ScrewAttack's "Death Battle" Series

[Bowbowis]

I've done a breakdown of Shadow and Mewtwo's speed (No, I don't know why but the results are actually kind of interesting) which I put it in the comments for Shadow's preview on Youtube. I figured I may as well post it here too for anyone who's interested.

Shadow: Shadow is said to be equal to Sonic in speed. Thus the lowest estimate of his top speed in base form is the speed of sound or 340.29 m/s (meters per second). Shadow can also use Chaos Control to (temporarily) halt the flow of time around him giving him functionally infinite speed until it wears off.

Mewtwo: According to the Pokédex Dragonite (bear with me here) is said to be able to fly around the globe in 16 hours. assuming that the Pokémon world is the same size as Earth that means that Dragonite can fly at speeds of around 694.5 m/s. Now let's assume two things, first: Dragonite's stats accurately reflect the speed implied by the Pokédex (which is questionable given its rather unremarkable base speed of 80). Second: even the slowest legitimately obtainable Dragonite (80 base speed, Level 55, 0 speed IVs, 0 speed EVs, and a nature with a negative speed modifier for a total speed stat of 83) can reach that speed. If both of those things are true then that would mean that a speed stat of 83 is equal to a top speed of 694.5 m/s. Now, the fastest possible Mewtwo (Level 100, 31 speed IVs, 255 speed EVs, and a nature with a positive speed modifier) has a speed stat of 394; approximately 4.75 time faster than Dragonite. 694.5 m/s * 4.75 ≈ 329,8.88 m/s.

In other words, barring Chaos Control, base Mewtwo is approximately 9.7 times faster than base Shadow! Of course we all know that their speed in base form is ultimately irrelevant. What's going to decide the fight is Super Shadow vs Mega Mewtwo, so I've taken the liberty of breaking down their speeds a well.

Super Shadow: Just as base Shadow is equal to Sonic in speed so too is Super Shadow speed equal to Super Sonic, who is described in multiple sources as being able to move at near light-speed, or 299,792,458 m/s. Like his base form he can also access Chaos Control to achieve functionally infinite speed for a short time.

Mega Mewtwo: Although Mega Mewtwo X's speed stat is the same as its base form's Mewtwo does gain an incremental boost to his speed upon Mega Evolving into Mega Mewtwo Y. Once again assuming the fastest possible build (Level 100, 31 speed IVs, 255 speed EV's, and a nature with a positive speed modifier) Mega Mewtwo Y has a speed stat of 416. Using the same calculations I used to calculate its base form's speed we can conclude that Mega Mewtwo Y's top speed is 3,472.5 m/s.

Comparing the two it's clear that Super Shadow outspeeds even the fastest Mega Mewtwo build by so much it's not even funny. To be more precise Super Shadow is approx. 86333.32 times faster than Mega Mewtwo Y. Even if Mewtwo were to buff its speed stat as far as it would go (a Pokémon's stats are capped at 4x normal) Shadow would still outspeed it by a factor of 21583.33!

To summarize, when comparing Shadow and Mewtwo's base forms Mewtwo has a significant speed advantage. However, when it comes to their powered-up forms it's a different story. The stat boosts provide by Mega Evolution are just so infinitesimally small compared to those provided by Super Transformation that they may as well not be there in the first place (and that's before factoring in the other perks of Super Form like flight and invulnerability). Honestly Mewtwo would be better off trading in its Mewtwonite for a Focus Band. If only so that it has a 10% chance of surviving long enough to register what's happening before Super Shadow stomps it into the ground.

[Forte-Metallix]

3 hours ago, Bowbowis said:

I've done a breakdown of Shadow and Mewtwo's speed (No, I don't know why but the results are actually kind of interesting) which I put it in the comments for Shadow's preview on Youtube. I figured I may as well post it here too for anyone who's interested.

Shadow: Shadow is said to be equal to Sonic in speed. Thus the lowest estimate of his top speed in base form is the speed of sound or 340.29 m/s (meters per second). Shadow can also use Chaos Control to (temporarily) halt the flow of time around him giving him functionally infinite speed until it wears off.

Mewtwo: According to the Pokédex Dragonite (bear with me here) is said to be able to fly around the globe in 16 hours. assuming that the Pokémon world is the same size as Earth that means that Dragonite can fly at speeds of around 694.5 m/s. Now let's assume two things, first: Dragonite's stats accurately reflect the speed implied by the Pokédex (which is questionable given its rather unremarkable base speed of 80). Second: even the slowest legitimately obtainable Dragonite (80 base speed, Level 55, 0 speed IVs, 0 speed EVs, and a nature with a negative speed modifier for a total speed stat of 83) can reach that speed. If both of those things are true then that would mean that a speed stat of 83 is equal to a top speed of 694.5 m/s. Now, the fastest possible Mewtwo (Level 100, 31 speed IVs, 255 speed EVs, and a nature with a positive speed modifier) has a speed stat of 394; approximately 4.75 time faster than Dragonite. 694.5 m/s * 4.75 ≈ 329,8.88 m/s.

In other words, barring Chaos Control, base Mewtwo is approximately 9.7 times faster than base Shadow! Of course we all know that their speed in base form is ultimately irrelevant. What's going to decide the fight is Super Shadow vs Mega Mewtwo, so I've taken the liberty of breaking down their speeds a well.

Super Shadow: Just as base Shadow is equal to Sonic in speed so too is Super Shadow speed equal to Super Sonic, who is described in multiple sources as being able to move at near light-speed, or 299,792,458 m/s. Like his base form he can also access Chaos Control to achieve functionally infinite speed for a short time.

Mega Mewtwo: Although Mega Mewtwo X's speed stat is the same as its base form's Mewtwo does gain an incremental boost to his speed upon Mega Evolving into Mega Mewtwo Y. Once again assuming the fastest possible build (Level 100, 31 speed IVs, 255 speed EV's, and a nature with a positive speed modifier) Mega Mewtwo Y has a speed stat of 416. Using the same calculations I used to calculate its base form's speed we can conclude that Mega Mewtwo Y's top speed is 3,472.5 m/s.

Comparing the two it's clear that Super Shadow outspeeds even the fastest Mega Mewtwo build by so much it's not even funny. To be more precise Super Shadow is approx. 86333.32 times faster than Mega Mewtwo Y. Even if Mewtwo were to buff its speed stat as far as it would go (a Pokémon's stats are capped at 4x normal) Shadow would still outspeed it by a factor of 21583.33!

To summarize, when comparing Shadow and Mewtwo's base forms Mewtwo has a significant speed advantage. However, when it comes to their powered-up forms it's a different story. The stat boosts provide by Mega Evolution are just so infinitesimally small compared to those provided by Super Transformation that they may as well not be there in the first place (and that's before factoring in the other perks of Super Form like flight and invulnerability). Honestly Mewtwo would be better off trading in its Mewtwonite for a Focus Band. If only so that it has a 10% chance of surviving long enough to register what's happening before Super Shadow stomps it into the ground.

Very well done! But I have to point something out: Super Shadow has a very strict time limit; since there likely won't be any Rings for him to pick up, his form won't even last a full minute, meaning he'll have a very short time to finish Mewtwo.

Also, being faster isn't enough to guarantee victory on its own. Just ask

Spoiler

Gamera, Terminator, and Knuckles.

Mewtwo can use his moveset to protect himself and block Super Shadow's projectiles. Heck, he should be able to turn Edgy's Chaos Spears against him with his telekinesis! And he has Swift and Aura Sphere, both of which are guaranteed to hit their targets, regardless of how fast they are. Yes, Super Shadow is invincible, but I sincerely doubt he can finish Mega Mewtwo X/Y in less than a minute, considering he couldn't even take down a giant lizard with a cannon up its arse in three minutes- with Super Sonic's help, and without running out of Rings!

[Kaotic Kanine]

I'm sorry but I feel that I should point out something important with that analysis: the Pokedex is not a good source of information for Pokemon. Or, at least, it's not a good source of information in regards to a Pokemon's abilities. The Pokedex can offer insight on how a Pokemon behaves or how it lives, but other information, especially that of a Pokemon's abilities, range from questionable to completely absurd, even in the context of Pokemon. Here's just a few examples (two of them relevant to this discussion):

• Escavalier's Pokedex entry claims that it can "fly around at high speeds". It's Speed Stat: 20. It's pretty much impossible to be out-sped by this Pokemon, let alone for it to reach "high speeds".
• Magcargo's Pokedex entry is a popular one; apparently, the skin of these Pokemon is twice as hot as the surface of the sun. You can't even try to approach this thing without getting obliterated by sheer heat! This is also confounding since the Pokedex entries also claim that Magcargo's "shell" is its magma skin hardened by cooling, an impossibility with the temperature said skin is stated to possess.
• Grimer's entry is a hilarious one! Apparently Grimer came into existence when sludge from a dirty stream were exposed to the moon's X-rays... I don't think I even need to say anything more.
• Magikarp's Pokedex entries are good ones as well; some entries state that a Magikarp living for several years can leap over a mountain with Splash. However, other entries state that Magikarp can never jump more than seven feet, making them inconsistent with each other. It's also inconsistent with all other Magikarp entries, which go out of their way to point out how weak and pathetic Magikarp are! Does that sound like a Pokemon that can leap over mountains with a useless move, even if they lived for several years?
• And finally, Pidgeot; Pokedex regularly states that this Pokemon can fly at Mach 2 (twice the speed of sound, which would theoretically make this species faster than Sonic). Pidgeot's Speed stat: 91. While that may be faster than a good number of Pokemon (including the "around the world in 16 hours" Dragonite), that is hardly at all an impressive speed and, indeed, plenty of Pokemon out-speed a Pidgeot (such as Lopunny, an average, mundane rabbit). So either those Pokemon move at Mach 3+ or Pidgeot's entry is a load of Tauros. Much more likely, it's the latter.

So, ultimately, you need to take Pokedex entries with big grains of salt, even for the most genuine sounding ones.

[FriendBot]

Here's an issue when it come to the Super Forms, are we seriously going to put a gameplay limitation to a battle? I mean, if we're seriosuly going to consider that the Super Form can be around for 50 seconds, that's just silly to me. Since most boss fights in the games, last much longer than minute. And how about games like Unleashed where it's not limited to a Ring bar that slowly decreases ring by ring? I mean, in Advance 1's ending Sonic was still in his Super Form after defeating Eggman days ago so I really don't think keeping the 50 Ring limit is a valid limitation when it come to real-time battles, that's like saying extra lives count.

[Tori Himemiya]

One thing I do wanna point out is that is that calculating using Pokedex terms isn't really accurate as it exaggerates a lot, even if they give you a variable to work with. Escalavlier is known to fly around at high speeds which in the actual game it cannot Fly and its speed is at a pitful 20 which means Slowbro is the goddamn Flash. Pidgeot too has been infamously known to fly at Mach 2 but its speed isn't as good as you'd think with Miltank being faster than it. I applaud the work because I can't do math but the Pokedex isn't a reliable source of information.

But on the bright side though Mewtwo can learn RECOVER which can bring its health back up from 50% at the cost of using a turn in game terms. I completely forgot about this. Shadow does have his own healing abilities but in Battle at least he has one of the worst healing abilities in the entire game. So there you go a good and a bad thing in this post. Gotta balance it out.

[Forte-Metallix]

On 6/23/2016 at 8:53 PM, Soni said:

Here's an issue when it come to the Super Forms, are we seriously going to put a gameplay limitation to a battle? I mean, if we're seriosuly going to consider that the Super Form can be around for 50 seconds, that's just silly to me. Since most boss fights in the games, last much longer than minute. And how about games like Unleashed where it's not limited to a Ring bar that slowly decreases ring by ring? I mean, in Advance 1's ending Sonic was still in his Super Form after defeating Eggman days ago so I really don't think keeping the 50 Ring limit is a valid limitation when it come to real-time battles, that's like saying extra lives count.

Yeah, they do. Know why? Because Shadow's constantly collecting Rings. (Rings are mentioned via dialogue in SA2 and Generations, they appear in Colors' intro cutscene, and they're a plot point in Rivals 2. Point is, they're not just a gameplay mechanic) All three of Super Shadow's boss fights start him off with fifty Rings. If he could maintain it for as long as Sonic in Advance 1, he wouldn't have "died" in SA2.

And Unleashed's health bar counts as gameplay/story segregation.

More importantly, Super Shadow will fail against Mewtwo the same reason he did against Vegeta: He isn't offensively powerful enough to kill his opponent in such a short time; Mewtwo can use Barrier and Safeguard to defend himself, Recover to heal, Disable to negate Shadow's moveset, Power Swap and Guard Swap in the unlikely event that Shadow has better stats, and Me First and his own telekinesis to turn Shadow's attacks against him. (Remember, Super Shadow is invincible, but he can still be fazed/knocked around, costing him precious time) Not to mention Shadow's berserker mindset will cause him to quickly throw everything he has at Mewtwo, and when that doesn't work, he's completely screwed.

EDIT: We've got a new DBX, and this is quite possibly the most bizarre matchup in history:

 

[Bowbowis]

On 6/23/2016 at 11:24 PM, Forte-Metallix said:

More importantly, Super Shadow will fail against Mewtwo the same reason he did against Vegeta: He isn't offensively powerful enough to kill his opponent in such a short time; Mewtwo can use Barrier and Safeguard to defend himself, Recover to heal, Disable to negate Shadow's moveset, Power Swap and Guard Swap in the unlikely event that Shadow has better stats, and Me First and his own telekinesis to turn Shadow's attacks against him. (Remember, Super Shadow is invincible, but he can still be fazed/knocked around, costing him precious time) Not to mention Shadow's berserker mindset will cause him to quickly throw everything he has at Mewtwo, and when that doesn't work, he's completely screwed.

Shadow's not offensively powerful? His Chaos powers are among the hardest hitting attacks in Sonic Battle and he has some of the best physical strength feats of any non-power type character (e.g., flipping a bus with one hand in his own game). The strength of his muscles is also pretty much irrelevant to his striking power in Super Form; Multiple sources state that Super Sonic, and by extension Super Shadow, can move at the speed of light. As an object gains velocity the amount of energy required to propel it grows exponentially; at lightspeed the amount of energy required to propel an object with positive mass is infinity. Due to the equivalency of energy and mass, as stated in Albert Einstein's famous equation E=MC^2, this also translates to objects at lightspeed having infinite mass. Because force is derived from an object's mass this means that Super Shadow, traveling at lightspeed, can strike with infinite force. Even if we decided that Shadow was simply moving near lightspeed rather than actually moving at lightspeed we'd still be talking about forces that would make hydrogen bombs look like love-taps by comparison. Besides, even if that weren't the case it's not like Mewtwo is some indestructible damage sponge; it's HP, Defense, and S. Defense are, at most, slightly above average.

As far as Mewtwo's defensive powers go they don't really mean much against a guy who can circumnavigate the globe seven and a half times in a single second, there is just no way Mewtwo's reaction time is that good. Hell, even if Mewtwo could somehow act fast enough to defend itself Shadow can still freeze time with Chaos Control, which would leave Mewtwo helpless for more than enough time for Shadow to end the fight a couple trillion time over. As for Shadow being a berserker, the games alone have plenty of instances where Shadow (in cutscenes, under the player's control, and as a boss) is seen adapting to his opponent's tactics mid fight. There's also several cases of Shadow planning ahead and trying to gain information about his enemy before he makes a move. He's a GUN agent after all, he of all people should know the value of good intel and tactics.

 

On 6/23/2016 at 8:18 PM, Kaotic Kanine said:

I'm sorry but I feel that I should point out something important with that analysis: the Pokedex is not a good source of information for Pokemon. Or, at least, it's not a good source of information in regards to a Pokemon's abilities. The Pokedex can offer insight on how a Pokemon behaves or how it lives, but other information, especially that of a Pokemon's abilities, range from questionable to completely absurd, even in the context of Pokemon.

...

So, ultimately, you need to take Pokedex entries with big grains of salt, even for the most genuine sounding ones.

I know the Pokédex lists some pretty absurd information about Pokémon and actually noted it in my analysis when I said that Dragonite's speed stat was pretty unremarkable for a Pokémon that can supposedly move at over Mach 2. The point is that even with a best-case-scenario for Mewtwo, where all that exaggerated information is true and accurately reflected by the Pokémon's stats, it's still completely and utterly eclipsed by Super Shadow in speed.

[Forte-Metallix]

"Infinite force", huh? Then explain why he couldn't kill Vegeta, who isn't invincible. Or why he couldn't just one-shot any of his final bosses, for that matter.

And Mewtwo has plenty of moves to hinder Shadow's progress: Swift and Aura Sphere, which never miss, Confusion and Disable to cut off his abilities, Reflect, Barrier, Recover, and Endure to tank his attacks, and, as I've already said, Me First and his own telekinesis to send Shadow's attacks right back at him: Remember: Super Shadow can't be injured, but he can still be fazed and knocked around. If Super Shadow couldn't kill Solaris, Devil Doom, or the Biolizard on his own in less than a minute, then I seriously doubt he could do it to a smaller, faster target who's significantly more intelligent, has a move for just about any conceivable situation, and can turn any of Shadow's assaults against him.

[FriendBot]

But Shadow did kill Devil Doom on his own.......

[Forte-Metallix]

5 minutes ago, Soni said:

But Shadow did kill Devil Doom on his own.......

Might wanna read that sentence a bit more carefully.

13 minutes ago, Forte-Metallix said:

If Super Shadow couldn't kill Solaris, Devil Doom, or the Biolizard on his own IN LESS THAN A MINUTE, then I seriously doubt he could do it to a smaller, faster target who's significantly more intelligent, has a move for just about any conceivable situation, and can turn any of Shadow's assaults against him.

 

[FriendBot]

Again, using gameplay limitations seems to be pretty flimsy evidence to how it would actually go down.

[Forte-Metallix]

5 minutes ago, Soni said:

Again, using gameplay limitations seems to be pretty flimsy evidence to how it would actually go down.

Again, might wanna read my posts a bit more carefully:

On 6/23/2016 at 11:24 PM, Forte-Metallix said:

Yeah, they do. Know why? Because Shadow's constantly collecting Rings. (Rings are mentioned via dialogue in SA2 and Generations, they appear in Colors' intro cutscene, and they're a plot point in Rivals 2. Point is, they're not just a gameplay mechanic) All three of Super Shadow's boss fights start him off with fifty Rings. If he could maintain it for as long as Sonic in Advance 1, he wouldn't have "died" in SA2.

 

[FriendBot]

The lines in SA2 and Gens are just to direct the player about the Ring count, that's like saying all the lines in Schoolhouse are canon somehow. Where in Colors? If you mean the CG intro come on man. In Rivals 2, all was said that Silver needed Rings to recharge his powers, not for a Super Form. You forgot that in SA2, that was Shadow's first time going Super so he lacks the experience Sonic had and it's very likely he overexerted himself during the fight too.

[Forte-Metallix]

2 minutes ago, Soni said:

The lines in SA2 and Gens are just to direct the player about the Ring count, that's like saying all the lines in Schoolhouse are canon somehow. Where in Colors? If you mean the CG intro come on man. In Rivals 2, all was said that Silver needed Rings to recharge his powers, not for a Super Form. You forgot that in SA2, that was Shadow's first time going Super so he lacks the experience Sonic had and it's very likely he overexerted himself during the fight too.

But we've still no reason to believe he can maintain it for as long as Sonic in Advance 1.

Point is, Mewtwo's Mega Forms can't overpower Super Shadow, but he has more than enough healing, defensive, countering, and disabling/hindering moves to outlast him.

[Your Vest Friend]

Oh hey, Boss Battle 3 from Sonic Colours and Cosmic Fall from Shadow, how weird to hear them in the latest death battle. 

For reference;

 

[Bowbowis]

2 hours ago, Forte-Metallix said:

"Infinite force", huh? Then explain why he couldn't kill Vegeta, who isn't invincible.

Hey, that's physics man. Actually I'm pretty sure Death Battle has brought up the whole infinite mass at lightspeed in a one of their videos (one of the Superman Vs Goku fights I think). I don't know for sure why it didn't factor into Shadow vs Vegeta but if I had to guess I'd say it was probably the result of less thorough research in early episodes. Also the earliest source I can find for Super Sonic moving at lightspeed is the manual for the first All Stars Racing, which was pretty recent at the time of the "Shadow Vs Vegeta" so they may not have had access to the information in the first place.

 

2 hours ago, Forte-Metallix said:

Or why he couldn't just one-shot any of his final bosses, for that matter.

Devil Doom and Solaris were both fought almost entirely with Chaos Spears rather than physical strikes, and the latter is flat out confirmed to be invincible anyway. As for the Biolizard... well I could list several possibile in-universe reasons for why Super Forms they don't just one shot final bosses, but the real reason is that a boss that goes down in one hit simply doesn't make for a very fun battle.

 

2 hours ago, Forte-Metallix said:

And Mewtwo has plenty of moves to hinder Shadow's progress: Swift and Aura Sphere, which never miss, Confusion and Disable to cut off his abilities, Reflect, Barrier, Recover, and Endure to tank his attacks, and, as I've already said, Me First and his own telekinesis to send Shadow's attacks right back at him: Remember: Super Shadow can't be injured, but he can still be fazed and knocked around. If Super Shadow couldn't kill Solaris, Devil Doom, or the Biolizard on his own in less than a minute, then I seriously doubt he could do it to a smaller, faster target who's significantly more intelligent, has a move for just about any conceivable situation, and can turn any of Shadow's assaults against him.

Again, none of that matters when Shadow is fast enough to kill Mewtwo before it can even register what's happening. Even if Mewtwo could see Shadow start to move, determine how he's going to attack, decide on an appropriate defensive action, and execute said action in less than a microsecond it still wouldn't help it because Shadow can simply stop time with Chaos Control and kill Mewtwo while it has no way of defending itself.

[Forte-Metallix]

Unfortunately, all non-sponsors will have to wait until Friday to see who the true Ultimate Life Form is:

As a friendly reminder: If you happen to see it early or look up spoilers, please be courteous and not ruin the surprise for the rest of us.

[Shiny Gems]

Well, the Death Battle was shown today...

 

Shadow was executed, death by spoon.

Next time, we get to see two characters from Rooster Teeth fight,

 

specifically from Red VS Blue. They are Carolina VS the Meta.

EDIT: Here is the video.

 

[Forte-Metallix]

Just saw the fight, and I'd like to take this opportunity to say....

Spoiler

BOOYAH! 

Called it like a doctor to a flat-lining patient! Yeah, so much for Shadow's "infinite force" and "unstoppable Super form"!

Sorry, guys, but I'm afraid your Hedgehog...

*puts on shades*

was poorly trained. Mewtwo had this fight, beyond a SHADOW of a doubt! He sure had the upper EDGE! And he really knows how to BLOW SOME MINDS!

*does the "I Was Right" dance for the rest of the day*

 

[TCB]

Spoiler

When the info on the characters is marginally longer than the actual fight I know there's gonna be a squash...this was gonna be a quick fight. And holy crap Shadow got SQUASHED. Likes completely BURIED. Or in this case, SPOONED. 

Brain over Brawn for this fight indeed 

My boy Mewtwo did itagain. Ultimate Life Form? More like Ultimate Choke Artist hue

 

[Dejimon11]

Spoiler

HAHAHA oh man that's twice shadow has lost in a death battle hahahahaha! I am so glad that he lost. 

 

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

Spoiler

Poor Shadow can't catch a break, or spoon for that matter.

 

[Tori Himemiya]

I knew Shadow not being a Dark type was going to be the death of him!

Aw well GG Mewtwo. I'm gonna pass this next DB though. Its not anything remotely interesting to me.

[NegaMix]

So, the next battle...

Spoiler

...sounds like either some cross-promotion thing with Red vs Blue, or it's literally their episode for RvB Season 14. Either way, looks cool.

 

[Shiny Gems]

You know, I am perfectly fine with the death battle, but is it just me, or was this death battle a bit rushed?