Sonic Frontiers Leaks & Spoilers Thread - PLEASE READ OP

[Zoomzeta]

1 minute ago, Zoomzeta said:

Ok...I think the point of that cutscene was that, despite Tails' flaws, he still managed to do well on his own and even saved him on several occasions. You guys are reading way too much into something that is meant to highlight Tails' life thus far. 

For better or worst of course. An unfortunate case of having to make sense of a character's characterization due to so many changing hands having a go at him for so many decades, something Flynn I'm assuming is too familiar with. 

[StaticMania]

3 minutes ago, Zoomzeta said:

You guys are reading way too much into something that is meant to highlight Tails' life thus far. 

I think this is the right level of reading into a scene...considering the point is made in the scene itself.

[Zoomzeta]

Just now, StaticMania said:

I think this is the right level of reading into a scene...considering the point is made in the scene itself.

Mmhhh. Yep. 

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

  Hide contents

Chaos was already a mutant chao, he was already "demystified" by the lore itself.

 

Spoiler

Yeah that's like, one line buried in a character profile well outside the actual game, that provides a little extra context that aligns with what happens in the game ("oh he's protective of the chao because they're literally family, and hey the chaos chao looks like him so it makes sense").

They didn't add in a whole fucking alien civilization.

[Dr. Mechano]

Spoiler

At this point I don't even care if he's the main villain. I almost don't want him to be this time.

Just give us more good Eggdad content.

 

[Kuzu]

Just now, Dr. Mechano said:

  Reveal hidden contents

At this point I don't even care if he's the main villain. I almost don't want him to be this time.

Just give us more good Eggdad content.

Metal Sonic is in shambles right now.....

 

 

They're really leaning into the whole "Neon Genesis Evangelion" angle.....oh boy.

[Zoomzeta]

1 minute ago, Dr. Mechano said:

  Hide contents

At this point I don't even care if he's the main villain. I almost don't want him to be this time.

Just give us more good Eggdad content.

Ok? Pretty certain it was clear he wasn't the primary antagonist this time around. 

[Kuzu]

2 minutes ago, Zoomzeta said:

Ok? Pretty certain it was clear he wasn't the primary antagonist this time around. 

Uuuuuhhhhhhhhh

Spoiler

Sage is working for him, so yea he kind of is

 

[Dr. Mechano]

1 minute ago, Kuzu said:

Uuuuuhhhhhhhhh

  Hide contents

Sage is working for him, so yea he kind of is

Spoiler

I mean, maybe.

Final boss might be something related to the Ancients or something, too early to tell.

 

[Zoomzeta]

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

  Hide contents

Yeah that's like, one line buried in a character profile well outside the actual game, that provides a little extra context that aligns with what happens in the game ("oh he's protective of the chao because they're literally family, and hey the chaos chao looks like him so it makes sense").

They didn't add in a whole fucking alien civilization.

I think you're reading too much into it. We understand that Chaos (and by extension the Chao I am assuming) were not native to Earth. At some point, they came to live in the planet after their world's destruction, established a civilization, but then something went wrong that caused them to evolved into the state they are now.

Some millennium later, one of the Chao made contact with the emeralds and mutated into the being known as Chaos, which took on the form of their ancestors, but incredibly beefed up by the emeralds' power. Explaining his feasts during and before the events of Adventure 1. 

Am I reading this correctly, or am I far off? 

[Kuzu]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I mean, maybe.

Final boss might be something related to the Ancients or something, too early to tell.

He is literally the main instigator of the game. Idc if he's the final boss or not. Stop this. 

[Dr. Mechano]

Just now, Kuzu said:

He is literally the main instigator of the game. Idc if he's the final boss or not. Stop this. 

Okay! Just for clarification I wasn't trying to be argumentative or pedantic though. My bad!

[SSF1991]

5 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Well,  without really speaking into any serious story spoilers to keep the experience,  it seems that those who were set to dislike the game, certainly dislike it.

To be honest, this is even less surprising than the game leaking.

It's rare for a person to change their minds on a video game. If they didn't like what they were seeing when the game was first revealed, it's more than likely that they won't like what they see when the game is released.

[The Deleter]

Regarding the lore stuff:

Spoiler

I dunno how it will be handled in the game, as the most I've seen out of it is the super Sonic cutscene and various images, but

1. I am VERY happy I was right about the starfall islands coming from spaceship bits and pieces, very vindicating and the first time a piece of Sonic lore has actually leaned into the angle I was hoping for from the drop. Hopefully the in-game content delivers on this angle as well in terms of lore; more mythology for the Sonic universe is great when handled right

2. Being "related" to Chaos... eeeeh it might work, it might not; I like how apparently they didn't create the Chaos Emeralds themselves, and were drawn to the Master Emerald to begin with, meaning the emeralds are a more primordial element than even they are, but we'll see. On the other hand, it gives even more significance to the Artificial Chaos projects SA2 was exploring, as rather Gerald focusing on a single monster, he might have been attempting to recreate the original species outright.

3. I don't know how to feel about their story role here either. They seem pretty passive from all descriptions but I suppose that's supposed to be fitting? Especially if it rubbed off on Chaos himself, becoming a peaceful guardian of his own family. We'll see how that goes as well.

 

15 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Yeah that's like, one line buried in a character profile well outside the actual game, that provides a little extra context that aligns with what happens in the game ("oh he's protective of the chao because they're literally family, and hey the chaos chao looks like him so it makes sense").

They didn't add in a whole fucking alien civilization.

Spoiler

There's no reason why not though; a chao mutating relies as much on a headcanon as to "why" as "aliens refugees" do. The Chaos Emeralds have time and time again proven to be agnostic, so "the gods gave Chaos his powers" is just as glorified of a headcannon as "a Chao absorbed the DNA of an alien race and became a guardian of the species". Just admit that it doesn't line up with your headcanon and move on; it didn't destroy any established mythos here

 

7 minutes ago, Zoomzeta said:

I think you're reading too much into it. We understand that Chaos (and by extension the Chao I am assuming) were not native to Earth. At some point, they came to live in the planet after their world's destruction, established a civilization, but then something went wrong that caused them to evolved into the state they are now.

Some millennium later, one of the Chao made contact with the emeralds and mutated into the being known as Chaos, which took on the form of their ancestors, but incredibly beefed up by the emeralds' power. Explaining his feasts during and before the events of Adventure 1. 

Am I reading this correctly, or am I far off? 

That's not correct; the chao are native to Sonic's world. There's enough wild stuff that happens and lives on it that they don't have to be aliens. Chaos

Spoiler

was only mutated by the emeralds (supposedly) which might also translate to whatever this species' DNA was made out of

The lore in this game

Spoiler

states that the chaos-like race came from space themselves; they're "related" to chaos through DNA, but not the chao themselves

 

[StaticMania]

Headcanon only matters if you care about "any kind" of explanation.

Sometimes people just don't want stuff explained.

---

In regards to magic and mysticism, sometimes people just don't want stuff explained with space.

[ZinogreVolt]

Spoiler

If I'm reading this right, the lore introduced here doesn't really seem to change the nature of what Chaos was? Pretty much the only thing spelled out here is why he looked the way he did, which really isn't much of a big deal by itself.

 

[Zoomzeta]

11 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

To be honest, this is even less surprising than the game leaking.

It's rare for a person to change their minds on a video game. If they didn't like what they were seeing when the game was first revealed, it's more than likely that they won't like what they see when the game is released.

It was less disliked for me as much as INCREDIBLY CAUTIOUS. But to the degree I would say no to this game if it beat some of my apprehension wrong. 

9 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

Regarding the lore stuff:

  Reveal hidden contents

I dunno how it will be handled in the game, as the most I've seen out of it is the super Sonic cutscene and various images, but

1. I am VERY happy I was right about the starfall islands coming from spaceship bits and pieces, very vindicating and the first time a piece of Sonic lore has actually leaned into the angle I was hoping for from the drop. Hopefully the in-game content delivers on this angle as well in terms of lore; more mythology for the Sonic universe is great when handled right

2. Being "related" to Chaos... eeeeh it might work, it might not; I like how apparently they didn't create the Chaos Emeralds themselves, and were drawn to the Master Emerald to begin with, meaning the emeralds are a more primordial element than even they are, but we'll see. On the other hand, it gives even more significance to the Artificial Chaos projects SA2 was exploring, as rather Gerald focusing on a single monster, he might have been attempting to recreate the original species outright.

3. I don't know how to feel about their story role here either. They seem pretty passive from all descriptions but I suppose that's supposed to be fitting? Especially if it rubbed off on Chaos himself, becoming a peaceful guardian of his own family. We'll see how that goes as well.

  Reveal hidden contents

There's no reason why not though; a chao mutating relies as much on a headcanon as to "why" as "aliens refugees" do. The Chaos Emeralds have time and time again proven to be agnostic, so "the gods gave Chaos his powers" is just as glorified of a headcannon as "a Chao absorbed the DNA of an alien race and became a guardian of the species". Just admit that it doesn't line up with your headcanon and move on; it didn't destroy any established mythos here

That's not correct; the chao are native to Sonic's world. There's enough wild stuff that happens and lives on it that they don't have to be aliens. Chaos

  Hide contents

was only mutated by the emeralds (supposedly) which might also translate to whatever this species' DNA was made out of

The lore in this game

  Hide contents

states that the chaos-like race came from space themselves; they're "related" to chaos through DNA, but not the chao themselves

So Chaos was a Chao that was mutated into something ressembling the species who originally has possession of the emeralds? Like a mutant who's DNA was spliced with that of the extraterrestrial race? ....Am I looking too much into X-men lore to make sense of this? 

8 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Headcanon only matters if you care about "any kind" of explanation.

Sometimes people just don't want stuff explained.

---

In regards to magic and mysticism, sometimes people just don't want stuff explained with space.

...Half the stuff in the universe can be explained with space. Sometimes magic is explained with science, or vise-versa. If there is no space, then where do they exist in? An empty void of nothingness (And I am going on a tangent here). 

[KennethDLT]

The lore just makes me want to not get spoiled further and actually buy the game. The gameplay already is great enough, knowing that there is an interesting story underneath is just a certified buy.

Honestly surprised people here have a problem with the lore. Everything sounds good. Except the cyberspaces, which I wasn’t even interested in.

[StaticMania]

7 minutes ago, Zoomzeta said:

...Half the stuff in the universe can be explained with space. Sometimes magic is explained with science, or vise-versa. If there is no space, then where do they exist in? An empty void of nothingness (And I am going on a tangent here). 

Yes, quite the tangent.

Nothing here that would really make one feel any better in regards to a story, where worldbuilding and lore aren't the same thing.

Explanations aren't interesting for the sake of it, so lore that exists only to explain the existence of something is pointless, lore is only interesting in regards to how it relates to the narrative. I wouldn't say this new information really ruins anything in the story of SA1, but it is less interesting knowing the origin of a character just cause.

Again, stuff like this doesn't expand a universe if it comes from stuff we're already familiar with.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

It’s kind of insane that with this story being how it is, they still don’t have a Chao garden or any equivalent to it. 

[The Deleter]

35 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Headcanon only matters if you care about "any kind" of explanation.

Sometimes people just don't want stuff explained.

---

In regards to magic and mysticism, sometimes people just don't want stuff explained with space.

I can understand where that's coming from, especially considering I was worried about them midichlorian/Raava and Vaatu-ing the chaos emeralds. Simply offering a "scientific, sci-fi" "explanation" is often one of the most lame routes story writing can take.

 

Spoiler

What's shocking is how much the game apparently doesn't do that. "Everything comes from space", sure, but it's largely just expanding the scope of Sonic's universe and mythos in an actually natural way, moreso than what the black arms or Sonic Riders attempted. The chaos emeralds came from space, but they aren't explained, so they still retain their primordial mythology; and on top of that, the master emerald has apparently been on Sonic's planet for even longer than that. Not only does this mean that the typical dynamic between the chaos and master emerald is retained or even strengthened, but also kept shrouded in mystery. It also serves to integrate the Koco's original planet, and any other planet out there in the universe, under the same umbrella that chaos energy mythos is a part of, expanding the reach of Sonic's world tropes to the rest of the universe.

Chaos getting "explained" can be considered that in a way, but that's largely against mentalities and headcanons that already did not line up with the established lore to begin with. His actual history behind mutating is still largely shrouded in mystery and significance, as is his nature as a guardian and what it even means for him to be a "god" in a mythological sense. We haven't even seen if these creatures can absorb the chaos emeralds to become similar forms to what Chaos himself becomes; he's still, largely, the more monstrous of the two.

 

Unrelated:

Spoiler

 

42 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

To be honest, this is even less surprising than the game leaking.

It's rare for a person to change their minds on a video game. If they didn't like what they were seeing when the game was first revealed, it's more than likely that they won't like what they see when the game is released.

 

 

1 hour ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Well,  without really speaking into any serious story spoilers to keep the experience,  it seems that those who were set to dislike the game, certainly dislike it.

I want to come back to this because it is very funny after seeing Azoo talk about areas the game is good/okay in after dismissing it so hard earlier this morning lol

 

[Zoomzeta]

22 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Yes, quite the tangent.

Nothing here that would really make one feel any better in regards to a story, where worldbuilding and lore aren't the same thing.

Explanations aren't interesting for the sake of it, so lore that exists only to explain the existence of something is pointless, lore is only interesting in regards to how it relates to the narrative. I wouldn't say this new information really ruins anything in the story of SA1, but it is less interesting knowing the origin of a character just cause.

Again, stuff like this doesn't expand a universe if it comes from stuff we're already familiar with.

So...how do you think this serves the narrative? 

[Wraith]

I don't think the new chaos/chaos emerald wrinkle takes away from anything. I'm just not sure what it adds. References and callbacks are fine but I like them the most when they enhance the stories we have already in some way and I just don't think this does that. I think they should have either committed to fleshing them out or committed to keeping their mysticism but they chose a weird third route. I remember Ian saying they have the entire origin story of the chaos emeralds written down somewhere though so maybe this is just the start of something and they have plans to reveal more next time.

[Zoomzeta]

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

I don't think the new chaos/chaos emerald wrinkle takes away from anything. I'm just not sure what it adds. I think they should have either committed to fleshing them out or committed to keeping their mysticism but they chose a weird third route. I remember Ian saying they have the entire origin story of the chaos emeralds written down somewhere though so maybe this is just the start of something and they have plans to reveal more next time.

Possibly?

[StaticMania]

1 minute ago, Zoomzeta said:

So...how do you think this serves the narrative? 

It doesn't...

I just said it was pointless.

If you're talking about how is relates to Sonic Frontiers' narrative, it probably matters even less considering where the information is found.