Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

28 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Well... since we're arguing over general opinion of the game again, just throwing it out there, here's that poll again since it's now 250 votes strong:

http://www.strawpoll.me/12871059/r

(Of course feel free to add your vote if you haven't already here: http://www.strawpoll.me/12871059/ )

Many disappointments / very minor disappoinments are near neck-and-neck as ever at the top, but there is significantly more of both them and "there are major disappointments that will need fixing" than there are people who like everything they've seen.  Overall I'd consider that an air of disappointment.

Of course, worth mentioning too, that it's still only a small minority who have written off the game completely until an unlikely further notice.

I feel that's a bit misleading regarding the air of disappointment.

I mean, yes, there's disappointment galore, but at the same time, there is an air of optimism with the two leading percentages there despite that.

[Kintor]

8 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

And yet you couldn't even link to one place... or one person to back this up.

Lol.

I'd rather not give you the opportunity to write another editorial, denouncing those people on the frontpage here.

It should at least  please you that gamers beyond the Sonic fanbase are talking positively about 3D Sonic games again. This is the first step towards building a stronger and more numerous Sonic fanbase.

[StaticMania]

Stronger and more numerous? Is the Sonic fanbase suppose to be some kind of parasite now?

 

It's probably really nice that people are talking kindly about Sonic Hedgehog, but Forces hasn't really shown much to be positive about. So...it's mixed?

[Bowbowis]

42 minutes ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

*Diatribe*

You forgot the part where you can't play as the old characters because we still need to nail down Sonic's gameplay, even though we've been using the boost for a decade now and have made zero effort to improve on it since its debut.  Also no, we can't slap a Shadow skin on it to appease people who just want to play as someone other than Sonic because... fuck you, reasons.

[Badnik Mechanic]

10 minutes ago, Kintor said:

It should at least  please you that gamers beyond the Sonic fanbase are talking positively about 3D Sonic games again. This is the first step towards building a stronger and more numerous Sonic fanbase.

Saying the same shit over and over != support for your argument.

[Chris Knopps]

42 minutes ago, Bowbowis said:

You forgot the part where you can't play as the old characters because we still need to nail down Sonic's gameplay, even though we've been using the boost for a decade now and have made zero effort to improve on it since its debut.  Also no, we can't slap a Shadow skin on it to appease people who just want to play as someone other than Sonic because... fuck you, reasons.

I'm a guy who thinks SA and SA2 were the right steps in making multiple characters worthwhile with game play that defined and improved their characters as well as making them unique in a sensible/reasonable way that fit their qualities in ways that were different yet still fast paced and kept you on the move in their own ways and punished you for not staying on your toes but...

F-anything that isn't just Sonic with different motions and movesets... Who needs that when you can just play the exact same thing with a different face save for some ledge or path to reach?

Yep...

Edit

Don't get me wrong, this type of stuff is great for 2D games like the Genesis, Advance, Rush and Mania titles, but in the big stuff, the main feast, the 3D projects, it'd be nice if there was more to multiple characters than that.

[Kintor]

1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

Stronger and more numerous? Is the Sonic fanbase suppose to be some kind of parasite now?

Nah, not a parasite... more like a self-replicating memetic virus. The Sonic fanbase is an idea, one that is driven to constantly propogate itself by getting new members to join. Strictly speaking the potential size of the Sonic fanbase is only limited by the population of people alive on Earth at any given time.

Heck, if we can get enough Sonic fans together we can start calling ourselves an organised belief system like 'Jediism' on government census forms.

It’s how we've survived several years without a major Sonic game virtually unscathed, if anything the Sonic fanbase in 2017 is bigger and crazier than ever. Sonic Forces has just kicked 'recruitment' into overdrive.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

2 hours ago, Kintor said:

I think its absurd how treat the idea of optmism as something that needs to quantified like an account or otherwise it doesn't exist. As I've already explianed, you wont find equivilents to SSMB since active forums are already a rare concept on the internet and getting rarer each day. What I'm talking about is the flow of conservstion. A conversation that only exists thanks to Sonic Forces and which is steadily restoring the repuation of 3D Sonic games in the process.

Hogfather has never once asked you to link to a message board, just to any place online where "hype" for Forces is visible. A good example I can think of might be a blog post from a fairly mainstream general gaming website which shows a lot of obvious hype accompanied with a comments section in which a lot of the comments are very clearly hyped.

[Waveshocker Sigma]

1 hour ago, Kintor said:

I'd rather not give you the opportunity to write another editorial, denouncing those people on the frontpage here.

It should at least  please you that gamers beyond the Sonic fanbase are talking positively about 3D Sonic games again. This is the first step towards building a stronger and more numerous Sonic fanbase.

Dude.

http://gematsu.com/2017/04/sonic-forces-first-classic-sonic-gameplay-screenshots

A link. That's all anyone asked of you. A single link. It didn't even matter where it was from. Was that so goddamn hard?

Or is it because no matter where you go, there isn't a single site that's overwhelmingly positive to support your argument? Cause I just went and did a search for you while you were too busy rambling on instead of just doing the thing and from what I've seen, you can't find any "overwhelmingly positive" discussion because people are either against the game, mixed on it, or most of all not even talking about it.

This forum may seem like it's wrapped up in a massive bubble of negativity to you, but it's not the single solitary place on the entire web that has worries over this game. I'm mostly positive towards the game, but I'm not letting that cloud my sight of how things actually are with it. This game is a mess. It's marketing is a mess, or would be if it wasn't so nonexistent. It's message and presentation on what it's supposed to be and who it's supposed to be for is a muddled mess that leaving people mostly unsure, dissatisfied and/or completely uninterested.

Why? Well, from what I've gathered, Sonic Forces either has:

A. Nothing to draw in certain parts of the 3D crowd, leaving them dissatisfied.

B. What the other side of the 3D crowd wants but with nothing to show it's been tweaked or improved from how it was previously, leaving them unsure.

And C: An inferior version of Classic's gameplay that the 2D crowd has absolutely no reason to be interested or invested in since they already have a superior alternative coming out much sooner in the form of Sonic Mania, leaving them uninterested.

Add those three things together and you pretty much get the negative and unsure reception the game has here and on most other sites with hardly much to show for positivity.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there IS some haven of thrills and excitement for this game that runs wild, loud and proud somewhere out there. After all, you seem to know where it is.

So tell us. Where do you see this overwhelming positivity? Please, do tell.

[KHCast]

so has this been posted yet? I'm curious what your guys thoughts on this are. It's pretty blunt, but I'd say he has some fair points in general. Essentially what we all know, you can't please every facet of the fanbase without disappointing some group 

[Blacklightning]

Is anyone really asking to satisfy every sect of the Sonic fanbase? I mean, some of them still unironically believe that 06 was a good game, so I feel you kinda have to draw the line somewhere.

I'm not completely sure what the general consensus around here is yet, but I feel that as long they either conglomerate the best of what they have into a single identity or polish the current niche into something amazing rather than settling to be merely "not awful", it won't matter much if certain people boycott the franchise on principles as ridiculous as "it's not Adventure 3" or "his eyes are green".

[Chris Knopps]

20 minutes ago, KHCast said:

so has this been posted yet? I'm curious what your guys thoughts on this are. It's pretty blunt, but I'd say he has some fair points in general. Essentially what we all know, you can't please every facet of the fanbase without disappointing some group 

It's reaching the point where it's best to ask "why bother posting this" since these kinds of videos are a fairly constant thing and more-so with each release.

When it comes to topics like these it's essentially SEGA that have themselves to blame after all of the countless things they've done with the franchise over the years. They created the mess, now they're having to sit and boil in it, and folks are out there trying to pin point the consumers in this and that way for being the villain or the cause of this and that.

If the company had been consistent with the franchise in terms of target/audience, continuity, tone and design, etc, it wouldn't be hard to see Sonic still on top with the likes of Mario who did these very things.

But then, SEGA interprets this kind of feedback as BE MARIO instead of following the staple practices of that franchise.

It's all a matter of consistency, and lack thereof. No point in these rants/discussions about the consumers really.

[Wraith]

42 minutes ago, KHCast said:

so has this been posted yet? I'm curious what your guys thoughts on this are. It's pretty blunt, but I'd say he has some fair points in general. Essentially what we all know, you can't please every facet of the fanbase without disappointing some group 

It's common sense that you can't please everyone. We should have moved passed this a while ago. Most franchises don't please every niche in their fanbase. They don't need to because they please enough people that it doesn't matter.

The actual points the video does make are pretty dumb in their own right. A lot of it is the same defeatist "well sega did what you asked kind of and you still complained so -shrug- guess you'll never be satisfied." attitude that people just kind of throw to shut down criticism about the games. 

 

[Ayliffe]

5 hours ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

Tax (It stops Sonic in the middle of the stage and has him do his taxes). 

...for some reason I now want this to be a thing

[Kintor]

4 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

Hogfather has never once asked you to link to a message board, just to any place online where "hype" for Forces is visible. A good example I can think of might be a blog post from a fairly mainstream general gaming website which shows a lot of obvious hype accompanied with a comments section in which a lot of the comments are very clearly hyped.

With everybody talking to everybody else on shared media platforms you're never going to find a universe opinion. That doesn’t mean you should discount positive comments when you see them, just because something negative and pithy manages the grab the top rated comment. Especially since praise can go unspoken when dealing with an incendiary comment becomes the more pressing matter. Yet as I've said before, the most important thing to take away from all this is the fact that 3D Sonic games are being talked about again. Sonic Forces has brought 3D Sonic games back into mainstream gaming, after being relegated to a joke in recent years. It's not a conversation that has ended yet but the sheer fact that Sonic Forces is being discussed as a credible 3D platformer is enormous progress nonetheless.

3 hours ago, KHCast said:

so has this been posted yet? I'm curious what your guys thoughts on this are. It's pretty blunt, but I'd say he has some fair points in general. Essentially what we all know, you can't please every facet of the fanbase without disappointing some group 

Not usually supportive of these sorts of videos about the Sonic fanbase but this was better than most. I don't think the video was making an argument that the Sonic fanbase is permanently unpleasable. Rather, I think that the intention was that by raising awareness of the faults between the main factions in the Sonic fanbase things can start to improve. It doesn’t hurt to acknowledge the wide variety of views within the Sonic fanbase, even if everybody ends up looking bad in this video.

[Sonikko]

It turned out to be a long post afterall.

 

3 hours ago, KHCast said:

so has this been posted yet? I'm curious what your guys thoughts on this are. It's pretty blunt, but I'd say he has some fair points in general. Essentially what we all know, you can't please every facet of the fanbase without disappointing some group 

I'm so tired of hearing this argument, like it's my fault they can't deliver a quality product.

OH WAIT. Mania exists. While some people are not interested in it, you don't see anyone or close to nobody complaining about it. Because it's a quality product and it didn't actually disappoint.

Forces on the other hand...

I have been a fan for years, since 2003 I think (and I played the classics from start to end relatively recently, when they were released on XBLA, and I loved them, and once I got a grasp of the mechanics I understood why they were cooler and why I liked Adventure more than the other 3D games. Physics. So I'm not speaking out of nostalgia.), maybe even before that. I've taken in any game they cared to put out, saying "Maybe they'll do better the next time", and eventually they did, with every release from Unleashed to Generations getting gradually better in some regard. Then Lost World came around, which I still liked, but it had so many issues that shouldn't have left the design table, proving they didn't understand what they were doing right.

Then Boom. And now? Forces looks like it's Generations just with less thought put behind it. Why shouldn't I complain? I have the right to point out what's wrong in a product I've been shown that I should buy with my money. 

I'm disappointed because I care a lot about this serie, it's been constantly there throughout my 22 years life, and I don't want to stop caring about it because they don't know what makes it good, or don't care enough to make it good. The team behind Sonic should understand their character better than anyone else. The fact that the Mania team is doing better than anything they ever put out in the last 20 years, and on a probably much smaller budget, is puzzling.

I'm a Mario fan too, and guess what, I'm the same person, and I've never been disappointed in a Mario release. The worst I've been through is the New Super Mario games, and even then they're still good games, just not exceptional. Maybe it's because Nintendo knows why they created Mario in the first place and why it worked the way it did in 2D and in 3D, and still keep thinking about how to evolve their character, push the franchise forward and put some actual thought behind their game mechanics, not to make them feel out of place.

Even in the worst regarded title in the Mario serie, Super Mario Sunshine, the main gimmick mechanic is something that's not out of place in a Mario game, it felt at home.

Just look at how many half hassed gameplay styles we had to go through.

Fishing, slow clunky mechas, hunting the emeralds in giant environments that had nothing Sonic-like in their level design, Shadow The Hedgehog labyrinthic level design, every character in 2006, Black Knight, the Werehog, the Wisps in Colours that bothered me to no end, they were not power ups, they were little minigames thrown in your way, and most of the time they were mandatory too. And all of these made up for the biggest part of the game. I just want this to stop and get a good 3D Sonic game. A really good one, not a "just ok" one.

 

EDIT:

If your character does not follow the rules you've set for it to follow, and you have to script the way it moves, you're not making a good game. It's broken by game design logic.

If Sonic can't roll off a ramp on its own, because the physics calculation is wrong, because he's too overpowered, because the level design is not tailored to it and it makes you fly off in the distance, and you have to script that sequence, it's a badly designed level. No excuse for that. I don't care about springs that cancel your forward momentum, they're not great, but ok. I don't care about having the boost (as long as interacting with the terrain is actually meaningful, unlike in the current games), I don't care about classic or modern aesthethics, I'm going as far as saying I don't care if every level is Green Hill Zone, as long as I can control my character, and react to the environment in a concrete way. I don't want to be driven by scripted events in my physics based platformer. It makes no sense whatsoever. 

You can point out "But the modern games are different than the classic ones, if you don't like them for what they are then you should just be a classic fan."

But why should I just be a classic fan? I like the thrill that the highspeed modern games give, is it wrong to want a less scripted 3D game? It's not like I said "Oh Generations sucks, scrap it and make a game I want."

I said "Oh Generations is cool, I hope they keep improving on the formula end eventually feel confident enough to make the game work in an organic way, it'd be way more fun." And they didn't. They took a step back.

 

EDIT 2:

Sonic's scripted ramps = Mario scripted jumps

Imagine a Mario game where everytime you have to hit an enemy or jump from platform to platform, you can't get it wrong. Kinda like the Tomb Raider or Uncharted games do it. You just press the jump button and the game takes control from that moment on, automatically corrects your jump. Does that sound fun? Not to me.

Now that I've mentioned it, the same issues arose in the Tomb Raider fanbase, since the older games used to be platformers in which you had to carefully plan your jumps and learn how the character moved. The modern Tomb Raider games have scripted jumps that you can't miss.

It's the exact same issue we're dealing with, and it bothers those people as much as it bothers us. It's not that we can't be pleased. It's that a game that plays itself is not fun.

[JezMM]

9 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I feel that's a bit misleading regarding the air of disappointment.

I mean, yes, there's disappointment galore, but at the same time, there is an air of optimism with the two leading percentages there despite that.

I guess it depends how you see it.  I'm hoping for a good game in spite of all the design decisions I dislike.  Granted, we can't know the individual thoughts of each voter and I already felt I had split the poll a little too much when I made it.

It was originally made though in response to claims that those who had disappointments with the game were a vocal minority, and for most it was the Generations sequel "everyone" was asking for (hey can we have a link to places where that happened too).

[Dejimon11]

3 hours ago, Kintor said:

With everybody talking to everybody else on shared media platforms you're never going to find a universe opinion. That doesn’t mean you should discount positive comments when you see them, just because something negative and pithy manages the grab the top rated comment. Especially since praise can go unspoken when dealing with an incendiary comment becomes the more pressing matter. Yet as I've said before, the most important thing to take away from all this is the fact that 3D Sonic games are being talked about again. Sonic Forces has brought 3D Sonic games back into mainstream gaming, after being relegated to a joke in recent years. It's not a conversation that has ended yet but the sheer fact that Sonic Forces is being discussed as a credible 3D platformer is enormous progress nonetheless.

 

Based off what exactly? No seriously you really need to provide some proof instead of making baseless claims. 

[Waveshocker Sigma]

 

4 hours ago, Kintor said:

With everybody talking to everybody else on shared media platforms you're never going to find a universe opinion. That doesn’t mean you should discount positive comments when you see them, just because something negative and pithy manages the grab the top rated comment. Especially since praise can go unspoken when dealing with an incendiary comment becomes the more pressing matter. Yet as I've said before, the most important thing to take away from all this is the fact that 3D Sonic games are being talked about again. Sonic Forces has brought 3D Sonic games back into mainstream gaming, after being relegated to a joke in recent years. It's not a conversation that has ended yet but the sheer fact that Sonic Forces is being discussed as a credible 3D platformer is enormous progress nonetheless.

Not usually supportive of these sorts of videos about the Sonic fanbase but this was better than most. I don't think the video was making an argument that the Sonic fanbase is permanently unpleasable. Rather, I think that the intention was that by raising awareness of the faults between the main factions in the Sonic fanbase things can start to improve. It doesn’t hurt to acknowledge the wide variety of views within the Sonic fanbase, even if everybody ends up looking bad in this video.

So, are you gonna answer the question that was asked of you with some proof to back it up, or not? Cause there was a nice size post calling out your nonsense that you conveniently skipped over.

8 hours ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

Dude.

http://gematsu.com/2017/04/sonic-forces-first-classic-sonic-gameplay-screenshots

A link. That's all anyone asked of you. A single link. It didn't even matter where it was from. Was that so goddamn hard?

Or is it because no matter where you go, there isn't a single site that's overwhelmingly positive to support your argument? Cause I just went and did a search for you while you were too busy rambling on instead of just doing the thing and from what I've seen, you can't find any "overwhelmingly positive" discussion because people are either against the game, mixed on it, or most of all not even talking about it.

This forum may seem like it's wrapped up in a massive bubble of negativity to you, but it's not the single solitary place on the entire web that has worries over this game. I'm mostly positive towards the game, but I'm not letting that cloud my sight of how things actually are with it. This game is a mess. It's marketing is a mess, or would be if it wasn't so nonexistent. It's message and presentation on what it's supposed to be and who it's supposed to be for is a muddled mess that leaving people mostly unsure, dissatisfied and/or completely uninterested.

Why? Well, from what I've gathered, Sonic Forces either has:

A. Nothing to draw in certain parts of the 3D crowd, leaving them dissatisfied.

B. What the other side of the 3D crowd wants but with nothing to show it's been tweaked or improved from how it was previously, leaving them unsure.

And C: An inferior version of Classic's gameplay that the 2D crowd has absolutely no reason to be interested or invested in since they already have a superior alternative coming out much sooner in the form of Sonic Mania, leaving them uninterested.

Add those three things together and you pretty much get the negative and unsure reception the game has here and on most other sites with hardly much to show for positivity.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there IS some haven of thrills and excitement for this game that runs wild, loud and proud somewhere out there. After all, you seem to know where it is.

So tell us. Where do you see this overwhelming positivity? Please, do tell.

Well? I'm waiting. Got an answer for us?

[Multikaris]

13 hours ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

I'm still hanging onto that premise to pull me through. If this game wasn't about Eggman finally taking over the world (literally the one premise I've always wanted to see happen in a Sonic game since forever) then being left with almost everything else we've been presented with would have probably left me as a zombie.

It just feels like a weird mishmash of the things they don't know how to do right.

You pose the question, "There's three playable characters. Who do we choose?" And the number one obvious answer that comes to any normal person's mind would probably be "Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles" and if they wanted to switch out a character for another or add another they'd go from there. And Mania did that.

Meanwhile, the corporate dodos flail their arms about and go, "Well we'll use Sonic and then use another Sonic because people done did like that Classic Sonic wot we used in Generations and in the days where people liked the classic games and we'll throw the wisps in cause the wisps were liked. They were just liked. We don't know the reason. Context for why they were liked in the one game that they were introduced in doesn't matter. We just know that people liked them so just throw all that shit in there."

You then pose the question, "How are you going to innovate on what you've decided to do with this game?" and the Mania crew decides that some new levels, new features, new moves, and maybe something interesting like those rumored animated cutscenes? Seems reasonable.

Meanwhile the Corporate bumbletrots are all "Bubsy character creation 4D. Cause that's innovation. Doing something completely new and out of left field for the sake of innovation. Who cares if it branches off of something that would reasonably be seen in Sonic? Who cares if it connects to anything. Werehog. Sword. Guns. Wisps. What? We got the wisps right? That was damn lucky of us. Let's do that again then. What? People are complaining about them now? They liked it before why not now? It can't be that the circumstances and structure of the game as well as the necessity of their inclusion falls under a completely different umbrella for the specifics of the title they were shoehorned into. NO! More wisps! New ones like Eagle (which makes you fly faster in a 3D space instead of hover slowly in a 2D one), Asteroid (which is basically the Void wisp from Colors DS only with shit motion controls that we had to patch out for free later), Rhythm (tap the screen to make Sonic go right instead of hold the analog stick right to make Sonic go right), Bomb (useless), Shoe-Lacer (Ties Sonic's shoes even though he has a shoe buckle), Saucer (It throws packets of barbeque sauce at Sonic), Tax (It stops Sonic in the middle of the stage and has him do his taxes). 

Also, we'll throw in a completely arbitrary and useless 2-player mode that absolutely no one even remembers was in Lost World where instead of playing as Tails, you control weird remote planes and knick-knacks that Tails scrapped together using the scrap from his garage. Because of course people would get more excited playing with those then the fox himself. No one likes Tails. But we'll still use him anyway because we know people like him because we can't ever make any fucking sense.

Why though? Why can't you do something that makes sense SEGA? Mania makes sense. I may not be excited for it cause I'm not into the 2D Sonic but your making me jealous of it right now. Even the music. The fucking Studiopolis music plays in my head almost everyday while your Green Hill shite makes me want to gag myself with a spoon. I bought the goddamn Studiopolis shirt because it's swagger as hell. Meanwhile, Forces, the one I'm interested in, can't even be advertised properly. And now the Archie Comics are in limbo so I can't even enjoy the characters getting to DO stuff anymore. I gotta watch them be Sonic's  bellhops and doormen. Just standing there like they've all got guns to the backs of their heads. And Jazwares lost the toy license, so I'm never getting that poorly made Rouge the Bat and E-123 Omega toy I've always wanted. I don't need a Cream the Rabbit one because she doesn't need to do anything really but I needed those two and it's impossible now because that's gone.

And First 4 Figures is stopping things now. And Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric. THAT was heavily advertized. Why not do that with Forces? Or with something that makes SENSE. Why not try making SENSE for once in your miserable 3rd party existance SEGA? Why do you always have to be so fucking WEEEIRRRRD?!?!?!?!?!

Goddamn wisps and Bubsy and Archie and TOMY and Batman and Wii U Exclusives and Deadly Six and Classic Sonic and Time Travel and Cheerleaders and Sand in Green Hill and Godzilla and new Sonic anime PLEASE! 

...

...

So anyway that mildly annoys me a bit.

Well, all this and Boom not using game characters halfway into the season and being pushed around by the broadcaster and rights owners, the Fleetway team having gone AWOL, and GE losing the license. But for all that we know, you might like the new character. What makes it immediately repulsive?

[Kintor]

2 hours ago, Dejimon11 said:

Based off what exactly? No seriously you really need to provide some proof instead of making baseless claims. 

This part at least is quite easy to explain. You might think that the usual insults and mischaracterisations is the worst thing that can happen to the Sonic franchise but you'd be wrong. The worst thing of all silence. When gamers no longer bother to mention the Sonic franchise even as the butt of a vindictive joke. That's been the reality of the situation, with the thought of a new 3D Sonic game wasn't even worth recognition. However, in the space of just a few months Sonic Forces has turned that all around. 3D Sonic games are being talked about again by mainstream gamers and even the Sonic franchises most ardent detractors have to acknowledge Sonic Forces as a credibly platformer worthy considering as a purchase.

[Blue Blood]

15 minutes ago, Kintor said:

This part at least is quite easy to explain. You might think that the usual insults and mischaracterisations is the worst thing that can happen to the Sonic franchise but you'd be wrong. The worst thing of all silence. When gamers no longer bother to mention the Sonic franchise even as the butt of a vindictive joke. That's been the reality of the situation, with the thought of a new 3D Sonic game wasn't even worth recognition. However, in the space of just a few months Sonic Forces has turned that all around. 3D Sonic games are being talked about again by mainstream gamers and even the Sonic franchises most ardent detractors have to acknowledge Sonic Forces as a credibly platformer worthy considering as a purchase.

Where?

[Waveshocker Sigma]

11 minutes ago, Kintor said:

This part at least is quite easy to explain. You might think that the usual insults and mischaracterisations is the worst thing that can happen to the Sonic franchise but you'd be wrong. The worst thing of all silence. When gamers no longer bother to mention the Sonic franchise even as the butt of a vindictive joke. That's been the reality of the situation, with the thought of a new 3D Sonic game wasn't even worth recognition. However, in the space of just a few months Sonic Forces has turned that all around. 3D Sonic games are being talked about again by mainstream gamers and even the Sonic franchises most ardent detractors have to acknowledge Sonic Forces as a credibly platformer worthy considering as a purchase.

That's quite the bold claim considering that hardly anyone outside of the Sonic fandom is even talking about Forces, as I searched and found earlier. They're too busy being focused on Mania.

You really do just ignore anything that goes against whatever fantasy that goes on in your head, don't you?

We want you to show us the proof of this, not just tell us and expect us to blindly believe you.

Show, don't tell.

[Meta77]

I've been a fan since 91. The thing about forces that bugs me is how little Sega wants to show off unlike mania. I'm sure some has to do with surprise but all it feels of 8ts self doubt the game will be praised heavily and is simply another meducorw 3d game tossed out. Hell sonic adventure had more screenshots and info before launch than this mess

[Diogenes]

We're still months away from the game's likely release date, there's still plenty of time for them to spoil a bunch of stuff.