Sonic Generations : General Hacking Thread

[Scott]

No indigo you didn't deserve to be neg repedd for being truthful...I your back though.

Listen people this is SEGA we are talking about...Sonic Team is not responsible 100% for the release of their game...they have a job to do. That job entails that they make a finish a game within a certain amount of time.

You know why 2006 was super shitty? Because Sonic Team weren't done with it...and were pressured to release of an unfinished game to the public just for sales...they not only did this once...but they did this twice with Unleashed which was ALSO unfinished in release. Generations is going to be the first HD game they have were they were given an extra amount of extra time to dish out content and while we know kinda that we might only get 9 zones (might get more who knows) we have a ton of missions in store that may be actually levels themselves. We might get the most content and replay value in years.

My point is Sonic Team isn't SQUARE ENIX (Final Fantasty 13 was in developent FOR YERS btw),EA (Deadspace 2 another game also took 3+ years),Or Konami (Castlevannia Lord of shadows...the same people that makes tons of super successful games like Metal Gear Solid 4).

Sega is a company that's actually DROPPING in sales by each year that goes by...they don't have Super Set Ups like a lot of other gaming companies has. And as a company they have to keep the money rolling or else SEGA goes under and there just MIGHT not be Sonic anymore. But now that their games are indeed improving as company because they realize that if they don't step up their game there gonna be issues...now is when the start giving a fuck.

Still Sonic Team has a deadlines to meet...they don't have AS MUCH STAFF as you think making this game. In fact I would even have to say SEGA taking a big money dump on Generations hoping that maybe just maybe this time they might get a super seller and giving it more than normal development time than usual.

Delaying Sonic Generations to 2012

Wanting multiple disk and crap

Wanting more zones and levels when we might just have well over enough

You seriously don't understand how much TIME and EFFORT it makes to make HD games these days.

You ask about Sonic being short...(like it always was...its about gameplay and repeatability that matters the most...Vanquish proved this.)

So I ask you guys this...you want the WEREHOG back?( I know this is a bit subjective, but you know what I mean lol.)

Learn a bit of humility and understanding...setting some expectations is cool and all, but JEEZZZ guys.

[Indigo Rush]

The Werehog argument is bullshit, Voyant. Noone's asking them to bring it back to make the game longer, they're asking them to make more Sonic levels. Werehog is completely irrelevant.

( I know this is a bit subjective, but you know what I mean lol.)

Don't put words in his mouth, please.

Voyant said a lot of things I haven't been able to materialize onto the computer screen, and I'm siding with him. (long crazy day when I made that last big post, couldn't figure out how to make my point.)

If Sonic Generations was in development for something like 7 years with the paradigm of a story-less progression-less list of levels with no rhyme or reason, then yeah, having something on a multi-layer disc (I still think 2 discs is silly, why worry about 2 discs when you can have 1?) makes more sense.

Also, I don't remember who said it, but someone proposed the Sonic 3 & Knuckles lock-on argument to prove favor for having multiple discs.

Key differences:

Each game was large enough to stand on it's own.

Each game was sold separately and cost full price.

And the problem with length? A good-sized Sonic game on one disc, even with the amount of length needed to travel in Sonic games, will still be possible without the extra gameplay styles and quirks that don't seem to fit. The sheer amount of mini-missions and acts are there to keep us busy.

Remember Sonic Adventure 2? They may have had tons of gameplay that didn't match with traditional Sonic, but despite there being only 10 speed acts, there were 4 other missions to complete per level, with increasing difficulty as you went along.

The point is that you can make a Sonic game with less than 12 or so levels and still have a rather lengthy campaign, if you so choose. That was kind of the beauty of it all, in the originals, you can either blow through all the levels and win, or you could scavenge for rings and get the extra Chaos Emeralds, you could try speed running and time attacking, and you could just dawdle around and explore the level for fun! (though at the time, you had a 10 minute limit, not anymore though)

And you know this how?

Press conferences and interviews. It's pretty well known.

Anyway, I'm done with this debate. Thanks to those who stepped in to help defend what I was trying to say.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[Tatsumaki]

Someone thumb up Indigo. I accidentally neg repped him. D:

[frokenok3]

Someone thumb up Indigo. I accidentally neg repped him. D:

Don't worry i got your back...

So with this out of the way!

I agree with Indigo and Voyant. The game doesn't need to have over *insert number of stages* to have a long campaign.

We already have over 2 acts with missions, mini games, speedruns for some people, different gameplay style to master, co-op, Red rings for possible Super Sonic unlock(and play the same stages on Super Sonic), find multiple routes and discover new paths, credit points to unlock more stuff and i'm sure we will see DLC.

And to think we know all these from the Demo folder what if the final version of the game has even more content.

I think there is a lot of replay value here guys.

Don't get me wrong though i want more levels too but i understand that the people at Sonic team are working their asses off to please the fans and to make an awesome game in time for it's release!!!

I prefer an awesome game with less stages than a rushed game which tries to fit in more stages.

And from the looks of it this game is gonna become the Holy Grail of the Sonic Series!

[Scar]

Its not about how long the game is, its about how good it is.

A long boring game is NOT better than a short but fun game. The existance of Sonic 3 and Knuckles is proof enough of this concept, because Sonic's story can be completed in less than 2 hours. Does that mean its a bad game?

The problem with a character like Sonic, is that he's fast. Sonic tears through stages, meaning that a full-length game can only be so long.

Generations is to have abotu 9 stages with at least 2 acts. If each act averages about 5 mins, then the game will take around 90 mins if its a perfect run. However, its doubtful the first run through will be a perfect one, so it will probably take longer than 90 mins, drifting towards 2, maybe 2 and half hours. Then there are the extra acts.

Sonic is a platformer, not an RPG, the game doesn't need to be 40-100 hours long to be considered good.

[krazystitch]

Basically, what Scar said. Sonic has always mainly been about having quick levels with platforming that's basically just getting from point A to point B. Some people try to do that as quickly as possible and others like to try out the different paths and stuff. Point is, there's never really been all that much to look around and explore with other than going back and replaying levels.

Sonic games have always been quick. Hell, there's an achievement on the Xbox 360 port of the original version that's about beating the game in under 40 minutes. 40 minutes! Now, also as Scar has said, even with 9 different types of zones/stages each with 2 different acts, it's still going to be pretty easy to rush through the game in a few hours. It really isn't anything new.

But, is this a problem? The way I see it, no. It's not. I personally find it a ton of fun to go back and play old levels and try to get better times on them, and I know a bunch of other people who do too. Doing that alone has probably given me more hours in a Sonic game than I ever could have come to expect. The amount of stages and levels seems fine to me and nothing to complain about, plus it's going to be full of a bunch of bonus content and maybe even DLC. This will definitely give us reasons to come back and play the game if it's any good, just like it has in the past.

[Detective Shadzter]

Sonic Wrecks has possible exclusive info coming soon

And now a little note on where we are with the little exclusive I talked about a while ago: It’s unsure whether the details will appear here on SW, or will be revealed via SEGA – however the specific details, which relate to the early days of Generations, were agreed to, prior to my leaving the company, be revealed via me since I thought they were significant and since…well…it is actually my work/story so I thought I should have the right to tell it. I’ve actually been waiting VERY patiently for about five months now for this to go out, however with all the level details out of the bag there doesn’t seem much point in waiting much longer. Hopefully SEGA will get their act together on this. Otherwise you’ll hear from us soon and the details will be revealed.

A little surprised no one has put 2 and 2 together on this one actually…

http://www.sonicwrecks.com/news/generationsproductpage/

I wonder if AAUK's referring to the co-op stuff.

[Spooky Mulder]

However with all the level details out of the bag

Guess that confirms that there are NOT any levels in addition to the ones leaked in the demo.

[turbojet]

Don't put words in his mouth, please.

Voyant said a lot of things I haven't been able to materialize onto the computer screen, and I'm siding with him. (long crazy day when I made that last big post, couldn't figure out how to make my point.)

If Sonic Generations was in development for something like 7 years with the paradigm of a story-less progression-less list of levels with no rhyme or reason, then yeah, having something on a multi-layer disc (I still think 2 discs is silly, why worry about 2 discs when you can have 1?) makes more sense.

Also, I don't remember who said it, but someone proposed the Sonic 3 & Knuckles lock-on argument to prove favor for having multiple discs.

Key differences:

Each game was large enough to stand on it's own.

Each game was sold separately and cost full price.

And the problem with length? A good-sized Sonic game on one disc, even with the amount of length needed to travel in Sonic games, will still be possible without the extra gameplay styles and quirks that don't seem to fit. The sheer amount of mini-missions and acts are there to keep us busy.

Remember Sonic Adventure 2? They may have had tons of gameplay that didn't match with traditional Sonic, but despite there being only 10 speed acts, there were 4 other missions to complete per level, with increasing difficulty as you went along.

The point is that you can make a Sonic game with less than 12 or so levels and still have a rather lengthy campaign, if you so choose. That was kind of the beauty of it all, in the originals, you can either blow through all the levels and win, or you could scavenge for rings and get the extra Chaos Emeralds, you could try speed running and time attacking, and you could just dawdle around and explore the level for fun! (though at the time, you had a 10 minute limit, not anymore though)

Great post.

However, since I was the one who wanted more stages and pretty much made the argument, I stand a reason to atleast clarify why. I never complained about hours of gameplay. I am a huge fan of Mirror's Edge and Portal(notoriously short games) and I don't mind a short and joyful experience as long as it maintains the enjoyment level. I am in college afterall. I want more stages because it seems like a rip that Sonic Generations,which is supposed to explore and re-invent the past games, only has 9-10 stages. I still think that there is enough space for the game to squeeze out a few more additional stages and I am not going to stop believeing until otherwise stated. This is supposed to Sonic's big 20. There are countless stages and tropes(this word is getting massively overused on this board) that the little blue guy has explored.

I was simply hoping to remedy the variety complaint or atleast pan to a braoder sense of nostalgia. Level design be damned, I know that anyone would want more levels in the game just to cater to their entertainment and diluted memories of the past.

[sonfan1984]

Is level details the same as there won't be any additional levels that are leaks in the demo?

[kadosho]

Sadly I cannot indulge with the Generations demo, as my 360 is out of commission. But from what I've read, and followed thus far, its worth getting into.

This topic alone celebrates what we fans, both new, and past enjoy or dislike about the series. As long as I've enjoyed the media that videogames were, and now an increased part of what is a hobby. Sonic the Hedgehog to me was a celebration of 1) being free, 2) doing what you can, 3) and taking your friends along for the ride.

Generations completely brings it all back, and maybe even more that we never knew about the blue hedgehog. I hope that all of us here on TSS will find something we enjoy most out of this next adventure, and maybe share even more what each person experiences when they play this title.

What are games about? Fun.

[Stasis]

Sonic Wrecks said

I have an idea as to what it is referring to, and I asked this at the time but got no answer.

Sonic 4 features Modern Sonic. Generations has Sonic going back in time to classic styled levels, which would enable him to be in these locations in his modern image. Therefore, Sonic 4 is linked to Generations in some way?

Edited July 2, 2011 by RaptorRampage

[Detective Shadzter]

Guess that confirms that there are NOT any levels in addition to the ones leaked in the demo.

I expected as much.

Is level details the same as there won't be any additional levels that are leaks in the demo?

Yeah, it means this is definitely all of the levels in the game. AAUK worked at SEGA remember, and he will have seen and likely played the game in full long before now. For example, he says in that article, he's had his exclusive info planned for 5 months now.

[Indigo Rush]

For the record, I can at least understand the desire for many levels, in the particular instance that this is the big 20th. If I was in charge, I'd make it so we have at least 18 levels, no story, no hubs, and a massive amount of fanservice.

This not being the case, however, I'm willing to defend the business decision that SEGA has made, and their direction for this is understandable in the context and reasoning that this is another chronological entry into the series. Once this is taken into account, 9 levels makes sense, considering the pattern previous Sonic games have followed. The organization of the levels and their selection are in congruence not only towards fanservice, but in relation to the plot as well. Think about it, we have Sky Sanctuary in the HD version, and Launch Base in the 3DS version. Why? Because both feature the Death Egg's relaunch in the background.

At any rate... I already said I wouldn't partake in this debate again (look at me being a hypocrite! ) but I felt like I should clarify my stance... General Sonic games don't need massive disc space; gluttonous collections do. This is not a gluttonous collection, so that's that.

A massive collection would have been awesome, though. That way, more of everyone's favorite levels could have made it in... :/

Edited July 2, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[Detective Shadzter]

At least this means we can rest assured that they're very likely at the point of polishing the game, even though there are many months to go until release. Should mean the final product will be of high quality I really don't mind only having 9 levels, BUT DON'T FORGET, the leaks revealed we have something like 5 missions in every level.

[Scar]

I'd rather have 9 really well-designed levels and a polished engine, than 18 half-ass levels, with minimal engine updates.

[Marcello]

I'd rather have 18 really well-designed levels and a polished engine.

[Shaddix Leto Croft]

I'd rather have a polished engine, a fun game with great levels but I don't care how many levels it has.

But I wonder what Sonic Wrecks surprise is ? I hope it's the first cutscene of Modern and Classic Sonic meeting that would be very cool

Edited July 2, 2011 by SHADDiX LeTO CRoFT

[Voyant]

I'd rather have 18 really well-designed levels and a polished engine.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Voyant

[Scar]

I'd rather have 18 really well-designed levels and a polished engine.

[ProfessorZolo]

I'm a little late in replying, but...

Its not about how long the game is, its about how good it is.

A long boring game is NOT better than a short but fun game. The existance of Sonic 3 and Knuckles is proof enough of this concept, because Sonic's story can be completed in less than 2 hours. Does that mean its a bad game?

[Scar]

I'm a little late in replying, but...

Isn't Sonic 3 & Knuckles longer than Sonic 1 and 2?

I mean, I totally agree with you about a great short game is better than a long boring one, but... Y'know?

It just seems like you were putting holes in your own argument there.

[sonfan1984]

Me too..I sure everyone does. But being done in 3 years by just Sonic Team?

No...send a note to Sega and tell them to give Sonic Team more development time...maybe they will listen. :/

[Voyant]

Their respective length has nothing to do with how good they are. 3&K is generally regarded as being better because it had better level design. S1 and S2 are still good, but how many levels they are, or how long they are generally has little impact on the quality of the game as a whole.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Voyant

[Vec]

Seeing all this things discovered on the demo, it's strange that they didn't find any voice clips...maybe they left the essentials only