Official Sonic 2006 topic

[Komodin]

Would you guys consider Elise to be a Damsel Sue or a Damsel Scrappy?  I lean towards the latter because the former would imply she had somewhat positive qualities.

 

My disgruntled opinion of the degradation of the "Mary Sue" concepts aside, I think Elise is a damsel scrappy, due primarily to her constant kidnappings and her relative lack of agency. I just find her and her plights to be rather boring, really. 

Edited May 3, 2013 by Komodin

[Dr. Crusher]

Damsel Scrappy, definitely. (And I'll second the viewpoint of the "Sue" term being misused a lot nowadays.)

[FireBird75]

Thanks for feedback guys.  Appreciate it!

Hmm, I wonder if Princess Elise is, in fact, the most disliked character in the series. (As far as the games are concerned anyway)

 

Also, I think the misuse of the "Sue" concept has led to the establishment of different types of the trope in order to prevent the labeling of certain characters that are "written to be liked" with the somewhat broad term of Mary Sue.  That's my theory on the matter.

[Spin Attaxx]

No, I'd say Elise, while definetly hated, is not THE MOST hated.

 

Like I'm mostly apathetic on her, and don't strongly despise her like I do with, say, Nega.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[WarioBone]

No, I'd say Elise, while definetly hated, is not THE MOST hated.

 

Like I'm mostly apathetic on her, and don't strongly despise her like I do with, say, Nega.

 

Yeah, this is mostly how I feel.  I don't hate her as much as Mephiles or one of the other characters that takes an active role in making the story terrible, but I still hate her.  It just doesn't register much against the standard background hate level.

[smogfog]

Oh, is it? Tell me: exactly what are the things that you like about its plot?

Suddenly rage? o_O Or what is it?

Anyway, the question is a bit unfair.

-several characters

-they interact with each other

-dialogues sounds natural

-some dialogues have pathos

-dialogues lack forced unnatural happiness

-plot tries to be epic

[Xenos]

Suddenly rage? o_O Or what is it?

Anyway, the question is a bit unfair.

-several characters

-they interact with each other

-dialogues sounds natural

-some dialogues have pathos

-dialogues lack forced unnatural happiness

-plot tries to be epic

 

I think he meant for you to explain your points, man.

[Spin Attaxx]

Suddenly rage? o_O Or what is it?

Anyway, the question is a bit unfair.

-several characters

-they interact with each other

-dialogues sounds natural

-some dialogues have pathos

-dialogues lack forced unnatural happiness

-plot tries to be epic

- Too many, in fact. For instance, was it really worth shoehorning Blaze in when she does nothing that couldn't be done by a new one-shot?

- The interactions are lacking in emotion.

- Dialouge sounds rather bland and is again lacking in emotion. Except when the emotion's forced.

- I'm not sure what that one means.

- It also lacks un-forced natural happiness. Or anger. Or sadness. Or any human emotion.

- If you mean a 13 year old's idea of epic, sure it tries.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[smogfog]

-some dialogues have pathos

- I'm not sure what that one means.

"I finally can become one with you, Iblis!"

 

- The interactions are lacking in emotion.

- Dialouge sounds rather bland and is again lacking in emotion. Except when the emotion's forced.

- It also lacks un-forced natural happiness. Or anger. Or sadness. Or any human emotion.

PS4 conference surely lacked emotion. I can hardly say the same about 2006 conversations.

 

- If you mean a 13 year old's idea of epic, sure it tries.

Just like ShTH? I think 2006 is noticeably better. Edited May 4, 2013 by crystallize

[Spin Attaxx]

PS4 conference surely lacked emotion. I can hardly say the same about 2006 conversations.

So? This is a video game with a vast and colourful cast - I'd say non-robotic interactions are kind of a must.

 

I mean, look at Sonic and Tails's first cutscene together in Colours. Now look at their first cutscene together in '06. Which one has more character again?

 

Just like ShTH? I think 2006 is noticeably better.

'06 doesn't even have the B-movie So Bad It's Good quality that Shadow did. It's trying to be like Final Fantasy and ended up as the 13 year old's idea of Final Fantasy. I don't care if it tried to be epic - it doesn't change the fact that it failed at it.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Komodin]

-several characters

 

So what? The vast majority of Sonic games have more than two characters in them.

 

 

-they interact with each other

 

Again, so what? Even the modern-era Sonic games had characters interact with each other.

 

-dialogues sounds natural

 

Dude, even by Sonic's usually meh standards, the dialogue is about as natural as toilet paper.

 

-some dialogues have pathos

 

Such as...? Come on now, man, give me some examples here because, from what I've seen, a good chunk of the lines in this game have a metric ton of bathos (or narm, in troper lingo) killing whatever sense of sentimentality they had going for it.

 

-dialogues lack forced unnatural happiness

 

... Unnecessary dig at Colors aside, the dialogue of this game had a forced sense of dramaticness that is just as bad as a forced sense of "unnatural happiness". 

 

-plot tries to be epic

 

... And utterly fails at doing so.

 

Well, I can't say that I'm convinced that the game isn't highly flawed at best.

[SilentDoom]

"I finally can become one with you, Iblis!"

 

 

That's not pathos at all.  Pathos is persuasion by appealing to the audience's emotions.  There is nothing emotive about 06 at all.  There's nothing to sympathise with the characters.  Nothing to make you emotionally connect with them.  If I was ever having some kind of emotion response to 06 it was probably frustration at how bad it is.

[smogfog]

Why the fuck "selected-quoted" doesn't work?... 

So? This is a video game with a vast and colourful cast - I'd say non-robotic interactions are kind of a must.
 
I mean, look at Sonic and Tails's first cutscene together in Colours. Now look at their first cutscene together in '06. Which one has more character again?

I'm not even sure are Sonic and Tails in 2006 and in Colours the same characters. But, yeah, in 2006 they talk like office or military guys, all these "another location" are too official. Colors, in other hand, are like DJ talking to a baby, it's another side of unnatural, even if it's a bit better.
 

'06 doesn't even have the B-movie So Bad It's Good quality that Shadow did. It's trying to be like Final Fantasy and ended up as the 13 year old's idea of Final Fantasy. I don't care if it tried to be epic - it doesn't change the fact that it failed at it.

Hey, I'm trying to learn has it failed or not, you can't use "it failed" as a proof.
 

Again, so what? Even the modern-era Sonic games had characters interact with each other.

Oh, but they didn't.
 

 

 
 
 
 

 

What common characters Sonic talked to in a Modern games? Tails all the time, Amy in Unleashed, Eggman in Colors, Classic Tails in Generations. That's everyone I can remember.
 

Dude, even by Sonic's usually meh standards, the dialogue is about as natural as toilet paper.

IMHO Heroes and Generations have the worst dialogues in Sonic history. 2006 can't be worse.
 

Such as...? Come on now, man, give me some examples here because, from what I've seen, a good chunk of the lines in this game have a metric ton of bathos (or narm, in troper lingo) killing whatever sense of sentimentality they had going for it.

Mephiles says that he can finally become one with Iblis.
 

Well, I can't say that I'm convinced that the game isn't highly flawed at best.

Is my english that bad that I hardly understand such posts?... Why do you need to express simple idea with such a complex sentence?
 

That's not pathos at all.  Pathos is persuasion by appealing to the audience's emotions.  There is nothing emotive about 06 at all.  There's nothing to sympathise with the characters.  Nothing to make you emotionally connect with them.  If I was ever having some kind of emotion response to 06 it was probably frustration at how bad it is.

I think when character raises his voice to say something epic - this is pathos. And your evidence is based on itself.

Oh, I don't like these skyscraper posts a have to make...

Edited May 4, 2013 by crystallize

[Spin Attaxx]

Hey, I'm trying to learn, has it failed or not, you can't use "it failed" as a proof.

The fact that the overwhelming majority hates it is proof enough it failed.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Speaking of failure, did Sonic 06 ever make back the development costs?

[WarioBone]

Speaking of failure, did Sonic 06 ever make back the development costs?

 

pft

 

fuckin

 

just spit up my drink

[Spin Attaxx]

Speaking of failure, did Sonic 06 ever make back the development costs?

Probably just barely. I mean it likely sold as well as it did because Sonic stil had something of an icon status, and now we know iconic value doesn't always equal quality.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[WarioBone]

Probably just barely.

 

wait what seriously?

 

Sonic was so popular that people bought this...this...excrement just because he was on the cover?!

 

Ugh...

[Semi-colon e]

At least one person I know was misled by the title, believing it to be a remake of Sonic 1 and bought it without doing his research the instant the game came out.

 

And it did make Platinum Hits as well didn't it...?

[Blacklightning]

It sold well enough to get a platnium edition, if that's any indicator.

 

 

It's hard to guage without knowing exactly how much money was dumped into the game, though. It's tempting to guess at "not much", but there's too much guesswork involved to say it in good confidence. Obvious QA issues aside, of course.

 

EDIT: Ninja'd by two minutes. Fuck.

Edited May 4, 2013 by The Cheese

[WarioBone]

At least one person I know was misled by the title, believing it to be a remake of Sonic 1

 

ho-ly fuck

 

that poor man

[Komodin]

Oh, but they didn't.

 

Yes, they did; I was not just talking about Sonic Unleashed, Colors and Generations with that statement of mine. Just because Sonic's not talking to every character that have been made in the series, doesn't mean that he's basically alone.

 

IMHO Heroes and Generations have the worst dialogues in Sonic history. 2006 can't be worse.

 

 

Yes, it can and it is. Heroes and Generations having mediocre and mostly forgettable writing doesn't make Sonic 2006 any less bad in that regard.

 

Mephiles says that he can finally become one with Iblis.

 

... So what? There's nothing particularly meaningful about that line. In  fact, it just made Mephiles look like he finally found his "one true love."

 

Is my english that bad that I hardly understand such posts?... Why do you need to express simple idea with such a complex sentence?

 

Stick to the topic, please. This debate/argument/whatever is not about my vocabulary.

[Burnt Ash]

If Sonic 06 had any appeal to pathos, I must have missed it. The dialogue isn't competent, let alone appealing to pathos properly. Pathos is essentially the appeal to emotion in order to construct more meaning or to allow the audience to empathize with characters or draw on personal experiences allowing them to connect with the story more. Sonic 06 has almost none of this; the dialogue is not very well constructed at all, which can actually hinder emotional appeal, and the plot doesn't help with this either. I can't really feel sorry for Sonic even at his "moment of weakness", I don't empathise with Silver a good chunk of the time, and the only time I could really feel for Shadow was in that one Flame Core cutscene, but even then, it isn't much. Sonic 06 has lots of character interaction, and it has a lot of dialogue. But the dialogue doesn't really work to appeal to pathos well.

[smogfog]

Yes, they did; I was not just talking about Sonic Unleashed, Colors and Generations with that statement of mine.

o_O Then what do you mean when you say "Modern games"?

 

Just because Sonic's not talking to every character that have been made in the series, doesn't mean that he's basically alone.

Yeah, but even if there's hundred of characters in the background, and Sonic doesn't talk to them, it feels like he is alone. Take Generations: they gathered massive crowd of characters, not only from present time, but also from the past, and even from another, cancelled timeline. Feels like plot really, desperately needed them, huh? And in the end not only Sonic doesn't really talk to them, they don't even talk to each other! Even the ones that considered to be partners, like Chaotix, or Silver&Blaze, doesn't communicate!

[-blank-]

Semi-colon e, on 04 May 2013 - 08:24, said:At least one person I know was misled by the title, believing it to be a remake of Sonic 1 and bought it without doing his research the instant the game came out.
And it did make Platinum Hits as well didn't it...?

You know the sad thing? I first heard about this game way back in 2005 in an EGM magazine. They said it was going to be a remake of Sonic 1. I kid you not.