Official Sonic 2006 topic

[Kuzu]

Elise getting Stockholm syndrome for Eggman would have been the most hilarious thing ever.

But since she's meant to be cast in a good light, that would require some pretty complex writing, more than what I think the series can handle without fucking it up sadly.

Then we agree that the "Elise is a bad character in part because she gets kidnapped a lot" argument people have been toting around for years is fucking stupid because it has no bearing on her personality or much of anything relevant to her characterization? Great. xP

This is nothing new, any female that can't handle herself is hated. Regardless, my problems with Elise never came from her getting kidnapped(although they really don't help to make her look good) but rather how poorly her character is handled.

[Milo]

Elise getting Stockholm syndrome for Eggman would have been the most hilarious thing ever.

 

 

I can see the new plot for 06 now:

 

Team Sonic Heroes is tasked by Soleanna to rescue Elise. It is later revealed that Elise had fallen infatuated with Eggman and they have plans to marry each other. Team Sonic then races against time to stop Eggman from marrying Elise and crowning her Queen Elise: Eggpress of the Eggman Empire, establishing themselves as rulers of the earth, and (later revealed in the story) liplocking with Elise in order to stop the release of Iblis.

Team Shadow/Dark is hired by Eggman to go through hell and back to retrieve the Scepter of Darkness (containing Mephiles) and bring it to the wedding.

Team Silver/Pothead/"Absolution" is tricked by Mephiles to stop Team Sonic from annulling the marriage (as Mephiles puts it) "for the namesake of love."

 

I dunno what would be worse-06's plot as it is or this plot taken in all deadpan seriousness.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Gabe

[Vertekins]

I don't think I entirely 'get' the rampant hate-boner for Elise. Yeah she's a pretty boring character but I really don't see how her multiple kidnappings were her fault. One of those instances was from her giving herself up selflessly in the interests of the safety of her people when Eggman threatened to level Soleanna if she didn't.

 

I'll be one of the last people to defend '06's writing but I give it credit where I think it's due. Despite her and Sonic's relationship being poorly developed partly because Sonic is largely devoid of personality and the interactions were cringeworthy in their uncanny valley feel, I can't help but feel at least a bit sorry for Elise by the end when she has to lose one of her only friends for the sake of the world and is driven to tears by it.

 

In a way, this kind of emotional investment just makes this trainwreck of a game all the more 'painful' for how much effort could've gone into it's story aspects to at least make it 'work' despite the shortcomings of the premise.

[Dr. Crusher]

I can see the new plot for 06 now:

 

Team Sonic Heroes is tasked by Soleanna to rescue Elise. It is later revealed that Elise had fallen infatuated with Eggman and they have plans to marry each other. Team Sonic then races against time to stop Eggman from marrying Elise and crowning her Queen Elise: Eggpress of the Eggman Empire, establishing themselves as rulers of the earth, and (later revealed in the story) liplocking with Elise in order to stop the release of Iblis.

Team Shadow/Dark is hired by Eggman to go through hell and back to retrieve the Scepter of Darkness (containing Mephiles) and bring it to the wedding.

Team Silver/Pothead/"Absolution" is tricked by Mephiles to stop Team Sonic from annulling the marriage (as Mephiles puts it) "for the namesake of love."

 

I dunno what would be worse-06's plot as it is or this plot taken in all deadpan seriousness.

 

You understand that you now must be sacrificed to the volcano gods for this, Gabe.

 

EDIT: I think people latch on to the constant kidnappings because of her being a tish character in every other aspect, thus making them all the more prone to pointing out. It's a shallow reason to be sure, but I'd expect that to be the case.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Dr. Crusher

[Candescence]

My own personal two cents on how I'd go about improving 06's narrative would be, firstly, to make the setting more stylized, basically more anime-like, rather than something out of a Final Fantasy game made by a third-rate studio. I'm not a fan of the Pixar-style of Unleashed, honestly.

 

Secondly, I'd swap out Shadow in favor of an elite bodyguard character who takes Sonic's place as Elise's love interest. Said bodyguard is trying to make up for his father's failure to protect the Duke years ago (but obviously comes to care deeply about Elise herself), and becomes increasingly aggravated by how circumstances beyond his control cause Elise to slip out of his fingers repeatedly, eventually resulting in a roaring rampage across the Egg Carrier and tearing Eggman's latest mech limb from limb in his pursuit of putting the mad scientist away for good so he can stop bloody kidnapping her. And yes, he's the designated 'Iblis Trigger'. He also has a powered armor ala Vanquish, focused more on melee combat rather than shooting.

 

Thirdly, the time travel mechanism is performed via gates across the island rather than chaos control. Partly for gameplay purposes, as well. And the future does not need to be a fire and brimstone apocalypse, that's been, well, done. To death.

 

Gameplay is an entirely different can of worms entirely, and for another topic, but long story short, my approach would be to go with an entirely new 3D gameplay style. Sonic 06's gameplay and level design was conceptually broken, to say the least, no amount of bugfixing could've saved that game.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Shirou Emiya

[Nepenthe]

That bugs me too. That and her default reaction is run behind Sonic, clasp her hands and stay silent as a mouse. That's some good princessing, there! *rolls eyes*

I didn't know that the job description for princess called for taking on an unknown assailant with the power to rip people apart just by thinking about it. Yeah, what a lazy bitch. Fuck her.

(Sonic 06 is bad enough that we don't need to grasp at straws like this. xP)

[Kuzu]

I didn't know that the job description for princess called for taking on an unknown assailant with the power to rip people apart just by thinking about it. Yeah, what a lazy bitch. Fuck her.

(Sonic 06 is bad enough that we don't need to grasp at straws like this. xP)

 

 

/Animefandomlogic

 

 

 

But yea, Elise isn't a fighter, so I don't expect to do any fighting and neither should anyone else.

[Milo]

You understand that you now must be sacrificed to the volcano gods for this, Gabe.

 

I understand that I must be scarified the to volcano gods, but I've choose to ignore it.

 

Speaking of 06's time travel, I wonder why they didn't just recycle the Time Stones from Sonic CD. Makes a lot more sense (and would be a refreshing change of pace) to already use an preexisting set of macguffins for a certain purpose rather than just create a contrived new way to use the much more recycled set of macguffins for said certain purpose.

[MamboCat]

I didn't know that the job description for princess called for taking on an unknown assailant with the power to rip people apart just by thinking about it. Yeah, what a lazy bitch. Fuck her.

(Sonic 06 is bad enough that we don't need to grasp at straws like this. xP)

 

It was a joke. Like most of my posts. I thought using the word "princessing" made it obvious...

 

Sorry, should there be a different coloured font to make it more obvious I'm kidding, because this isn't the first time a joke of mine has upset someone...

Edited April 16, 2013 by MamboCat

[Nepenthe]

It was a joke. Like most of my posts. I thought using the word "princessing" made it obvious...

 

Sorry, should there be a different coloured font to make it more obvious I'm kidding, because this isn't the first time a joke of mine has upset someone...

I'm not upset in the least. It's just difficult to separate genuine criticism of the game from insincere jokes at this point, especially when I feel a lot of it is ironically poorly argued or just not that worth getting as upset about as some people still manage to do after, what, eight years? xP The cynicism echo chamber has gotten annoying and self-indulgent, and I'm just feeling a little prickly today. Apologies.

[Kuzu]

I'm not upset in the least. It's just difficult to separate genuine criticism of the game from insincere jokes at this point, especially when I feel a lot of it is ironically poorly argued or just not that worth getting as upset about as some people still manage to do after, what, eight years? xP The cynicism echo chamber has gotten annoying and self-indulgent, and I'm just feeling a little prickly today. Apologies.

 

This game was kinda bad, can't blame people from exaggerating it a tad.

[Nepenthe]

I always blame people for exaggerating stuff and being self-indulgent, especially since- again- shit's been going on for eight years. Eight years- that's 2922 days, nearly a third of my life- of constant negativity, cynicism, people looking down their nose at others, and nowadays going to the statuses to talk shit not only about the game, but about others as well. It's mind-numbingly annoying like you wouldn't believe, and I don't even like the game myself! Hell, a beloved member of our community has basically left over this ridiculous attitude, and while folks were sad and shocked, no one has learned anything from it. The game being bad is no excuse for being this presumptuous and full of one's self for eight years. Eight whole years. Sonic 06 talk is basically at this point a condensing of stereotypical Sonic fan douchebaggery, and I'm right sick of it.

[MamboCat]

I know, and I'm sorry for posting something like that. :/ Normally I'd know better than to make a snarky comment of no discussion value.

 

I think with Clement's review and the Game Grumps '06 playthrough it's brought bashing this game to the forefront again... tbh I'd completely put this game to the back of my mind until I saw Clement's review... as much as I enjoyed his videos.

Edited April 16, 2013 by MamboCat

[Emmett L. Brown]

I always blame people for exaggerating stuff and being self-indulgent, especially since- again- shit's been going on for eight years. Eight years- that's 2922 days, nearly a third of my life- of constant negativity, cynicism, people looking down their nose at others, and nowadays going to the statuses to talk shit not only about the game, but about others as well. It's mind-numbingly annoying like you wouldn't believe, and I don't even like the game myself! Hell, a beloved member of our community has basically left over this ridiculous attitude, and while folks were sad and shocked, no one has learned anything from it. The game being bad is no excuse for being this presumptuous and full of one's self for eight years. Eight whole years. Sonic 06 talk is basically at this point a condensing of stereotypical Sonic fan douchebaggery, and I'm right sick of it.

That would be terrible if 1) It were the same people and 2) they didn't stop thinking about and go back to doing whatever they're doing after typing a derogatory post, devoting neither time nor energy to hate-mongering.

 

Honestly, this description only proves your own impression.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Emmett L. Brown

[Kuzu]

I always blame people for exaggerating stuff and being self-indulgent, especially since- again- shit's been going on for eight years. Eight years- that's 2922 days, nearly a third of my life- of constant negativity, cynicism, people looking down their nose at others, and nowadays going to the statuses to talk shit not only about the game, but about others as well. It's mind-numbingly annoying like you wouldn't believe, and I don't even like the game myself! Hell, a beloved member of our community has basically left over this ridiculous attitude, and while folks were sad and shocked, no one has learned anything from it. The game being bad is no excuse for being this presumptuous and full of one's self for eight years. Eight whole years. Sonic 06 talk is basically at this point a condensing of stereotypical Sonic fan douchebaggery, and I'm right sick of it.

 

I understand this, but complaining about it doesn't solve anything. It's not our fault that people constantly bump this topic with the same statements. We're perfectly fine with leaving Sonic 06 alone, but nobody else is and it is within our right on a forum to respond to these statements. If people leaving over a video game of all things then, as sad as it is, that's their own problem and not ours.

[Emmett L. Brown]

I do sometimes wonder what the lifespan is of a bad impression. There are some games, like Metroid Other M, that make me angry to think about still, and by god I've spilled forth a novel's length of rants about it. Sonic 06, on the other hand, I'm completely relaxed about. The concept actually entertains me now. The Let's Plays it has spawned are some of my favourites, and I've actually watched Pokecapn's legendary Let's Play three times through, laughing my ass off most of the way.

 

(It's even got a TV Tropes page now, to my surprise

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/LetsPlay/SonicTheHedgehog2006 )

 

I still like talking about 06 and deconstructing its content for fun, but I stopped getting worked up about anything related to the game years ago.

[Nepenthe]

That would be terrible if 1) It were the same people and 2) they didn't stop thinking about and go back to doing whatever they're doing after typing a derogatory post, devoting neither time nor energy to hate-mongering.

Honestly, this description only proves your own impression.

Apologies, but I'm a bit confused by what you mean overall. X.x

I understand this, but complaining about it doesn't solve anything. It's not our fault that people constantly bump this topic with the same statements. We're perfectly fine with leaving Sonic 06 alone, but nobody else is and it is within our right on a forum to respond to these statements. If people leaving over a video game of all things then, as sad as it is, that's their own problem and not ours.

No one has left over a video game. They have left over the idiocy said game causes and the same idiocy I've called out, and it's kind of sad that you've simplified the situation in those terms. I'm also not saying no one can debate the game. Debate to your heart's content. That is partly why the forum exists. I'm merely saying, "People act like dicks over this game, and after so long, it's gotten annoying to the point that I feel like saying something about it."

[Emmett L. Brown]

Apologies, but I'm a bit confused by what you mean overall. X.x

Sorry about that. I just meant that the whining and complaining about 06 is pretty consistent for 8 years straight, but the people responsible for said whining are an amorphous mass of individuals that aren't really that whiny or really care that much about the game, but stay interchangeable to the point where it seems like a single entity.

 

 

EDIT: You know what? You're right. I talk weird.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Emmett L. Brown

[Nepenthe]

Sorry about that. I just meant that the whining and complaining about 06 is pretty consistent for 8 years straight, but the people responsible for said whining are an amorphous mass of individuals that aren't really that whiny or really care that much about the game, but stay interchangeable to the point where it seems like a single entity.

EDIT: You know what? You're right. I talk weird.

Correction: you type weird.

Anyway, you are right about that, but I don't think my point loses any weight due to the lack of repeat offenders (although I personally disagree with this on mere observation) or the true investment of those who dislike Sonic 06, because who is involved and to what degree is not so much my point so much that it happens in the first place, and it happens consistently enough for it to even be a noticeable phenomenon to multiple parties, even though there's plenty of room to argue about its exact composition. Who knows, maybe I am making a mountain out of molehill, but I don't feel that the other side has done themselves a service in assuaging that notion in the first place. There is an attitude problem to some degree. And I hate attitude problems.

[Kuzu]

No one has left over a video game. They have left over the idiocy said game causes and the same idiocy I've called out, and it's kind of sad that you've simplified the situation in those terms. I'm also not saying no one can debate the game. Debate to your heart's content. That is partly why the forum exists. I'm merely saying, "People act like dicks over this game, and after so long, it's gotten annoying to the point that I feel like saying something about it."

 

Look, all I'm saying is that its meaningless to get angry at someone else's opinion. I truly don't care about Sonic 06 to the point where I get angry over people's reactions to it. If people feel differently then I apologize if I'm undermining their feelings, but I think its incredibly melodramatic to let this game get to you this much that you have to rant like that.

[Nepenthe]

You keep thoroughly missing the point. I'm not ranting about the game, and I'm not ranting about its consensus. I'm ranting about the observation that Sonic 06 brings out the absolute worst in people's attitudes towards others, which makes it impossible many times to converse in good faith or even come out of browsing the relevant conversations looking at people in a good light. This is regardless of whether or not they believe the game was good or bad, and it wouldn't affect my point if the game in question was S3&K. If you're being intolerable, you're being intolerable. That's that. And what's worse than my ranting is justifying being intolerable on the basis of a nearly decade old video game is bad.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Well look on the bright side Nepenthe...at least we don't have another "Sick of X Fans" topic. =D

[Kuzu]

You keep thoroughly missing the point. I'm not ranting about the game, and I'm not ranting about its consensus. I'm ranting about the observation that Sonic 06 brings out the absolute worst in people's attitudes towards others, which makes it impossible many times to converse in good faith or even come out of browsing the relevant conversations looking at people in a good light. This is regardless of whether or not they believe the game was good or bad, and it wouldn't affect my point if the game in question was S3&K. If you're being intolerable, you're being intolerable. That's that. And what's worse than my ranting is justifying being intolerable on the basis of a nearly decade old video game is bad.

 

I'm not trying to justify the intolerance this game brings, but saying there are better ways to deal with it than complaining about the intolerance to begin with. I don't like people's attitude about this game either but I know complaining about it isn't going to solve anything and could potentially make things worse. Complaining about complaining almost never solves anything, it just adds more complaining. I dunno, maybe I just feel the complainers about the hatedumb are just as bad as the hatedumb themselves.

[Nepenthe]

What other solutions so you have, because I've been quiet about this for a long time and nothing about this has changed. In fact, things typically don't change when you turn a blind eye to something you consider a problem. Trolls do not go away and people don't become more considerate until you ban them and slap them upside the head, respectively. Maybe me bitching about this long enough- as it has been done before in threads more officially sanctioned threads dedicated to discussing this same behavior- will make at least one person who's read my posts think before acting like an asshole. And if that's the case, it's a better solution than remaining quiet.

[Kuzu]

By all means, if you feel you need to speak up then do so. You're a mod so people will probably be deterred a bit, but I'm just saying that there are always going to be haters, its the dark side of any fanbase unfortunately and its something that can't be rid of over night. This game left a really bad mark on the series, and most people just jump on the hate bandwagon or try to actively defend this game with no real substance to back it up. Unless you actively ban 06 discussion altogether, there's really no way to completely avoid this, so I feel complaining about it doesn't really solve anything. That's my stance anyway, maybe I'm wrong and I'm too nonchalant about this, I dunno