Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[TheEzekiel300]

For the past week, the overall fan base has been split down the middle about Sally's new redesign/rough concept draft redesign that was unveiled a little over a week ago at the New York comic con.

Many fans have expressed their like and dislike for the new design. 50% feel that it's about time she had a change. While the other 50% feels that the change/redesign is unnecessary and betrays who the character is.

50% of the fans are in agreement with Ian Flynn, when he said that the characters need to mesh with the current look of the Sonic franchise. The other 50% feels that the reason the redesign occurred is because of two reasons, one being the "soccer parents" (which Ian has denied had no influence in the decision for the change) and/or the Sega Corporation and their mandates.

However, despite the differences in the overall fan base, one question does seem to be asked from both sides. A question that makes a possible majority of the fan base wonder one thing. And that one thing is : Is/was this current Sonic story arc nothing more then an excuse to finally get Sally fully clothed?

The reason the fan base (at least the majority of it) asked this question, is because they want to know if this is what this entire story arc has been leading up to. They want to know that if the nearly a year and the current/October issues of both the main Sonic comic and the spinoff Sonic Universe comic, which for this month are looked at as nothing more then promotional advertisements/tie-ins for the Summer Olympic Games which already took place this past late July/early to mid August, as well as for the Mario and Sonic London Olympics videogame tie-in as well as the upcoming Sonic and Sega All-Stars Transformed racing game which is due out next month, that if their interruptions of this story arc with the exception of the back story for issue 242 of the main comic as well as the upcoming summer crossover which will be spread across the Sonic Universe comic, the main Sonic comic, and the Mega-Man comic, they want to know that with all that if the redesign is the reason for this long drawnout story arc.

Believe it or not, many fans believe that to be the case. And the reason being, is because some of them feel that if Ian, Archie and Sega wanted to give Sally a redesign, they could've easily done it in a short back story or a short front story in the main comic. As one fan said and I will use this as an example, Ian could have easily wrote a short story where Sally went with either Amy or Bunnie to go shop for clothes, have either girl tease Sally about her wearing the same outfit and being a Tomboy, show her said outfit that was revealed at the New York comic con, have it either one of them say she would never think about wearing something like this, only to have Sally prove them wrong by purchasing and wearing said outfit and deciding that maybe this is a good look for her to go with from now on. Now that's not exactly how this one fan put it, but if they read this, they will understand that it was close enough.

The point that the fan base that questions if this story arc was nothing more than an excuse to give Sally a new look, the point their trying to make and get a cross to others out there, is that this whole story arc could have been done, but not at the expense of doing what Ian did to Sally just to give her a redesign at the end.

Now my personal feelings on this, is if that is the case, then I do agree that it could have been done with a short story. However I am willing to give Ian the benefit of the doubt and as he said in the additions that he added to his DA Journal, I am going to take what he says for right now at face value. Because in all honesty, why go through all this, with the possibility that the upcoming summer crossover may have something to do with the story arc, due to the fact that the rumor going around is that it will/may involve the missing blue chaos emerald, why go through all that just to have the climax being Sally getting a redesign. To me it doesn't make sense.

The reason being that it doesn't make sense, is that one of the things he added when he made some additions to his DA Journal, he said that the redesign when it's finalized after a possible tweak here and there in the design, does it say how, when and at "what cost" Sally will be restored at. No it doesn't. And what caught my eye, was the at "what cost"part. Which got me thinking what if, what if he takes a page out of let's say the third and final season of Mighty Morphin Power Rangers, the page I'm talking about is when they did the Alien Ranger story arc and had the Power Rangers themselves reduced/deaged to kids, but with their teenage personalities and memories intact. It got me wondering, if perhaps the "what cost" of Sally's return, that perhaps it could be that thanks to possibly the power of the chaos emeralds, if not the blue chaos Emerald that time reverses, with the exception that Sonic and his friends along with Sally regain their teenage personalities and memories, thus explaining perhaps the redesign for Sally and maybe some other characters.

You may read that, and say that's far-fetched even for Ian Flynn, but you got of think of it this way, this story arc is supposed to be Ian Flynn's masterpiece, the story arc that defines his time writing for Archie comics, so I wouldn't put it past Ian to do something of that sort or magnitude, nor should you.

As far as who is to blame for the decision for the redesign of Sally and possibly other characters in the comics, as mentioned before, Ian Flynn pretty much debunked the whole soccer parents theory, even though there are some that still feel they had a role in it, and that Ian is covering his tracks and their's, by saying they didn't have any involvement. Which if true leads to the second option.

That being of course, the Sega Corporation. And why Sega? Because at the end of the day, whether we like it or not, they do have the final say or at least one of the final says when it comes to the comic and the characters involved, whether those characters are game characters on nongame characters, they will at least have some of the final say in what takes place. And if they are the ones truly responsible for the change in Sally's design as well as possibly other future characters, then there is very little we can say about it.

Now don't get me wrong, apparently from what Ian said, Archie comics does at least listen to fan input and criticism, and from what he said recently in the additions to his journal, let's just say that rough concept teaser of Sally's new redesign, may or may not be the final draft/concept design for her going into 2013. Which means they may add some additional details to her final design.

When it comes to this current story arc, from the summaries and video reviews and typed reviews I have read and seen, I can say this. Some like to say, that Ian Flynn is trying to make this current story arc into another version of his web comic Other – M. Which if was/is the case, from what some have described seeing as this story arc has progressed, perhaps may have a point. But giving Ian Flynn the benefit of the doubt, what I see in my honest opinion, is someone that had to get an epic story off their chest. And in my honest opinion, perhaps he wanted to do something in the style of his web comic, which he did kind of achieve with the Silver story arc. But wanted to do more so in the main comic. Thus is the reason for the "Mecha-Sally/World Tour II/Death Egg MK II" story arc that is currently being released, written and by fans standards read and criticized/enjoyed, because Ian, (in my humble opinion) had to get an/this epic story off his chest, out of his mind, checked off his list and by the start and in the middle of next year, hopefully done and over with.

That, my fellow Sonic fans, in my humble/honest opinion is the reason why this story arc was started and is currently going today, because I feel, giving him the benefit of the doubt, he just had to get this story arc out of the way, whether we like it or not.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, I know it was long, but hey would you rather read this or watch a 22 min. plus video on YouTube where I talked about the same thing, I think the choice is easy to make, don't you?

God Bless

Tuesday, October 23, 2012

time : 12:18 PM Pacific.

Bwrosas, I know you don't hate Ian. I am not saying that, but I am convinced that you are biased against him. I don't hate Ken Penders but I can't stand his writing, his writing definitely earned my hate. The only thing I liked from Ken was making Antione brave and that's it. You claim your in the middle, but where is the fruit of that? Your a pretty intetresting unique person, but I just don't agree with how your handling this. Your in the middle, but you joined the anti Archie club on deviant art? If you were in the the middle, you would have just disagreed with Sally thing and criticize that, but you join the Anti Archie club. I just don't see that as being in the middle. You say you would see how it plays out, but you already made up your mind through your actions. You keep getting people that have negative things to say about the comic and hardly any people who have something good to say. If you were in the middle, wouldn't it make more sence to read 2 different people's opinion and view on the comic, right after each other one positive, one negative? Or maybe just joined the mixed Archie fan club? When I hear Dan Drazen review, it comes off as extremely nit picking to me. I have nothing against reviewing of the comic but I believe you shouldn't go too deep with a kids comic book. When it comes to Sonic I see the story as deep, great action and good characterization. The comic should be deep not too deep in my opinion. Whenever you read about someone who has something negative to say about the comic, it's like you get really happy and excited, bwrosas. Like when you made that video after you found out sally was robotisized, you asked who was the worse writer ever and the under tones of the way you asked that was clearly there. Your undertones said that you believed Ian was.-This is not in the middle too me.

I wonder what specific things did you say in 2006 that made Ian and staff mad? When I looked over on what they were saying back in 2006 and even a few years later. It looks like they gave you a bunch of chances, but you kept testing them is this true? What specific things were you asking? Well, my take on it is that you love the Nostalgia so much back then with SatAM that you just accepted the Sonic comic as really good comic no matter what no matter how bad Ken Pender's writing got and that you couldn't accept Ian taking over so you nit picked him. It's like you ignored the fact that Ian had to clean up a lot of stuff that Ken left behind, and you fuss about side characters like Fiona Fox character that Ian has written for and say you didn't like how she was done, but the thing is the whole Fiona story was stupid from the beginning when Ken wrote the love triangle with Sonic and Tails. Sonic making out with Fiona in front of Tails and Tails screaming "I hate you!" with ugly art work. If you have a stupid story from the beginning isn't it likely you would have a stupid ending when the new writer comes in and it's not his fault? You claim Ian is too predictable, yet you were the one that said all kinds of different theory's of Sally's fate when 225 came out and when 230 came out. You said Nicole probably sacrificed herself for Sally. You said "maybe Sally merged with Nicole?" You even said you were "ok with Sally dying."-How is this predicable to you when you said all these different things? It's not adding up to me. The legacy of Ken Penders still lingers on even if you say he does not write anymore. All those love triangles was too predictable if you ask me and yet you excuse ken. You bring up the Phoenix saga and how Sally is like Jean Grey, and yet Ken ripped off X men all the time. You know issue 237 could have been more interesting if Ken hadn't been trying to sue for Hershey the cat. She was going to play a role in that issue that was going to be the heart of it. Your up set about Bunnie leaving because she wants to find away to help Antoine and your up set that Antoine risked his life for the true king. It's called conflict it helps develop the characters. It's not that bad.

You say Ian stories could be better in has the potential to be a great writer. With me, he already arived. You and the purist claim the stories aren't that good ant that all this was about Sally getting a new out fit. I strongly disagrees. When I read issue 200 of Eggmans break down, then the Iron queen, and the lead up to the countdown to his epic return. I was on the edge of my seat, in issue 224 during the clock countdown and wondering got planned and it made sense to me. Robotsizing is an element on what robotnik does it's who he is and the whole chaos is the "constant with Sonic" that Eggman has been saying. Sonic learning about his "one bad day"-Scourge told him about and over coming it, that is the main focus not Sally's new out fit, that's just the sub plot. you keep asking why did Ian do what he did with Sally. To me it's simple, he is trying to make people like her after her character and relationship with Sonic was destroyed by the previous writers. Ian does a good job of balancing the attention SatAM cast get's and the sega cast gets. He' not perfect but he honor's Sonic's name. I just hope you and the SatAM purist go a little easier on him.

[bwrosas]

Bwrosas, I know you don't hate Ian. I am not saying that, but I am convinced that you are biased against him. I don't hate Ken Penders but I can't stand his writing, his writing definitely earned my hate. The only thing I liked from Ken was making Antione brave and that's it. You claim your in the middle, but where is the fruit of that? Your a pretty intetresting unique person, but I just don't agree with how your handling this. Your in the middle, but you joined the anti Archie club on deviant art? If you were in the the middle, you would have just disagreed with Sally thing and criticize that, but you join the Anti Archie club. I just don't see that as being in the middle. You say you would see how it plays out, but you already made up your mind through your actions. You keep getting people that have negative things to say about the comic and hardly any people who have something good to say. If you were in the middle, wouldn't it make more sence to read 2 different people's opinion and view on the comic, right after each other one positive, one negative? Or maybe just joined the mixed Archie fan club? When I hear Dan Drazen review, it comes off as extremely nit picking to me. I have nothing against reviewing of the comic but I believe you shouldn't go too deep with a kids comic book. When it comes to Sonic I see the story as deep, great action and good characterization. The comic should be deep not too deep in my opinion. Whenever you read about someone who has something negative to say about the comic, it's like you get really happy and excited, bwrosas. Like when you made that video after you found out sally was robotisized, you asked who was the worse writer ever and the under tones of the way you asked that was clearly there. Your undertones said that you believed Ian was.-This is not in the middle too me.

I wonder what specific things did you say in 2006 that made Ian and staff mad? When I looked over on what they were saying back in 2006 and even a few years later. It looks like they gave you a bunch of chances, but you kept testing them is this true? What specific things were you asking? Well, my take on it is that you love the Nostalgia so much back then with SatAM that you just accepted the Sonic comic as really good comic no matter what no matter how bad Ken Pender's writing got and that you couldn't accept Ian taking over so you nit picked him. It's like you ignored the fact that Ian had to clean up a lot of stuff that Ken left behind, and you fuss about side characters like Fiona Fox character that Ian has written for and say you didn't like how she was done, but the thing is the whole Fiona story was stupid from the beginning when Ken wrote the love triangle with Sonic and Tails. Sonic making out with Fiona in front of Tails and Tails screaming "I hate you!" with ugly art work. If you have a stupid story from the beginning isn't it likely you would have a stupid ending when the new writer comes in and it's not his fault? You claim Ian is too predictable, yet you were the one that said all kinds of different theory's of Sally's fate when 225 came out and when 230 came out. You said Nicole probably sacrificed herself for Sally. You said "maybe Sally merged with Nicole?" You even said you were "ok with Sally dying."-How is this predicable to you when you said all these different things? It's not adding up to me. The legacy of Ken Penders still lingers on even if you say he does not write anymore. All those love triangles was too predictable if you ask me and yet you excuse ken. You bring up the Phoenix saga and how Sally is like Jean Grey, and yet Ken ripped off X men all the time. You know issue 237 could have been more interesting if Ken hadn't been trying to sue for Hershey the cat. She was going to play a role in that issue that was going to be the heart of it. Your up set about Bunnie leaving because she wants to find away to help Antoine and your up set that Antoine risked his life for the true king. It's called conflict it helps develop the characters. It's not that bad.

You say Ian stories could be better in has the potential to be a great writer. With me, he already arived. You and the purist claim the stories aren't that good ant that all this was about Sally getting a new out fit. I strongly disagrees. When I read issue 200 of Eggmans break down, then the Iron queen, and the lead up to the countdown to his epic return. I was on the edge of my seat, in issue 224 during the clock countdown and wondering got planned and it made sense to me. Robotsizing is an element on what robotnik does it's who he is and the whole chaos is the "constant with Sonic" that Eggman has been saying. Sonic learning about his "one bad day"-Scourge told him about and over coming it, that is the main focus not Sally's new out fit, that's just the sub plot. you keep asking why did Ian do what he did with Sally. To me it's simple, he is trying to make people like her after her character and relationship with Sonic was destroyed by the previous writers. Ian does a good job of balancing the attention SatAM cast get's and the sega cast gets. He' not perfect but he honor's Sonic's name. I just hope you and the SatAM purist go a little easier on him.

Look, you probably right in what you say, and that's your right, but I'm just doing (my best) unbiased look at things that's all.

[Aquaslash]

Look, you probably right in what you say, and that's your right, but I'm just doing (my best) unbiased look at things that's all.

You're about as unbiased as Fox News.

[bwrosas]

You're about as unbiased as Fox News.

very funny

[Toby]

Funny AND true.

[Your Vest Friend]

Welp, if this little soundbite I found about Lara-Su is true, then she's even more of a stupidly overpowered character in my books;

I like how Lara-Su's bio reads out like a Mary Sue fancharacter (she was trained in ninjitsu from Espio, how to fly by Charmy, how to fight from Vector and Mighty...)

[Komodin]

Welp, if this little soundbite I found about Lara-Su is true, then she's even more of a stupidly overpowered character in my books;

Wait, this is a description of the Lara-Su from the future where Shadow's essentially a dictator?

[Your Vest Friend]

Wait, this is a description of the Lara-Su from the future where Shadow's essentially a dictator?

It has to be since there's no mention of the Jani-Ca nickname which is exclusive to the Dark Mobius reality.

[Sega DogTagz]

Welp, if this little soundbite I found about Lara-Su is true, then she's even more of a stupidly overpowered character in my books;

Yes, thats the future Lara-Su's M.O. She's the daughter of the Guardian. She was essentially raised by the best Knuckles had to offer in each field.

Thanks to that, she has the flat out potential to be supremely savvy and powerful (see a fully realized Jani-Ca) but for the moment her youth and uneasiness about carrying the mantle do hold her back a fair bit.

Edited November 2, 2012 by The Arcane Arceus

[Soniman]

Well that's a shame because I like Lara-Su

[Nattala]

...Wait, Lara-Su can FLY?! How? I mean I know echidnas can glide but I would think that would have very different mechanics to flying. I mean what's she do, flap her dreadlocks or something?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

...Wait, Lara-Su can FLY?! How? I mean I know echidnas can glide but I would think that would have very different mechanics to flying. I mean what's she do, flap her dreadlocks or something?

In the Archie Universe, Echidnas, specifically the Guardians, are supposedly capable of flight. At least that's what I think going by what I know.

Also, just because someone was trained by multiple characters in different specialties does not make a character a Mary Sue. You guys are seriously devaluing the term more than it already is.

[Sonictrainer]

Is the Encyclopedia in stores yet?

[turbojet]

I think Sally's Marvel equivalent would be Jean Grey, dude. Character killed, but later brought back via writer's throw? A favorite of the writer.

And besides, I've never been one to believe that killing a character would make the story better by default because that's a huge leap in logic to make when it comes to creative writing. Peter Parker's death was probably a gamble for them to write and keep dead since there would be obvious backlash from the reader base...was there? (not that I've been keeping up with the Marvel Ultimate universe and the responses)

Jean Grey along with most of the original X-Men are dead and have stayed dead as well for 6 years in Ultimate. Initially, killing Peter was met with backlash and replacing him with Miles was met with even more backlash. Through pure good writing and overall handling of the death made Miles a breakout star. I was referencing that keeping a character around because of a stupid notion that they are too loved or too important to the story is stupid. As long as you have good writing and can feasibly pull the death off without it being too severe(read Ultamatum), then it doesn't matter who dies.

The idea of anything being better because of character death is subjective as all hell. Also why Ultimate Spiderman as an example? This is Sonic the Hedgehog. Like I'm supposed to care about Ultimate Spiderman in relation to this?

That wasn't my point.

I think he means the death of one character isn't going to be the end of the book.

This was my point.

[Metaru Sonikku]

My Archie counterpart is a pushover. Can't take a hit, and is always killed at the end of the comic.

[Toby]

Isn't that special.

[Anti Alias]

so, where I can find that epic "game sonic" in olympics issue?

[Sonictrainer]

My Archie counterpart is a pushover. Can't take a hit, and is always killed at the end of the comic.

In the past, Shade almost killed both Sonic and Tails.

[Your Vest Friend]

Is the Encyclopedia in stores yet?

Eh, going by the release date given (October 30th), it should be. On the other hand, I think the Archie comic headquarters are in New York, so I dunno what effect that's had, if any.

Edited November 2, 2012 by VEDJ-F

[Sega DogTagz]

In the Archie Universe, Echidnas, specifically the Guardians, are supposedly capable of flight. At least that's what I think going by what I know.

Yep yep. Su and the rest of the guardian cast are capable of flight due to their link with the Chaos Force. By channeling it properly, they can augment their natural gliding abilities into full blown flight. Knux used to do it all the time, before his powers got sapped. Flight is actually still listed under his abilities tree in the encyclopedia.

Eh, going by the release date given (October 30th), it should be. On the other hand, I think the Archie comic headquarters are in New York, so I dunno what effect that's had, if any.

I ordered mine from Archie and got a week or two ago. If they are open for business following the storm, then I can confirm that the encyclopedia is now up for sale.

Its a great buy for the record. A real treat for fans of the comic. Soooooo much content.

Edited November 2, 2012 by The Arcane Arceus

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Jean Grey along with most of the original X-Men are dead and have stayed dead as well for 6 years in Ultimate. Initially, killing Peter was met with backlash and replacing him with Miles was met with even more backlash. Through pure good writing and overall handling of the death made Miles a breakout star. I was referencing that keeping a character around because of a stupid notion that they are too loved or too important to the story is stupid. As long as you have good writing and can feasibly pull the death off without it being too severe(read Ultamatum), then it doesn't matter who dies.

Yeah, that's status quo for ya.

But still, I wouldn't underestimate a character's fandom. Okay, granted, catering to them isn't exactly ideal either considering how stupid such a fandom can be, and I don't think it matters who dies either so long as you can pull it off. But it goes without saying it's much harder to write the death of a character when you feel they hold a large degree of attachment whether the writer is a major fan of this character (obviously), whether the writer still sees too much value in this character to kill them off, or simply because the higher ups or majority vote on such a concept wouldn't allow it, among whatever other reason there is that could keep that from happening. Yeah, that's not an excuse, but while a series can still be good despite a major character's death, you can't act like such a thing is that indifferent when it's a MAJOR thing to happen. Sure, these people can move on at some point, but doing this is crossing a major line, let's not forget that.

[Alice Twilight]

Just wondering, when I was a little girl living in the UK.

They only sold Sonic the comic, do they suddenly now start selling archie over there?

Here in Australia they're like 2 issues behind, sucks.

[Syntax Speedway]

Just wondering, when I was a little girl living in the UK.

They only sold Sonic the comic, do they suddenly now start selling archie over there?

Here in Australia they're like 2 issues behind, sucks.

That depends on where you are getting the comics from. I was a few weeks behind when I used to get mine from the newsagents, but I eventually discovered my local comic shop was getting them on time.

So if your town/city has a comic shop I would recommend checking if they get the sonic comics, as they have a much higher chance of being on time.

Edited November 3, 2012 by lbyrd2

[Your Vest Friend]

Just wondering, when I was a little girl living in the UK.

They only sold Sonic the comic, do they suddenly now start selling archie over there?

Not really, no. About the only place that sells it here is Forbidden Planet, and they already import comics over from America in general. You can't get it from a common newsagents like you could with StC.

In other places in Europe, a very small handful of issues have been reissued exclusively for those countries. Adamis and Marcello would likely vouch for this.

[Alice Twilight]

That depends on where you are getting the comics from. I was a few weeks behind when I used to get mine from the newsagents, but I eventually discovered my local comic shop was getting them on time.

So if your town/city has a comic shop I would recommend checking if they get the sonic comics, as they have a much higher chance of being on time.

I see, I have a local shopping centre with a newsagents, that where I found out they sold them.

Maybe I should ask if they get these in up to date every month, the issue I picked up could've been an old issue they forgot to take off the shelves but I dunno.

Should maybe ask if they're interested in getting Mega man and Sonic Universe.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Purple Heart Neptune