Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Celestia]

I'm just hoping we'll be allowed to turn Super in bosses this time around.

That's been bothering me ever since Colours. Unlike the classics where you could get all the emeralds really early if you know what you're doing, in the modern games you have to go through the entire game (and in Colours / LW case, collect every Red Ring). It doesn't make the game too easy to beat because..you've already done that, it's really just there for fun, so why the restriction?

edit: Granted, LW doesn't have that restriction, probably because the bosses are found in actual levels. But the final boss does prohibit transforming since, for whatever reason, Super Sonic isn't allowed in the auto-running sections and--yeah okay I guess the issue here is that they keep putting weird restrictions on what's supposed to be intentionally OP anyway. I don't get it.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I liked the bosses where Sonic fights normally. Sonic can do many things without turning super 

I want to see that happen again where he fights the monster of the week without glowing yellow

[DarkRula]

And that brings me to what I've said before.

Perfect Chaos in Generations was pretty much using the abilities honed throughout the game. It was pretty much a level where you get through a certain part and attack. Then repeat with a different section.

Get that, but with different parts of the level and different points to attack on the boss. Take the sentinels as the bosses. Start on the ground, get through the attacks in launches while running through what feels like a proper level. Attack one of its arms. It throws you to another part of the city. Repeat the same for the other arm. Now on the rooftops, you're working your way to it to attack its head. Now it has fallen once you attack its head. One last run up and attack and the level finishes.

You could use different level geometry and gimmicks to make them different. An underwater boss for instance. Change the attack points, or the order of them. There's plenty to do with bosses as levels.

[BubbleButt TV]

Imo, Super Sonic fights work so much better as bonuses and not as the main final boss. Forcing a new gimmick on the player right at the end of the game is not an ideal way to round things off.

I feel as though one of the best Super Sonic fights was Perfect Chaos in Sonic Adventure. Why? Because it's extremely simple. All you need to do is jump and go fast, which is what you're doing throughout most of the game anyway. There's no new moveset to wrap your head around.

[Celestia]

I've wanted a final boss where you have to fight a huge mech without needing to transform for a long time, and seeing a level where Sonic's running around a city being destroyed by giant robots makes me want it more. Especially if the final boss is THAT huge (as opposed to Nega-Wisp and LW's mech which are, uh, relatively smaller).

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, Celestia said:

I've wanted a final boss where you have to fight a huge mech without needing to transform for a long time, and seeing a level where Sonic's running around a city being destroyed by giant robots makes me want it more. Especially if the final boss is THAT huge (as opposed to Nega-Wisp and LW's mech which are, uh, relatively smaller).

What if it's an Unleashed direction where you fight half the boss as Normal Sonic, then you go into round two where the final boss blasts off into the sky/space for the last half?

Give fans a Modern Doomsday Zone treatment, as I believe some have mentioned.

(Maybe have Classic Sonic show a "This feels/looks familiar..." expression too for that subtle reference)

[Auroxen]

Thinking about it I realized I'd really like to see a no super fight done well in 3D, it's just that Sonic Lost World made me lose hope in that (also I don't really like Colour's final boss that much so that doesn't help).

I don't feel that a normal Sonic gameplay only final boss can work in this game because there are three playable characters, so I feel they could go for two routes:

1) Super fight: they all transform and fight the final boss together, business as usual.
2) Changing character continuously: the boss has section which alternate between the character, like: Modern Sonic has reach the boss and attack it's arm or whatever, then Classic Sonic has to do something to damage another part of him, Bubsy the OC has to do whatever he does in this game to damage the boss in another way, Modern Sonic again and so on until the last hit

I already explained what I'd want: 3 stories for the three character, each with a normal final boss with their gameplay style, then the final story that has one of the two option above (I'd prefer the Super fight but the other one is also an acceptable possibility I think).

[Celestia]

1 minute ago, Auroxen said:

2) Changing character continuously: the boss has section which alternate between the character, like: Modern Sonic has reach the boss and attack it's arm, then Classic Sonic has to do something to damage another part of him, Bubsy the OC has to do whatever he does in this game to damage the boss in another way, Modern Sonic again and so on until the last hit

I could see that, though rather than switching constantly I'd prefer a Cannon's Core situation with three distinct phases (I assume the order would be new character  -> Classic -> Modern), and then maybe end on a finisher that involves all three characters.

[Dannymax440]

Would anyone rather;

1. Have a restricted Super Sonic finale or...

2. Normal finale but have Super Sonic playable in all levels.

[Auroxen]

Just now, Celestia said:

I could see that, though rather than switching constantly I'd prefer a Cannon's Core situation with three distinct phases (I assume the order would be new character  -> Classic -> Modern), and then maybe end on a finisher that involves all three characters.

Yeah that's a better idea now that I think about it, who knows maybe this way they can make a worthwhile fight without resorting to the Super Sonic cliché, who knows.

[StaticMania]

21 minutes ago, Dannymax440 said:

Would anyone rather;

1. Have a restricted Super Sonic finale or...

2. Normal finale but have Super Sonic playable in all levels.

There's no reason to be either-or about this. Super Sonic should always be regular playable and whether or not the final boss is a Super Sonic one should only be based on if it's necessary.

[BubbleButt TV]

23 minutes ago, Dannymax440 said:

Would anyone rather;

1. Have a restricted Super Sonic finale or...

2. Normal finale but have Super Sonic playable in all levels.

[Bowbowis]

13 minutes ago, Dannymax440 said:

Would anyone rather;

1. Have a restricted Super Sonic finale or...

2. Normal finale but have Super Sonic playable in all levels.

3. Have a Super Sonic finale and play as him in all levels.

Seriously though guys, how 'bout a compromise? Instead of Super Sonic playing totally differently from normal Sonic why not take the Heroes route and have him play basically the same but with upgraded versions of his normal abilities? Give the homing attack a longer range and make it nigh instantaneous. Have the jump dash propel you further and faster. Let the bounce create a shock-wave when it impacts the ground. Add an extended  short range projectile (like the Sonic Wave from Sonic Battle) to the somersault. Have the spindash charge up twice as fast and give it a vortex effect which draws in nearby rings, crates, enemies, and capsules while it's charging. You know, stuff which doesn't radically alter the basic utility of the move, just makes it a little more... super.

Then, how about instead of the final battle just having you play as Super Sonic throughout, it instead starts you as normal Sonic but the boss can only be damaged by Super Sonic. That way, instead of the time limit being the sole challenge of the fight, you spend at least half of it vulnerable, trying to survive as normal Sonic while you gather up enough rings to go Super. Once you're Super, then the time limit kicks in, if you fail to defeat the boss before running out of rings you revert to normal and have to collect 50 more before you can go on the offensive again.

Just an idea.

[Wraith]

I lean toward normal Sonic taking the boss out but I wouldn't complain if that was what they did.

The return of a Doomsday style unlock condition where the chaos emeralds only affect the story and ending if you actually get them all would be appreciated too.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Considering special stages suck ass 90% of the time I'd rather not have that, actually.

[Wraith]

It would be as simple as making the unlock condition fun to do

And if you don't trust them to do that because of prior history you shouldn't really trust them to do much of anything

[StaticMania]

6 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Considering special stages suck ass 90% of the time I'd rather not have that, actually.

90% is an exaggerated guess-timation...I'd say it'd be about 65%, can't be too negative.

 

Overtly negative.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Nah it's pretty close. According to Sonic News Network, there are ~22 special stages in Sonic games, and that's not even counting the alternate console versions of each. I counted two of them that weren't total shit, Making a ~91% total shittiness to special stages in general, but that doesn't also account for the fact that those five special stages were from Sonic 1 8-bit and Knuckles Chaotix, one game that's wholly forgettable and one that's boring as all hell.

So in conclusion no thank you.

[Wraith]

At that point you figure out why special stages don't work and make em work.

I wanted them to just be really hard stages in the style of a regular SOnic stage for a while?

[Celestia]

I liked how in Colours they had "Special Stages" in all but name and also they just played like the regular game. I'd like to see more of that...and, y'know, have 'em be more challenging.

[Pawn]

I'd like to see a final boss where Sonic starts off in his Super form, but when he attempts to deliver the final blow, Eggman activates a machine (like the one from Unleashed's intro) and transfers the hedgehog's power to whatever weapon he is using. That would increase the drama and challenge in the second phase, forcing Sonic to fight without the Chaos Emeralds when he needs them the most.

[Shiny Gems]

2 hours ago, Dannymax440 said:

Would anyone rather;

1. Have a restricted Super Sonic finale or...

2. Normal finale but have Super Sonic playable in all levels.

I enjoy playing as Super Sonic, so I will go with number 2.

Speaking of super forms, is it possible for this new character to have a super form for the final boss fight if there is such a fight in super form? I know there is that "only male hedgehogs can go super" thing from Iizuka, but Knux and Tails have gone super before, and Silver, who does go super, was originally going to be a mink, so there is that. Who knows?

[Diogenes]

Personally I'm not too keen on the idea of a player-created character being elevated to one of the most powerful in the series. I'm pretty strict about which characters I want having super forms in the first place; some Original the Character who just waltzed in has definitely not earned it.

e: even if it doesn't end up being a player-created character (i keep forgetting that's not actually confirmed in any way yet...) I'm still not big on handing out super forms. They'd need a damn good reason for it, not just "every playable character goes Super in the end".

[Bowbowis]

All discussions of their quality aside, I'd really prefer to avoid special stages in games where the Chaos Emeralds factor into the plot. When games like Heroes and Colors (DS) try to have it both ways with the Emeralds (using them to resolve the plot after collecting them in a non-story context) they end up feeling like a deus ex machina, which Sonic randomly pulls out of his ass to save the day despite the game giving no indication that they were anything more than bonus items prior to that point. Contrast the Adventure games, where the Emeralds are proper plot devices and characters trying to collect all seven is a major part of the story. In those games the Emeralds have been gathered in one place by the events of the story, there's been a ton of buildup to them being brought together and using them to save the day in the end, rather than coming out of nowhere, serves as the grand payoff to all that buildup. It simply makes for better storytelling in my book.

[JezMM]

In games with minimal story like the classics and the Advance games, locking the true final boss behind special stages feels fine, but I don't want it in any big production values game.  I don't want any "incomplete" endings.

Secret Rings was probably the absolute worst for it, with the "ending" literally being Erazor retreating into a room and Sonic and Shahra realising they need the Seven World Rings... roll credits.  Why!?

I'd rather the full arc of the story be one complete experience.  As for final bosses, I don't mind Super Sonic as long as his gameplay is either the same as or a natural extension of the regular gameplay.  Perfect Chaos really is the best example - something speed related.

I feel "third gameplay style" could have the honour of penultimate final boss, kinda like Werehog and Egg Dragoon in Unleashed.  But honestly whatever they do, as long as the hardest challenge is a test of the core gameplay rather than a minigame with new mechanics, I'm cool with it.  I don't mind the latter if it's like a cinematic payoff for beating the "real final exam boss" as a first phase.