Sonic Adventure PSN/XBLA Port

[Tyranno]

Yes, Aqua. it's amazing what fans can do with an unrealistic development proccess that they completely control.

[Aquaslash]

Don't give me that, fool. The fans do this in their spare time, while Sega's got people pulling 9 to 5s on this or worse. You mean to well me that professional developers can't do in a work day what one fan figured out in roughly an hour, if even that! (widescreen)

Hell, if I was going to work and getting paid to import that Metal Sonic model, I'd have finished it WEEKS ago. It's not hard at all (just time consuming, lol testing)

Even so! When unpaid fans start doing things that make professional devs look bad, that's a problem. Or do I need to bring up the fact that one man made a better Sonic 1 GBA port than an entire dev team.

[Tyranno]

I sincerely doubt that a fan figured all of that in an hour, considering I've seen romhacks of Genesis games take longer to develop.

And please, do you have to call me names? What purpose does that even serve?

[Aquaslash]

Most ROM hacks end up being total conversions, made by people putting things together bit by bit in their spare time. I'll say right now that if my own hack, S Factor were on a professional dev schedule, it'd have been finished years ago.

Anywho, the widescreen thing was dealt with fairly quickly IMO. Something involving changing a byte or too in the ini...or somewhere. I forgot, but I watched it all go down elsewhere.

Also, the only delays in the new models were getting the exporter ready and me having to learn how to model. Nothing the pros should have to worry about, they already know how to model and have the needed software.

Another thing, the in level Super Sonic was done extremely quickly. One person made a list of all the necessary addresses and had a semi functional version with cheat engine, and a programmer who knew C just rolled around and had it full on implemented less than a week later. Said programmer THEN did Super Sonic specific missions, JUST as a proof of concept.

If the fans can get these things done in relatively short order, again, for no pay at all, what's the pro's possible excuse. Especially the widescreen thing. I don't even have an HDTV, and I still say there's no excuse for not doing it.

This whole thing is just an extremely lazy port. There's no way around that.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Aquaslash

[Tyranno]

I'm not even saying I think it's a good port. I just think using fan productions as a point of comparison to be a fallacy.

[Aquaslash]

Well, you know there's a problem when the subject has to even come up =P

[Tyranno]

Eh. TF fans are always touting fan productions and kitbashes as what toys should be like, when they have no real world limitations put on them beyond the time and energy they put into it. And in this day and age, what people can do with technology both professionally and nonprofessionally has a narrower gap than it used to. The new differences come down to marketing, budget, and a variety of factors.

In some cases, what fans end up capable of, it's justified. In other cases it's just plain arrogant.

[Aquaslash]

You'll notice I haven't been at All Spark as much as I used to (I blame the movies for that). I think it all boils down to effort. The situation with toys I think is quite different, lots of factors on both sides there.

However with things like this, I think the fan reaction/touting is justified. Not so much on the models and stuff but definitely the widescreen. I think that's a big thing to be screwing around with and failing. Especially if the fans endeavors with widescreen were to spread. That's potential customers lost right there.

Though this makes is quite obvious who is targeted here. I hope they don't expect any glowing reviews though XD

EDIT: Oh, and this whole fan argument from my side assumes that the fans are coming up with actual QUALITY things. Examples would be the widescreen, super in levels, Sonic 1 GBA, actual high poly model porting, etc. We all know some fans are pretentious and like to call their doo doo "LOLBETTERTHANSEGA"

Edited June 17, 2010 by Aquaslash

[Tyranno]

I suppose part of me is just tired of people waving faux experience and their FG's as proof they know better. I'm sorry for jumping off that short pier, at least.

[Aquaslash]

Yeah I can dig it. You're totally justified in that. We both should have been clearer I guess (and I could always be less impulsive/hostile in these things. XD)

Edited June 17, 2010 by Aquaslash

[DistantJ]

Am I the only one here with priorities? No widescreen = oh well (anybody who really wants no borders should rest assured that there's probably a 'stretch' option since the Crazy Taxi screens are clearly stretched). 8-direction PC keyboard controls on a console with analog = totally not okay... And this footage has Sonic moving in 8 directions, not 360 degrees. I'm amazed nobody else has said anything about this... This is game-breaking if it's not fixed. Also, look at the draw distance - about 10ft. straight from the PC version. I think I may grab a Gamecube pad instead...

Edited June 17, 2010 by DistantJ

[Gamerguy21]

Am I the only one here with priorities? No widescreen = oh well (anybody who really wants no borders should rest assured that there's probably a 'stretch' option since the Crazy Taxi screens are clearly stretched). 8-direction PC keyboard controls on a console with analog = totally not okay... And this footage has Sonic moving in 8 directions, not 360 degrees. I'm amazed nobody else has said anything about this... This is game-breaking if it's not fixed.

Yeah, I agree. I can't believe I didn't notice the controls while watching the leaked footage. See how jerky and badly those people playing at E3 are? That's most likely due to the 8-direction control...

I really hope that it's fixed in the final game. I mean, this comes out in the same time frame as Sonic 4. Since they're apparently fixing stuff in that game, they still have just as much time to add 360 degree control to this game. (although that doesn't necessarily mean they will, unfortunately...)

[DistantJ]

I think it depends on who is porting it. We do seem to have two halves of SEGA which handle Sonic... The ones who put all the care and effort in the world into the games (even the bad ones, bar 06, it's clear a lot of time and effort go into them) and the ones who just don't bother (Sonic Genesis GBA, stuff like that)... They should have given this port to Backbone entertainment or something.

However the ESRB (or whatever) ratings thing showed both Sonic Adventure DX and just Sonic Adventure - not sure if that means SA is the Dreamcast one or if they just gave DX the original name, but if both are on offer I would certainly get the non-DX one as it would obviously be ported straight from the Dreamcast. Perhaps Sonic Adventure is going up as a Dreamcast game (being that they said there was a series of Dreamcast games coming to download services) with SADX going up as a separate game (as in not part of the Dreamcast series)? I dunno, but I certainly hope they sort this out, else I'm getting a Wavebird controller and going with the Gamecube version, which has the framerate troubles and doesn't look so good on an HDTV

[eXtaticus]

This whole thing is just an extremely lazy port. There's no way around that.

What really gets my metaphorical goat is, in fact, not the sheer laziness that the porters have exhibited when transferring this game from its native platform to the 360, and neither that they appear to have less skill than the fans who are supposed to buy this tripe when it finally sees the light of day; what bugs and astonishes me is the fact that, through all of Sonic Adventure's many re-releases and theoretical "improvements", the game has ended up far, far worse than how it was upon first release. If the graphical degradation and restrictive freedom of movement weren't enough, we've had to put up with horrendous rendering glitches in the GameCube iteration, (see the polygon separation on Sonic's arms for an example) serious collision detection bugs on both the PC and GameCube conversions, (although this - judging by the previews, at least - seems to have been fixed for the Xbox release - thank god for small mercies) and now massive purple borders, accompanied by very, very poor pixel upscaling. I'm rather bamboozled (and, indeed, angered) by how the greatest game of all time has been mutilated and transformed in a total turd-heap by alterations and tweaks that were supposed to make it better.

Yet SEGA still expect us to act like they've just shat gold. Madness.

[Aquaslash]

Yet SEGA still expect us to act like they've just shat gold. Madness.

A solid point in the whole post, and this is probably the most offensive thing of all. Frankly we shouldn't even be HAVING these discussions. Instead we should be drooling over the possible bug fixes and new features or whatever

Right?

[eXtaticus]

we should be drooling over the possible bug fixes and new features or whatever

Right?

Wrong; there were more than enough bugfixes in Sonic Adventure International, and I haven't yet seen many of these "new features" of which you speak in the upcoming Xbox release. If you ask me, SEGA wouldn't have had so much trouble making the game look and play decently if they'd have used the already brilliant Dreamcast iteration as a base, rather than trying to build upon the buggy mess that is the PC version of DX; at least they would have started with something good - why use a swamp as a foundation for a castle when there's a perfectly good slab of rock-hard cement next to it?

It just doesn't make any sense - unless, of course, it's harder to port Dreamcast games to the 360 than it is to port PC games. But hell; that never stopped SEGA from bringing out Rez HD, did it?

Edited June 19, 2010 by Extaticus

[Aquaslash]

I think you partially missed the point. The "new features" bit was a theoretical one. They COULD be adding new things to the game, the the things DX added, except these things could possibly not suck.

ALSO, the bug fixes in international are debatable at best.

Edited June 19, 2010 by Aquaslash

[Detective Shadzter]

Chao Garden confirmed, shame there's no portable to raise them on.

http://seganerds.thekartel.com/blog/2010/06/18/sonic_adventure_and_crazy_taxi_on_xbla_and_psn_includes_some_nice_bonuses

[Saint Nathan]

Chao Garden confirmed, shame there's no portable to raise them on.

http://seganerds.thekartel.com/blog/2010/06/18/sonic_adventure_and_crazy_taxi_on_xbla_and_psn_includes_some_nice_bonuses

Whoa whoa whoa.

Look at the wording on all of that. Look at how it flows.

Are SEGA hiring five year olds now?

[Scar]

Whoa whoa whoa.

Look at the wording on all of that. Look at how it flows.

Are SEGA hiring five year olds now?

I'm pretty sure thats a mock-up. At least it reads like one.

Anyway.

To take an interesting spin on the whole "lazy port" issue.

Think of it this way:

If the SA1 port is shite, then it probably means that they are spending more time on making Sonic Colours and Sonic 4 and <insert name of 20th anniversary game here>.

This means they are working harder on making a new game good, rather than laboriously improving an old game.

[Aquaslash]

That's a cop out. If Sega clearly can't be arsed to put some care into this product, why should anyone be arsed to buy it?

It's not like Sonic Adventure isn't available by other easily accessible means.

[bolt7]

That's a cop out. If Sega clearly can't be arsed to put some care into this product, why should anyone be arsed to buy it?

But people will still buy it regardless, because you know- it's a Sonic game. One that's quite well known as being 'good', at that.

I was recently reading the post on Joystiq about Crazy Taxi not having the official music or store locations (like Pizza Hut etc.) They mention that the reason SA:DX isn't in widescreen is because it was much harder to alter Sonic's code than that of Crazy Taxi, so I'm guessing they just didn't bother. I really hope these shoddy versions of the old games don't sell very well. I completely agree with Aquaslash, SEGA should be putting more care into their Dreamcast classics if they're so precious to them, rather than releasing products as sloppily as this.

Also, that poorly written 'buy the full version' screen reminds me of some of the text concerning Sonic 4. Remember the horrible 'back story' thing on the official website? Even some of the menu screens in the game itself has bad punctuation, really hoping they fix it...

Edited June 21, 2010 by bolt7

[Badnik Mechanic]

I was recently reading the post on Joystiq about Crazy Taxi not having the official music or store locations (like Pizza Hut etc.) They mention that the reason SA:DX isn't in widescreen is because it was much harder to alter Sonic's code than that of Crazy Taxi, so I'm guessing they just didn't bother. I really hope these shoddy versions of the old games don't sell very well. I completely agree with Aquaslash, SEGA should be putting more care into their Dreamcast classics if they're so precious to them, rather than releasing products as sloppily as this.

The Crazy Taxi stuff has plagued the various remakes for a long time, I think the PSP version was the last one to have big problems with licensing, but getting rid of the soundtrack because they can't get the licensing back? Hmmm quite bad.

As for the Sonic Adventure stuff.

Anyone remember when Megacollection came out and we asked "Why no Sonic CD" we got the excuse, the music tracks are too hard to port over or something like that? Then around a year later we got Sonic Gems collection? I think that they had a deadline to get the goods out, the deadline was approaching, they had issues, and decided to cut the time to get the thing to fit widescreen TVs and then fire out a lame excuse.

[Carbo]

Chao Garden confirmed, shame there's no portable to raise them on.

http://seganerds.thekartel.com/blog/2010/06/18/sonic_adventure_and_crazy_taxi_on_xbla_and_psn_includes_some_nice_bonuses

Now don't take my word for it but I could have sworn that I've read an article or atleast a source around some place which confirmed that the PSN version of Sonic Adventure would have portable PSP accessibility.

[Dr. SEGA Monkey]

and decided to cut the time to get the thing to fit widescreen TVs and then fire out a lame excuse.

It's not just a lame excuse. It's a lie.

A Sonic fan on his own free time got widescreen into SADX:

Mhttp://info.sonicretro.org/SADXTweaker

Again, a Sonic fan, without getting paid, did this.