General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Wraith]

What the fuck does that have to do with the Wii U's success?

[Conando]

The marketing issue I just brought up?The PS4 and Bone took the world by storm despite weak launches and future prospects.

[Solkia]

Wow we really need something else to talk about.

[Conando]

Yes, yes we do. This is fucking agonizing.

[Wraith]

The marketing issue I just brought up?The PS4 and Bone took the world by storm despite weak launches and future prospects.

 

They were sold to gamers practically on future prospects. Part of the Wii U's problem is that it's future prospects aren't nearly as good and it's a year in.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Wow we really need something else to talk about.

 

 

Yes, yes we do. This is fucking agonizing.

We could all pop over to the SSB4 thread and talk about possible Advance war reps just a thought

[Conando]

The PS4 and Bone have the same amount of uncertainty. No games seem to be coming for some time. People know about some, and hope about others. This is an exact repeat of the last few hardware launches.

[redhellc]

You can't be serious. You really think the only issue the Wii U has is marketing? The Wii U could have the best commercials in the world and it wouldn't "save" anything. You can't market an unappealing product. 

 

How is it really unappealing?

[Dejimon11]

The Wii U's problems run much deeper than the PS3's did, and even then, the PSP didn't even sell half what the DS did.

 

The Wii U is already being called "the next Dreamcast". It has been for months. But you know something the Dreamcast had that the Wii U still doesn't? An amazing, varied library of exclusive games that gave the system an identity of its own and cemented it as a classic in the eyes of many gamers. 

 

The Wii U can not and will not be saved. Nintendo's goal of 9 million units sold by the end of the fiscal year will not be reached, and investors will not be happy. The PS3 and PSP had problems, but they were built to be future-proof. The PS3 especially. The Wii U's problems are getting bigger and bigger as its competitors gain more sales, and its already miniscule chances of turning things around are diminishing.

 

It's time they shut up, stop apologizing and asking people to "please understand", own up to their mistake and improve. Make a kickass console next time and win back that respect.

 

 

 

Wow this statement is so wrong i dont even know where to begin.

 

 

You can't be serious. You really think the only issue the Wii U has is marketing? The Wii U could have the best commercials in the world and it wouldn't "save" anything. You can't market an unappealing product. 

 

in a way he's right people thing that the wii u is an add on to the wii for some reason

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

 

 

You can't be serious. You really think the only issue the Wii U has is marketing? The Wii U could have the best commercials in the world and it wouldn't "save" anything. You can't market an unappealing product. 

Discoid, even the saturn could have been saved with better marketing.... well actualy, it was the marketing that helped kill it, the head of SOA's marketing department hated it. The whole part of marketing is to sell something, I mean look at the crazy stuff that has been sold because of good marketing, like pet rocks, or the Delorian(yes I count back tot he future as marketing XD)

[Wraith]

The PS4 and Bone have the same amount of uncertainty. No games seem to be coming for some time. People know about some, and hope about others. This is an exact repeat of the last few hardware launches.

 

As an example, We know for sure that a good chunk of Sony franchises are coming to the PS4, along with dozens of third party games that have already been announced and shown off in detail.

 

The Wii U is lacking in both those departments. Especially the second one. 

[azoo]

I can almost guarantee that if Nintendo didn't put all their focus of advertising on being a second "family get-together" system then this would've fared better* for them. Families of generations past don't understand what it means to have more than one console, if they can play bowling on the Nintendo Super Woobly TV-Stick then they won't see the point in needing a Nintendo Boopity Family-Pad, meanwhile kids and adults alike get hyped for Xbone and PS4 for being what they are: game consoles.

 

* - how much better idk but I'm gonna take a wild guess and say a lot better

 

The gamepad was anything but a bad idea, though. It's literally just a wider controller with a tablet in the middle. And it's comfortable, and a sturdy brick. They just needed to not make the console itself require it so much, so they could make the Pro Controller the face for actual gaming on this thing. I also wish they'd stop advertising the Wiimote with this console altogether; was and still does fit the definition of "unconventional" when speaking controllers, and only confuses the masses about this console even more.

 

So yeah, Nintendo could really use some shaping up of their advertising. The console's technically a bit behind compared to the other two, but it in itself is fine. The marketing is just poop on a stick.

[Jolt_TH]

I have to admit, I want a Wii U, but if they kill it and develop another then I'll be out if the console race for a good few years, it takes me forever to save enough money for a bloody game with the spare wages I have, let alone a console! I'd be really pissed, if it's a possibility I might not even buy one :/ which is a shame because there are a fair few games is love to play on it

[Conando]

As an example, We know for sure that a good chunk of Sony franchises are coming to the PS4, along with dozens of third party games that have already been announced and shown off in detail.

 

The Wii U is lacking in both those departments. Especially the second one. 

Explain the first one. Everyone knows about these for Wii U. Mario, Mario Kart, Pikmin, Yoshi, Super Smash Bros., Donkey Kong, Zelda. For PS4 we know: Killzone, inFamous, Uncharted. The second one is a valid point, the first is just blatant ignorance.

[Sami]

How is it really unappealing?

 

Well, let's see...

 

• No third party support
• Seven year old hardware
• Lack of games
• Price raised by a gimmick that isn't appealing enough to warrant its price. 
• Biggest draw lies in its Nintendo games, which even after a whole year on the market have only just started to find their way into stores.

 

Discoid, even the saturn could have been saved with better marketing.... well actualy, it was the marketing that helped kill it, the head of SOA's marketing department hated it. The whole part of marketing is to sell something, I mean look at the crazy stuff that has been sold because of good marketing, like pet rocks, or the Delorian(yes I count back tot he future as marketing XD)

 

I disagree. Don't get me wrong, marketing is a big deal, but it's not all it needs. There are fundamental problems that the Wii U has, and the longer Nintendo tries to deny that, the longer they'll be apologizing and asking people to understand. It's pathetic.

 

I've already addressed why the other two consoles are selling more. They're new, and they promise new features, new games, and new technology both now and in the future. Killzone is a mere launch game and is already one of the best looking games out there, because it's heavily optimized for the hardware unlike PC games. Uncharted 4 is being developed by one of the most talented teams in the entire industry, who also happen to have recently acquired a very talented individual on their team. Corinne Yu from 343 Games, (AKA the reason Halo 4 is the best looking 360 game). That'll most certainly impress when it's revealed.

[Wraith]

Everyone knows about these for Wii U. Mario, Mario Kart, Pikmin, Yoshi, Super Smash Bros., Donkey Kong, Zelda

 

For one, Nintendo's poor advertising garunteed that no, not everyone knows about those. Hell, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who's even aware Pikmin 3 came out when it did. 

 

Secondly, that's a decent number of exclusives, yeah, but since they're basically the only games coming out, the Wii U's selection is MORE than a bit weak compared to the others.

[Sami]

Explain the first one. Everyone knows about these for Wii U. Mario, Mario Kart, Pikmin, Yoshi, Super Smash Bros., Donkey Kong, Zelda. For PS4 we know: Killzone, inFamous, Uncharted. The second one is a valid point, the first is just blatant ignorance.

 

The PS4 isn't supported by Sony alone. This isn't the case with Nintendo, who have been left on their own to support their hardware for years now. 

 

I bought my PS4 not only because of Uncharted and Infamous, but also because I'm extremely hyped about Final Fantasy XV, Destiny, Kingdom Hearts, and so on. All games that are not coming to Wii U.

I can almost guarantee that if Nintendo didn't put all their focus of advertising on being a second "family get-together" system then this would've fared better* for them. Families of generations past don't understand what it means to have more than one console, if they can play bowling on the Nintendo Super Woobly TV-Stick then they won't see the point in needing a Nintendo Boopity Family-Pad, meanwhile kids and adults alike get hyped for Xbone and PS4 for being what they are: game consoles.

 

* - how much better idk but I'm gonna take a wild guess and say a lot better

 

The gamepad was anything but a bad idea, though. It's literally just a wider controller with a tablet in the middle. And it's comfortable, and a sturdy brick. They just needed to not make the console itself require it so much, so they could make the Pro Controller the face for actual gaming on this thing. I also wish they'd stop advertising the Wiimote with this console altogether; was and still does fit the definition of "unconventional" when speaking controllers, and only confuses the masses about this console even more.

 

So yeah, Nintendo could really use some shaping up of their advertising. The console's technically a bit behind compared to the other two, but it in itself is fine. The marketing is just poop on a stick.

 

The gamepad is a neat idea, yes, and it most certainly is not a bad thing conceptually, but it also bolsters the price by roughly $150. Do you think that's worth it?

[Remy]

The Wii U's problems run much deeper than the PS3's did, and even then, the PSP didn't even sell half what the DS did.

The Wii U is already being called "the next Dreamcast". It has been for months. But you know something the Dreamcast had that the Wii U still doesn't? An amazing, varied library of exclusive games that gave the system an identity of its own and cemented it as a classic in the eyes of many gamers. 

The Wii U can not and will not be saved. Nintendo's goal of 9 million units sold by the end of the fiscal year will not be reached, and investors will not be happy. The PS3 and PSP had problems, but they were built to be future-proof. The PS3 especially. The Wii U's problems are getting bigger and bigger as its competitors gain more sales, and its already miniscule chances of turning things around are diminishing.

It's time they shut up, stop apologizing and asking people to "please understand", own up to their mistake and improve. Make a kickass console next time and win back that respect.

 

 

You can't be serious. You really think the only issue the Wii U has is marketing? The Wii U could have the best commercials in the world and it wouldn't "save" anything. You can't market an unappealing product.

 

 

It's funny that you drew the Dreamcast/Wii U comparison without, seemingly even understanding why that comparison exists in the first place.

 

Why do you think the dreamcast was killed? I have some ideas: It actually did reasonably well as a system with the aforementioned unique library, particularly in the US, until a new Sony fronted juggernaut appeared, promising lifelike graphics the likes of which people had never seen before via the Emotion Engine- allegedly powerful enough to be hoarded by Saddam to guide UAVs and capable of simulating the human brain.

 

So you're sitting there and the PS2 is on the horizon making some big, big promises and the Dreamcast is here already, looking pretty good, but you already don't trust SEGA because the saturn sucked, the 32x sucked and the SEGA CD sucked. And SEGA themselves aren't doing anything to rectify the situation whilst Sony are looking better and better.

 

Then the PS2 actually comes out and Tekken Tag Tournament doesn't even look better than Soul Calibur, which is like two years old or something at this point. Dreamcast on the whole has way better looking games than the PS2 at launch.

 

Did it matter at that point? no way. You know why? The battle was already lost purely on public perception. On marketing.

 

I admit, the Wii U/DC comparison doesn't really holdup- the PS4 is actually a fair bit more powerful, although you can't tell comparing 3D world to the parade of butt that is Knack, but elements, such as lingering negative public perception from a previous console (the Wii, in this case ruining the Wii U for core gamers) and people "holding off" to buy something percived as being more future proof definitely give it Dreamcast vibes.

It's also amusing hearing you say the Wii U doesn't have unique or interesting games- I take it you either don't have one or haven't bought Super Mario 3D Land or The Wonderful 101- both of which are better than anything on the PS4/Bone by a ridiculous margin.

 

The Wii U's real problem remains it's public perception. Most people still think it's a controller or an add on for the original system. if not just the Wii itself- which was made obvious to me when the clerk at the game store wouldn't sell me 3D world until I made it clear that yes I had a Wii U and yes I know this game isn't for a regular Wii like 3 times.

 

I'm emphasizing this. 3 fucking times. if that's not a marketing issue I don't know what is. 

 

And then there's those that know it's a new system: "the Gamer Group", but don't think it's new enough compared to their powerhouse PS4s and Bones with absolutely nothing to play on them.

 

The focus needs to be on two fronts for them, differentiating the console from it's predecessor and showing people that the Wii U and it's confusing tablet controller offer fresh, entertaining game experiences. The console itself is fine as is. There's nothing wrong with it.

 

 

 

I bought my PS4 not only because of Uncharted and Infamous, but also because I'm extremely hyped about Final Fantasy XV, Destiny, Kingdom Hearts, and so on. All games that are not coming to Wii U.

Where are these games at launch exactly? Oh right- they're fucking nowhere. Existing in the same ether as new Zelda, new F-Zero, new Metroid, etc.

 

You know why you really bought that PS4? For the same reason people don't buy Wii Us. Marketing. Sony promised you gold and you bought in. Nintendo don't promise enough gold and people ignore it. 

 

It's also pretty ridiculous parroting that "oh my god the gamepad adds so much to the price" argument, when, in at least Australia the Wii U is still $200 cheaper than the competition.  

[azoo]

This thread is going in circles.

 

Discoid, I know you don't mean it, but you seem like you're just plain dead-set on wanting to deny any claims that Nintendo can salvage themselves from this, or that there is anything salvagable about what we have right now. Because there is. There's a decent lot of stuff salvagable from the Wii U, and no matter how many times "seven year old hardware" or "no games / third party support" or "bad idea for gimmick" is brought up, there will be the same points made about why none of that matters too terribly much, and you'll automatically dismiss it, bring those issues up again, ad infinitum.

 

This is how it has been for at least the past 30 pages mong, and I'm not wanting to seem like I'm backseat modding at all as much as I am trying to make a point. Nintendo's being verrryyyyy dumb about their console, but the Wii U can be salvaged, regardless of whatever being "so much less powerful than the Xbone/PS4" is supposed to mean; because really all that matters is third-party giving a shit, which would require Nintendo to give one as well.

Also,

The gamepad is a neat idea, yes, and it most certainly is not a bad thing conceptually, but it also bolsters the price by roughly $150. Do you think that's worth it?

Play games and other ease-of-access things all around your house to your comfort, fun touch interaction things, decent second screen for menus and special stuff when playing with the TV, drawing pad, camera, etc... All while being $100-$200 cheaper than the other two competitors even combined with the actual console? Yeah, I don't see a problem with it if you make it more secondary to the main controls.

[Sami]

This thread is going in circles.

 

Discoid, I know you don't mean it, but you seem like you're just plain dead-set on wanting to deny any claims that Nintendo can salvage themselves from this, or that there is anything salvagable about what we have right now. Because there is. There's a decent lot of stuff salvagable from the Wii U, and no matter how many times "seven year old hardware" or "no games / third party support" or "bad idea for gimmick" is brought up, there will be the same points made about why none of that matters too terribly much, and you'll automatically dismiss it, bring those issues up again, ad infinitum.

 

This is how it has been for at least the past 30 pages mong, and I'm not wanting to seem like I'm backseat modding at all as much as I am trying to make a point. Nintendo's being verrryyyyy dumb about their console, but the Wii U can be salvaged, regardless of whatever being "so much less powerful than the Xbone/PS4" is supposed to mean; because really all that matters is third-party giving a shit, which would require Nintendo to give one as well.

 

I was in the middle of responding to Remz, but fair enough. I am "dead set" on saying so because I believe it to be true, and I want to see them improve and move past this. I don't agree with the notion that those issues don't matter, and will debate about why as long as people do so. 

 

Like you said, third party needs to give a shit for the system to succeed, but at what point do you believe that'll happen? What needs to be done to make them care? Every possibility that's brought up is being shot down. Wonderful 101! Pikmin! Zelda bundle! And so on and so forth... the only possible solution Nintendo seems to be offering is "surely *game* will save the Wii U!" when nothing seems to be helping. It's aggravating to me, especially when people even here constantly come up with excuses as to why it isn't doing well.

 

I love Nintendo. Your avatar and sig there? Awesome. Kirby's my shit and it's amazingly fun. Kirby Wii was a fantastic game, though I would have liked it even better if Nintendo had any degree of competence with online integration. Kid Icarus and Pokemon X? Two of my favorite games of all time now. Star Fox 64 and Ocarina of Time? Classics that even over a decade later are still fun even to this day. Remember the N64 days when Nintendo literally led the industry in software quality? When the most important games of the decade were absolutely theirs without question? Why doesn't that happen anymore?

 

Seeing Nintendo grow complacent, completely reactionary in their business strategies, and lazy is genuinely upsetting because I know their potential and want them to do better. It's like a kid who's proven himself a genius yet refuses to apply himself in school. It's fucking aggravating. That's why I give them so much shit while I hardly care what Microsoft does, good or bad. I don't care about MS, whereas Nintendo fucking up and being stupid is annoying beyond belief.

 

Until we see results I'll be shooting down the countless excuses we get every fucking time one of the Wii U's "saviors" fails to save anything. But fine, I'll just quit for now if I'm annoying people.

[Remy]

Remember the N64 days when Nintendo literally led the industry in software quality? When the most important games of the decade were absolutely theirs without question? Why doesn't that happen anymore?

 

 

 

...It does still happen?

 

 

Oh but wait, I forgot. Knack sold better than 3D World so obviously the game sucks. Silly me, I forgot the most important thing was sales, not quality! As gamers have seemingly all become businessmen/financial analyst/consumer hybrids.

[Sami]

 

 

 

...It does still happen?

 

 

I said it isn't the most important game of the generation or an industry leader that everyone will flock to copy and learn from. I never said it wasn't an amazing fucking game, but it's no Gears of War, Call of Duty, Uncharted, or even a Galaxy.

 

edit - whatever. I'm just bothering people at this point. 

[Swiss]

Just dropping in today to mention that I sold twice as many Wii U consoles than I did PS4s at work today.

 

Shit felt goooood.

 

Yeah, it was 2 Wii Us to 1 PS4 but my point still stands!

[Wraith]

but it's no Gears of War,

 

pfft

 

 

But aside from that I see where Discoid's point is. Nintendo used to be the example while delivering the quality. Now they just have the quality. It's a pretty simple argument. Nobody is questioning that and they'd be foolish too. You guys are just jumping the gun rushing to defend the thing at this point.

[Remy]

I said it isn't the most important game of the generation or an industry leader that everyone will flock to copy and learn from. I never said it wasn't an amazing fucking game, but it's no Gears of War, Call of Duty, Uncharted, or even a Galaxy.

 

edit - whatever. I'm just bothering people at this point. 

Well it's been out for less than a week, you don't think it's a little too early to judge what impact it's going to have on the generation, or gaming as a whole?

 

I'm pretty sure Gears didn't take over the universe in it's first week, either. and none of those games have had to do something as difficult as turn around the Wii U, either :>

 

Still, the sports team-esque obsession everyone seems to have with their chosen console not only succeeding but dominating baffles me. This is OT but it seems so many people are more interested in the game of console wars, comparing spec sheets and sales charts than the games and consoles themselves.

 

I just want to play fun games.