Megathread Sonic Origins | MT | General Discussion

[McGroose]

6 minutes ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

Knuckles is not in Sonic CD, this was confirmed, but he'll be in 1-3K. 

This is such a stupid wasted opportunity if true. Where was this confirmed? 

[DaBigJ]

1 hour ago, McGroose said:

This is such a stupid wasted opportunity if true. Where was this confirmed? 

In a Famitsu article

https://www.famitsu.com/news/202204/20258988.html

Quote

In "Anniversary Mode", you can select and play a character from "Sonic", "Tails", and "Knuckles".

　* "Knuckles" can be selected from "Sonic the Hedgehog", "Sonic the Hedgehog 2", and "Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles".

Major disappointment, but what can you so?

 

Unrelated, but Sonic CD's cutscenes were upscaled and remastered.

 

[Detective Kaito]

Knuckles has already been modded into the PC version of Sonic CD, so we have that I guess.

[DaBigJ]

We can't have Knuckles in CD! That'd be fun, and we need to keep CD as the weakest Sonic game ever for accuracy points!!

[Legendary Emerald]

1 hour ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

We can't have Knuckles in CD! That'd be fun, and we need to keep CD as the weakest Sonic game ever for accuracy points!!

Are you just trying to get a rise out of someone? Sonic CD is far from the weakest Sonic game “ever.” It’s not even in the running for the weakest of the classic games, at least not when you consider that Sonic Spinball, Knuckles Chaotix, Sonic 3D Blast, and the myriad Master System & Game Gear titles all exist in various states of quality.

[McGroose]

The millisecond that Origins is released on PC, Knuckles in CD will be a downloadable mod. 

[Red]

Sonic 2 and 3K have multiplayer modes. Is there a chance we will finally get online multiplayer finally? 

[Detective Kaito]

1 hour ago, McGroose said:

The millisecond that Origins is released on PC, Knuckles in CD will be a downloadable mod. 

Just a shame that the console players won't get to have it.

[Dr. Detective]

You know, I was so mad about the stupid chart that I forgot to give Ian Flynn his props for also working on Origins. Words cannot express how happy and proud I am of my man for finally ascending to where I've always wanted him to be.

Who knows what the future holds but right now, it feels great seeing them rely more on people who know and love this series to bits. 

[light-gaia]

18 hours ago, Salamander said:

I think that's reasonable.  If we're talking about a laser-focussed classic collection, S1/CD/2/3K plus only Chaotix, or only Spinball, doesn't really make sense.  It'd have to have either both, framed as weird extras; or be casting a much wider net and including many more games.  Either would probably fall outside the scope of what this collection is doing, remastering the classics to feature widescreen and other extras.  I think that Chaotix and Spinball and all the other pre-Advance handheld games should be made legally available, but I can well understand Sega not seeing the economic sense in putting as much money into them.

But then when do you push Chaotix and Spinball and the Master System and Game Gear games?  How are you going to sell these as part of a collection without big hitters like the classic-classics also featuring?  My guess now would be that you don't; the way the gaming landscape is leaning at the moment, you put them on a subscription service instead.

They could add the original emulated versions of these games as unlockable. Like they did in SADX.

[DaBigJ]

6 hours ago, Legendary Emerald said:

Are you just trying to get a rise out of someone? Sonic CD is far from the weakest Sonic game “ever.” It’s not even in the running for the weakest of the classic games, at least not when you consider that Sonic Spinball, Knuckles Chaotix, Sonic 3D Blast, and the myriad Master System & Game Gear titles all exist in various states of quality.

It was a joke chill...

[Salamander]

2 hours ago, light-gaia said:

They could add the original emulated versions of these games as unlockable. Like they did in SADX.

Sure, they could.  But not twenty-four hours after I suggested it, Sonic Spinball showed up on Nintendo Switch Online, so it looks like that's the way the wind is blowing.

[Marcello]

Kyle Bosman video on the chart:

 

[Spooky Mulder]

Do we know whether the Sonic 3 soundtrack is intact or not?

[TheOcelot]

Aside from a few omissions; Knuckles not playable in CD and coins replacing extra lives in 16:9 Anniversary Mode without the option to play with extra lives in 16:9 (as far as we are aware), I'm really excited for Origins. For me this is going to be the definitive official way to play S1, 2, CD & 3K thanks to 16:9 and all the tweaks Stealth & Taxman made and extras they added to the mobile remasters back in 2011/2013 (and whatever extras are being added to these versions in Origins). With this collection there's no reason for me to ever play the original versions of these games or emulated versions again. The fact that Origins is also using the Retro Engine version for 4:3 Classic Mode (and whatever engine Stealth is using for this new version of 3K) is a big big win. The 4:3 versions in Origins (which are not emulations) should also have all the same features as the 16:9 versions (Knuckles in S1 & 2, Hidden Palace in S2 etc). Not that I'll play Classic Mode much, but it's still nice to have all these extra features which makes playing these 28 - 30 year old games in 4:3 much more fun. As for future releases of the classic games (because you know they'll continue to rerelease them until the end of time ) this new collection is the new standard I expect from SEGA going forward.

I'm curious to see to what surprises Team Stealth has in store for use with this new version of 3K. I hope Stealth was able to convince SEGA to allow them to add Big Arm boss to Sonic & Tails story in 3K (instead of it only appearing in Knuckles story).

Aside from the new missions (the Knuckles in Death Egg "hard" mission looks fun) I wonder if they'll add some new routes to the 3K zones like Stealth & Taxman did in the S1&2 mobile remasters (not that 3K needs new routes as the zones are already massive with lots of alternative routes)?

I think they'll keep Sonic 3's multiplayer mode true to the original version. Would be so cool if they were to make the multiplayer zones into full-size single-acts which Stealth mentioned in a blog post  they were considering when they pitched the 3K remaster back in 2014:

Quote

We’re also very interested in the possibility of expanding the two-player mode zones into full-sized, fully-featured, single-act zones.

 #PleaseMakeThisHappen

As for 3K's music:

On 4/23/2022 at 3:17 AM, Spooky Mulder said:

Do we know whether the Sonic 3 soundtrack is intact or not?

No word as yet. I'd imagine they'll reveal whether the original or beta music (or both) is included closer to release.

[Mangoaxe5]

That's nice, but I'd rather have a Dreamcast compilation. Why does Sega refuse to rerelease the Adventure games?

[Sonicka]

1 hour ago, Vampfox said:

That's nice, but I'd rather have a Dreamcast compilation. Why does Sega refuse to rerelease the Adventure games?

I know what you mean.

In fairness, they have re-released them several times on different consoles (and in HD) - but it doesn't exactly help that we're so acclimatised to getting re-released ports/remasters of Classic Sonic 1 and 2 every other year.

I often wonder on their priorities behind the scenes for how they make these decisions of remasters. Whilst the Dreamcast era (and and that of Unleashed & Generations) feel like they are pushed to the side, maybe Sonic Team struggle to find or trust in teams of outsourcers whilst they badger away on new projects? Maybe it's why we see titles like Origins come up again and again (because they have support to help them get these remastered properly again and again).

There was of course the Sonic Colours Ultimate experiment... and whilst a solid remaster, it still diluted the magic of the original making it feel less than Ultimate. 

From my prespective, I see that Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 exist in HD already (and didn't they do some other Dreamcast game Collections previously too?) so therefore a dedicated SA1 and/or 2 re-release is an obvious opportunity. It is surprising to me that these 2 titles still haven't made their way to the Nintendo Switch yet especially. However, it's probably more complicated than I give credit for, so I'm not going to pretend that I know how easy or difficult this would be to accomplish.

Anyway, who knows - maybe Sonic Origins is the start of a new or ongoing remaster initiative, perhaps we'll see a "Sonic Legacies" collection next with SA1/2/Heroes/Shth thrown in (or something to that regard). 

[Indigo Rush]

We don't have a rerelease of the Adventure games because ... we already have rereleases of the Adventure games. There isn't a fancy compilation pack or anything, but SA1 and SA2 are very much accessible these days, save for Nintendo consoles.

That said, the same can't really be said for Heroes, and the ports of SA1/2 aren't really good. SA2 has some minor problems that add up and SADX is a near assassination of the DC original, so I get the desire for a do-over. But as far as SEGA is concerned, these are games in the "metacritic yellow zone" that are still available to the average joe gamer, so remastering and compiling them isn't a priority.

By that logic, though, Sonic Origins probably didn't need to exist as Sonic 1,2 and CD are pretty darn easy to get your hands on. They're also the "good ones," so I dunno. Maybe we'll get an Adventure collection someday.

[Mangoaxe5]

9 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

and the ports of SA1/2 aren't really good. SA2 has some minor problems that add up

Not to get off-topic, but I've always heard that Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was way better than the original Sonic Adventure 2.

 

[Indigo Rush]

1 minute ago, Vampfox said:

Not to get off-topic, but I've always heard that Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was way better than the original Sonic Adventure 2.

 

May be worth its own thread, but it depends who you ask. Battle has more content and fixes certain things, although there are some tiny quirks that a more invested fan may be irked by (look at Sonics eye during his level clear animation, for example) 

To bring things back to Origins though, I am curious about the Story Mode and how they'll explain Sonic 1 only having 6 emeralds to collect, or the general time travel shenanigans in CD. For that matter, each game has different endings if you get the emeralds or not. Could this affect the animations that are played?

[HywelAtTheMoon]

I hope they put the vocals back in CD's cutscenes (JP soundtrack). I realise they were cut originally due to legal reasons, but apparently they were resolved after the Taxman release back in 2011. I could be wrong though.

[BubbleButt TV]

1 hour ago, Indigo Rush said:

We don't have a rerelease of the Adventure games because ... we already have rereleases of the Adventure games. There isn't a fancy compilation pack or anything, but SA1 and SA2 are very much accessible these days, save for Nintendo consoles.

That said, the same can't really be said for Heroes, and the ports of SA1/2 aren't really good. SA2 has some minor problems that add up and SADX is a near assassination of the DC original, so I get the desire for a do-over. But as far as SEGA is concerned, these are games in the "metacritic yellow zone" that are still available to the average joe gamer, so remastering and compiling them isn't a priority.

By that logic, though, Sonic Origins probably didn't need to exist as Sonic 1,2 and CD are pretty darn easy to get your hands on. They're also the "good ones," so I dunno. Maybe we'll get an Adventure collection someday.

I hope that someday maybe the people who worked on Better SADX can get together and pitch something to SEGA because Adventure 1's reputation has been sent down the toilet these days due to the awful DX port

[Jango]

5 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

I hope they put the vocals back in CD's cutscenes (JP soundtrack). I realise they were cut originally due to legal reasons, but apparently they were resolved after the Taxman release back in 2011. I could be wrong though.

That is correct. SEGA secured the rights back, but only after the Taxman port was out. A shame they never patch it back. Origins is a chance to fix that.

[DaBigJ]

Being, like, 100% upfront with you guys....the more I see posts like this, the more frustrated I get with SEGA as a whole with how it sometimes they play it so safe with their Sonic projects.

Don't get me wrong, Sonic Origins looks incredible. The amount of love and care the developers are putting into the package is insane, and having an OFFICIAL widescreen remake of Sonic the Hedgehog 3 is fucking fantastic...

But come on, you cannot tell me that some of the decisions made here, beyond that damn chart, are such gigantic missed opportunities. Yes, a lot of Sonic games have missed opportunities, but some of these are basic, no brainer things this time around.

Why is Knuckles not playable in Sonic CD? That game was made for exploration, and Knuckles is (or WAS) a treasure hunting explorer! His moveset would be perfect for Sonic CD. Fans have modded him in already in the decomp/steam version, there's no excuse for it not to be a feature here.

On top of that, only 4 games is pretty weak. Yes, I am well aware that doing something like, say, remaking 3D Blast or Spinball would take extra time that SEGA and the developers don't want to do....buuuuuut why not at LEAST include Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine into this? There's already an engine for it in Sonic Mania! Expand on it and make it a remake! It'd take more time, but it'd be another really good game in a sea of really good games and CD!

Am I being unreasonable? Maybe, but after countless other re-releases of the same damn games over and over again, I want SEGA to re-release something NEW, something obscure! I'm tired of the same retreads of Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic the Hedgehog 2, it's always those two games and rarely anything else that isn't a weird spinoff like Sonic Spinball.

Will I buy Origins? Probably, when I get enough money or it gets put on sale, but I wish SEGA would stop being so...samey, if that makes sense. Add something new to these collections. Not just new features, but new games. Games that weren't re-released before, or aren't commonly re-released. CD is a right step, but we need more steps taken.

[CertifiedNobody]

7 hours ago, Vampfox said:

That's nice, but I'd rather have a Dreamcast compilation. Why does Sega refuse to rerelease the Adventure games?

Xbox/PC users can't stop winning lmao