Sonic the Hedgehog 4

[jeremycarrier]

Its not that I'm against the idea of cutscenes in Sonic, its just that 95% of the time they're incredibly juvenile, unfunny, and have really annoying voice acting. Just because your a cute furry character in the main role, doesn't mean you have to follow that template. Ratchet and Clank have great characters, good voice acting, and a funny script. Mario talked way too damn much in Mario vs Donkey Kong, so in Super Mario Galaxy he doesn't talk at all, and that story worked fine.

[FeathersMcGraw]

What? if were talking about solid releases here, I hardly see the sales potentially of what you saying (at least in respect to the wii), given the lack of platforming games on PS3/360 (more so the 360) and what seems to be of interset on said consoles. If its downloadable for XBL and PSN, well thats another story.

The sales of 06 and continued success of the XBLA re-releases of the classics does suggest that there is sales potential for the games on said platforms.

I never said it was redudant. But having a bigger market is in noway irrelevant. Far from it in fact. If you have a larger market potentiall intereted in said game compared to a smaller market in another, obviously the chances of you selling more money on that console increase. I don't expect for example a game like Carnival Games too sell what it did on the Wii (3 million) on say the 360 or PS3, because that type of market isn't as abundant on those consoles. I'm not saying the former is redundant, but so say the size of the market is irrelevant is a bit off in my opinion.

Not irrelevant to the bigger picture (obviously it would be completely idiotic to ignore the biggest market), but irrelevant to the viability of a 360/PS3 release. The fact that the Wii has a bigger market in no way negates the viability of a 360/PS3 title, especially when you consider that multiple titles for multiple systems are likely to be in development at any given time. It makes far more financial sense to spread the Sonic series to the widest range of platforms possible rather than focus on one specific console, regardless of whether it has the largest market for the games or not. Why put all your eggs in one basket?

The same reason, why Sega will make more sports games with Mario and Sonic, then a platformer. Cheaper development costs, and so more money can go into marketing (an understanding of the market there targeting) and advertisement and hence more money.

To quote your original post...

What Wentos said doesn't make much financial sense. Why make the HD versions anyway, when you can put ll your resources into the Wii version, which you know for a fact will sell the most copies and make you much more money? You shouldn't have to recoporate for losses. Unless of course, they just want to do it solely on the basis of fanservice.

You were saying that Sega should essentially drop support for all other platforms and focus soley on the Wii, which would be very silly for reasons I already mentioned. The point I made was that Sega can put minimal effort into Wii releases (ie. Black Knight) and still make a considerable amount of profit, if people are going to lap it up regardless then what's the point giving it more development resources?

Edited September 11, 2009 by FeathersMcGraw

[turbojet]

Its not that I'm against the idea of cutscenes in Sonic, its just that 95% of the time they're incredibly juvenile, unfunny, and have really annoying voice acting. Just because your a cute furry character in the main role, doesn't mean you have to follow that template. Ratchet and Clank have great characters, good voice acting, and a funny script. Mario talked way too damn much in Mario vs Donkey Kong, so in Super Mario Galaxy he doesn't talk at all, and that story worked fine.

Ratchet and Clank is an excellent example of why VA would be great. Ratchet's character was defined by that. The first games he was arrogant and cocky. Then he grew into a more heroic and bold character. His VA portrayed him excellently. As for Mario, does he have a character? And could you say Galaxy was an actual story or just another romp of adventure for Mario. Also, I disagree with Sonic cutscenes not being great. I am not sure about Black Knight, but Sonic Unleashed portrayed him excellently. He moved and acted like a cartoon for the first time in a videogame. Plus, the cutscenes were the best part of the game says those who didn't like the game. So why wouldn't the idea ever work again? It seems like some fans are again being too picky and demanding.

Edited September 11, 2009 by turbojet

[Marcello]

If you(people in general) think the cut scenes are the best part of a game, then you shouldn't buy it. You can just watch the videos on youtube or something...

Edited September 11, 2009 by MarcelloF

[turbojet]

If you(people in general) think the cut scenes are the best part of a game, then they shouldn't buy it. They can just watch the videos on youtube or something...

I didn't say people in general or even me.

[Marcello]

I didn't say people in general or even me.

I said in general to show that I didn't mean you. I meant the people who felt that way.

[blackherox]

You were saying that Sega should essentially drop support for all other platforms and focus soley on the Wii,

This is probably were the confusion is. If you read what wentos said (and given what I said above) my response was questioning why Sega would make a Wii version solely to recorporate their loses from the HD versions, when they could ya know not make any HD versions in the first place. That is what doesn't make sense. Why make things that you think or know will be losses in the first place?

Edited September 11, 2009 by blackherox

[Remy]

that's probably because wentos was a fake.

[blackherox]

that's probably because wentos was a fake.

Agreed.

[turbojet]

I said in general to show that I didn't mean you. I meant the people who felt that way.

I know but I already pointed out the people who felt that way:The people who didn't like Sonic Unleashed.

[ShadiWulf]

I don't know, the way SEGA has their Sonic games priced makes it seems like what wentos said is right.

Wii version same price as the HD versions(HD which clearly cost more to make) PS2 version... 30 dollars, which was the same as the wii version.

[Indigo Rush]

Either way, if there's a PC version, I'll gladly buy a new laptop. (If it's cheap enough)

Edited September 11, 2009 by Particle Man

[Leonard]

Its not that I'm against the idea of cutscenes in Sonic, its just that 95% of the time they're incredibly juvenile, unfunny, and have really annoying voice acting.

Sure this may be the case for many titles out there, but as turbojet pointed out, there have indeed been times where

voice acting and cutscenes have enhanced, or were even mandatory to the experience. Sonic Unleashed is one of those, because it helped with ridding Sonic of his 4kids esque two-dimensional image (exaggerated, I know), that Sonic X or Sonic Heroes portrayed for example.

He felt more natural and more like the character we know from the 90s.

Sonic Adventure 2 is another example, simply because the cutscenes were so mandatory for the story. Of course they were mostly horribly edited and slightly stupid, but they had some moments of true genius in them from time to time, too.

What I'm trying to say, is that the cutscenes are a risky thing, but not entirely impossible.

[SuperLink]

I think Wentos is a fake too.

There's no way someone with that much info can do that and not be found out. He'd have to be a pretty high "rank" within Sega to see all these secrets.

Personally I think there will be a Wii version too.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

This is probably were the confusion is. If you read what wentos said (and given what I said above) my response was questioning why Sega would make a Wii version solely to recorporate their loses from the HD versions, when they could ya know not make any HD versions in the first place. That is what doesn't make sense. Why make things that you think or know will be losses in the first place?

I thought Wentos explained that. Didn't he explicitly say they're making the HD games, even though they know they'll make a loss, to improve Sonic's public image for the future, in an effort to make him a credible force in gaming again that even bitter hardcore retrofags will like buy? As you say, they've already got the casual children gamers, but if they can get critical acclaim too and win back the skeptical old guard, that's more profit in the long term.

DISCLAIMER: I don't think Wentos is legit either, but even if he's not, he's clearly predicted well, and this line of reasoning does make sense.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

CCS CSS pointed out that you can skip over most cutscenes in the game so there isn't any point argueing and complaining over what you can skip over.

God damn typos!

Anyway, if people can't find the will to raise their finger and press down on a simple button to spare them from cutscenes, then they are the laziest sloths in existence. It's 2009, in an age where pressing buttons should be a natural born instinct, especially when you're pressing several of them in half a second.

A damn 1-year-old can press a button with ease, and they're already upstaging these guys.

Mentioning the name Eggman is illegal.

Then apparently people no comprende how it's the same character.

Robotnik is just as ridiculous of a name as Eggman.

Edited September 11, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Remy]

Then apparently people no comprende how it's the same character.

Robotnik is just as ridiculous of a name as Eggman.

People associate Robotnik with the ginger cold hearted bastard depicted in Satam and Eggman with the lovable eccentric goof seen nowadays, hence the distinction.

[Marcello]

Eggmans always been Eggman in Japan,right? That why it was called Death Egg. Or am I just totally stupid?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

People associate Robotnik with the ginger cold hearted bastard depicted in Satam and Eggman with the lovable eccentric goof seen nowadays, hence the distinction.

That still doesn't excuse the fact that both names refer to the same character in general, and people just can't seem to call him what they want without getting pissy over a simple name change despite that.

Just call him Robotnik and it's referring to the same guy as the person calling him Eggman, it's really that simple. Nothing trivial about it.

Edited September 11, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[turbojet]

People associate Robotnik with the ginger cold hearted bastard depicted in Satam and Eggman with the lovable eccentric goof seen nowadays, hence the distinction.

Who cares how the fans view Eggman/Robotnik? The point is that they are the same character and he even flatout says that he prefers to be called Robotnik and Eggman is just a moniker. How is Eggman today even less cold-hearted or more goofy than Eggman back then? Wasn't he the Elmer Fudd to Sonic's Bugs Bunny in one cartoon series? Plus didn't he almost kill Sonic in a cunning attempt in Sonic Adventure? It's just pure favortism towards which gen you perfer thats all.

[DSP001]

I like the name eggman, something about is so simple and is jsut fun to hear people say, not that I hate robotnick but it feels odd nowadays for me considering he's called eggman in most medias.

Anyway on to my opinion about the game, I'm sure that hundreds of retro fans went YEAHHHH in unison, and while not a bad thing, I'm slightly disappointed cos I was reallly looking forward to how the hybrid style would evolve or get better because I sure as heck enjoyed the Day levels in unleashed, it was the best of both worlds, and in commiting to 2D makes it feel like Sega have just gone fuck it and given into the demand of the nagging retro fans who think ZOMG 2D IS DA BEST, which while it was good is given wayyyy to much credit than it deserves, I mean its like they're comopletely ignoring sonic adventure which last time I checked when released did relatively in critics eyes and I for one, dare I say it, enjoyed the adventure games more so than the 2D games, while they hold a place in my heart, I enjoyed the likes of SA2 more so than the megadrive games.

But for now I'll wait and see how it turns out, I hope they don't disappoint now that they've given in.

[Indigo Rush]

Who cares how the fans view Eggman/Robotnik? The point is that they are the same character and he even flatout says that he prefers to be called Robotnik and Eggman is just a moniker. How is Eggman today even less cold-hearted or more goofy than Eggman back then? Wasn't he the Elmer Fudd to Sonic's Bugs Bunny in one cartoon series? Plus didn't he almost kill Sonic in a cunning attempt in Sonic Adventure? It's just pure favortism towards which gen you perfer thats all.

Actually, he prefers the moniker Eggman. He never really says "call me Robotnik, plz" in any game or continuity thereof.

And why bring up the cartoon continuity when we're talking about the games?

[Marcello]

If he prefers Robotnik, why does he call his land Eggmanland?

[Leonard]

Anyway on to my opinion about the game, I'm sure that hundreds of retro fans went YEAHHHH in unison, and while not a bad thing, I'm slightly disappointed cos I was reallly looking forward to how the hybrid style would evolve or get better because I sure as heck enjoyed the Day levels in unleashed, it was the best of both worlds, and in commiting to 2D makes it feel like Sega have just gone fuck it and given into the demand of the nagging retro fans who think ZOMG 2D IS DA BEST, which while it was good is given wayyyy to much credit than it deserves, I mean its like they're comopletely ignoring sonic adventure which last time I checked when released did relatively in critics eyes and I for one, dare I say it, enjoyed the adventure games more so than the 2D games, while they hold a place in my heart, I enjoyed the likes of SA2 more so than the megadrive games.

Exactly. I for one am probably more of a fan of SA1 and 2 than of the 2D games. They could have pulled it off, but eventually they just gave up after countless ridiculously stupid attempts.

It's just a shame nostalgia is such an overly powerful force.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Leonard

[FeathersMcGraw]

It does raise an interesting point though, if Sega are indeed trying to target the Retro crowd as the trailer and interview insinuate, I wonder which moniker they'll use? I suppose it would make sense to use Robotnik considering that would fit with the games target audience, or will the just simply stick with Eggman? Or maybe both ala SA? It's ultimately a superficial thing but it will be interesting to see just how far they're willing to take the whole classic-vibe thing.

Also, it's been said time and time again, but this game in all likelyhood will have no effect on the main 3D series, you'll get your cake, but let the Retrofans have their's as well.

(OTT: Note how I didn't call them "Retrofags"? In all honesty the only thing is it does is create futher aminosity in the fandom, as well as making people sound incredibly childish, it's not doing anyone any favours.)

Edited September 11, 2009 by FeathersMcGraw