Sonic 4 Playtested By Community Member

[Phos]

When have Sonic fans ever agreed on something?

This sentiment is such a crutch, you can just say it anytime people aren't satisfied with something.

[Agent York]

This sentiment is such a crutch, you can just say it anytime people aren't satisfied with something.

I liked some of the stages in Shadow the Hedgehog and thought it was pretty good, and I didn't think Sonic Heroes was all that great, Shadow was an improvement on it. Sonic Advance 1 was the best and I prefer Sonic Adventure 1 to 2. Sonic 3 & Knuckles was amazing, Sonic 1 was boring to me. Sonic 2 was alright but not as good as Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Sonic Unleashed was good with some meh stuff. Sonic Advance 2 was a bore, so was Sonic Rush. Sonic Advance 3 was pretty cool. Sonic CD is amazing. Sonic rush Adventure was one of the best sonic games, Sonic Neo Pocket Adventure was overrated and Sonic Riders was actually a lot of fun.

Agree with me?

Hell I disagree with you saying it is a crutch. I think it's reasonable because no one is the same and I see different opinions all the time, but who's right, my opinion or your opinion? Neither, their both opinions. My opinion is not you opinion, it's my opinion. See, you're disagreeing with my opinion of saying Sonic fans have different opinions. Ironic much?

Edited February 20, 2010 by blackarms

[Pelly <3's U]

Ok, but if you're arguing like that then you can pretty much include any fandom (or actually any two people in the world).

It doesn't really dispute saying that sonic fans can't agree on anything being used as a crutch in many arguments.

[Agent York]

Ok, but if you're arguing like that then you can pretty much include any fandom (or actually any two people in the world).

But of course. People are people. My point being though is the only opinion that actually matters is your opinion, impressions are impressions, opinions are opinions.

Lay out the facts we have on this story, assuming it all is true. This guy didn't seem to have much time to play the game, he cites he had to quit playing the game and resume over and over, and he only got to the second stage from what we've seen. Is that enough to base the entire game? And with that, could his leaving in and out be factored into how "into" the game he got? And more so, is his taste in gaming the same as mine and maybe his opinion on what makes up Sonic Advance 2 is my opinion what makes up Sonic the Hedgehog 2? From what I saw of the leaked gameplay, it did not look like Advance 2 to me, but that's my opinion. I played Advance 2 after hearing this, and Leaf Forest didn't look anything in my opinion to what we have seen.

When you throw in legitimacy questions and all, and taking into consideration the fanbase will be at each others throats on their own opinions, is this guy representing us all on how we will feel towards the game? With all the variables considered of his time and pacing to play the game, could his opinion be faltered a bit by that? What does he like in Sonic games anyways, do they match up with what I like in Sonic games. I don't like Advance 2, but I am keeping an open mind if it really is like Advance 2.

I made this argument completely acknowledging I was dealing with peoples opinions, because in truth that is the only thing that matters. I am not just a pure Sonic fans, I know it's in every fanbase, but hell, there are few fanbases I have seen so split like this one.

Edited February 20, 2010 by blackarms

[Pelly <3's U]

lol I wasn't disputing anything in your previous post, I was just backing up pho's statement in a completely unrelated way

[Agent York]

lol I wasn't disputing anything in your previous post, I was just backing up pho's statement in a completely unrelated way

It's all good. XD Phos isn't wrong anyways, I might not personally agree with him but he is also right we shouldn't use this as a reason to justify disbelieving the guy, I am throwing out something to think about, but not everyone's going to agree. I personally think it's too early to make a call on the game, it isn't like these are the last impressions we will get on the game. We'll see more as time continues.

Phos is critical, and he has a right to be so. If this all if true and this game really is Sonic Advance 2 I honestly would be disappointed, However, at the same time I strongly believe every person is their own person, like anyone I agree with some and disagree with others, but believe everyone has the right of an opinion. Sonic 4 is Sonic 4 no matter how you turn it though, I'm sure we'll be hearing more from the game soon.

Actually, is there a possibility of a playable build at E3?

[Leonard]

Seriously, it's really hard to find your own posts in this shitstorm when 2 or 3 pages get added every hour. >_>

See this is what I really don't understand.

Why did Endri say that the build he played was the FINAL build, already sent off to Microsoft for approval?

I mean, he MUST have been lying about that right?

He could have just assumed the worst... or, like I said before, used poor diction. Or, could just be the language barrier.... maybe?

Didn't he note that the build he got was a "nearly finished" one, where "no significant changes" would be done anymore? I'm not sure how to interpret "significant changes" but I'm pretty sure he didn't say this was already the final build.

And assuming they really already have the final build together; what will they do the rest of the 5 months? Twiddle their thumbs?

[Carbo]

The more I look at the leaked video, the more I don't see Advance 2 styled level design, and more leaning towards the style of Sadv1. However, the gameplay still looks wonky but only because of the player spamming the jump button (like he's actually testing for bugs).

This is what I'm wondering too, that is practically what a game tester is meant to do. I have no idea who played that game or who leaked it but again, the way he fucks it up seems alot like bug searcing more than just playing for fun.

[Tornado]

Sonic fans never agree on how the games play. Some say Sonic Advance is NOTHING like the Genesis games, some thing they are a lot like them. Some think Sonic Adventure is a lot like the Genesis games, others think it was crappy new design. Some thing Sonic Adventure 2 was too linear, some think Sonic Adventure 2 was one of the most open-ended Sonic games. Some think Sonic Heroes is the 3D title most like the Genesis games, some think Sonic Heroes was too much like...Get this... ADVANCE 2. My point being.,. How do we know this view is going to be our personal view on the game? How do we know, assuming he is telling the truth, with his limited time on the game and not having time to really play it going in and out he had enough time to actually get a feel for the game, and the thing that stood out the most was the bad physics, which mind you, could be in development.

There are things that are open to interpretation, of course, but remember that there are interpretations so extreme that they are not actually valid. Everyone has a right to voice an opinion, but all opinions do not need viewed as having the same value. I realize this is a Pandora's Box that I'm opening, but just getting that out there.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Tornado

[bolt7]

Well I believe Slingerland, if I was this Endri guy and received a PM like that I'd probably shit my pants and disappear too. I think both Tweaker and Slingerland knowing him, saying he wouldn't pull this sort of thing off without good reason, convinces me enough. Have some trust in people guys rather than just jumping the gun saying 'proof or lies!' I wonder what would've happened if Endri wrote three paragraphs about how awesome the game was, it'd probably be the exact opposite! 'Awesome he's played it I can't wait now!'

Hopefully what Ruby said is true and they're still tweaking the game. I'm really turned off by the idea of the special stages though- I wish they'd thought up something new and cool, like the special stages in that Sonic XG fan-game with its gravity switching!

Edited February 20, 2010 by bolt7

[blackherox]

I've seen professional editorials that specifically mention gameplay elements that need to be in Sonic 4 for it to be acceptable that were not in the later Advance titles or the Rush games, even directly referencing how they were absent in said games.

Sure, after they announced they were making Sonic 4, and released all the media and were pretty much more than half way into development. However prior to all this, what I mentioned was being said all over the place. Especially those lists of 'what a good sonic game would be' that IGN and 1UP seemed to do. Even hen most of the elements we know are in Sonic 4, were things these professional editorials and the fans have been demanding for ages (e.g. sonic only, 2d, special sages, classic music/enironemnts, robotnik only boss etc). I certainly haven't seen a 'anit-sonic advance 2' in their agenda either.

I really don't think Sega would be able pull the wool over people's eyes, and I really don't think the game will be able to get away with the stupid shit that Advance 3 and Rush got away with.

We shall see.

[SykoTech]

I've seen professional editorials that specifically mention gameplay elements that need to be in Sonic 4 for it to be acceptable that were not in the later Advance titles or the Rush games, even directly referencing how they were absent in said games.

The difference is they weren't overly specific with said gameplay elements. Just because critics can recognize that the momentum based gameplay needs to implemented instead of boosting doesn't mean they are going to nitpick the way the physics themselves. Same goes for the level design.

If this game does have Rush physics and a ton of boost pads, none of the professional critics (or gamers in general) are going to cry like the fanbase. I gaurantee that.

As long as this game is conceptually like the classics (which it already is) the public will be pleased.

[turbojet]

I wonder what would've happened if Endri wrote three paragraphs about how awesome the game was, it'd probably be the exact opposite! 'Awesome he's played it I can't wait now!'

Even then people would ask for proof. This fanbase is part retro lovers, part modern lovers, and part both. It's like politics except nerdier and more shameful.

And what stupid shit did Rush and Advance get away with? Being fun and occupying your time? Anybody can nit-pick a game. I'm sure when Sonic 2 was around their was some fanbase that degraded that game in favor of Sonic 1. If you like one over the other, good for you. Get a cookie. I swear some people are like old baseball fans that think the curveball was the worst thing to happen to the sport.

Edited February 20, 2010 by turbojet

[Tornado]

Sure, after they announced they were making Sonic 4, and released all the media and were pretty much more than half way into development.

This is an unfair qualifier. Of course journalists started changing their tune when the official title was announced. Why wouldn't they? Calling it Sonic 4 creates expectations towards the game design that weren't a factor when it was an untitled game.

The difference is they weren't overly specific with said gameplay elements. Just because critics can recognize that the momentum based gameplay needs to implemented instead of boosting doesn't mean they are going to nitpick the way the physics themselves. Same goes for the level design.

Incorrect. Here is just one example, off the top of my head:

The movement in the trailer here is almost identical to that found in Sonic Rush on DS. It's slower (see the 'good things' below), sure, but that incline after the twist doesn't seem to slow Sonic in the slightest.

Linky.

That sounds like a very specific criticism of the game to me. I've seen similar dissection on other gaming sites.

If this game does have Rush physics and a ton of boost pads, none of the professional critics (or gamers in general) are going to cry like the fanbase. I gaurantee that.

I certainly haven't seen a 'anit-sonic advance 2' in their agenda either.

From the link above:

If you give people everything all of the time, it loses its impact. It's the 15-minute guitar solo syndrome. If you play Sonic 1, you'll notice how the speedy sections are carefully rationed, interspersed with hardcore platforming. Just look at how great the Labyrinth Zone's waterslide bits were. Compared to the mega-slow underwater action, they were like a theme park ride.

Not anti-Advance 2 so much as anti-Rush, but you get the point. And, for what little it may be worth, I seem to recall Yahtzee specifically stating the very same problem in his Sonic Unleashed review.

And what stupid shit did Rush and Advance get away with? Being fun and occupying your time? Anybody can nit-pick a game. I'm sure when Sonic 2 was around their was some fanbase that degraded that game in favor of Sonic 1. If you like one over the other, good for you. Get a cookie. I swear some people are like old baseball fans that think the curveball was the worst thing to happen to the sport.

A hippopotamus could choke on the amount of words you put in my mouth.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Tornado

[SykoTech]

Linky.

Lol. You do realize that the article says "things no normal person would spot", right? It's coming from a "Sonic-mad" (read: fanboy) editor who even goes as far as talking about the size of the rings. Quite a bad example there.

Give me a link which has critics from places like IGN, GameSpot, and GameTrailers that are going to analyze like that then we'll talk. But I'll tell you right now, very few (if any) normal profession reviewers are going to do such a thing.

[Phos]

I liked some of the stages in Shadow the Hedgehog and thought it was pretty good, and I didn't think Sonic Heroes was all that great, Shadow was an improvement on it. Sonic Advance 1 was the best and I prefer Sonic Adventure 1 to 2. Sonic 3 & Knuckles was amazing, Sonic 1 was boring to me. Sonic 2 was alright but not as good as Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Sonic Unleashed was good with some meh stuff. Sonic Advance 2 was a bore, so was Sonic Rush. Sonic Advance 3 was pretty cool. Sonic CD is amazing. Sonic rush Adventure was one of the best sonic games, Sonic Neo Pocket Adventure was overrated and Sonic Riders was actually a lot of fun.

Agree with me?

The reason why one fan likes a given Sonic game and the reason why someone else does not are seldom the same reason. You might know that I don't like Unleashed. I'm going to assume you like Unleashed because it's fast. I don't dislike it because its fast, I dislike it because that's all you do. These are not irreconcilable differences.

Lol. You do realize that the article says "things no normal person would spot", right? It's coming from a "Sonic-mad" (read: fanboy) editor who even goes as far as talking about the size of the rings. Quite a bad example there.

And he called it. Once the footage leaked, it was plain as day to anyone who makes the simplest comparison between the classic physics and Sonic 4 that they are not the same. I also love your Ad hominem.

Give me a link which has critics from places like IGN, GameSpot, and GameTrailers that are going to analyze like that then we'll talk.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gt-pop-block-modern-warfare/47370

[Remy]

dislike it because that's all you do. These are not irreconcilable differences.

Don't forget the Werehog and hubs, mang!

[Phos]

Don't forget the Werehog and hubs, mang!

I'd rather not go to the trouble of qualifying that every time.

[Rusty Spy]

Once the footage leaked, it was plain as day to anyone who makes the simplest comparison between the classic physics and Sonic 4 that they are not the same.

Except we haven't seen any clear as day use of physics at all. Everything is too vague besides the jump and possible running acceleration to get an accurate idea of what the physics are really like. Of course, not saying that there's a stronger possibility of the physics NOT being the same, just saying that it's a little too soon to know exactly.

[azoo]

Yeah, really. All we've seen is walking, jumping, jumping, homing attack, jump off ledge thus making what looks to be a MOON JUMP, jump, jump, homing attack, walk some, run into wall, walk, jump, homing attack into wall, repeat last part three times, herp derp.

There's no way to tell what the physics are if all the guy is doing is jumping.

[SykoTech]

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gt-pop-block-modern-warfare/47370

CoD is on a whole different level than a this. And that was more of a nerdy overview just to give fanboys every little detail, not a critical review.

My point still stands. If the game launches with Rush physics and Sonic can still do things like stand on slopes, very few (if any) professional critics are going to bitch about that like the fanbase. It's going to be Super Smash Bros Brawl all over again.

[Phos]

CoD is on a whole different level than a this. And that was more of a nerdy overview just to give fanboys every little detail, not a critical review.

My point still stands. If the game launches with Rush physics and Sonic can still do things like stand on slopes, very few (if any) professional critics are going to bitch about that like the fanbase. It's going to be Super Smash Bros Brawl all over again.

I've seen critics call platformer on having bad physics all the time. Case in point: Sonic 06.

[Rusty Spy]

I've seen critics call platformer on having bad physics all the time. Case in point: Sonic 06.

But those were too awful to ignore by the average gamer. I wouldn't know, but I'm pretty sure critics didn't call the Rushes out on having awkward physics.

[turbojet]

I've seen critics call platformer on having bad physics all the time. Case in point: Sonic 06.

All the platformers you use to prove your point, you use one of the shittiest? Just saying.

[Phos]

But those were too awful to ignore by the average gamer. I wouldn't know, but I'm pretty sure critics didn't call the Rushes out on having awkward physics.

Indeed they didn't, or at least not to my knowledge, but I suspect that they'll notice them when you can't just use the boost to get through.

Edit: I also recall critics citing one of the versions of Vexx as having bad control. I think it was one of those Playstation specific magazines, but it's been a while.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Phos