Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Wraith]

I feel like the experience of gathering the Emeralds itself and the replayability it adds would be worth the tweaks. You could also just not have the Emeralds be the focal point of the story. If the player decides them it could influence the final encounter and how it goes down a bit, but the "ending" would still be complete with out. Y'know, Interactivity. Adding depth to the actual mechanical side of things. 

[Diogenes]

I don't think I'd mind an optional "true" final boss so long as the normal final boss and ending were properly satisfying and conclusive on their own. It should feel like the true finale is adding some extra wrinkle or something, not like there's a chunk of the story missing if you only get the normal ending. That's probably hard to pull off, though, so I wouldn't blame them for not doing it.

[Meta77]

I mean common sense tells you super sonic is needed for some fights. When a villain is THAT strong and he needs to extra power. We can all pretend a normal sonic fight would be cute but in the end super is needed many times for things far to powerful to beat normal. Aka try to imagine most the final boss fights as normal sonic. Lord I wonder what would happen if he fought normal in space against the final hazard. Or how about *even though he is not in the game* super shadow against devil doom.. Or heck a time god that not even their super forms could hurt. They only "knocked him out". Super is fine and is not a forced gimmick really. If anything just make it a super tough fight.

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I mean common sense tells you super sonic is needed for some fights. When a villain is THAT strong and he needs to extra power. We can all pretend a normal sonic fight would be cute but in the end super is needed many times for things far to powerful to beat normal. Aka try to imagine most the final boss fights as normal sonic. Lord I wonder what would happen if he fought normal in space against the final hazard. Or how about *even though he is not in the game* super shadow against devil doom.. Or heck a time god that not even their super forms could hurt. They only "knocked him out". Super is fine and is not a forced gimmick really. If anything just make it a super tough fight.

The only reason a boss would be "too strong" for normal Sonic to beat him is if they were written to be like that. Even Dark Gaia, a world-destroying god, was taking meaningful damage just from Sonic pounding on him because that's the kind of fight they wanted to make.

[Chris Knopps]

4 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

The only reason a boss would be "too strong" for normal Sonic to beat him is if they were written to be like that. Even Dark Gaia, a world-destroying god, was taking meaningful damage just from Sonic pounding on him because that's the kind of fight they wanted to make.

Yeah, but then his Perfect form happened and Sonic couldn't take it on anymore.

And even with Super Sonic it took Chip in his giant form to win.

[Diogenes]

11 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Yeah, but then his Perfect form happened and Sonic couldn't take it on anymore.

And even with Super Sonic it took Chip in his giant form to win.

Yeah but there's no actual requirement that he have a "perfect" form, or even if he did that it couldn't still be damaged by normal Sonic. Dark Gaia has multiple phases and requires Super Sonic and Megazord Chip to beat because the designers wanted a multi-phase fight where all that stuff happens; they didn't make all that stuff happen because Dark Gaia already had a second form that was too strong for normal Sonic.

[Blue Wisp]

13 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Yeah, but then his Perfect form happened and Sonic couldn't take it on anymore.

And even with Super Sonic it took Chip in his giant form to win.

Didn't Super Megazord Chip just give Super Sonic the window to attack Dark Gaia? Even if Chip was in a giant mecha... Thing I truly doubt some punches would do any kind of damage to a God.

Unless it's a Punch Out Cthulhu situation which is something common with the series anyway. 

[Chris Knopps]

You know...

I once had a concept when Lost World was in development where, since the planet looked incomplete, it was some project on Eggman's part to make his own world by somehow using bits and pieces of Sonic's world.

Then at the end of the game, in a last ditch effort to save his world and beat Sonic, the scientist would "merge" himself with the core of the world, and the entirety of Lost Hex would transform into a planet-sized golem of sorts.

The first phase of the boss would center around Sonic running along each of its arms and legs to reach its chest where he would deal blows to create an opening. Each arm and leg would feature a different element that would attack Sonic and block his way. Water, sand, lava, etc.

Then for the second phase, Sonic would battle one-on-one with Eggman, fist to fist finally. The scientist powered by the core of the planet, Sonic powered by the emeralds in a massive chamber full of splintered gems.

...But that was when I was so naive and full of false hope for something so epic...

But that's my idea of catering to both sides of the argument. A phase requiring Normal Sonic, then a phase requiring Super Sonic.

[Blue Wisp]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

Then for the second phase, Sonic would battle one-on-one with Eggman, fist to fist finally.

Something like this? 
Man Sonic the Fighters was weird.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Ariel the Blue Wisp said:

Something like this? 
Man Sonic the Fighters was weird.

No, more like a Dragon Ball Z brawler where the characters shoot around in the air and go full on bullet-punch on one another.

[Meta77]

1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

No, more like a Dragon Ball Z brawler where the characters shoot around in the air and go full on bullet-punch on one another.

That be to amazing for this fan base haha XD

[Chris Knopps]

1 hour ago, Meta77 said:

That be to amazing for this fan base haha XD

Eh, for some reason I've just always wanted to see the Doctor take on Sonic one-on-one without any mechs in some grand super-powered showdown.

It'd be kinda cool to see the Doctor toss away the metal and bring out his Knuckles against Sonic.

Two opposing titan forces clashing relentlessly in the ultimate decision of good or evil dominating all.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

3 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

Yeah, but then his Perfect form happened and Sonic couldn't take it on anymore.

And even with Super Sonic it took Chip in his giant form to win.

Unless you're playing the version of that fight with the preferable control scheme that doesn't handle poorly. In that case, Super Sonic beat Perfect Gaia one-on-one.

[Chris Knopps]

24 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

Unless you're playing the version of that fight with the preferable control scheme that doesn't handle poorly. In that case, Super Sonic beat Perfect Gaia one-on-one.

Eh...?

Wasn't the 360 version superior...?

But... Yeah... I feel a Super finale is a necessity in Forces but...

That's me.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

18 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Eh...?

Wasn't the 360 version superior...?

But... Yeah... I feel a Super finale is a necessity in Forces but...

That's me.

I'm referring to the final battle on the PS2 and Wii versions of course, just in case you didn't catch the meaning behind the reference.

[Kellan]

1 minute ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

I'm referring to the final battle on the PS2 and Wii versions of course, just in case you didn't catch the meaning behind the reference.

I've only played the Wii version of Unleashed, and I hated that final boss. Super Sonic would never lock on to Gaia's eyes, and I'd be stuck just flying there, waiting for it to arbitrarily allow me to attack again. Was that seriously the good version of that fight?

That being said, I do usually like Super Sonic fights, mostly because of the drama that "this foe is so powerful, that not even Sonic can defeat it without some help" can bring. So, I hope to see one of those in Forces. Well, either that or something along the lines of "Oh no, the Chaos Emeralds are gone! Now Sonic has to fight this enemy without his Super Form!" That could also be pretty dramatic. Either one would work fine for me, if they pull it off.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

16 minutes ago, Kellan said:

I've only played the Wii version of Unleashed, and I hated that final boss. Super Sonic would never lock on to Gaia's eyes, and I'd be stuck just flying there, waiting for it to arbitrarily allow me to attack again. Was that seriously the good version of that fight?

Compared to the garbage hitbox fest of tentacles for the finale in the HD version? Hell yes.

Besides, I can appreciate the fan fare homage to NiGHTS that the finale in the PS2/Wii version was, control-wise, hence part of the reason why the fight handled better than its HD counterpart.

The fight furthermore, had more rhyme and reason to it and how it functioned over all trumps the HD version.

That, and I thankfully never had the lock-on issue to deal with.

[JezMM]

2 hours ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

Compared to the garbage hitbox fest of tentacles for the finale in the HD version? Hell yes.

Besides, I can appreciate the fan fare homage to NiGHTS that the finale in the PS2/Wii version was, control-wise, hence part of the reason why the fight handled better than its HD counterpart.

The fight furthermore, had more rhyme and reason to it and how it functioned over all trumps the HD version.

That, and I thankfully never had the lock-on issue to deal with.

Eh?  The HD version was the one with the NiGHTS-esque flight controls.  The Wii/PS2 version just had you floating around in the foreground dodging stuff like in Secret Rings or 2006.

Personally I prefer the HD version for it's cinematicness, but I'll confess I still don't really understand how to reliably dodge some of his attacks to this day.

[Marcello]

I've only played the Super Sonic fight in Unleashed (HD) once since I didn't want to go through that dumb golem part again, but I remember it being pretty fun. It was kind of from a top-down view wasn't it?

[Blue Blood]

As we don't yet know the story, I'm pretty indifferent to a Super Sonic final boss. But whatever the final boss is, I'd like it to play like the rest of the game. For some reason, Sonic games have a habit of having a bizarre genre shift for the finale, which almost invariably involves flying towards a glowing marker. Once you get bored of the spectacle of Super Sonic being some sort of big and epic twist (which was with SA2 in 2001 for me), the bosses themselves start to wear thin. I was honestly absolutely stoked when we found out that the Emeralds weren't a part of the story in Colours, and that instead we had a more traditional boss. There's no reason why that can't be exciting and tense in its own right. The best part of the finale in Colours was probably Terminal Velocity 2, which came after the final boss.

If we're on the subject of story though, make the Emeralds relevant if they're to be used at the climax, otherwise don't bother. In Generations and Heroes, they appeared "just because". The Emeralds didn't serve any story purpose beyond making Sonic turn super at the last second.

Just give me a cool final boss where it still feels like I'm playing the same game as a was before. That can be done either as Super Sonic or not.

And I'd like some more level-bosses, ala Perfect Chaos in Generations. That shit was fun. 

[StaticMania]

Some more level style bosses would be pretty positive. That's still a pretty fresh idea for this series and it goes so well with the Boost game-play. Fighting a Dr. Eggman mecha this way would work.

[Meta77]

See the thing about a regular final boss is the threat seems to not exist. If normal sonic beats a next at the end it was not that big a threat to begin with to me.  eggman knows normal sonic us also not biggest threat.  aka unleaded opening. Normal did some good damage but super trashed entire ships. So much is supers threat to eggman he belt a restraint device just to hold him down.

[Auroxen]

Now that I think about it, why don't just combine the level boss and the super sonic boss?

We've seen in Colours and Lost World that Super Sonic CAN work in 3D in regular levels, then why don't just make the final boss a level boss where you have to traverse it as Super Sonic or something like that?

Maybe you can traverse it as normal Sonic but you can't damage the boss that way so you gotta be careful with your rings or something like that.

I never thought about it but nearly every other game series keeps the gameplay the same in the final boss, you never see Mario turning into a flying game for the final boss for example.

Not to say that gameplay changing final bosses can't be done in a good way (Kirby is an example of a series with good final bosses that play differently) but in Sonic is overdone and yeah, the level bosses aren't used a lot so I feel they can be combined with Super Sonic.

[Blue Blood]

3 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

See the thing about a regular final boss is the threat seems to not exist. If normal sonic beats a next at the end it was not that big a threat to begin with to me.  eggman knows normal sonic us also not biggest threat.  aka unleaded opening. Normal did some good damage but super trashed entire ships. So much is supers threat to eggman he belt a restraint device just to hold him down.

So there's no threat unless he needs the 7 Chaos McGuffins? I don't buy that whatsoever. The Emeralds and Super Sonic don't need to be a part of every story. Where's the threat if all takes is for  Sonic to becoming a dashing blonde every time there's danger?

Sonic is more than capable of taking down Eggman. The Emeralds are just one of the ways that he can accomplish it. How would you feel about a plot where Sonic doesn't have the Emeralds at his disposal at the climax, but Eggman does? Would Sonic have to lose that fight?

I maintain that there are other ways to do climactic and threatening. Super Sonic is just one of them. 

[Diogenes]

8 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

See the thing about a regular final boss is the threat seems to not exist. If normal sonic beats a next at the end it was not that big a threat to begin with to me.

That doesn't actually make sense, though. It doesn't really matter what kills the giant rampaging monster, it's still a threat while it's out there stomping on cities or whatever. The threat level of a monster isn't just a matter of how hard it is to kill