for Heroes, they did something completely different (and better), now with the book's trying to get into a more SEGA Sonic vibe, things have to change for Charmy to match up. It doesn't matter if 'nobody likes Charmy in the games', the games are the main canon and the book has to try and match it's vibe as much as it can.

It's about franchise consistency, the same reason why Knuckles is now always on Angel Island, there's now only 7 emeralds, Eggman's a complete nut, Snively's been replaced by Orbot & Cubot and Sonic's name of Maurice is never, ever brought up. It's just a shame that Charmy had been driven into a very, very tight spot. It's practically impossible to make a character change that much without something drastic, and I think Ian did alright in getting out of a tough spot.

I think it's best that it's not brought up again and everyone in the book just deals with Charmy how he is now.

[Toby]

People care about Charmy?

[Dejablue]

according to his post he did it to reconcile with the game's charmy and I'm like really? rrrreeeaaalllly?

In that case he's gotta kill all the freedom fighters. They're not in the games. Kill Big too since he's retired. In fact kill everyone. End this entire series. Restart the Sonic X comic and kill off Chris Thorndyke and the other humans. And I think mostly everything will be reconciled.

People care about Charmy?

I cared about him as soon as the Egg Grape incident happened. I was sure Ian was going to go somewhere with it. But for the longest time I was wrong. So I am disappointed.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Dejablue

[Your Vest Friend]

The previous writers screwed up Charmy by going all out and making him some weird 18 year old prince, I mean where the hell did that come from?

Blame the localisation for Knuckles Chaotix for that one. He was 16 in the American manual while his age was unlisted in Japan (while everyone else was the opposite). Fleetway made him an adult prince too because of it, although he started out as a complete ditz anyway so all he needed to reconcile was a wardrobe change.

In Japan, he could have been an adult, but he was hanging out with elementary school-aged kids in the Manga he came from so it's more likely that he was closer to their age. Thus, the wharf that developed when his youth was made clear as day in Heroes.

[turbojet]

>One More Day bad

*throws hands in air

Fuck this, I'm bailing out of this argument

One More Day was bad because it was terrible writing and expected the reader to just accept the solution or explanation at hand despite the uncountable flaws with said solution and explanation. Ian is doing the latter of the two here which kind of makes it bad writing, but whatever. If Eggman, White Echidna guy, or any other super genius has the ambition to do something, they should be constant at it. Eggman has to be a bloody moron to not see the value in the Master Emerald. WEG is a moron for allowing technology that he is an expert on to be in the hands of some brutes who are still somewhat in the Dark Ages in comparison. The games have an excuse since they release a Sonic game every 1 or 2 years(if you aren't counting Sonic 4 or mini titles). I'm going by the parameters that the comic presents me. Unlike the games, it gives Sonic an incentive to travel besides doing it for fun. Yet we always get stuck in Acorn(I am tired of typing out the city's name. It is an obnoxious ass name) every other issue or another generic looking tree place just for fuck's sake. It is a world conquest and there is more than one villain in it and all of which are pretty capable. Yet Sonic has to be sent to other places or have a reason to go to these places to have any investment in them instead of coming along them like he fucking should be.

Yeah this isn't "One More Day" or even STH2006 bad.

Take it up with Bumbleking if you got legitimate complaints man, Ian is there 1/2 the time anyways, maybe you can get a straight answer out of him as to why hes not focusing on other places ATM.

Yeah, don't ask me to write in that hornet's nest.

I just read the last paragraph on Turbojet's post about Eggman...why can't we have an Eggman that awesome in the games?

Really, if you ask me, the best I would guess is because there's so much to balance out as he carries the plot along. To be fair, he has written some space with the Death Egg MkII so that Eggman can be a global threat again, and a mobile one at that. In the past, it was mostly stuck with the battles being between the Eggman Empire and Knothole/New Megapolis, with little deviance from that. Now we're going a more global route, as Eggman has been around the world and things are currently heading towards Albion.

Maybe that's not enough of an explanation, but I think it would definitely cut Ian some slack regarding why he's been focusing on one part of the world...although, yeah, he should definitely branch out more. I think he's currently doing that, but still...

The problem is that he focuses on one area which is no more important than the rest. As a matter of fact, some of these places are definitely more important than that one place. I seriously want his minions to pose that question to him. Why bother so much with one rinky-dink village when you have 2/3s of the world? Why are we in this stupid area? Hell, what do these people actually do? There is no culture here? I say that because it seems every other place has an identifiable resource and identity. So why bother with these generic people who seem to defeat themselves more than you defeat them? To feed his insatiable ego? Yeah, I doubt that because even Eggman knows when to stop as shown now since he is retreating.

Eggman has eleven stations looking to secure or are securing regions in the world. None of which are Acorn or Albion unless the latter is in those regions and I'm guessing Lien-da is the Grandmaster for Albion. That is eleven villains and all of which could give Sonic a run for his money. Setting up a Freedom Fighter team in every region diminishes how exceptional Sonic is and how much of a threat Eggman is. If I were Ian, I would have reports being tacked on every so often that every Freedom Fighter Team that Sonic is not in is losing to the opposing forces. It creates an atmosphere of constant and escalating danger and rids the book of those pesky moments where Sonic can just go on a date with Sally because Eggman and the rest of the world just stopped moving for them. I want to see the Raiju and action, not just running around and training and doing fuck all, but trying to conquer the Dragon Kingdom. I want to see Killer Whales owning when Sonic is not there. In all honesty, every person that does not have Shadow, Sonic, Silver, Team Dark as a whole, Knuckles, a few of Chaotix in their ranks should be royally fucked over even if Eggman is not there.

Ever since the egg grape incident Charmy has been a little loopy. And the other Chaotix consider him ill. So I don't think he's even allowed to go anywhere alone. Which makes sense. Also like someone else said. The kingdom Charmy was going to rule in the future was utterly decimated. and Charmy and Saffron are the only 2 survivors.

But I will agree that to some degree, the Chaotix/ sans perhaps Knuckles could be more active since Eggman is on another tyranical rampage. They could be out there assisting Sonic at least.

Sonic and Sally and Peter Parker and Mary Jane are 2 different mediums? They're both comics....I mean...just sayin.

That was my entire point.

No, the franchises are two different mediums. Look when you think of Sonic, you don't think comic books. Spider-man is multiple things , but he is known for comic books. In every single one, Mary Jane is important and is somewhat of the second role in almost every issue, movie, game, and book that the plot demands that she be in. Sally's entire lingering importance to this franchise is this comic book. Mary Jane is a tool(and a damn effective one) to help the reader grasp that yes, Peter Parker has a life outside of red and blue tights and yes, he has other responsibilities. Sally is fanservice. Plain and simple. Her dialogue with Sonic is not resembling a couple arguing, but some lady who is nowhere near on the same caliber or capability as Sonic giving him commands on where and when to attack. Yes, they exchange snarks, but so what? Sonic is sarcastic with everybody. You can't compare Sonic to a super hero in this comic because he is not one or has never been one. He is a soldier. An insubordinate one, but a soldier nonetheless.

[Your Vest Friend]

RE: The minion stuff; Eggman not being in their area actually works to the advantage of most of them since they have free reign to conquer an area they've always wanted to (and it would be what they've always wanted to, since most Grandmasters were already native to their given area) however they want to. A lot of their evil scheming and backstabbing and action goes on without Eggman's notice in order to maximise their chance of betraying him, since that seems to be the ultimate goal of most of them.

[Sega DogTagz]

Or Ian contently forgets that it could be a problem. Finn....what's his name has been interested in warp ring tech before and no one on Knothole kingdom is an expert on them or can even be considered a genius to use them.

Of course no one in Knothole is an expert in Warp Ring tech. Its built right out of the chaos energies built up inside the master emerald and the chaos force.

Just because the author does not even consider the problems with his plot devices does not mean we should just accept them as they are. Tell me how 2 super geniuses(3 counting Eggman Nega) have not exploited instant transportation when a bunch of wood creatures with no real level of expertise have and only use it to go to Angel Island.

Your reaching to find a problem which isn’t even there. Doc Finitivus is an expert because he was a scientist who O.D.’ed on Knuckles Chaos powers and had extensive time to study the Master Emerald.

Until Tails, Eggman or Nega lock themselves in a room with the Master Emerald, and get the chance to study its connection to a user, you can’t possibly expect them to figure out how warp rings work. Super Genius or not.

The only reason Knuckles has a warp ring is because Doc F. gave one to Locke and didn’t take it back after the old timer bit the dust. Knuckles as it currently stands, only really uses it to go back and forth between Albion and Angel Island.

And to be completely fair, Eggy has nailed teleportation tech already. Just not the mystical warp ring variant.

It tells me, the reader, that the smartest people in this universe are stupid for not figuring it out or exploiting it, Acorn and Angel Island folks are a bunch of selfish bastards for not sharing it with the world since it gives them a hefty security measure which you just said neither of them really need, and the mechanics of this world is broken. How do the Warp Rings work? Magic has rules.

1. At the moment, the only one capable of sharing that tech is Doc F. He’s the only one who can understand it
   
   
2. He won’t do that unless it benefits him
   
   
3. Warp Ring tech comes from a manipulation of the Chaos Force and the Master Emerald. The only people on the planet even remotely capable of full-on manipulation of Chaos in such a manner are Doc. F, Knuckles, Shadow and maybe Mammoth Mogul. These are the only guys that could be described as “living chaos emeralds” (and that might even be a stretch for Shadow). Only 1 of those guys is a scientist. Magic has rules and only 1 guy has the knowledge and the means to understand them.
   

He would not have to use fuel for his bi-plane if they placed warp rings in every village or destination important enough to mention. It is why we no longer really travel on horseback and carriage anymore.

Horse and Carriage became obsolete when the world became able to mass produce automobiles.

Until such a time Warp Rings become mass produced (i.e. when Doc F. feels like sharing) and spread out to the world, I think Tails should be pretty content to keep his biplane.

Doctor Finitivius is a fucking idiot. No really. He knows how they work more than anybody else so he knows how to use them. So he willfully allows his sworn enemies to use it when they really have no clue how it works and just know that it transports them to a place.

I call bull. If one thing is clear to Doc F, its that the Master Emerald is incredibly valuable to him and his future plans. If the Warp Ring helps Knuckles and the Chaotix keep it safe in the short term, then letting Knux keep the ring is simply an investment in his own future success.

Doc F could probably care less that Knuckles has a Warp Ring. He keeps his plans secret enough that his echidna brethren is no real threat to him, and any carnage Knuckles uses the warp ring for probably only helps Finitivus in the long run.

Doc F is no idiot. He’s just playing the game with a long term perspective. As he should considering his apocalyptic end game.

Until the Chameleon Clan calls him back so his loyalties are still with them, and he can still do as he pleases until Knuckles actually needs him.

Espio’s loyalty of course still lies with his clan. But he was ordered to return to his post and act as he saw fit.

His post was pretty much a rendition of “Quis custodiet ipsos custodes”, so to expect him to leave Angel Island because he felt like it is fairly foolish. Unless duty calls or another personal matter, that’s where he needs to be in order to do his job.

Both sound like a rather convenient excuse for the author to not use characters or just have them on the island. Charmy's impairment does not prevent him from exploring and Vector's does not prevent him from doing anything else.

We don’t know the details on Vectors exodus yet, so I won’t comment too much on that… but you have to be kidding me if you think Chary’s condition doesn’t hinder his freedoms. That kid needs to be under constant surveillance these days.

Bullshit. Eggman is willing to expend tons of resources on a village that is guarded by 3 teams of extremely capable fighters for literally no explained reason. He has most of the world under his thumb and the remaining of which is not only more resourcefully important, but tactically more capable since they don't have a physical 3 Gods guarding them(He does not know about Silver yet, but Naugus and Sonic are more than enough to deter him if Angel Island gets that excuse). All of which could hand Chaotix their asses on any front if a battle between them ever broke out(This would make for an awesome arc). Eggman was willing to risk attacking an area he knows Shadow, Rouge, and Omega are in just to prove a point. Eggman attacked two nation states on the pursuit of Snively(one of which had an army that was comparable to his) and won easily. So don't give me that crap that Eggman just fears Knuckles and Chaotix and the Master Emerald is better guarded than those or any villain just thinks the Master Emerald is not worth because he is there if they are willing to attack Sonic's place or go around Sonic's place knowing who is there for no real reason(Team Hooligan risked it, The Battle Bird Amarda risked it, and Naugus is risking it). And don't think for a second you can use "well, warp rings can bring those three teams to Angel Island" card. Mobotropolis was attacked when Sally got roboticized and Knuckles had no damn clue until Sonic told him. If Eggman attacked Angel Island with the same veracity as he did before, Angel Island would be his and that gemstone would have been long gone.

So, Eggy can attack whenever he wants. Fair enough.

But that doesn’t shoot down my point. Perhaps the reason every lowlife on Mobius doesn’t target the M.E. is because it is so heavily guarded. Having a squad that capable guarding keeps the Nack’s and the Lien-Da's of the world at bay. That’s incentive enough to have the Chaotix around, as the emerald falling into the wrong hands has some very serious side effects.

Ian has never thought of that. Flynn focuses on one area and expects the entire world to revolve around it when we know that there are other places.

I still don’t get how you can even consider this a rational thought. The sheer volume of places that Sonic and Eggman have traveled to in the last 40-50 issues is staggering. The focus is constantly shifting, yet you seem to insist that the entire cast never got two steps outside of castle acorn before retreating back to the comforts of home.

I suppose you just ignored chapters of D.E.L. sprouting up across the world behind our heroes backs? Because I’m pretty sure the world wasn’t sitting still when that happened. Chaotix showed up in Downunda *bam* look what happened while you were gone - Cyborg platapus army everywhere. Take a trip over to Sandblast City *kapow* look what Eggman did while you played hero elsewhere - Cyborg bunnies multiplying like.... er... bunnies.

Your asking for cake and ignoring the 3 servings in front of you.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Sega DogTagz

[Dejablue]

Arg I don't know why I'm bugged about Charmy so much. I didn't really give a darn about him until he got his brains scrambled. Why? Because I was awaiting something worth while to spring from it. Some amazing character development just for the Chaotix. But instead Ian has pretty much said "Well lol I sorta had something in mind but I didn't get a chance to do it so fuck it" Like an artist saying he's about to paint the mona lisa but gives up right after he sharpens the pencil. Actually this is a bit worse because he won't fix what he broke. And it just...I mean until now I had assumed "Well I'm sure he'll fix Charmy and development will come with this road to recovery and it will be amazing because one thing I think Ian is good at is making shit characters awesome or at least interesting. " But no.....just.....no. Le Sigh....

And he really isn't like his game counter part that much except for I dunno, this new "child like persona" he supposedly has and the fact that apparently he can't really be counted on to handle something alone which explains Saffron's presence. He's just loopy not irritating and annoying and this change hasn't really done anything to benefit the Chaotix or Charmy himself. To me Ian took a bland character and just made him worse thus making the Chaotix worse. He may as well have just killed him. But I'm just ranting now. They haven't gotten their SU issue yet. I hope to see something promising for the group even if Charmy is stuck like this forever.

[MachSpeed]

I really dislike the Sonic comics. What's with those dumb characters like Sally and that Walrus? What the hell? xD It's not even Sonic, darn Archie xD