The Ace Attorney Topic (DS, 3DS, iOS) - News in OP

[sonicgirl313]

Because it's too hard to do research if you don't get something.

It also helps to expand your knowledge, so it's a win-win situation, unlike Woolseyism that uses a very steryle subjective point of view to alter things just for the sake of comodity. On paper may be fine, but it's a practice that's never used without side effects that transforms the product too much radically. And it's not a compromize i'm willing to accept so eagerly.

 

Clarification: i'll stile like the AA games. I'm just condemning Capcom for this practice and the fact that with that interview they shown they don't care.

Well the Japanese Culture is still intact. They just kind of merged it with American references. In other words yeah Phoenix Wright was the original Big Hero 6.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Because it's too hard to do research if you don't get something.

There's a time and place to do something. Not saying that other cultures shouldn't make an appearance at all, heck even Woolseyism knows when to leave some things in. What I'm saying is that when certain details that are key are rather foreign to a market you're trying to sell to, let's just say it can break pacing and experience for the players if they have to go and look up stuff constantly just to understand what's going on.

 

 

It also helps to expand your knowledge, so it's a win-win situation, unlike

Not quite. What you're suggesting isn't guaranteed, a win-win situation. It's actually an end of the spectrum. Yes, in theory, it could be rather educational, but it would eventually reach a point where the translation is more lecture than actual story and game experience for the players. Imagine for those who aren't as familiar with the other nations to begin with, how annoying it would ge to constantly have to be explained joke after joke, concepts weighing on a reference that need full explanation to understand, a speech on why this or that is suddenly taking place, in respects to a national religion or heritage, etc when in the original nation's version is fully aware already.

 

If anything, Woolseyism actually does occasionally find a middle ground, sometime including the foreign references in more minor areas sometime ala cute references where they wouldn't per say, slow down the story while also making the it conveniently comprehensible for players sparing them of tasks potentially equivalent to FFXIII's data-log.

 

 

Woolseyism that uses a very steryle subjective point of view to alter things just for the sake of comodity.

I think you're kind of mis-crediting Woolseyism there. It's much, much more than just that actually. In fact, it's kind of the norm for good localizations all over the place. it changes some thing s for various reasons, as opposed to just changing them for the sake of translation. Not just for convenience, but sometime even to make it more enjoyable or convey a mood that other may find more fitting. Stuff like this

 

• Xion's attack at the end of Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days had one line which relied on Japanese Pronouns. In the Japanese version, Xion, despite looking like Sora, uses "Atashi" confirming that she thought of herself as female. In the English version, the line was restructured into the third person "Now it's time for this puppet to play her part.", not only keeping the gender implications but indicating the isolation she felt from what she wanted to what role she had to play.

, comes to mind. And it extends beyond just visuals and text of course

 

In regards of Kingdom Hearts, the original Japanese version of the first game had the battle with Chernabog set to the same music all the other Disney boss battles were set to. In the West? Take a wild guess.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Woolseyism/VideoGames

, even goes beyond just games, let alone for just localization to english speaking countries, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Woolseyism/WesternAnimation .

 

 

I'm just condemning Capcom for this practice

Well if you're going condemn Capcom for doing it, you may as condemn all those companies who've done it, such as Level 5, Atlus, Gamefreak, the Metal Gear team, the list goes on and on, pretty much almost any localization worth talking about.

 

and the fact that with that interview they shown they don't care.

Err, actually it's the opposite of what you think there. See, they actually care enough to stay consistent with the American vibe thing due to what happened with the Ace Attorney localizing script:

 

Take a look at the characters, environments, and cultural references of Ace Attorney, and it's hard to ignore the game takes place in Japan. Contrary to this surrounding evidence, the English language version of the game establishes the setting as the United States, all thanks to a single piece of evidence from the very first chapter. Though this choice would become less believable with each passing sequel, Smith explains how his hands were tied on the matter: "Normally, what you do in a situation like that is leave [the location] vague. You just say, 'Hey, we're in Nowhere Land,' and you adapt the cultural references that will go over the heads of your audience. The specificity of the setting had to be made because there was an episode where this guy has some sort of clock his girlfriend gave him. It had to be set to some time zone, and we were like, 'Oh, crap. I guess we have to be specific about it.' So we just chose that without really thinking that much about it.

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/expert-witness-an-interview-with-alex-smith-the-writer-behind-ace-attorneys-english-debut

 

And they've actually managed to pull it off. Furthermore when it comes to Ace Attorney and it's "Woolsey" translations, it's summed up quite well here why a translation changing nothing wouldn't quite work per say: http://www.usgamer.net/articles/expert-witness-an-interview-with-alex-smith-the-writer-behind-ace-attorneys-english-debut

 

Game play in the Ace Attorney series often boils down to the specificity of language—which posed a unique challenge to Smith and Anderson. When asked about how he pulled this off so effectively, Smith details his thoughtful approach to this game's localization:  

 

"I remember a lot of the back-and-forth between [the characters] were misunderstandings and wordplay. And the the only way you can translate that is you look at what the scene is doing, and analyze it, really, like a director... When a director gets a script from his writer, he's looking at it, and he's saying, 'I've got these words they have to say, and some information here, but what am I going to make it look like?' He's translating it into this visual medium. And for a translator working on a game like Phoenix Wright, you have to look at it like a director would look at it. You know, 'What's this scene trying to accomplish? Where are the beats in this scene? Okay, there's a punchline here, there's some information seeded in these places, and that gives you your conclusion here—which also has to be humorous and reference the funny gag from five lines earlier.' 

Honestly at worst, you could really consider it a necessary evil.

Well the Japanese Culture is still intact. They just kind of merged it with American references. In other words yeah Phoenix Wright was the original Big Hero 6.

That too, yeah.

[Solly]

If you like let your intelligence and respect for a different culture getting insulted because a translator thinks you can't bear things like a japanese setting or specific terms, go ahead.

This is a bit unfair. I'm actually really critical of the way the Ace Attorney localizations lampshade obviously-Japanese things, but this isn't about insulting the audience's intelligence or worldly knowledge-- it's about selling a game. 

 

They needed to give it as broad of an appeal as possible to a Western, specifically American audience. The problem with translating games is that it's not a 1:1 process, and a lot of cultural context and nuances are going to be lost on foreign audiences. Character names are a great example of this. Nearly every character's name is a play on words that is meant to be recognizable by the player. Non-Japanese players aren't going to get that Naruhodou, Phoenix's JP surname, means "I see" or "I understand," which fits with his role in the games as a sleuth of sorts. The name "Phoenix Wright" has its own meaning that you don't need the internet or a Japanese-to-English dictionary to figure out. And they couldn't very well change the names without changing the setting itself.

 

Shu Takumi gave his blessing to the localization team to change what they needed to. The end result is very sloppy,  but they had to choose between broadening their appeal and being faithful. I don't hold a company trying to sell a product to the same standard as, say, fans subtitling episodes of an anime. Capcom needed to make a product that would have as much reach as possible, and leaving things unchanged simply wouldn't do that. I personally think of Ace Attorney as more of an adaptation than a translation.

[Salamander]

I think there would always have been an implied shift to a western setting anyway, simply because of the names; because they're all puns, they absolutely have to be localised.

 

Edit: See above, basically, but I reaffirm the point.  The games would not be anything like as enjoyable in the west if they were about Ryuichi Naruhodo, and it would be a serious misrepresentation of the original product not to localise the names into puns the audience will actually get - just as they were in Japanese.  Localisation preserves the spirit of the original by making it accessible; the Japanese audience didn't have to sit there looking at Japanese-to-English dictionaries and encyclopedias every five seconds.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

While I disagree on the opinion of it being sloppy, I do see where you're coming from.

[sonicgirl313]

Alright so I finished Case 3 in Trials and Tribulations and I have to say that I was in hysterics throughout the whole case. Seriously all the moments were hilarious and the only moment I felt said was when it revealed the backstory for a certain character. The killer also had me laughing and I couldn't breathe when Godot actually referred to himself as "The too-cool guy with a robot visor." So pretty much Case 3 was a laugh fest for me.

Though I will say this.

Phoenix probably knows how Sonic feels since everyone easily believed Tigre was him when he was disguised as him. Seriously no one questioned why Phoenix suddenly had a different personality, extremely tanned skin, more height and muscle, and the fact he was carrying around a cardboard badge?

[Blue Blood]

Well, Godot clearly knew what was up. He just didn't bother saying anything. Lol

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Well, we also got everyone willing to allow Phoenix to rot in jail because of a egotistical prick claiming he was the killer, despite having no motive, evidence, and being a suspect himself.

[sonicgirl313]

Well, we also got everyone willing to allow Phoenix to rot in jail because of a egotistical prick claiming he was the killer, despite having no motive, evidence, and being a suspect himself.

And don't forget how they were pretty much willing to believe the testimony even though it was conflicting with the previous testimony.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Plus the fact that despite bring clearly guilty, hiding something, and lying, the judge always allow them to change their testimony, for example Ini Miney.

[sonicgirl313]

Well I beat Case 4 and my mouth dropped open at how it ended. Honestly I did not see that coming.

I've been playing Case 5 and so far it all has given me surprises but I also squealed in delight when

it revealed Egdesworth is playable for the Case since Phoenix is temporarily out of commission.

Though that part with the psych-locks, I pretty much yelled no along with the character as well.

[Junko]

Well I beat Case 4 and my mouth dropped open at how it ended. Honestly I did not see that coming.

I've been playing Case 5 and so far it all has given me surprises but I also squealed in delight when

it revealed Egdesworth is playable for the Case since Phoenix is temporarily out of commission.

Though that part with the psych-locks, I pretty much yelled no along with the character as well.

Bridge to the Turnabout is the best case in the franchise, just saying.

 

Before you motherfuckers jump down my throat, 2-4 is second best.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

And Case 2-3 is one of the worst cases in the series.

[Junko]

And Case 2-3 is one of the worst cases in the series.

Lol, like there's competition.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Bridge to the Turnabout is the best case in the franchise, just saying.

 

Before you motherfuckers jump down my throat, 2-4 is second best.

I'd say that Turnabout Goodbyes, Reunion And Turnabout, Bridge To Turnabout and Turnabout For Tomorrow are tied for best.

 

With Turnabout: Rise From The Ashes, Farewell My Turnabout, Recipe For Turnabout being tied for second best of course.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I hate the circus music in Case 2-3. It just sounds crappy and it's so damn repetive.

[Blue Blood]

Lol, like there's competition.

 

We've all had this discussion before

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I'd say that Turnabout Goodbyes, Reunion And Turnabout, Bridge To Turnabout and Turnabout For Tomorrow are tied for best.

 

With Turnabout: Rise From The Ashes, Farewell My Turnabout, Recipe For Turnabout being tied for second best of course.

Oh! And the Stolen Turnabout for third if not not another 2nd placer as well! Mustn't forget about that glorious case too!

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I have to admit, I never really got the sense that focus was really ALL THAT moved AWAY from Phoenix in Dual Destinies. I'm quite pleased that it doesn't appear to be the case still.

[Sean]

I consider Apollo and Athena to be the rightful protagonists of AA5. Phoenix is there to hold the family of dorks them together in a sense

[sonicgirl313]

Just finished Case 5 so I will say this...

HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!! That was amazing and shocking at the same time. Considered me blown away. Also can I say how much I hate two certain characters in that game. Ugh I never thought I would encounter characters I hate more than Von Karma, Franziska, and Engarde.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I consider Apollo and Athena to be the rightful protagonists of AA5. Phoenix is there to hold the family of dorks them together in a sense

Meanwhile I see it as equal sharing of the protagonist mantle.

Hopefully it'll continue on to be equal sharing in Ace Attorney 6.

[Sean]

It's not that Phoenix takes a backseat in terms of spotlight, but I do feel like the story doesn't prioritize him in the way it does toward Apollo and Athena. He doesn't get his own development arc in the same way the other two do, probably because his arc was wrapped up pretty well in the trilogy

[sonicgirl313]

I still can't believe Maya is only mentioned in Dual Destinies, I really wanted to see how she looked as a 25 year-old. Heck we even got to see an older Pearl, yet no Maya!

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

It's not that Phoenix takes a backseat in terms of spotlight, but I do feel like the story doesn't prioritize him in the way it does toward Apollo and Athena. He doesn't get his own development arc in the same way the other two do, probably because his arc was wrapped up pretty well in the trilogy