Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Spin Attaxx]

Pretty sure that was the point, it's an Untiwst because of how obvious it was.

Yeah, showing Mike Pollock credited as Eggman/Rehash Nega in the ending BEFORE the final boss couldn't have been a mistake. It's like how Mega Man 10 tries to pretend Wily isn't the villain... even though one of the achievements (which you can see before you even start the actual game) is called "Whomp Wily!" - it's even the first achievement you see!

But, nethertheless, Wisker is currently rusting in pieces at the bottom of the ocean, never to appear again (probably).

Edited November 11, 2012 by Spin Attaxx

[Dr. Crusher]

Yeah, showing Mike Pollock credited as Eggman/Rehash Nega in the ending BEFORE the final boss couldn't have been a mistake. It's like how Mega Man 10 tries to pretend Wily isn't the villain... even though one of the achievements (which you can see before you even start the actual game) is called "Whomp Wily!" - it's even the first achievement you see!

No, I'm fairly sure that was deliberate. By that point, Capcom themselves didn't bother to hide it. It was only there because... well, it's part of the Mega Man routine.

[Vertekins]

I think people like Archie Silver more because he isn't a gullible cretin manipulated by a Shadow recolour. Also, since he's in a comic, he doesn't have an annoying voice.

Instead they turn him into an idiot who acts as if he's never heard of the concept of a nickname before and who goes around accusing others of being traitors with no compelling evidence behind such accusations.

[Soniman]

And I still find him more likable because he isn't a giant tool who being tricked by what is essentially satan and (for better or worse) actually bothers to do his damn research.

[Diogenes]

And I still find him more likable because he isn't a giant tool

He still seems like a tool, from what I read.

e: and wasn't/isn't that mammoth guy his mentor or something?

Edited November 11, 2012 by hella jeff

[Your Vest Friend]

He still seems like a tool, from what I read.

The jury's still out on that, I think. He's taking most of his instructions so far from Mammoth Mogul, and we can't be sure whether his intentions are genuinely good or whether he's using Silver to try and get more powerful. So for all we know he might still be being tricked by a god-powerful being.

[Spin Attaxx]

No, I'm fairly sure that was deliberate. By that point, Capcom themselves didn't bother to hide it. It was only there because... well, it's part of the Mega Man routine.

That's pretty much what I was saying.

[Soniman]

The jury's still out on that, I think. He's taking most of his instructions so far from Mammoth Mogul, and we can't be sure whether his intentions are genuinely good or whether he's using Silver to try and get more powerful. So for all we know he might still be being tricked by a god-powerful being.

Well I think Future Mogul is actually legit, and it's not like he himself is telling Silver who to hunt down and kill, Silver does all the research on his own volition for the most part.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Instead they turn him into an idiot who acts as if he's never heard of the concept of a nickname before and who goes around accusing others of being traitors with no compelling evidence behind such accusations.

Really? Because the main reason he accuses people in the first place is because he looked for evidence that led him to jump to conclusions. And that's the very thing that gets called out every time he does that too to the point that he's stuck in the present to prevent him from potentially causing any paradoxes as a consequence.

And in his defense, a post-apocalyptic world where dozens of books and other sources of information about his world are ripped and/or hidden doesn't make it easy for anyone to look for evidence. And even more to his defense, he's doing this almost on his own.

Edited November 11, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

Oh right, fair enough then, my apologies. It's hard to tell when someone's being serious or not now and then, and I was worried that if I did mention that in my original post about Black Knight, I'd get the expected "But you're being very intense about him not being in it, so that means it did bother you" response.

I don't think anyone really feels that way around here mang. I mean, I can't really understand where you're coming from about the game, if you don't elaborate how can I know?

I see where batson's coming from. Eggman is certainly a more enjoyable character nowadays, and so are Sonic and Tails as well, yet this increase in the fun of their characterization is symptomatic of the problem of the current narratives not really possessing any kind of aesthetic variation or depth. The cast is toony all the time, which means the situations have to be or are more inclined to be toony all the time, which means that things like black holes, corrupted Wisps, mind control, and Time Eaters don't get the serious elaboration they deserve, and overall the stories suffer significantly. Unleashed was much better in this department, allowing Sonic and Chip some room to be two comedic buddies and get into some amusing situations, but when things got down to brass tacks, they could have slower moments where their friendship was reaffirmed or could take a situation seriously in a bid to protect the Earth and one another.

Potentially heretical opinion here, but while a game has to be engaging all the time, not every single moment in a game has to be fun. There can be moments where something is sad, or something is extremely serious, or frightening, or heartwarming, all of which are engaging in their own ways. Whether or not the older games always succeeded in putting across these different kinds of moments, there is absolutely no question that they were at least going for them, which in turn made the stories inherently more interesting to follow. Nowadays, whatever seriousness is there is not only thrown to the backseat but out of the car altogether, and this isn't really a good thing. It would be fucking awesome if Eggman could threaten a town with a missile or hold Amy hostage at gunpoint again alongside his ability to just be mere comic relief, and it'd be even better if this kind of balance could be applied to everything in the stories as a whole from now on.

I understand and agree with this, but my personal preference is more in characterization and not much on story, so I never had a problem with Eggman being basically a hammy over the top manchild 24-7, as it still makes him a good character regardless. Yes, at the moment, Sonic, Tails, and Eggman aren't very Dynamic or Rounded, but I never really felt they needed to be. I'm not against more fleshed out characterization, but if the character is already good, I don't see a problem.

[batson]

And yet, he's still the most enjoyable part of the newer games, so Tropes aren't Bad in this case as it serves to make Eggman an amazingly entertaining character to watch.

I agree that, generally speaking, a character doesnt have to be anything else than one-dimensional. There are definitely a lot of enjoyable one-dimensional characters out there. But in the case of Eggman, i personally feel that the older, more rounded version of the character was both more compelling and, even more importantly, fulfilled his role as an antagonist in a more satisfying way. The modern Eggman is presented in a too thoroughly humorous way to create any sense of danger from the players point of view (regradless of how devastating his acts are from an in-universe point of view).

[Mr. Taxi]

Potentially heretical opinion here, but while a game has to be engaging all the time, not every single moment in a game has to be fun. There can be moments where something is sad, or something is extremely serious, or frightening, or heartwarming, all of which are engaging in their own ways.

Yes.

Much like nothing compliments the pleasure of eating more than hunger, I believe the games have to set some variation so that the fun moments can be discnerned and actually seen as fun. Comic relief isn't really relief if there isn't anything to relieve you from. So, yes, I'm an advocate of the silly Eggman as long as he does get serious when it is deserved. This way, you can actually notice when you should be getting your emoticons ready.

I, for one, like Sonic OVA's characterization. To be fair, Robotnik didn't have any serious moments at all, if I can remember correctly. Still, his situations were dead serious and who made you see that was Sonic, because he was serious.

[KHCast]

I'd actually rather collect medals than do one entire playthrough of Playing it safe to the max Generations.

That's my unpopular opinon for the day.

Just curious but um....why? Medal hunting is so painfully boring. At least generations I can find fun in more than one way with that. And I don't spend lots of time in one stage.:/

[Kuzu]

I agree that, generally speaking, a character doesnt have to be anything else than one-dimensional. There are definitely a lot of enjoyable one-dimensional characters out there. But in the case of Eggman, i personally feel that the older, more rounded version of the character was both more compelling and, even more importantly, fulfilled his role as an antagonist in a more satisfying way. The modern Eggman is presented in a too thoroughly humorous way to create any sense of danger from the players point of view (regradless of how devastating his acts are from an in-universe point of view).

I'm not disagreeing with you, in fact I can agree that Eggman's current characterization tends to undermine the severity of his actions, due both to his lack of range in characterization, and how lax and in control Sonic is about the whole thing. But I'm more of a person prefers a character's entertainment value. I don't really mind current Eggman at the moment, and it would be nice if the story treated him as a threat rather than an annoyance.

[Nepenthe]

I understand and agree with this, but my personal preference is more in characterization and not much on story, so I never had a problem with Eggman being basically a hammy over the top manchild 24-7, as it still makes him a good character regardless. Yes, at the moment, Sonic, Tails, and Eggman aren't very Dynamic or Rounded, but I never really felt they needed to be. I'm not against more fleshed out characterization, but if the character is already good, I don't see a problem.

The problem is that it doesn't lend itself to stories that are any better than what we're getting with Colors and Generations (which in themselves are pretty bad), which would be fine if they didn't want to shoehorn in apocalyptic destruction or little tiny beings being tortured into a feral state throughout their narratives, but that's what they keep proceeding to do anyway. If Colors was strictly a comical affair the entire time and got rid of its serious moments, it would still be pretty light but ultimately a stronger story in its consistency. As it stands, these serious moments are ultimately let down in part by a cast that have been characterized as only catering to comedy and "fun," and nothing else.

If Sonic, Tails, and Eggman and by extension the rest of the cast are going to act as they are from now on with no variation in emotion or character, then just spare me the dramatics and my ultimate disappointment from the start, because the way they're currently written isn't conducive to handling anything beyond a Looney Tunes routine of a generic winner and loser pit against each other amid a backdrop of jokes. In order for a moment of genuine emotion or danger to connect with the best possible impact on the audience, the cast is going to have to stop being funny all the time.

[Kuzu]

The problem is that it doesn't lend itself to stories that are any better than what we're getting with Colors and Generations (which in themselves are pretty bad), which would be fine if they didn't want to shoehorn in apocalyptic destruction or little tiny beings being tortured into a feral state throughout their narratives, but that's what they keep proceeding to do anyway. If Colors was strictly a comical affair the entire time and got rid of its serious moments, it would still be pretty light but ultimately a stronger story in its consistency. As it stands, these serious moments are ultimately let down in part by a cast that have been characterized as only catering to comedy and "fun," and nothing else.

If Sonic, Tails, and Eggman and by extension the rest of the cast are going to act as they are from now on with no variation in emotion or character, then just spare me the dramatics and my ultimate disappointment from the start, because the way they're currently written isn't conducive to handling anything beyond a Looney Tunes routine of a generic winner and loser pit against each other amid a backdrop of jokes. In order for a moment of genuine emotion or danger to connect with the best possible impact on the audience, the cast is going to have to stop being funny all the time.

I think it's more because Colors & Generations are trying to tell a story that's not really there. It's like it wants to be simple, yet still tries to come off as complex by throwing all of these world ending scenarios like you said. Yes, the plots don't lend much beyond a generic Looney Tunes cartoon, but I don't really think that's the problem. If the current story telling was more towards satire and parody, then it'd be fine, but it tries to play it off as serious despite no reason to do so.

I've never been a huge advocate for stories in the games, but if you're going to make every character as one-dimensional as possible, and focus more on comedy, stop creating these world ending scenarios and try to play them off as serious. If you don't want to tell a story, then just give us the gameplay and leave it at that.

[Nepenthe]

My problem is that I am an advocate for story inasmuch as I would much rather stories be reasonably told on the level of your generic western animated film, mainly because I don't believe what we have now is ideal, even if Sonic Team perfected the actual formula. The Sonic series never positioned itself in the beginning as having the kind atmospheric banality that plagues mediocre children's media in general. Things could get significantly dangerous and Sonic is a character with the capability of putting aside his more charming qualities to handle danger with the seriousness it may deserve, so it still blindsides me every time I'm told that asking for even Disney level storytelling is some gargantuan task that is completely beyond the series' scope. Makes me bitterly think these people want Care Bears instead.

[Komodin]

Things could get significantly dangerous and Sonic is a character with the capability of putting aside his more charming qualities to handle danger with the seriousness it may deserve, so it still blindsides me every time I'm told that asking for even Disney level storytelling is some gargantuan task that is completely beyond the series' scope. Makes me bitterly think these people want Care Bears instead.

[Kuzu]

It's not that people want Care Bears, it's that they want to play a game, not look at the characters talking for five minutes at a time. Sonic games more often than not, never have amazing stories, yes there are exceptions but they're usually mitigated by something else about the game being faulty, usually the gameplay. Even if the story is amazingly well done, if the gameplay sucks nobody is going to care which probably attributes the Adventure games being as divisive as they are despite their arguably great stories by the series` standards. If Sonic Team ever wish to pursue more story driven games in the future, they need to make sure it's well done and doesn't detract from the gameplay, and make sure the gameplay itself is good.

Frankly, all that tells me is that the person thinks Sonic Team is apparently so damn dumb that they can't do anything right without fucking up some other thing. I'd rather not assume that they'd be that clueless...

[Alice Twilight]

Just curious but um....why? Medal hunting is so painfully boring. At least generations I can find fun in more than one way with that. And I don't spend lots of time in one stage.:/

[Dr. Crusher]

Dude, let's be fair, Sonic Team have had some major fuck ups in the past, and to an extent they still do, so you can't blame people for being just a little cynical towards them.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Dr. Crusher

[Mr. Taxi]

It's not that people want Care Bears, it's that they want to play a game, not look at the characters talking for five minutes at a time.

[Kuzu]

"Just a little cynical" =/= Painting them as a bunch of monkeys that don't have any form of human intelligence.

Look, I know they're not perfect - no one is - but it really irritates me on how a lot of people insist SEGA and Sonic Team must be the devil's puppets, meticulously devising the downfall of their franchise.

[Diogenes]

Look, I know they're not perfect - no one is - but it really irritates me on how a lot of people insist SEGA and Sonic Team must be the devil's puppets, meticulously devising the downfall of their franchise.

Well I don't think they're evil, just stupid. There's a difference.

[KHCast]

It's exaggeration.

I just don't like Sonic Generations at all.

I would still play that then boring medal hunting imo. Hell, I'd even play 06.