General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Sami]

Knack's getting bad sales in America? News to me. I haven't heard anything about its sales myself but launch games tend to sell well regardless of reviews. I've heard plenty of good impressions of it as well. It's no Mario World, obviously, but it's fun.

[Conando]

Indigo speaks the truth. Look at what happened the one time a company actually did this.

[azoo]

Yeah, I was about to say. It would also be a massive middle finger to whatever games their inner studios are working on right now, anyways.

 

They shouldn't make a new console, but rather "upgrade" it a bit more and make a new strategy.. 

 

Do stuff like bundle consoles with a Pro Controller as well, making the Gamepad optional (also stop advertising games to be played with Wiimotes, please). More hard-drive space. Updating the Wii U menus to be a bit more on par with XB1/PS4 but still retaining it's own feel (after all, PS3 and 360 did that kind of thing multiple times in their lifespans). Actually confront these third parties and get them to work with you instead of inviting them and watching them not come in. Make advertisements that actually grab the attention of the gamer demographic instead of making commercials for no one but the kids and parents and crossing your fingers for the best. 

 

Also, for kicks, maybe settle on calling it the U or something from now on to set it apart more?

 

I don't know. I'm just listing off ways they can take this without jumping out of the race and jumping back in. It'd be a waste of people invested's time and money, and leave everyone even more confused than they were before.

[FourCartridge]

*sigh*

 

I guess it's time to cross out 3D World on the "what could save the Wii U" chart.

 

 

Don't forget what else bombed in Europe:

 

[Conando]

Are we seriously using the NeoGAF blackboard? It's getting almost impossible to talk regularly about Wii U.

[Sami]

Nintendo won't can the Wii U, it'll have the traditional Nintendo cycle. I still don't get why people think it's a better idea to discontinue a console and risk completely alienating the customer. It's not like this Wii U 2 would magically fix things just because it's prettier.

Which customers? The handful of early adopters? The vast majority of Wii U owners are Nintendo fanatics, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. Release the games that would appeal to that group and they'll be happy.

Look at the Dreamcast. It was active for only two years before it died, but you know what? It's well-regarded as a great system with a fantastic library of classics, especially by SEGA fans like us. Nintendo can handle the Wii U the same way. Release games to satisfy the customers who trusted and invested in them, and satisfy the ones that didn't ignore them. Mario's a great start. Then we'll get Smash, MK8, Donkey Kong, X, Zelda U, and hopefully more in 2014 and 2015, with a few more games as well.

Also, implying that anyone is saying Nintendo's problems will instantly be solved with the Wii U's death is ridiculous. They have to learn and adjust. Your very post highlights one of the problems - "it'll break the traditional cycle". Who cares? That's good! Nintendo needs to be proactive. Learn from their mistakes and adjust.

Release a console in two years and the Wii U will have had three years and a respectable library of Nintendo games for Nintendo fans. Then they should LEARN from what made the Wii U an abysmal failure sales-wise and adjust to the market to really make their mark.

I want Nintendo to do well. I really do. I love the games on their handhelds and they own some franchises that I really love like F-Zero, Star Fox, Zelda, Pokemon, and Kid Icarus. But the fact of the matter and the reason that the Wii U is such a failure is that they have grown complacent, lazy, and outright incompetent at times.

I really, really hope that the Wii U's failure is the slap in the face that opens their eyes to their own potential.

[Milo]

Don't forget what else bombed in Europe:

 

 

 

Wii Fit and Wii Party are bombing? And is it just in Europe, but also elsewhere as a whole?

[FourCartridge]

Wii Fit and Wii Party are bombing? And is it just in Europe, but also elsewhere as a whole?

 

Well, since it didn't take much for the PS4 and Xbone to surpass it, It's safe to say so. I know from a quick Google search that Wii Party U sales spiked for a bit, but it went back down as usual the next week. Donno about America numbers, but they can't be good.

[Cyalume]

Remember the times when Nintendo (or engineers/groups representing a product Nintendo was responsible for) could actually gloat about the power of their console at least somewhat? The benefits that the cartridge format could bring, the texture filtering abilities, the works. Thats what I remember from this video of Silicon Graphics talking up the Nintendo 64.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKlbx5niBu8
For those unaware, via the video's description:

Nintendo 64 is the culmination of work by Nintendo, Silicon Graphics, and MIPS Technologies. The SGI-based system design that ended up in the Nintendo 64 was originally offered to Tom Kalinske, then CEO of Sega of America by James H. Clark, founder of Silicon Graphics. SGI had recently bought out MIPS Technologies and the two companies had worked together to create a low-cost CPU/3D GPU combo that they thought would be ideal for the console market.

 

No such thing from them these days. I'd like to go back to a time where Nintendo was vying to create a powerful, capable machine again with a few plausible innovations on the side. I'm tired of gimmicks, glasses-free 3D doesn't impress me anymore, and I couldn't care less if I have an additional touchpad controller to play with (as nifty as it may seem). As the Wii U has shown, the overwhelming cost of the controller isn't worth having to lower the budget for the actual console itself.


One of the main things that turns me away from the Wii U is that its main selling point is well... boring, to me. I can't see any practical reason for its existence. I enjoyed the Wiimote, and I got real use out of it: It made navigation much easier, the motion controls were unique for the time and easy to use. It brought back an NES style layout for simpler games, which I much enjoyed. The Wii U, however, depends upon an overpriced, battery sucking monstrosity of a gamepad that I've heard is quite uncomfortable, and demands that one switch their attention back and forth between a large set and a small set, which in itself sounds unappealing to me. The Nintendo DS is a situation all its own: The screens are spaced a very short distance from each other, making it easy enough for me to hold it a bit farther away to see what I need to all at once. The Wii U isn't like this: How am I supposed to devote my attention to two screens at the same time? And if you argue its value as, say, a tool for displaying minimaps... Isn't an entire gamepad for that mere functionality just a bit overkill?

What I want from Nintendo is a machine not unlike the Playstation 4. Powerful (for a console), and focused on those who enjoy playing videogames.  I understand that they've been trying to aim for new and creative ways to play games: and thats fine. I must say that this particular concept that they've come up with, however, does not interest me for what it is worth. The inclusion of this unsuccessful idea has sapped away resources that could've gone into making the machine itself more powerful, which is unfortunate, and one of the reasons why I dislike the gamepad. I never liked the concept from the start, to be honest. If you are so desperately in need of a device that will allow you to play games while a family member watches the main television, it might be worth investing in a smaller, cheaper 720p set. You'd get it for around the same price as the controller, anyway, if not less.

[Autosaver]

. I'd like to go back to a time where Nintendo was vying to create a powerful, capable machine again with a few plausible innovations on the side.

 

Weren't both the N64 and Gamecube blown out of the water by competition?

 

I've heard is quite uncomfortable,

 

..But it's not. Most people say it's one of the most comfortable controllers they've ever used.

[Gabz Girl]

Fact of the matter is, Nintendo fucked up with the Wii U. They fucked up in creating an unimpressive piece of hardware in an attempt to cause lightning to strike twice, and they fucked up in advertising the bloody thing to the general populous. Now they're reaping the consequences, which are indeed gloomy for reasons perfectly explained above. You can be optimistic that they may be able to turn it around, but that need not come with shoving aside the problems with their handling of it nor playing the blame game with anyone but Nintendo.

 

Sorry Nep, but while I agree with you about Nintendo fucking up the Wii U (though several major third parties are also to blame, especially EA) I do not agree with you at all about saying the Wii U is unimpressive hardware. So what if it doesn't have OMFG AMAZEBALLS graphics compared to Xbone and PS4? So what if the gamepad is slightly flawed and the online (which is free btw) isn't used to its advantage? People like me who grew up with Nintendo are just happy to finally see them step into the HD zone. They don't have to bloody follow the other consoles example.

 

And hey, I can turn around too and say that IMHO the Xbone is unimpressive because its specs aren't as high as the PS4 and it looks like an entertainment box with Windows 8 (which sucks) functionality. That's my opinion, and I wonder...have you actually played a Wii U? Just curious.

 

 

What I want from Nintendo is a machine not unlike the Playstation 4. Powerful (for a console), and focused on those who enjoy playing videogames.  I understand that they've been trying to aim for new and creative ways to play games: and thats fine. I must say that this particular concept that they've come up with, however, does not interest me for what it is worth. The inclusion of this unsuccessful idea has sapped away resources that could've gone into making the machine itself more powerful, which is unfortunate, and one of the reasons why I dislike the gamepad. I never liked the concept from the start, to be honest. If you are so desperately in need of a device that will allow you to play games while a family member watches the main television, it might be worth investing in a smaller, cheaper 720p set. You'd get it for around the same price as the controller, anyway, if not less.

 

So if you say it's unsuccessful, then why did Sony and Microsoft copy Nintendo's gamepad idea by creating the Remote Play and Smartglass respectively? They also copied Nintendo's Wii remote and look how that developed!

[Solkia]

N64 launched a year later than the competition when the PS1 already gained a strong lead.

 

Gamecube was a console with some of the best hardware of the generation, bogged down by lack of DVD support and the worst disc format ever used in the industry.

Sorry Nep, but while I agree with you about Nintendo fucking up the Wii U (though several major third parties are also to blame, especially EA) I do not agree with you at all about saying the Wii U is unimpressive hardware. So what if it doesn't have OMFG AMAZEBALLS graphics compared to Xbone and PS4? So what if the gamepad is slightly flawed and the online (which is free btw) isn't used to its advantage? People like me who grew up with Nintendo are just happy to finally see them step into the HD zone. They don't have to bloody follow the other consoles example.

 

And hey, I can turn around too and say that IMHO the Xbone is unimpressive because its specs aren't as high as the PS4 and it looks like an entertainment box with Windows 8 (which sucks) functionality. That's my opinion, and I wonder...have you actually played a Wii U? Just curious.

 

It's a touchpad slapped on last-gen hardware. It's unremarkable.

[Conando]

Funny that, the PS4 and Xbone use last gen hardware too. They're weaker than PCs from 2010. Just saying that power is, and always be, a dumb argument when talking console merit.

[Scar]

Uh... haven't Nintendo platforms always sold like shit in the UK? Same with the software?

Irrelevant. The 360 absolutely DOMINATED the PS3 in the UK, yet Sony managed to get a complete turnaround and have usurped Microsoft's poll position in the UK.

Its not about what's happened in the past, its about how you handle things now.

The PS2 was a runaway success everywhere, but did that translate to 155 Million sales for the PS3?

Same shit happening with the Wii U. The Wii was popular mostly everywhere, but that hasn't translated over to the Wii U very well at all.

Nintendo thought they could get away with trying to pander to the same audience that they managed to penetrate with the Wii, except the consumer electronic's market has moved on so much since then. And you know what...they paid for it.

Nintendo don't need to drop the Wii U and pull out a successor. What they need to do is re-brand the console. They need to make a serious effort to turn things around, or watch their new console sink lower than the GameCube.

[Detective Shadzter]

Uh... haven't Nintendo platforms always sold like shit in the UK? Same with the software?

 

I'm not surprised that the PS4/Knack outsold Mario there.

No. The Wii and its games sold very well here, just like anywhere else, as did the DS. 3DS is also doing well. 

[Sami]

Funny that, the PS4 and Xbone use last gen hardware too. They're weaker than PCs from 2010. Just saying that power is, and always be, a dumb argument when talking console merit.

 

Wonder why both are already coming close to the Wii U's lifetime sales after a mere two weeks on the market, then. I guess a million Americans flocked to the store to play Killzone and Knack on day one?

 

PCs are irrelevant to this discussion as they have always been. Until the Steambox gains traction and becomes a cheap and accessible alternative, PC power does not have any bearing on the console space.

[Dejimon11]

After seeing the idea tossed around a bit, I actually quite like the prospect of Nintendo killing the Wii U in a year or two after releasing a few games to make it worthwhile for the handful of people that did buy it. Having hardware slightly stronger than the PS4 would get them in a good position for the future, since they hardly like to compete with the others anyway.

If they do start releasing their systems about halfway through the generation, years before the rest, then they can at least deal with being the most powerful for half a generation and the cheaper, but already established one for the other half, rather than being outclassed every generation and largely ignored by everyone else.

 

 

im going to stop you right now and say thats a horrible idea. you know what company kept doing that? SEGA and look at the position they are in. The PSP and PS3 didnt do so well when they first started but did Sony abandoned them? no they kept trying and in the end they didnt finish first but had a good finish never the less

[Conando]

Wonder why both are already coming close to the Wii U's lifetime sales after a mere two weeks on the market, then. I guess a million Americans flocked to the store to play Killzone and Knack on day one?

 

PCs are irrelevant to this discussion as they have always been. Until the Steambox gains traction and becomes a cheap and accessible alternative, PC power does not have any bearing on the console space.

It's called marketing. You know, the thing Nintendo does actually have a problem with and needs to get their shit together on it.

[Wraith]

The idea that power doesn't hold a steak in console merit is ridiculous. How can you expect to attract developers to your console, thus securing more games, if the develpers can do new and interesting things on fresh new hardware instead of hardware from a generation ago?

 

I used to think this wasn't completely Nintendo's fault and they'd pull through but it becomes more and more evident that they fucked up big time by the day. How do you come back from this?

[Dejimon11]

The idea that power doesn't hold a steak in console merit is ridiculous. How can you expect to attract developers to your console, thus securing more games, if the develpers can do new and interesting things on fresh new hardware instead of hardware from a generation ago?

 

I used to think this wasn't completely Nintendo's fault and they'd pull through but it becomes more and more evident that they fucked up big time by the day. How do you come back from this?

 

idk the 3DS is less powerful than a Vita and yet 3rd party developers are coming up with new and interesting things with it granted those are handhelds so i think my statement is invalid 

[Conando]

I stI still wonder how no one notices that 3rd party is no different than it was last gen. In fact, except the likes of SEGA and Atlus, the 3DS has rather poor 3rd party support too. It's on Nintendo to woo the 3rd parties, but this isn't some new problem that is daming them now.

[Solkia]

Funny that, the PS4 and Xbone use last gen hardware too. They're weaker than PCs from 2010. Just saying that power is, and always be, a dumb argument when talking console merit.

 

You're comparing PC hardware to console hardware.

 

Do you know how unresonable the cost would be if we were using the strongest PC hardware available for consoles? PS4 announced at E3! 2999 US DOllars! 2999 US Dollars! 2999 US Dollars!

 

PS4 uses tech from 2010, at a much cheaper price than what the PC equivalent parts would still cost altogether.

 

Wii U uses tech from 2007.

 

My point was that the hardware is entirely unremarkable in terms of the competition. Does that make it a bad console? No, far from it.

[Cyalume]

So if you say it's unsuccessful, then why did Sony and Microsoft copy Nintendo's gamepad idea by creating the Remote Play and Smartglass respectively? They also copied Nintendo's Wii remote and look how that developed!

Its about the value that said functionality adds to a $300 package. While its true that Sony and Microsoft are at least somewhat interested in the concept of a second screen, their implementation of that idea is done in such a way that doesn't actually suck financial resources away from the console itself.  The Wii U was made less powerful so that it could be sold at its particular price point while also including the expensive gamepad. A Playstation Vita is sold separately from a Playstation 4, and Smartglass is an entirely different thing altogether.

 

Funny that, the PS4 and Xbone use last gen hardware too. They're weaker than PCs from 2010. Just saying that power is, and always be, a dumb argument when talking console merit.

 

As for the "power holds no value because PCs are more powerful" argument, note that I said for a console. There is no denying that the Wii U is not only underpowered, but is so much so that its abilities hover around that of eight year old hardware console hardware, all for the sake of a peripheral that is, quite frankly, not very popular at all and finds little practical use in many of the titles released for the system thus far to warrant its inclusion. The PC has become its own segment entirely.

I grew up with Nintendo as well, and I love their games, but I don't love the Wii U. I just can't justify $250-300 + $60 for a week or two of Super Mario 3D World (which, if I must be honest, would be my only motivation to purchase the system) when the other available options promise a steady flow of content from a wide range of developers and a bright future to look forward to. What I'm seeing right now as far as the Wii U is concerned is anything but.

[Sami]

im going to stop you right now and say thats a horrible idea. you know what company kept doing that? SEGA and look at the position they are in. The PSP and PS3 didnt do so well when they first started but did Sony abandoned them? no they kept trying and in the end they didnt finish first but had a good finish never the less

 

The Wii U's problems run much deeper than the PS3's did, and even then, the PSP didn't even sell half what the DS did.

 

The Wii U is already being called "the next Dreamcast". It has been for months. But you know something the Dreamcast had that the Wii U still doesn't? An amazing, varied library of exclusive games that gave the system an identity of its own and cemented it as a classic in the eyes of many gamers. 

 

The Wii U can not and will not be saved. Nintendo's goal of 9 million units sold by the end of the fiscal year will not be reached, and investors will not be happy. The PS3 and PSP had problems, but they were built to be future-proof. The PS3 especially. The Wii U's problems are getting bigger and bigger as its competitors gain more sales, and its already miniscule chances of turning things around are diminishing.

 

It's time they shut up, stop apologizing and asking people to "please understand", own up to their mistake and improve. Make a kickass console next time and win back that respect.

 

It's called marketing. You know, the thing Nintendo does actually have a problem with and needs to get their shit together on it.

 

You can't be serious. You really think the only issue the Wii U has is marketing? The Wii U could have the best commercials in the world and it wouldn't "save" anything. You can't market an unappealing product. 

[Conando]

Well when the PS4 and Xbone have performance problems and no games...