Megathread Sonic Origins | MT | General Discussion

[Silvereyes]

Speculation behind the decision to rerelease what Sonic games is rather interesting. If I had to speculate, with there being no handheld consoles left after the Nintendo 3DS's lifespan ended, and less spin-off Sonic games being made, it wouldn't be surprising if compliations and rereleases are seen as the answer to keep Sonic having a presence in the video game space, especially when the gaps between main games is so long.

For all intents and purposes, it's clear that Sonic Colours Ultimate last year was marketed as the big Sonic release. Colours I think was a fairly obvious choice for a rerelease since it reviewed well at the time, it was seen in a mostly positive light (even if in the fandom it seems like people started to dunk on Colours more after a few years), and it was only available on the Wii and Wii U. Sega seems to understand how much reverence and nostalgia the Mega Drive classics had, so giving them their own compilation (even if somewhat redudant), just makes sense, and will hopefully capitalise on new Mania fans.

The interesting thing to me is how Origins, Colours Ultimate, Team Sonic Racing, and Forces, I believe, all retailed around $40. Not to mention since TSR, how heavy an emphasis there has been on animation tying into the marketing, with TSR and Colours Ultimate getting their own Youtube cartoons while Origins' animations are featured as a new selling point. Total speculation but it certainly feels like there has been a bit of a new direction lately in how Sonic is sold and marketed. Colours Ultimate and Origins both seem to try to justify their price tags by adding alot of superflous content to help beef up their respective packages. Not to say it is neccesarily bad, especially with Origins, but it does seem like a strategy to justify $40 without having on relying on including other games to make the package bigger.

I'm guessing we'll see a decent big gap between main games after Frontiers drops. It seems like a good strategy to do more Sonic rereleases, ofcourse assuming Colours Ultimate and Origins are making profit. I think the choice of games seem less obvious moving forward. I guess Sonic Heroes would be the most obvious 3D title to do, it is the oldest 3D title to never be ported and has a decent reputation and nostalgia. Saying that though, it is an old game, and even for the time was pretty notoriously janky. I just can't imagine doing a remaster would be easy without borderline remaking the whole thing, but I'm not a game dev. To me, the obvious next step would be to mine Sonic's 2D adventures on the GBA, DS, and 3DS.

[DaBigJ]

Alright, hear me out.

If we can't get Knuckles in Sonic CD...can we at least get the Sonic + Tails combo in CD? IDK if it's in Sonic 1 (probably is), but it'd be cool if it was in CD. 

Not like it's impossible either.

https://gamebanana.com/wips/67089

Someone's already working on a mod for decomp that does this.

[TheOcelot]

1 hour ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

Alright, hear me out.

If we can't get Knuckles in Sonic CD...can we at least get the Sonic + Tails combo in CD? IDK if it's in Sonic 1 (probably is), but it'd be cool if it was in CD. 

I hope so too.

Sonic (with Tails AI) combo was in the Sonic 1 mobile remaster so I'm 100% confident it will be in the Origins version. As for Sonic (with Tails AI) in the new version of CD? I'm not so sure this will be added.

We know Stealth (and his team) is handling the 3K remaster but they are not involved with the changes being made to the mobile remasters (adding the coins system for Anniversary Mode etc) which is being handled internally by SEGA. Which leads me to the question; exactly what changes will SEGA be prepared to make/capable of making? Knuckles being absent is disappointing and whilst Sonic (with Tails AI) would be a welcome edition to CD (I always enjoy this character formation), I'm not 100% confident SEGA will do this, even though most of the sprites for Tails are already available thanks to the 2011 remaster. I think only "Tails assist" sprites (so he can carry Sonic) would need to be created for Origins' CD (I assume it would be easy enough to adapt the Tails assist sprites from the Sonic 1 remaster).

Kudos to SEGA if they do add this character combo.

 

[Coz483]

On 4/24/2022 at 7:59 AM, Vampfox said:

That's nice, but I'd rather have a Dreamcast compilation. Why does Sega refuse to rerelease the Adventure games?

They already rereleased them tons of times, what I'm wondering is why they refuse to rerelease heroes 

[Kazhnuz]

Heroes might have some technical issue : it use a proprietary graphical middleware (Renderware) which have been bought by EA since a while and doesn't have had new release for a long time. For instance, GTA Trilogy seems to be used UE4 for what I've seen, which might mean that Heroes would have technical difficultes for a simple re-release or port, and would need like Colors Ultimate to be ported to a new graphical engine.

And combined with that the reception of Heroes isn't to the levels of the Adventure/Classics/Colors&Generations, it might make it not really compelling to do.

[Mangoaxe5]

1 hour ago, Coz483 said:

They already rereleased them tons of times

But I can't play them on my current systems(Playstation 4, and Nintendo Switch). So that doesn't do me any good.

 

[CertifiedNobody]

2 hours ago, Vampfox said:

But I can't play them on my current systems(Playstation 4, and Nintendo Switch). So that doesn't do me any good.

 

I think it's funny that you have the two specific systems they aren't on.

Thee adventure games should be rereleased, but I would be so upset if they didn't release them with something else like Heroes to make it worthwhile for Xbox & PC users that already have them on current systems.

[Silvereyes]

Depends how much they charge them for them. I don't think there is anything wrong with Sega dumping the Adventure games on PSN and the Switch eshop for a cheap prize. Don't think it is an insult to those who already own them on other systems. But it wouldn't surprise me if Sega is quietly thinking of a way to perhaps repackage and resell the Adventure games in some nice new glossy package. I think it is worth noting as well that in terms of availability, it is a strategy to purposelly not port games for a while so that the demand for a new port grows as the years pass. It's what Disney did with VHS tapes with their "Disney Vault" and it is obvious Nintendo wants to do something similar, most notable with their limited release of Super Mario 3D All Stars, which saw the first time Super Mario Sunshine was ported. Missed the window to buy 3D All Stars? Well you can't pickup Sunshine, better go second hand for an overpriced copy or get your Gamecube or emulator out.

It is one of the reasons Colours made sense. It was a Wii exclusive and that console is two generations old. (Also on the Wii U but who owned a Wii U?) Likewise the CD remaster was on PS3, 360, and PC, but I don't believe until Origins that it has been ported since then, obviously the PC version is available but I don't believe you can buy CD for the PS4, PS5, Xbox One, Xbox Series X/S. It does help to justify sales for these remasters. I think the lack of including the Game Gear titles, and their removal from the ports of Sonic Adventure DX is a sign that Sega wants to be more careful with what games they rerelease. Wouldn't be surprised if the Game Gear games are being kept for perhaps a future compilation. Or perhaps Sega felt that including them in Origins, even at $40 for games all over a generation old, is being too generous to the consumer.

The whole thing is very interesting to me.

8 hours ago, Kazhnuz said:

Heroes might have some technical issue : it use a proprietary graphical middleware (Renderware) which have been bought by EA since a while and doesn't have had new release for a long time. For instance, GTA Trilogy seems to be used UE4 for what I've seen, which might mean that Heroes would have technical difficultes for a simple re-release or port, and would need like Colors Ultimate to be ported to a new graphical engine.

And combined with that the reception of Heroes isn't to the levels of the Adventure/Classics/Colors&Generations, it might make it not really compelling to do.

Makes sense. If true, I would argue that is the kindof thing that would justify a $40 price tag, you'd basically be entering the realm of borderline remake.

[pppp]

20 hours ago, CertifiedNobody said:

I think it's funny that you have the two specific systems they aren't on.

Thee adventure games should be rereleased, but I would be so upset if they didn't release them with something else like Heroes to make it worthwhile for Xbox & PC users that already have them on current systems.

The fact that new systems release over the years is the main reason why I complain about SEGA's refusal of making 3D Sonic Re-releases that are not Colors Ultimate and Lost World PC. Hell a Lost World Switch port would allow for official access to the Nintendo DLC, so it should be a priority.

We have 5 years of wait between each new main game, making plenty of room for re-releases, but no, let's let the fans drying for 5 years with nothing.

[NikoS]

I'm late for this, but besides the confusing table that was released (and we could have a better one, as the example below), there is not much difference between the standard and deluxe editions. (price and content-wise)

 

I'm planning to get it in the future, the story mode, animations and overall improvements (not to mention having the Taxman/Stealth versions running on my PC, plus 3&K getting the same treatment) are all good points in my list; the extra stuff also sounds it can be great.

[light-gaia]

On 4/25/2022 at 8:35 PM, Silvereyes said:

Depends how much they charge them for them. I don't think there is anything wrong with Sega dumping the Adventure games on PSN and the Switch eshop for a cheap prize. Don't think it is an insult to those who already own them on other systems. But it wouldn't surprise me if Sega is quietly thinking of a way to perhaps repackage and resell the Adventure games in some nice new glossy package. I think it is worth noting as well that in terms of availability, it is a strategy to purposelly not port games for a while so that the demand for a new port grows as the years pass. It's what Disney did with VHS tapes with their "Disney Vault" and it is obvious Nintendo wants to do something similar, most notable with their limited release of Super Mario 3D All Stars, which saw the first time Super Mario Sunshine was ported. Missed the window to buy 3D All Stars? Well you can't pickup Sunshine, better go second hand for an overpriced copy or get your Gamecube or emulator out.

It is one of the reasons Colours made sense. It was a Wii exclusive and that console is two generations old. (Also on the Wii U but who owned a Wii U?) Likewise the CD remaster was on PS3, 360, and PC, but I don't believe until Origins that it has been ported since then, obviously the PC version is available but I don't believe you can buy CD for the PS4, PS5, Xbox One, Xbox Series X/S. It does help to justify sales for these remasters. I think the lack of including the Game Gear titles, and their removal from the ports of Sonic Adventure DX is a sign that Sega wants to be more careful with what games they rerelease. Wouldn't be surprised if the Game Gear games are being kept for perhaps a future compilation. Or perhaps Sega felt that including them in Origins, even at $40 for games all over a generation old, is being too generous to the consumer.

The whole thing is very interesting to me.

Makes sense. If true, I would argue that is the kindof thing that would justify a $40 price tag, you'd basically be entering the realm of borderline remake.

If Sega releases a collection of the early 3D entries (from Sonic Adventure 1 to Shadow the Hedgehog) with the same level of quality as Sonic Origins, I think I'll cry. Heroes without glitches and bugs, better controls, QoL improvements, etc. New animated cutscenes for SA, SA2, and being able to play the original versions in the same collection.

The other game I would love to see remastered is Sonic Unleashed. Smoother frame rate, QoL improvements. It would be so great.

Being a fan of the 3D Sonic games sucks because this is probably never going to happen.

[Silvereyes]

3 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

If Sega releases a collection of the early 3D entries (from Sonic Adventure 1 to Shadow the Hedgehog) with the same level of quality as Sonic Origins, I think I'll cry. Heroes without glitches and bugs, better controls, QoL improvements, etc. New animated cutscenes for SA, SA2, and being able to play the original versions in the same collection.

The other game I would love to see remastered is Sonic Unleashed. Smoother frame rate, QoL improvements. It would be so great.

Being a fan of the 3D Sonic games sucks because this is probably never going to happen.

I think Heroes will get some kind of re-release at some point. Whether Sega will put any effort into improving it is another question. SA1 and SA2 are popular, I'm sure sooner or later they'll get rereleased again. But it might be like with Origins. Origins, for what it seems, is just repackaging 3 ports that already existed (1, 2, CD) and giving us 1 brand new port (Sonic 3&K), just with some dressing over the existing content to make it seem brand new. Wouldn't surprise me if SA1 and SA2 get similar treatment, the same ports but with a bit of gloss put over them, packaged with something like a new Heroes port to justify a $40 price tag. Sadly, I think the idea of SA1 and SA2 getting ported again from scratch with proper love and dedication just isn't going to happen.

I also have the bad feeling that especially infamous games like Shadow and '06 are just never going to get proper ports. At best, maybe very basic ports thrown in as an extra to a compilation to perhaps make it more value for money. But I think those 2 games especially are the ones Sega are quite happy to bury and move on from. I think Unleashed will get ported at some point, as well as Generations, and even Forces. They are on more modern systems and I imagine porting them isn't as arduous as it would be for older games. They are already in HD. Unleashed is backwards compatible on the newer Xbox consoles and it seems that its framerate issues basically vanish when it is put on more modern hardware anyway.

The Storybook games seem a bit weirder, they were specifically designed for the Wii, and I'm not sure they are that popular. Ideally a compilation with those 2 games in HD and 60fps would be great. Feels like you could design them to be in-tune with the Switch's Joy Cons especially. But again, may get forgotten. And then there is Lost World, which might as well be a PC exclusive for the time being. Be surprised if Lost World doesn't get dumped out at some point.

[Salamander]

One might call this a drawback of Sonic's prolific output in times past.  The work to be done in (official) preservation is enormous.

[Silvereyes]

7 hours ago, Salamander said:

One might call this a drawback of Sonic's prolific output in times past.  The work to be done in (official) preservation is enormous.

True, but if Sega wants $40 just to port a single 3D game or a few 2D games, arguably that's what the $40 price tag should be going towards.

[light-gaia]

14 hours ago, Silvereyes said:

I think Heroes will get some kind of re-release at some point. Whether Sega will put any effort into improving it is another question. SA1 and SA2 are popular, I'm sure sooner or later they'll get rereleased again. But it might be like with Origins. Origins, for what it seems, is just repackaging 3 ports that already existed (1, 2, CD) and giving us 1 brand new port (Sonic 3&K), just with some dressing over the existing content to make it seem brand new. Wouldn't surprise me if SA1 and SA2 get similar treatment, the same ports but with a bit of gloss put over them, packaged with something like a new Heroes port to justify a $40 price tag. Sadly, I think the idea of SA1 and SA2 getting ported again from scratch with proper love and dedication just isn't going to happen.

I also have the bad feeling that especially infamous games like Shadow and '06 are just never going to get proper ports. At best, maybe very basic ports thrown in as an extra to a compilation to perhaps make it more value for money. But I think those 2 games especially are the ones Sega are quite happy to bury and move on from. I think Unleashed will get ported at some point, as well as Generations, and even Forces. They are on more modern systems and I imagine porting them isn't as arduous as it would be for older games. They are already in HD. Unleashed is backwards compatible on the newer Xbox consoles and it seems that its framerate issues basically vanish when it is put on more modern hardware anyway.

The Storybook games seem a bit weirder, they were specifically designed for the Wii, and I'm not sure they are that popular. Ideally a compilation with those 2 games in HD and 60fps would be great. Feels like you could design them to be in-tune with the Switch's Joy Cons especially. But again, may get forgotten. And then there is Lost World, which might as well be a PC exclusive for the time being. Be surprised if Lost World doesn't get dumped out at some point.

Shadow the Hedgehog is too controversial to get a stand alone re-release. I think the only way it could work would be a compilation of SA, SA2, Heroes e Shadow TH. Like Megacollection that had the popular Genesis games + Sonic 3D Blast and other stuff.

When it comes to the Storybook games, Black Knight can work very well without motion controls, but Secret Rings require more work, I think.

[Jango]

I think it's been too long to still consider these games "controversial" or "damageable to the franchise" today, you know. I wish they could embrace their legacy and just make these games (Heroes, Shadow, 06, Unleashed) available again. But as business always is, they have to consider the risks of doing so. It'd be a better idea to release ALL these games in a single package than standalone releases. Even if they are mostly simpler ports and not full-on remakes. 

[Shiny Gems]

So, since we are talking 3D re-releases/ports, who do you guys think, as in 3D fan game makers, should Sega and Sonic Team hire to do the 3D games if they were to be re-released, if they ever were to do it for any reason? I know there are plenty of candidates with their own engine if Sonic Team didn't want to remake the games themselves, but I am not sure who exactly would be a good pick to do the job.

[Shiny Gems]

Just now, The Great Egg Emperor said:

How likely is it that the vocal versions of Sonic CD's Japanese opening and ending themes will be restored for Origins?

I mean, the legal issues with Casey Rankin's estate must have been fixed by now, right?

Apparently, they are, as @Jango and @TheOcelothave said. Whether they will actually be included or excluded (for whatever reason for the latter) is what has yet to be revealed. I do hope they are included, though.

[Silvereyes]

1 hour ago, Jango said:

I think it's been too long to still consider these games "controversial" or "damageable to the franchise" today, you know.

Well, I agree. I'm just trying to see it from Sega's point of view. This is the company that time again seems to often take the wrong lessons from their past mistakes. I just can't imagine Shadow or '06 getting the Colours Ultimate treatment. I think the best we can hope for is being quietly put into some other compilation package.

[Jango]

3 hours ago, Silvereyes said:

Well, I agree. I'm just trying to see it from Sega's point of view. This is the company that time again seems to often take the wrong lessons from their past mistakes. I just can't imagine Shadow or '06 getting the Colours Ultimate treatment. I think the best we can hope for is being quietly put into some other compilation package.

Tbh we'd be lucky if Shadow and 06 don't get the Ultimate treatment xD They have issues enough as it is LMAO I'd be happy with a simple widescreen port with sharper textures. 

[CertifiedNobody]

I could see Shadow and 06 getting rereleased as part of a pack if the movies use stuff from them someday.

[StaticMania]

3 hours ago, CrystalMaelStorm said:

...who do you guys think, as in 3D fan game makers, should Sega and Sonic Team hire to do the 3D games if they were to be re-released...

None of them.

That area is not nearly as refined as you think it is, especially with everyone mostly working separately...and primarily using Boost-like gameplay.

[Shiny Gems]

12 hours ago, StaticMania said:

None of them.

That area is not nearly as refined as you think it is, especially with everyone mostly working separately...and primarily using Boost-like gameplay.

Ah, I see.

By the way (not directed at just you, StaticMania), since Sonic Spinball is going to have music in Sonic Origins if I recall correctly, I would be surprised if Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, which is another spinoff, was not referenced in some way in Sonic Origins, considering the Mean Bean Machine boss fight in Sonic Mania in Chemical Plant Zone. Just saying.

[light-gaia]

16 hours ago, Jango said:

I think it's been too long to still consider these games "controversial" or "damageable to the franchise" today, you know. I wish they could embrace their legacy and just make these games (Heroes, Shadow, 06, Unleashed) available again. But as business always is, they have to consider the risks of doing so. It'd be a better idea to release ALL these games in a single package than standalone releases. Even if they are mostly simpler ports and not full-on remakes. 

The public opinion has changed a lot about most of these games. Sonic Heroes is definitely one of the most popular 3D Sonic games now, Sonic Unleashed, too. I don't think they are controversial anymore. The same can be said about Sonic and the Black Knight. Secret Rings, on the other hand, became less popular because the controls haven't aged well. I think if they are able to re-release Secret Rings without the motion controls, it would be a really great game. But, they would need to tweak the level design a little bit to fit this new control scheme.

When it comes to Shadow TH and 2006, they are still controversial, unfortunately. But I think Shadow the Hedgehog could be a decent enough experience with a few tweaks and QoL improvements. Such as the physics and putting radar and a map in some stages. It could be a good idea to re-release in a collection alongside Sonic Movie 3.

Sonic 2006 would require way more work, though, because it's not just unpolished, it's unfinished.

[LegoFedora]

Sega isn't too afraid to rerelease Shadow/Heroes, they were rereleased on the psn in Europe/Japan back on the ps3. I think the hardest part of rereleasing Shadow/Heroes for them is the music rights, those games actually have quite a bit of licensed music from multiple bands if I recall correctly (I know Julien-K and Powerman 5000 were involved for Shadow, can't recall any others off the top of my head). They might have to pay royalties/renew contracts for it.

But if they do rerelease Shadow, it'd be nice to see them find a way to work in some of the removed tracks, I'd love to see songs like "Broken" or "Who I Am" get back in, even if only as alternate credits songs.