Sonic the Hedgehog 4

[Phos]

You try to end it, yet someone wants to come up and restart the drama. Heh, typical.

Hey, I was responding to you. Also, less condescending, please, it bugs me.

Uh, so? That still doesn't change the fact the Robotnik and Eggman are the same character.

Nice Straw man. I neither stated nor implied that that wasn't the case, and that point isn't particularly related to my argument.

Why the hell should people be that bothered over a minor name change if they can still call him Robotnik since they called him Eggman in 1999 and still refer to the same character?

You know what? Here's a better idea, how about the people who prefer "Robotnik" get over it and call him Robotik when they're the same charater. Because they haven't gone around forcing people to call him Eggman if they don't want to.

I can imagine that Sega has actually released a good Sonic game in the last 8 or so years, or hasn't embarrassed the character every time they've tried to tell a story in the same time span, but that doesn't mean that's how it happened.

Tell me you're being sarcastic here...

Please tell me you're not seriously suggesting that the resolution to my complaint is denial or cognitive dissonance.

SUPER SMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASH BROTHERRRRRRRRRRS!

Those guys make the Sonic fanbase look like a group of classy aristocrats.

Nintendo removed a great deal of depth from the game in spite of tournament players being the ones who would play it for the longest.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Phos

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Hey, I was responding to you.

Then you may not have read my later comments when I wanted others to drop the subject, as knowing the outcome it wouldn't been Eggman/Robotnik Debate #626

Also, less condescending, please, it bugs me.

As you wish...but don't tempt me in the future, as I can't guarantee it then.

Nice Straw man. I neither stated nor implied that that wasn't the case, and that point isn't particularly related to my argument.

Uh, thanks.

But it's related to my argument in that it's still the same character since 1991 and those who are making a fuss about it could simply not care about it and call him Robotnik despite the name change. Everyone should know full and well that it refers to the same character, and a simple name change back is hardly going to fix a problem that's not even there.

I can imagine that Sega has actually released a good Sonic game in the last 8 or so years, or hasn't embarrassed the character every time they've tried to tell a story in the same time span, but that doesn't mean that's how it happened.

Now what on earth does releasing a good game in the last 8 years or the character's embarassment in stories have anything to do with what we're talking about?

His name could've still been Robotnik back then, but that certainly wouldn't change anything on how he is now.

Please tell me you're not seriously suggesting that the resolution to my complaint is denial or cognitive dissonance.

Actually, it's more so to do with not giving a fuck over the names at all.

The argument over the whole thing is nothing short of ridiculous in the fact that both names refer to the same character, that the name will hardly change anything if it's changed back or even mentioned, and that Sonic Team couldn't give half a rat's ass which name the fans call him. They're not doing anything to force the name "Eggman" down anyone's throat, so why are people acting like that when they can easily blow it off and call him Robotnik.

All those people have to do is just refer to him as Robotnik, problem solved. People still know who they're talking about and we can all move on.

Edited September 11, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Hero of Legend]

Why do people keep saying the Wii and PS2 versions of Unleashed are bad while the HD versions are amazing as a fact?

Fact is, the lower-end versions are averaged higher:

http://www.metacritic.com/search/process?sort=relevance&termtype=all&ts=Sonic+Unleashed&ty=3&button=search

I for one enjoyed the Wii version. It could've used more polish (water section of Adabat Day, ugh) and some more graphical touches (shame they couldn't get HDR into it but they first did for BK).

I DO wonder though...

What if Dimps made a Wii version of '06 for the Wii's launch with SR still in early '07? Or hell made '06 Wii a summer release to add a thing non-existant in the HD versions; polish.

I mean they did this for Unleashed, what if they did it originally for '06? How would it have turned out?

Probably horrible anyway, it wouldn't have changed the horrid story and voice acting. But would Dimps have made it superior in controls and such?

We'll never know.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Hero of Legend

[JamieDawg]

Can we stop talking about reviews on past Sonic games and some BS talk about weather Eggman should be called Robotnik and focus on the actual topic for once? Seriously, it's getting really annoying.

EDIT: In before flamewarz SEGA still do call him Dr. Ivo Robotnik. At least in the Sonic Unleashed manual they called him Dr. Ivo Robotnik "Eggman".

Edited September 11, 2009 by Tizo Teh Hedgie

[Solly]

Why do people keep saying the Wii and PS2 versions of Unleashed are bad while the HD versions are amazing as a fact?

Fact is, the lower-end versions are averaged higher:

They're only higher by six percent. That's not a whole lot, especially considering the fact that the HD versions are likely to be judged by stricter standards. Moreover, nobody really cares about what critics think.

People say the SD versions of Unleashed are bad because...well, they're watered down. There's less levels, less features, and supposedly (note that I say "supposedly", I have not played both versions so I don't have my own opinion on this) the levels in the Wii version are more boring.

Again, this is just what I've heard. I'm not jumping to the defense of the HD versions here, or bashing the Wii version. Just trying to explain.

Sega have some kind of event happening on the 18th so hey, hopefully we'll see it soon.

Do they? What event would that be?

[mikeblastdude]

(coming into this topic a bit late)

Wow, I'm definitely excited for this one! For the record I actually like most of the newer games, but I've really missed the "old-school" Sonic. If this actually does play just like the Genesis games in HD, then this might really be something special. I'm surprised to see some of the negativity around some places on the net about this announcement, isn't this exactly what the vast majority of gamers on the internet have been asking for? Heh, oh well, I'm being pretty optimistic about this anyway. Go Sega, make us proud!

[bolt7]

NEEDLEMOUSE

/gasp

I'm secretly hoping the original Needlemouse design will appear in the game in some shape or form, whether it be a look back at Sonic's history with images of the concept art or he is a separate character that's out to get Sonic for stealing his spotlight.

[Vasco]

I'm a little behind on this, but surely I can't be the only one who noticed right away it was the original Sonic title ring in the trailer? Seems quite obvious to me.

I'm trying to keep low expectations but I'm pretty hyped still. Who do you guys think will be in charge of the music?

[Sean]

Needs more Masato Nakamura and Spencer Nilsen.

Chances are they'll hire the usual suspects - Tomoya Ohtani, Fumie Kumatani, et al. I can't imagine them going through that much effort to recollect much of the original staff members for this game, either.

[Candescence]

Nintendo removed a great deal of depth from the game in spite of tournament players being the ones who would play it for the longest.

By removing glitches, no less, that everyone else were a tad annoyed with.

Edited September 12, 2009 by The Sniper

[JaidynReiman]

Can we stop talking about reviews on past Sonic games and some BS talk about weather Eggman should be called Robotnik and focus on the actual topic for once? Seriously, it's getting really annoying.

EDIT: In before flamewarz SEGA still do call him Dr. Ivo Robotnik. At least in the Sonic Unleashed manual they called him Dr. Ivo Robotnik "Eggman".

O_o

Really? The last game I know of that the name "Ivo" was ever referenced was in Sonic the Hedgehog (and not the 2006 game, mind you).

[bolt7]

O_o

Really? The last game I know of that the name "Ivo" was ever referenced was in Sonic the Hedgehog (and not the 2006 game, mind you).

Yeah, it says 'Doctor Eggman (A.K.A Dr. Robotnik)' I believe. No 'Ivo' though.

[Sean]

Really smells like on-topic around here!

Less name schtick, more Needlemousing. Oh and please no backseat modding, just for a future reference. Not referring to anybody in particular, but I'm aware of how crazy things get here.

[JaidynReiman]

Yeah, it says 'Doctor Eggman (A.K.A Dr. Robotnik)' I believe. No 'Ivo' though.

Thanks for the correction. He's always called Robotnik in the manual, usually, but "Ivo" has never appeared since Sonic 1.

[Phos]

Spencer Nilsen

I was actually thinking about this yesterday, how it would be cool if he was involved in the soundtrack. I'm interested to find out precisely is making this game. Is it mostly going to be the same team, or a new one we haven't heard about before? For some reason, I can't shake the impression that this game might be being developed in America, though I don't have much of a reason for it right now. I'm sure we'll find out about that in a while as well.

I'm also hoping for black eyes.

By removing glitches, no less, that everyone else were a tad annoyed with.

Wavedashing was only the tip of the iceberg, and they weren't really that bothered by it's removal on it's own. The problem was that for practically it's entire first year as a competitive game the best strategy was to spam projectiles. Once that strategy was overcome, no one really cared about it any more. Hackers have figured out how to re enable it, but Brawl+ (a set of codes to make the game faster and more competitive) doesn't include it by choice. The only real differences are balancing tweaks and increased hit stun to makes combos something that actually happened.

And just so you know, the team making Melee knew wavedashing was present before release.

It also made the game much more unbalanced, as several characters who were previously viable are now nigh on useless and there are fewer tournament viable characters in total. Some people will go as far as to say there's only two. The reasons for this are actually pretty interesting, IMO, if you'd like me to summarize them, I could make a thread.

The situation with Smash Bros is actually somewhat comparable to Sonic's. Both casual players and tournament style players enjoyed Melee, but Brawl appeals to the tournament style players much less than Melee.

[Matriculated]

I'm sure we'll see it soon. Don't forget Tokyo Games Show is this month.

[Tornado]

Notice: I haven't actually read anything about this other than the trailer and the Gamespot news, so correct me if I'm missing some amazing new info.

I have to say, I must be the only one who is saddened by this. Most pressingly, I'm very scared that it will blow. Not in the sense that STH '06 blew, but in the sense that "its 2D so its leik teh classix!;" which allowed people to gobble up some of the more awful handheld games and say, with a straight face, that they were like the 16-bit games.

I remember very clearly the sadness I felt when journalists throwing out 8s and 9s to Sonic Advance 3 and the first Sonic Rush mostly because they were "just like the classics," when they were in fact two mediocre-at-best-and-complete-shit-without-rose-tinted-specs games that play like Sonic 1 about as much as Sonic Adventure 2's mech levels did. Because of this pessimism towards the Dimps handheld games (barring SA1) I'm also skeptical as to whether Sonic Team can actually put together a game in the vein of the classics when they have shown a clear misunderstanding (probably because the loudest parts of the fanbase don't know anymore) of what the old games actually were about.

At the same time, I worry what will happen if it is good.

By removing glitches, no less, that everyone else were a tad annoyed with.

I'm fairly certain that I've read that Wavedashing was intentional, Spike Bug style. There's also the lovely idea of the random trip, which I personally think is about as good of an idea as a Hadouken that occasionally doesn't work.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Tornado

[Remy]

@Robotnik: I liked it best in Sonic Adventure, where he was Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik in moth manual and script, it was a nice compromise between both characters.

@SSB: Might be worth it to make a seperate topic to discuss the specifics of the Smash Bros series' mechanics, lads.

At the same time, I worry what will happen if it is good.

This worries me too- we're used to dealing with such mediocre games, how on earth will we handle a decent game!?

[Meow]

Quite simply we won't - because we'll all still be split over it anyway haha.

edit: The only difference would be the perception of the people from outside our little planet.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Thirteen

[Remy]

I don't think the fanbase can realistically a good game. The sonicverse would implode.

Or go back to arguing about voice actors, cutscenes and character names. :3

[Tornado]

This worries me too- we're used to dealing with such mediocre games, how on earth will we handle a decent game!?

Not even remotely what I meant. We've been "struggling" through 10 years of 3D Sonic games, with arguably none of them working quite right. So lets say this 2D Sonic game with full financial support of Sega and "main series" status manages to be good. Lets say this game instantly revitalizes the franchise all by itself. The side effect that I can see is tons of hipster asshole "journalists" going "I told you so" in unison towards the concept of 3D Sonic games, as if the very idea itself is flawed.

And while I don't think it will particularly matter towards a fanbase as completely insane as the Sonic one, I can see the problem being even worse within; perhaps further defining and dividing the retrofags and newfags groups even more than before.

Quite frankly, I would rather there have been a uniformly good 3D Sonic game before Sega went back and made a completely 2D one. Would have made things much simpler.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Tornado

[Badnik Zero]

The game will become canonized, and there'll be lynchings if someone tries to slander it, is what could happen.

Civil war, famine, plague, anarchy! Where is your hedgehog now?!

[Meow]

And while I don't think it will particularly matter towards a fanbase as completely insane as the Sonic one, I can see the problem being even worse within.

I don't think it would get too much worse, the only thing is that the tables would have turned and for once it'd be the more modern fan wishing to get their style of play back, instead of the way it was prior to this announcement with classic fans. It definitely won't matter in our fandom though, we'll always be fighting and always be split over everything except for agreeing that we all cannot agree - but then again I'm sure someone will disagree with that.

Or go back to arguing about voice actors, cutscenes and character names. :3

And this too haha.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Thirteen

[Solid SOAP]

To be honest, I want this game to do good and have Sonic games after it follow suit in terms of style and the fact that they're 2D. The Sonic series is in desperate need of an "image", each game looks so radically different from one another, there's no distinct area that you can point out and say "Oh yeah, that'd be in a Sonic game" anymore, unless you count the countless Green Hill remakes and such. If this mainly classic style game does well, SEGA will probably make more games done in the same style and Sonic will be (Slightly) more recognizable and iconic, I think. I mean, we have so many games doing so many different things in a million different styles; some games look cartoony, others realistic. Others have childish and corny plots, others have dark and brooding plots. Some games have you running as fast as possible to get to the goal, others have you hunting for treasure and shooting things in a mech, you get the idea. It would be pretty nice if Sonic became the "2D-only franchise" or atleast had some kind of name for itself that doesn't involve the fact that nearly every game after SA2 has been critically panned.

Pretty much I just want the games to stop being so radically different from one another in aestetic design and gameplay, I would really like it if SEGA gave the "main" Sonic games one specific type of gameplay, leaving the gimmicks such as Werehog and guns to spin-offs. This game seems like the perfect opportunity to start doing that.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Solid SOAP

[ArtFenix]

I don't think Sonic should stay 2D. 3D Sonic games are pretty unique as well. Sonic should be in 2D and in 3D. There always should be both 2D and 3D games. In my opinion, a full return to the classics is a huge step back.

Damn it, Sega, give me more info!

Edited September 12, 2009 by ArtFenix