Megathread Sonic Origins | MT | General Discussion

[Red Hot Jack]

43 minutes ago, DaN said:

This whole thing is definitely better than expected, but unless there are more surprises coming, the price is too high. 
I was worried they wouldn’t implement the Drop Dash but it seems they did.

for it to be worth this price it needs to have:

 

- Amy, Metal Sonic, Mighty and Ray as unlockable characters

- the game gear games , spinball, chaotix and mean bean machine unlockables in the museum too. Even not upscaled would be sufficient

 

Btw it is still very sad that in 2022, after the huge success of the movies, Sega is not pouring more money to make a full remake of the classic games, with new sprites in HD (a la Streets of Rage 4). They’re missing the opportunity to make a huge profit

While it's true it would be easy profit. I am not sure a full remake of the classic games is a good idea, would the fans like that? I would rather have remasters with new features and more options. They need ti capitalize on those, the charm is there with the original sprites, it's not like the SA series that aged poorly graphically. That said I would like a new classic 2D game with an all new style.

[DaBigJ]

1 hour ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

This one image is one of the most interesting things to me. Is there no save select? Is that a different menu? No Sonic + Tails? And what about the little icon above Sonic? Is that for his moveset, or appearance? Why only Sonic? So many questions.

Ok so it turns out the icon is just a clear check. It's shown in the trailer

Lame

[Wraith]

2 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

It's legitimate difficulty, but only to a certain point. The Classic games don't divy up their challenges. You could blast through every zone in S2 before getting a Game Over in Death Egg because suddenly the game decides you have to play with absolute perfection. And then you'd have to play through the entire game again without having had any opportunity to practice against the two 1HKO bosses you fought back to back. 7 year old me couldn't find the hit box on the Death Egg Robo! Or on the flip side, you could just grind out lives early on (sometimes without trying) and make the rest of the a joke. 

Modern games often take things too far with the removal of the lives system which in effect removes all incentive to play a well and instead encourages brute force. That's why I like the ranking systems, especially from SA2 to 06. You had to play the game well to get those ranks. And amother alternative is Unleashed Wii. Even though that game is awful, it had a really good lives system. Every time you started a level, you only had three lives and you couldn't earn more of them as you played (I think). Therefore, your challenge was to complete any level in a set number of attempts using checkpoints, and if you failed that then you had to start the level from the beginning again. You could unlock permanent upgrades to your life count in the hubs. 

It's been a long time since I've come close to getting a Game Over in a Classic Sonic game. This change won't really impact me personally. But yeah I think that there are more elegant solutions to the "extra lives" problem than always reliving them outright. 

Yeah you basically said what I was struggling to say. I think the real depth and joy from these games comes from really milking the level design for all it has to offer, so any incentive at all to engage with it is better than none. If you ignore it and only approach these games as 'one and dones' like you only walk away with a short, frictionless experience that doesn't live up to the spectacle and the story that the modern games offer. I want people to really understand what these games have to offer when they try them for the first time, and of course they're good enough that a lot of people will, but it's still something I think about.

So when games remove live systems because I really push for them to replace them with something. I don't know how well a ranking system would work for classic sonic but Time and Score Attack modes that have ghosts players can watch would be a good step in the right direction without drawing too much negative attention to less skilled players.

[Jango]

Man, I'm just glad we got the dream team back together, Taxman, Stealth, Tyson, Hyper Potions, and now even Ian... I thought Mania Plus was their send off. You know, this lights a little bit of hope for Mania 2.  

[Enesephus]

10 minutes ago, Red Hot Jack said:

While it's true it would be easy profit. I am not sure a full remake of the classic games is a good idea, would the fans like that? I would rather have remasters with new features and more options. They need ti capitalize on those, the charm is there with the original sprites, it's not like the SA series that aged poorly graphically. That said I would like a new classic 2D game with an all new style.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I would absolutely LOVE to play the Classic games with fully 2-D animated/hand-drawn visuals. I'd probably fall in love with them all over again. Yeah, their graphics hold up well enough that they don't really need such an update, but that doesn't really matter to me. 

[VO.SUPER]

9 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Yeah you basically said what I was struggling to say. I think the real depth and joy from these games comes from really milking the level design for all it has to offer, so any incentive at all to engage with it is better than none. If you ignore it and only approach these games as 'one and dones' like you only walk away with a short, frictionless experience that doesn't live up to the spectacle and the story that the modern games offer. I want people to really understand what these games have to offer when they try them for the first time, and of course they're good enough that a lot of people will, but it's still something I think about.

So when games remove live systems because I really push for them to replace them with something. I don't know how well a ranking system would work for classic sonic but Time and Score Attack modes that have ghosts players can watch would be a good step in the right direction without drawing too much negative attention to less skilled players.

That also seems to be what mission mode is for. Since it's going to involve what looks like to be mixes of scavenger hunts and time limits. So the replay value is there in more subtle ways. 

[DaBigJ]

So, some more minor details?

 

[JezMM]

16 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Yeah you basically said what I was struggling to say. I think the real depth and joy from these games comes from really milking the level design for all it has to offer, so any incentive at all to engage with it is better than none. If you ignore it and only approach these games as 'one and dones' like you only walk away with a short, frictionless experience that doesn't live up to the spectacle and the story that the modern games offer. I want people to really understand what these games have to offer when they try them for the first time, and of course they're good enough that a lot of people will, but it's still something I think about.

So when games remove live systems because I really push for them to replace them with something. I don't know how well a ranking system would work for classic sonic but Time and Score Attack modes that have ghosts players can watch would be a good step in the right direction without drawing too much negative attention to less skilled players.

It would actually be pretty great if some of the side missions in this game teach stuff that you'd think the games naturally teach through normal gameplay but apparently can go over the head of a lot of people, considering how many folks thought Sonic 4 Episode 1 was fine and totally captured the classics on release, and the number of people who grew up on the classics but think Sonic is just about going fast, not obtaining fast.

Still not ideal since I'm sure that maybe only 50% of non-passionate players will engage with the side content (and that's being generous), but yeah.

[LegoFedora]

1 minute ago, JezMM said:

Still not ideal since I'm sure that maybe only 50% of non-passionate players will engage with the side content (and that's being generous), but yeah.

There's an easy way to help fix this: Lock some achievements/trophies behind finishing all the side content. It won't get everyone to play them, but for the trophy hunters they won't get the option. Make the rest of the trophies super easy to get, so that way people might see the 92% complete trophy completion and try to go for that last 8%.

[Jango]

Ray mother fucking tracing in MY SONIC GAME? Oh God.

[DaBigJ]

3 minutes ago, Jango said:

Ray mother fucking tracing in MY SONIC GAME? Oh God.

Ray tracing with Ray the flying Squirrel

[Darkvizardberrytan]

49 minutes ago, WhoWhatMan said:

You said this yet there's literally goofy clown music in the final soundtrack lol

 

I see what you did there rofl

[Shiny Gems]

Say, in the Sonic 3 and Knuckles remaster in Sonic Origins, if they add new music to that remaster, do you guys think they could replace the Super Sonic theme music for that? The Super Sonic music we had before was repetitive.

[Indigo Rush]

On the subject of lives being absent from Anniversary Mode, I wonder if you lose those when you die in the games, meaning the penalty for failure is less currency to buy the bonus content? If so, that'll sting plenty...

 

...until you've bought everything.

[Sonicka]

9 minutes ago, CrystalMaelStorm said:

Say, in the Sonic 3 and Knuckles remaster in Sonic Origins, if they add new music to that remaster, do you guys think they could replace the Super Sonic theme music for that? The Super Sonic music we had before was repetitive.

The wonderful 5 second loop, no wonder fleetway made their version of Super Sonic Insane. 

[Kuzu]

1 hour ago, JezMM said:

It would actually be pretty great if some of the side missions in this game teach stuff that you'd think the games naturally teach through normal gameplay but apparently can go over the head of a lot of people, considering how many folks thought Sonic 4 Episode 1 was fine and totally captured the classics on release, and the number of people who grew up on the classics but think Sonic is just about going fast, not obtaining fast.

Still not ideal since I'm sure that maybe only 50% of non-passionate players will engage with the side content (and that's being generous), but yeah.

 

I see it similar to fighting games, you're never going to get 100% of the audience invested in these games, mostly due to the amount of investment needed to get the most out of it. Hell, Modern Fighting games have tons of content to teach newer players their nuances and mechanics, but all of that still requires actually studying the game and that's just...not congruent with Modern gaming sensibilities of playing a game once and then just putting it down. 

It makes me understand why games tend to be so long and cinematic nowadays, they have to capture their audience on a single playthrough as opposed to multiple ones.

 

I don't completely agree, but that's the Boomer in me.e 

[LegoFedora]

7 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

On the subject of lives being absent from Anniversary Mode, I wonder if you lose those when you die in the games, meaning the penalty for failure is less currency to buy the bonus content? If so, that'll sting plenty...

 

...until you've bought everything.

I doubt coins would be used to replace lives, it'll probably be like forces/colors where it just keeps placing you at the last checkpoint. The only "retries" coins will give you seem to be for the special stages, which is a pretty nice QoL feature for how trial-and-error heavy the special stages are.

[DaN]

2 hours ago, Red Hot Jack said:

While it's true it would be easy profit. I am not sure a full remake of the classic games is a good idea, would the fans like that? I would rather have remasters with new features and more options. They need ti capitalize on those, the charm is there with the original sprites, it's not like the SA series that aged poorly graphically. That said I would like a new classic 2D game with an all new style.

What I’m saying is same engine and same gameplay but with new drawings and hd sprites. Think of the revamped Crash remake.

Streets of Rage 4 does the same thing, keeping the same core gameplay with some other things added.

Sega not doing this is almost criminal. Sonic 1, 2 and CD have already been remastered beyond perfection, are u telling me that a collecion of just one new quick redo of an old game not yet remastered (S3&K) among some animations and a good looking menu is the best we could hope for? Nah. 

Streets of Rage 4 did a fantastic job, with a low budget and being a far less known franchise.

As of 2022 Sonic is possibly in the best spot he has ever been in his virtual life span, and moves a big load of money. 
Ok, pixel art and retro is cool, keep the Taxman remastered within the package along with the vanilla games, but give us a freaking “HD Mode”. 
(even something like this would be sufficient).

This way you can ask for 40 dollars or even more. This collection is worth 20 Dollars (and I’m stretching it). 

 

Mania was fine because it was basically fan made, but on ORIGINS we have SEGA and Sonic Team directly involved. Paramount has proved to be far more competent in capitalizing on our blue hedgehog.

 

Btw I’m quite sad about it. I’ll probably buy this collection just to support the animation and to replay S3 after a long time but c’mon, this is not remotely enough and we all know it deep inside, whether we want to admit it or not.

[VO.SUPER]

Edit: Turns out I missed the post for these. Whoops.

[SatAMhog]

$40 seems a little steep for a collection of games that they're not even releasing physically.  The fact that Christian Whitehead is involved in the remaster of these games is great but honestly, if they can't even spend the money to release these games physically then what's the point of pre-ordering?  I'll wait until there's an actual physical game to buy(if one even comes out :P).  I can't believe Sega didn't learn their lesson from Mania...

[Zaysho]

Even after collecting my thoughts and reining in my cynicism toward this project, I still find myself completely confused by the messaging and the weird need to just nickel and dime people over random features that sound like they should be in the base game. Like, fuck's sake, we've got SOUND TEST DLC? The "Digital Deluxe" sounds like it's the bulk of the content you'd actually want, why give us this weird illusion of choice? The whole thing just looks weird when about a month ago Konami announced a (I grant, emulated, not native port) collection of classic TMNT games, with a slew of content, variants, etc.. Yeah, the "collector's edition" is overpriced shit, but it doesn't have anything that looks like actual game content being sold at a premium. This should be a slam dunk for crying out loud and they still have to do something stupid (never mind the shitty DRM situation).

I get there's been a huge drought on Sonic content for so long, but Sega's practically just handing us a glass of saltwater at this point the way they present these things.

[shdowhunt60]

11 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

Even after collecting my thoughts and reining in my cynicism toward this project, I still find myself completely confused by the messaging and the weird need to just nickel and dime people over random features that sound like they should be in the base game. Like, fuck's sake, we've got SOUND TEST DLC? The "Digital Deluxe" sounds like it's the bulk of the content you'd actually want, why give us this weird illusion of choice? The whole thing just looks weird when about a month ago Konami announced a (I grant, emulated, not native port) collection of classic TMNT games, with a slew of content, variants, etc.. Yeah, the "collector's edition" is overpriced shit, but it doesn't have anything that looks like actual game content being sold at a premium. This should be a slam dunk for crying out loud and they still have to do something stupid (never mind the shitty DRM situation).

I get there's been a huge drought on Sonic content for so long, but Sega's practically just handing us a glass of saltwater at this point the way they present these things.

It does seem like they put everything behind a $5 just as an excuse to make an upsell, but it frankly makes the base version look incomplete. The fact that they're not doing a physical release either and the game is shipping with Denuvo on Steam really chafes as well. Like, SEGA steadfastly clinging on to shipping absolutely everything with Denuvo feels super tone deaf considering how successful the Steam Deck is right now? I'm pretty sure Denuvo still doesn't work on Linux.

No physical edition is really weird? Like didn't Mania sell a bunch of physical copies? Aren't a huge portion of Switch sales physical releases? Surely SEGA wants to court that audience? This isn't even just greed at this point, this is just weird.

[LegoFedora]

10 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Like, SEGA steadfastly clinging on to shipping absolutely everything with Denuvo feels super tone deaf considering how successful the Steam Deck is right now?

It's weirder when you look back and see that they removed it from mania. They know people hate Denuvo, what are they accomplishing by adding it?

It can't be to prevent piracy for games they themselves give you the rom for if you buy the genesis classics version off steam. It's in the files and not even hidden. I hope denuvo is only there to incentivse early sales and once the game releases and they get their pre-order money, it gets removed.

[shdowhunt60]

20 minutes ago, LegoFedora said:

It's weirder when you look back and see that they removed it from mania. They know people hate Denuvo, what are they accomplishing by adding it?

It can't be to prevent piracy for games they themselves give you the rom for if you buy the genesis classics version off steam. It's in the files and not even hidden. I hope denuvo is only there to incentivse early sales and once the game releases and they get their pre-order money, it gets removed.

They tend to remove Denuvo games like a year post-release, but only if a game is popular enough? Sonic Forces and Team Sonic Racing still have Denuvo for example.

[LegoFedora]

5 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

They tend to remove Denuvo games like a year post-release, but only if a game is popular enough? Sonic Forces and Team Sonic Racing still have Denuvo for example.

I don't think popularity determines whether Denuvo stays or not, Persona 4 Golden still has Denuvo on it and that game sells extremely well (as far as I know). I think it was only removed from mania because of the massive outcry for it, and the teams working on it also advocating for it.

Sega trying to pin Denuvo as the devs idea only to get told to fuck off probably didn't help matters either.