Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Zaysho]

Alrighty, just read #254, so here goes... Spoiler'd for those that haven't read it yet.

 

Another solid issue in this "refreshed" universe. Antoine and Uncle Chuck are now accounted for, Muttski has been reborn as a full Mobian (I had the same reaction Sonic and Tails did), Sonic inhaled some "Mystery Gas" (maybe a proper Unleashed adaptation isn't too far off if his reaction is anything to go by?), and Eggman continues his journey to the Death Egg.

 

I kinda of like that the original Freedom Fighters are getting some shine again after so long and are becoming more active. It's especially refreshing to see Antoine take a level in badass. He's certainly grown since his olden days before his coma, but now he's almost on a level with Sonic. I'm also guessing his and Bunnie's wedding did still happen, albeit differently, they still share their bond. Kind of a shame that Uncle Chuck no longer seems to be Sonic's blood relative, but since apparently SEGA doesn't want their game characters to have relatives now, there's not much we can do about it.

 

I'll be honest, I'd love for SEGA to make a RPG using the Archie characters like this. I think it'd be a blast to play as this new version of Antoine.

 

One thing I noticed was NICOLE saying that she can probably only restore a few more memories before she can "defragment" the new world. So we know that Sally, Bunnie, and Amy are next up (filling out the main team). So it would seem, despite Sonic's bond with so many characters, not everyone will be restored. My first thought came to Knuckles, since his people are now essentially gone, it's likely he'll never remember anything such as teaming up with the Chaotix (I wouldn't be too surprised if they're no longer a Freedom Fighter group this time around), Julie-Su, his family, Chaos Knuckles (though I'm kinda grateful about that one) and his stint as Enerjak. I don't think it's a total loss, but it's kind of a shame to think that the whole history is essentially gone now. Also, thinking about this for a second: will Thrash come back? Muttski essentially "evolved" after the Super-Genesis Wave, it's likely that the Devils might have gotten "reset" too, thus eliminating his whole quest. Just a thought, anyway.

 

I also want to make a note of Terry Austin's inking this issue. Austin, I've found, has had shaky quality since he became a regular inker on the main book. Sometimes he did well, other times it looked rushed and sloppy. It really varied from artist to artist (I think Steven Butler's work suffered a bit from Austin's inking in particular--I think Bates and Peppers did fine and Yardley was kind of a crapshoot in terms of Austin's inking). But here, I thought it looked great. It doesn't have the same thick lines like Amash's inking, but it looked much more consistent and solid than before.

 

All in all, I liked this issue as far as catch-up goes. Much like Sonic and the gang, I think we're going to start settling into this new world just fine.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Alrighty, just read #254, so here goes... Spoiler'd for those that haven't read it yet.

 

Another solid issue in this "refreshed" universe. Antoine and Uncle Chuck are now accounted for, Muttski has been reborn as a full Mobian (I had the same reaction Sonic and Tails did), Sonic inhaled some "Mystery Gas" (maybe a proper Unleashed adaptation isn't too far off if his reaction is anything to go by?), and Eggman continues his journey to the Death Egg.

 

I kinda of like that the original Freedom Fighters are getting some shine again after so long and are becoming more active. It's especially refreshing to see Antoine take a level in badass. He's certainly grown since his olden days before his coma, but now he's almost on a level with Sonic. I'm also guessing his and Bunnie's wedding did still happen, albeit differently, they still share their bond. Kind of a shame that Uncle Chuck no longer seems to be Sonic's blood relative, but since apparently SEGA doesn't want their game characters to have relatives now, there's not much we can do about it.

 

I'll be honest, I'd love for SEGA to make a RPG using the Archie characters like this. I think it'd be a blast to play as this new version of Antoine.

 

One thing I noticed was NICOLE saying that she can probably only restore a few more memories before she can "defragment" the new world. So we know that Sally, Bunnie, and Amy are next up (filling out the main team). So it would seem, despite Sonic's bond with so many characters, not everyone will be restored. My first thought came to Knuckles, since his people are now essentially gone, it's likely he'll never remember anything such as teaming up with the Chaotix (I wouldn't be too surprised if they're no longer a Freedom Fighter group this time around), Julie-Su, his family, Chaos Knuckles (though I'm kinda grateful about that one) and his stint as Enerjak. I don't think it's a total loss, but it's kind of a shame to think that the whole history is essentially gone now. Also, thinking about this for a second: will Thrash come back? Muttski essentially "evolved" after the Super-Genesis Wave, it's likely that the Devils might have gotten "reset" too, thus eliminating his whole quest. Just a thought, anyway.

 

I also want to make a note of Terry Austin's inking this issue. Austin, I've found, has had shaky quality since he became a regular inker on the main book. Sometimes he did well, other times it looked rushed and sloppy. It really varied from artist to artist (I think Steven Butler's work suffered a bit from Austin's inking in particular--I think Bates and Peppers did fine and Yardley was kind of a crapshoot in terms of Austin's inking). But here, I thought it looked great. It doesn't have the same thick lines like Amash's inking, but it looked much more consistent and solid than before.

 

All in all, I liked this issue as far as catch-up goes. Much like Sonic and the gang, I think we're going to start settling into this new world just fine.

I second on the Sonic RPG with Archie characters, especialy Antonie, and the new Rotor would be extremely cool as well. specialy if it was an action rpg, like say.... well something combining actual combat with rpg item and story elements

[E-122-Psi]

If they boost Antoine up anymore they'll have practically have reversed the 'Always Someone Better' role between him and Sonic, being as humble, suave and tactful as Sonic isn't in the comics. Seriously does Antoine have ANY flaws preventing him being The Ace anymore?

Edited November 2, 2013 by E-122-Psi

[Your Vest Friend]

He seems to have his arrogance and pomp back from SatAM.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

If they boost Antoine up anymore they'll have practically have reversed the 'Always Someone Better' role between him and Sonic, being as humble, suave and tactful as Sonic isn't in the comics. Seriously does Antoine have ANY flaws preventing him being The Ace anymore?

You're right, the only slight problem he can have is a little arrogance, but being married to Bunny helps to temper that, so yeah, it is ironic to see that all the years have seen a bit of a role reversal with him and sonic, but thats not a bad thing in itself though, and sonic is still faster XD

 

 

He seems to have his arrogance and pomp back from SatAM.

I would argue that its not entirely the same since he now has the actual fortitude to back it, where as back in the day it was a way he compsenated for his timidity

Edited November 2, 2013 by Mandobardanjusik

[Jet Prower]

I'm just still surprised that Antoine can now do the spin dash as well. What, are they making it so that everyone can use the move now if they are in this universe? First we were talking if Big could do it or not, and now Antoine can do it now. Wow.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

I'm just still surprised that Antoine can now do the spin dash as well. What, are they making it so that everyone can use the move now if they are in this universe? First we were talking if Big could do it or not, and now Antoine can do it now. Wow.

A point I have seen been made, that I agree with, is that they arent pure spindashes, but some variant attacks, with characters having different styles of spin attack, Antonie's being a variant upon an attack from sonic black knight, and well Big's is what I would call a stumble roll, as it required a LOT of momentum to get moving, as in falling from a cliff. So some of the freedom fighters turning up with their own spin attacks, I'm down for that

Edited November 2, 2013 by Mandobardanjusik

[Jet Prower]

A point I have seen been made, that I agree with, is that they arent pure spindashes, but some variant attacks, with characters having different styles of spin attack, Antonie's being a variant upon an attack from sonic black knight, and well Big's is what I would call a stumble roll, as it required a LOT of momentum to get moving, as in falling from a cliff. So some of the freedom fighters turning up with their own spin attacks, I'm down for that

 

They must all be pretty limber if they can do these ball attacks. I'm sure that can't be easy to curl up into a ball like that. I guess it makes more since for someone like Sonic or Mighty to be able to do spin attacks since they are animals that naturally can curl up like that, but Antoine is a Coyote after all ^^; I still like your explanation of course, just seems a bit silly for him to be able to do it. I'd like to see the coyote that can do that XD

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

They must all be pretty limber if they can do these ball attacks. I'm sure that can't be easy to curl up into a ball like that. I guess it makes more since for someone like Sonic or Mighty to be able to do spin attacks since they are animals that naturally can curl up like that, but Antoine is a Coyote after all ^^; I still like your explanation of course, just seems a bit silly for him to be able to do it. I'd like to see the coyote that can do that XD

Actualy his move doesnt require a full curl, just a forward tuck, also if you want wierd classic examples, look at classic Vector's Donut roll

[E-122-Psi]

You're right, the only slight problem he can have is a little arrogance, but being married to Bunny helps to temper that, so yeah, it is ironic to see that all the years have seen a bit of a role reversal with him and sonic, but thats not a bad thing in itself though, and sonic is still faster XD

 

 

I would argue that its not entirely the same since he now has the actual fortitude to back it, where as back in the day it was a way he compsenated for his timidity

At the very least he manages to contain it enough to avoid constant Idiot/Jerkass Ball moments like it does with Sonic. In fact I don't think I remember the last time Antoine did something that caused a hindrance (or any of the main team outside Sonic and Sally at a stretch come to think of it).

Edited November 2, 2013 by E-122-Psi

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

At the very least he manages to contain it enough to avoid constant Idiot/Jerkass Ball moments like it does with Sonic. In fact I don't think I remember the last time Antoine did something that hurt a mission (or anyone outside Sonic and Sally at a stretch come to think of it).

His cowardice was always his main weakness, but now that he's finaly managed to face it, yeah he's a soldier, or rather a better description would be well a military adventurer like back in the crusaders, someone with military style composure, but also a love for adventure, and that is something he and sonic have in common, the adventure part I mean, but on the other hand he does have disicpline which makes him a good foil to sonic in a number of ways

[InfinityAlex]

On the spin attack point, it only requires one to curl into a tuck jump shape. Many humans can easily do it, so limber anthros? Why not?

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

On the spin attack point, it only requires one to curl into a tuck jump shape. Many humans can easily do it, so limber anthros? Why not?

I second this, all it means that Ant has extremely strong Legs in order to power that attack

[E-122-Psi]

His cowardice was always his main weakness, but now that he's finaly managed to face it, yeah he's a soldier, or rather a better description would be well a military adventurer like back in the crusaders, someone with military style composure, but also a love for adventure, and that is something he and sonic have in common, the adventure part I mean, but on the other hand he does have disicpline which makes him a good foil to sonic in a number of ways

Maybe, it makes him a bit boring at times though. While I get not wanting him to be a straw loser with no redeeming aspects like in Satam, a character with no crippling shortcomings is kinda flat. I feel that's why few latched onto Bunnie or Rotor like the other Freedom Fighters, there's no 'quirks' or defects you instantly connect to them, they're just reliable but unexceptional buddies.

Edited November 2, 2013 by E-122-Psi

[InfinityAlex]

Well, Bunnie has her fair share of disadvantages. She's vunerable to technomagic and she felt extremely weak and insecure when deroboticized by Naugus. She can also find herself in a morally difficult situation, meaning she doesn't think things through to clearly. (See the "Thicker than Water" arc)

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Well, Bunnie has her fair share of disadvantages. She's vunerable to technomagic and she felt extremely weak and insecure when deroboticized by Naugus. She can also find herself in a morally difficult situation, meaning she doesn't think things through to clearly. (See the "Thicker than Water" arc)

Thats definately true, and with Antonie now adays, he's a little arogant, and perhaps a little too brave, there is a reason he was in a coma, hes a guy you want on his side, but is also now the guy who is extremely likely to stand and fight when he should be running somewhat, but honestly we will have to wait and see how it plays out, though I think we could end up with him and bunnie balancing out, specialy with him having a strict moral code, while her's is weaker, she is slightly better at taking a tactical view of a situation

 

Also for some reason he's becoming one of my favorite characters

[E-122-Psi]

Well, Bunnie has her fair share of disadvantages. She's vunerable to technomagic and she felt extremely weak and insecure when deroboticized by Naugus. She can also find herself in a morally difficult situation, meaning she doesn't think things through to clearly. (See the "Thicker than Water" arc)

The problem is, a lot of these are more circumstances than pivoted by heavily developed flaws. Getting easily pressured isn't that distinct, nor is having hidden insecurities. Lots of characters have them and they aren't identical to her.

 

This is what I meant by Ian not being good at writing flawed characters, he can't really develop a character's shortcomings into a pivotal element that makes many of their actions and mannerisms. Flaws aren't just there for the odd quip or a token screw up to show your character isn't a Mary Sue, they branch off into several different sub traits that make almost their entire personality, in some cases even their positive aspects are grounded by them.

 

Sonic's egotism and recklessness are the only exception, and even then he tends to overuse tons of Compressed Vices for him that make his personality feel kinda inconsistent (sometimes he turns into the complete opposite of his personality and becomes a neurotic control freak).

Edited November 2, 2013 by E-122-Psi

[Sega DogTagz]

I latched onto Bunnie pretty hard. I thought that right from the start, she was given enough vulnerabilities to pierce through that tank-ish facade. Even while she was the lone Freedom Fighter that could hit on par with Sonic, we were still constantly reminded of her insecurities about wanting to be flesh and blood. We were still pained to watch her make decisions to give up the dream of returning to her previous state. We were still opted to see her struggles with love and family, all hindered by her alliance to her friends and her yearning to do what she thought was right by them - only to have the consequences of such choices fall back onto her down the line.

 

Bunnie's insecurity over wanting to be their for her friends branched out into her choice to remain a cyborg, it branched out to her willingness to compromise for the greater good despite the wishes of long lost family, it branched out to her sense of weakness when she was unable to be a heavy hitter minus the robotics and it branched out to fuel her eventual defection to get the cyborg parts she never wanted back.

 

I'm pretty sure Ian deserves the credit for a lot of that. Bunnie is a fairly well rounded character when you step back and look at her as a whole. Its not prefect by any means, but there is a lot there.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Sega DogTagz

[E-122-Psi]

It may just be my preference for more vibrant and eccentric characters, given I mainly prefer comedic works, but I don't really see a lot of personality to Bunnie, more just angst brought on by things that happen to her. I don't see many everymen acting differently from her if they had the same crap forced on them. I just don't think Ian is good at making his characters do much outside react and their contributions often seem kinda generic and lacking in proper personality or basic motivations in life, even when he tries for a 'Not So Above It All' moment he fails to make it bring out any defining character (eg. almost all of his attempts to make Sally look 'flawed' involve her acting reckless or making a cocky oversight, which is pretty much the exact opposite of her character approach. That's not making her own personality flawed as much as it is just temporarily breaking her character).

Edited November 2, 2013 by E-122-Psi

[Mogtaki]

Speaking of cyborgs, I wonder what they're going to do about Monkey Khan.

[Marcello]

Just read 254.

My God, Muttski O.O

[Ducktor Naldush]

Yeah...Muttski. Didn't see that one coming, for sure. Loving the Black Knight-gameplay-inspired Antoine, though. His French accent is still silly, by the way.

[Jet Prower]

I was surprised as well of course over the muttski fact. I think most people were and the reaction the boys give being how most people probably felt finding out who that was. Why they had to do that, is still a bit strange, but I guess it makes using the character easier. There are already so few normal animals in the world anymore.

[Marcello]

I honestly thought he just ceased to exist and that they'd just use the reboot to act like he never existed.

 

Edit: Actually, he semi-recently appeared in issue 235, didn't he..

Edited November 2, 2013 by MarcelloF

[Zaysho]

I was surprised as well of course over the muttski fact. I think most people were and the reaction the boys give being how most people probably felt finding out who that was. Why they had to do that, is still a bit strange, but I guess it makes using the character easier. There are already so few normal animals in the world anymore.

 

I think if there are going to be any normal animals at this point, they'll likely be the same kinds rescued in the games. This "refreshed" world is basically a mash-up of the Genesis world with some influences of "Another Time and Place." Mobius, as we knew it (and the name, too!) is gone. It was always a little strange seeing Muttski when there were anthropomorphic dogs running around too (kinda like Goofy and Pluto, come to think of it). At least we got an explanation for the Tasmanian Devils and how they ended up like that.