Megathread Sonic Origins | MT | General Discussion

[CertifiedNobody]

If they're treating the combined version of 3 & Knuckles as canon, then isn't Hyper Sonic too? They can't just remove him since the whole reason he exists is so that you can't get Super Sonic in the Sonic 3 half and break the game. The cutscenes would have to acknowledge Hyper Sonic, wouldn't they?

[Kazhnuz]

Well, it'll all depends of what they want to do. They might have the Super Emerald back and canonize Hyper Sonic (it wouldn't be unlike them to change their mind xD), especially with Flynn writing the cutscenes. If they feel extra-fancy, they might show the Super Emerald turning to stone to make a connection with Mania, but I don't think they'll go this far.

It'll depends a lot of how they'll handle this story mode. This would be the simplest way to handle it, as the Chaos Emerald go aways in cutscene in the end of S1 and in the beggining of S2, so just keeping the one of S3 would be the easiest way.

 

( Now, except if they somehow decide to bring it back (the only possibility I see is the "multiple Super Form battle" possible leak from the initial Sonic Frontiers concept presentation leak, which would actually makes Hyper Sonic useful game-design wise), it won't change that Hyper Sonic is functionnaly inexistent, and the "classic-modern" split will even mean that they might just cope out of it being part of the Modern canon, so it'll change basically nothing except for wiki fans )

[Tenko]

Seeing the footage for the 3D Islands in the background of the recent Sonic Station broadcast I still think it's weird that Little Planet isn't animated in its 3D Island thing. Just sits there static in the sky, could at least tug at the chain a little, bob up and down a bit or something, I mean isn't that the whole reason the rocks broke off in the Sonic CD intro, the chain hit the mountain due to Little Planet moving about.

[Diogenes]

2 hours ago, CertifiedNobody said:

If they're treating the combined version of 3 & Knuckles as canon, then isn't Hyper Sonic too? They can't just remove him since the whole reason he exists is so that you can't get Super Sonic in the Sonic 3 half and break the game. The cutscenes would have to acknowledge Hyper Sonic, wouldn't they?

It wouldn't necessarily need to be canon. Even if they animate anything to do with Hyper Sonic or the Super Emeralds, it could just be an alternate, noncanon "best" ending, just as not getting the emeralds gives you an alternate, noncanon "bad" ending.

[CertifiedNobody]

4 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It wouldn't necessarily need to be canon. Even if they animate anything to do with Hyper Sonic or the Super Emeralds, it could just be an alternate, noncanon "best" ending, just as not getting the emeralds gives you an alternate, noncanon "bad" ending.

That results in a situation where the vast majority of players get the non-canon good ending. With how many giant rings are scattered around, you'd have to deliberately avoid them just to get the "canon" ending with Super Sonic. That's convoluted and unnecessary. 

[Kazhnuz]

The very concept of canon is somewhat convoluted and unnecessary, so I wouldn't be surprised. /jk

More seriously, I don't think it'll mean many things for the "canon", as the canon of Sonic is mostly "what they want it is", so even if they put Hyper Sonic in the cutscene of Sonic Origins, there is the question of if it'll really change anything, or have any incidence outside of just making the over-interested fans happy. Especially as for the moment, Hyper Sonic is basically just a "Super Form + 1" that was made for gameplay reason before everything.

[Diogenes]

7 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

That results in a situation where the vast majority of players get the non-canon good ending. With how many giant rings are scattered around, you'd have to deliberately avoid them just to get the "canon" ending with Super Sonic. That's convoluted and unnecessary. 

I'm not 100% sure but I think if you go through a flashing big ring/lose the chaos emeralds/summon the inactive supers but don't activate all the super emeralds you still go to Doomsday as Super Sonic. If I'm right about that, I think there's a pretty reasonable number of people who would get the chaos emeralds but not all of the supers by the time they hit the endgame and thus get the canon ending. Though, really, most people would probably get the bad ending their first time through anyway.

Regardless, whether it's convoluted and/or unnecessary doesn't really matter? If they want to say the super emeralds/Hyper forms aren't canon and the Super Sonic ending is, that's just how it goes, regardless of how many people get whichever ending. And it's not like the endings are so different that you'd be missing out by going Hyper rather than Super, they're basically identical besides how glowy Sonic is.

[Dr. Mechano]

I just prefer whatever is in the games themselves to be "canon" rather than statements made by the creators after the fact.

Tails and Knuckles went super in the games? Bam, their super forms should be considered canon; if not events that happened (due to the Sonic route being considered the canonical one or whatever), then powers that could  still happen if they used the Emeralds themselves. Same for the Chaos Emeralds getting temporarily super-charged and letting Sonic go hyper.

There's just something inherently lame about seeing characters do a cool thing in a game and then being told "Actually no, they can't really do that."

[Kuzu]

Its the dichotomy of gameplay and storytelling. Let's be real, the Classic games really weren't that concerned with telling a cohesive story at all. Most of its storytelling is in the background and a kind of "read between the lines" type of storytelling. If you wanted Tails or Knuckles to be the hero of the story, knock yourself out, who cares.

When the series actually shifted towards a more storytelling direction after Sonic Adventure, things needed to start "making sense". Sonic (and I guess Shadow in the 2000's ) is the undisputed hero now and retcons happened from the Classic Era.

 

Its why Hyper Sonic just isn't a thing anymore or why Tails and Knuckles can't go Super. They were gameplay elements first and foremost. There's functionally very little difference between Super Sonic and Hyper Sonic besides thr colors and I think this series could do with a little less Dragon Ball esc transformations and escalation. And once Super Sonic became reserved for endgame bosses only, there was very little reason for Tails and Knuckles to be able to go Super anymore.

[CertifiedNobody]

29 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I'm not 100% sure but I think if you go through a flashing big ring/lose the chaos emeralds/summon the inactive supers but don't activate all the super emeralds you still go to Doomsday as Super Sonic. If I'm right about that, I think there's a pretty reasonable number of people who would get the chaos emeralds but not all of the supers by the time they hit the endgame and thus get the canon ending. Though, really, most people would probably get the bad ending their first time through anyway.

Regardless, whether it's convoluted and/or unnecessary doesn't really matter? If they want to say the super emeralds/Hyper forms aren't canon and the Super Sonic ending is, that's just how it goes, regardless of how many people get whichever ending. And it's not like the endings are so different that you'd be missing out by going Hyper rather than Super, they're basically identical besides how glowy Sonic is.

I'm pretty sure you don't get Doomsday if you lose the Chaos Emeralds.

[Blue Blood]

1 hour ago, CertifiedNobody said:

I'm pretty sure you don't get Doomsday if you lose the Chaos Emeralds.

The easiest way to put it is that you go to Doomsday if you have the ability to become either Super Sonic or Hyper Sonic. As soon as you have lost either ability, you can't go to Doomsday. 

[G-Force]

As long as you've collected all 7 of the Chaos Emeralds, Sonic will go to Doomsday Zone no matter what.

I know from experience that nothing else matters. 

I've given up the Chaos Emeralds, failed to collect the Supers, and been surprised to see Sonic still turn Super for Doomsday.

[CertifiedNobody]

2 hours ago, G-Force said:

As long as you've collected all 7 of the Chaos Emeralds, Sonic will go to Doomsday Zone no matter what.

I know from experience that nothing else matters. 

I've given up the Chaos Emeralds, failed to collect the Supers, and been surprised to see Sonic still turn Super for Doomsday.

I've seen a lot of conflicting info on this and I really don't want to bother with checking.

[G-Force]

30 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

I've seen a lot of conflicting info on this and I really don't want to bother with checking.

I don't blame you, I'm going off of memory myself since the alternative is digging out and hooking up my old Gamecube.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles was my jam back in the day, both on the Genesis and in Mega Collection, so a lot more of that game is burned into my memory than I care to admit.  And I have a distinct memory of going Super in Doomsday despite giving up the Chaos Emeralds.

I can't 100% guarantee that the Origins version will be exactly the same, but I'm very confident this is how the original version was.

[JezMM]

I do wonder how Story mode will handle chaos emerald collection stuff as you go between games - I assume it'll just kinda gloss over it without really worrying that much.  I'm sure it was like, a canon thing that Sonic DOES go Super in Sonic 2, Tails & Sonic know what the emeralds are and what they're capable of, and it's tracking their re-appearance on Angel Island that leads them there.  Depends how in-depth these between-game cut-scenes are gonna go, I guess.

[Salamander]

I don't know that I'd expect much in the way of granular detail from the inter-game cutscenes; more a brief adaptation of any backstory from the manuals, such as the Death Egg crashing into Angel Island and bringing it down to sea level, etc.  Sequels to Sonic CD's opening and closing animations.

[Tenko]

2 hours ago, Salamander said:

I don't know that I'd expect much in the way of granular detail from the inter-game cutscenes; more a brief adaptation of any backstory from the manuals, such as the Death Egg crashing into Angel Island and bringing it down to sea level, etc.  Sequels to Sonic CD's opening and closing animations.

I did think it was interesting that when asked about Sonic CD's animations in the broadcast, if they would be the same or if there were new ones too, Katie said "a little bit of both". We know the original opening and ending animations have been remastered, and we also have seen I'm assuming part of some new CD based animation with that Origins trailer. So either there are two it cycles between (like Mania's intro with different music track) or the new Origins ones are used as an interlude during game play at some points.

It's interesting they went out of their way to get Ian to write the animations for story mode too, makes it feel like it might have some proper flow rather than just a bunch of random "remember this part of the game, now its animated, wasn't that cool" clips.

[Coz483]

5 hours ago, JezMM said:

  I'm sure it was like, a canon thing that Sonic DOES go Super in Sonic 2, Tails & Sonic know what the emeralds are and what they're capable of, and it's tracking their re-appearance on Angel Island that leads them there. 

Wish the bad ending was canon tbh, that was cuter.

[DaBigJ]

So someone posted this 4Chan...thing on Twitter (REST OF POST IN SPOILERS)

Spoiler

I want to believe this, but there is exactly zero chances of a playable Metal Sonic. Literally not happening. Plus, "game has been finished for months?" Really?

 

[King Conne]

I hope it's fake concerning SPEED BATTLE...

[Edward850]

1 hour ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

Spoiler

Plus, "game has been finished for months?" Really?

 

Spoiler

Well that's not improbable. You need a lot done early to meet certification deadlines, and if you wanted to make absolutely sure you meet a milestone date (the anniversary in this case), yeah you'd want to make sure absolutely nothing could delay that. So you'd set your deadline much earlier to give yourself a safety net.

 

[Cosmos Rogue]

We already know Knuckles isn't going to be playable in Sonic CD so I think we can throw the rest of those rumors into the trash fire.

[Mangoaxe5]

I don't know why anyone thought that Knuckles was gonna be playable in Sonic CD in the first place.

 

[Indigo Rush]

10 minutes ago, Vampfox said:

I don't know why anyone thought that Knuckles was gonna be playable in Sonic CD in the first place.

Because the trailer indicated that Sonic, Tails and Knuckles were playable in the collection.

I mean, seriously, it's not an unreasonable expectation by any means. I don't know why anyone would think he wouldn't be if it weren't for the Famitsu article.

Also, I don't buy the "he would break the level design" argument one bit. CD wasn't designed for Tails' flight ability, but they made it work. The most likely reason Knux isn't playable is because they didn't feel it worth the effort to hire a sprite artist or playtest his glide and climb abilities. It's a garbage reason to not do it, but it's the most credible one.

[DaBigJ]

Seriously, if modders can do it, then it's not unreasonable to expect a multi million dollar company to put some time in letting people make extra assets and port code over from Sonic 1/2's remasters to CD.