Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Dejimon11]

40 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Therein lies a bit of an issue to me...

Waiting for the E3 event and other "major events" to reveal more about the game and advertise it seems very counterproductive for Forces as a whole. Expecting things like E3 and random fan conventions to be the hot-ticket for promotion just seems like a poor decision during a time where people still aren't going to care enough for their product with such minimalistic efforts.

When it comes to the general audiences they aren't going to follow the franchise like that, which is why something like being part of Nintendo Directs is a good thing but they wasted the opportunity with the smallest amount of content they could give/allow Nintendo to show.

Sonic just isn't at a point where drip-feeding content like this is going to be beneficial, not to a 3D product anyways, especially one supposedly featuring some randomly new character and some random new game play which sets off more alarms than applauds.

I really hope the rest of the year doesn't reserve revelations purely to E3 and other stuff as has been the case in past years. They need to get the game all over the internet, dare I say go above and beyond of how Breath of the Wild hit everyone.

Make the Sonic Forces title what SEGA is all about, make it the thing people pretty much have no choice BUT to see. Throw out that confidence so hard it's beating our faces black and blue.

Don't tell consumers "Please play our game!" but instead "You HAVE to play our game!"

That's something a lot of companies do with their games to be honest. By E3 i'm sure we'll be get enough information to get a good idea of what we can expect from the game and from then till release we'll get some steady information to determine weather or not folks will get it. 

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Dejimon11 said:

That's something a lot of companies do with their games to be honest. By E3 i'm sure we'll be get enough information to get a good idea of what we can expect from the game and from then till release we'll get some steady information to determine weather or not folks will get it. 

I hope so, but SEGA does have a thing for revealing stuff at, and ONLY at events, be them big things like E3 or fan conventions. They haven't exactly evolved in terms of marketing their games over the years.

Thanks to Mr. Webber they're fantastic at marketing the franchise itself, but the marketing for their new products is absurd as ever. I again point to what Nintendo did with BoTW, they made it the face of the company pretty much.

That's what Forces needs. Right now it feels tucked in a corner and warily flashed in front of folks before being hidden away again. I don't know if this will change or not, but I'm not expecting any consistent/constant stream of information. It will be nice if that happens, but our luck is E3, Summer of Sonic, and... Whatever random events we just get lucky enough to get SOMETHING out of.

[Milo]

2 hours ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Since we wanna get back on topic, let me ask you all something while we are at it.

Just how many of you are disappointed with Forces so far? Also, how many of you are not?

I'd say I'm not so much disappointed than I am overall unimpressed.

Stuff like Classic Sonic and --in the case of Green Hill-- old levels returning for this game feels like they're being added to this game for the wrong interpreted reasons--not because the studio wanted to make them better or give them a proper twist, but because they were selling points in previously-liked games and that people would thus like them here too. It doesn't help that from what we've seen from them in action, they (IMO) look uninspired at best (Green Hill) and really poor (Classic Sonic) at worst.

Meanwhile, stuff people are asking for that is returning (Boost gameplay) doesn't look like they've actually done anything to improve on or refine on it--this wouldn't be a problem with other playstyles, but the Boost is frequently criticized as a very limited and restrictive in its approach, and Forces doesn't look like it will change that. Nor is Sonic Team actually interested in building a game solely about that playstyle either, still throwing other things into the mix than allow it to stand on its own.

Moreover, they're still doing things people complained about in the past/weren't asking for, like adding Wisps into the game and the whole kettle of the new character and his dedicated playstyle (and the possibility of it being a create-a-character system).

It's like the studio (still) has a really warped view on how to handle Sonic as a game series, or are (still) overall really lacking in confidence / passion for their IP, so they're just throwing stuff together and hoping it will stick. Which I think really shows through the drip-feed style marketing cycle the game is doing now.

All of the above I think is really important because this is supposed to be the first game in years in which Sonic Team not only had a decent amount of time to work on a I think the new game (four years, following Lost World), but also wasn't dividing themselves into working on other projects at the same time. Outside Sonic Runners (which was only active for a year) and maybe Puyo Puyo Tetris (emphasis on maybe, I think Tracker_TD mentioned that a different group has been making the Puyo Puyo games for a while now). Yet from what I've seen so far, Forces just seems as if they haven't really learned anything and properly course-correct on feedback, despite actually having more time/resources on hand to do so. Forces just seems to continue validating my view that Sonic Team is still inept at franchise management as a whole. Iizuka on record of saying Forces "is not Generations 2", despite Forces clearly shaping up to be a spiritual successor to that title, I think really cements this.

The only reason I'm unimpressed as opposed to being disappointed is because Sega also has Mania coming, which is a return to a style of Sonic I've been wanting for years and looks like it will be pulling it off extremely well. So I'm more apathetic to Forces more than anything. Though if this was the only Sonic game on the horizon....I'd probably be beyond disappointed, maybe outright livid actually.

[Chris Knopps]

12 minutes ago, Gabe said:

I'd say I'm not so much disappointed than I am overall unimpressed.

Stuff like Classic Sonic and --in the case of Green Hill-- old levels returning for this game feels like they're being added to this game for the wrong interpreted reasons--not because the studio wanted to make them better or give them a proper twist, but because they were selling points in previously-liked games and that people would thus like them here too. It doesn't help that from what we've seen from them in action, they (IMO) look uninspired at best (Green Hill) and really poor (Classic Sonic) at worst.

Meanwhile, stuff people are asking for that is returning (Boost gameplay) doesn't look like they've actually done anything to improve on or refine on it--this wouldn't be a problem with other playstyles, but the Boost is frequently criticized as a very limited and restrictive in its approach, and Forces doesn't look like it will change that. Nor is Sonic Team actually interested in building a game solely about that playstyle either, still throwing other things into the mix than allow it to stand on its own.

Moreover, they're still doing things people complained about in the past/weren't asking for, like adding Wisps into the game and the whole kettle of the new character and his dedicated playstyle (and the possibility of it being a create-a-character system).

It's like the studio (still) has a really warped view on how to handle Sonic as a game series, or are (still) overall really lacking in confidence / passion for their IP, so they're just throwing stuff together and hoping it will stick.

All of the above I think is really important because this is supposed to be the first game in years in which Sonic Team not only had a decent amount of time to work on a I think the new game (four years, following Lost World), but also wasn't dividing themselves into working on other projects at the same time. Outside Sonic Runners (which was only active for a year) and maybe Puyo Puyo Tetris (emphasis on maybe, I think Tracker_TD mentioned that a different group has been making the Puyo Puyo games for a while now). Yet from what I've seen so far, Forces just seems as if they haven't really learned anything and properly course-correct on feedback, despite actually having more time/resources on hand to do so. Forces just seems to continue validating my view that Sonic Team is still inept at franchise management as a whole.

The only reason I'm unimpressed as opposed to being disappointed is because Sega also has Mania coming, which is a return to a style of Sonic I've been wanting for years and looks like it will be pulling it off extremely well. So I'm more apathetic to Forces more than anything. Though if this was the only Sonic game on the horizon....I'd probably be beyond disappointed, maybe outright livid actually.

What concerns me is how early on Green Hill of all stages still looks. It's as if they JUST recently started making the actual game itself and up to this point was just tinkering with the engines and such.

In an early build, we see one version of Green Hill, less in the background and such, less detail, and in what I assume is the recent build of it we saw not long ago in the full stage play through, with the added foliage, it's still bad off with the whole poorly animated trees I've mentioned that have leaves crumpling into balls.

That's likely the start of the game, and that's a prime cause for concern for me right there.

[Kintor]

3 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

Lol, I literally didn't read the rest of that post because I felt the premise alone was preposterous enough to not bother with refuting the underlying support and logic going towards supporting it. But yes, let it be known for the record that it's actually incorrect that I don't care that much about Mania.

I literally don't care about it in any capacity beyond mentioning it in this dumb discussion.

Look up my posts and see how much I don't post in the Mania thread due the fact that I've got nothing of note to add in it due to my apathy and bitter history (if only people took this approach towards Forces, but c'est la vie).

Although I wouldn't want to see it crash and burn because I'm not that much of an asshole, I've got no real emotional investment in said game overall.

So trying to position me as a defender of it just because I know some basic math and business sense is that much more hilarious and more of an indicator that all of this is about nothing more than trying to make out Forces to be this perfect little gem of a game with which no one can possibly have a problem with.

Which is not only disingenuous arguing (you still don't know how profits work even after multiple people have explained it to you Kintor), but it's transparently insecure to the point of cringe. I like arguably worse-looking games in this franchise while disliking and hating more beloved ones, and I don't need the validation of others to hold these opinions. Because I'm an adult.

So, yeah. What we're gonna do is drop this tangent. We're also going to stop acting like fanboys every single time someone mentions something that isn't absolutely glowing praise, because fanboyism and bad-faith arguing are actually against the rules and we can strike and ban for this shit all willy-nilly. I did it before when one person kept having an aneurysm over Lost World's art style, and I will happily do it again to people who are going to go on with shitty economics arguments that are a ploy to make a thread all about them and their hurt feelings over Forces' reception on this website. The Forces topic is already a blight and there's no reason it has to be derailed by one person's emotional investment.

I've always argued in good faith when replying to your posts and I apologise if  this thread's little detour into economics isn't the tone that you wanted here at SSMB. Although for someone who didn't like the discussion I find it strange that you would characterise my passion for the subject as an 'emotional investment'. Regardless, I understand that this is perhaps too early to be talking about sales figures and comparative profits, that discussion might still have to wait until several months after release. I will keep that in mind in the future.

3 hours ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Since we wanna get back on topic, let me ask you all something while we are at it.

Just how many of you are disappointed with Forces so far? Also, how many of you are not?

Leading with a question like that is sure to encourage disapointed posts. Frame everything from a disapointed pointed of view and your only going to get disapointment in return.

Even so, that's not disapoint is all that you should seek to find. Things are actually going quite well. We have the return of well liked gameplay. We have the promise of darker elements. Plus the return of 3D Sonic games as multi-platform games, thats a big deal and bodes well for the future of the Sonic franchise. These are all steps in the right direction and will do much to restore gamer's confidence in the franchise as whole, thanks to Sonic Forces.

[CleverSonicUsername]

3 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

Forces Green Hill sounds pretty good with more authentic Mega Drive instruments and a slower tempo (and with the Splash Hill part taken out): https://m.soundcloud.com/voksmaigosh/green-hill-zone-reinstrumented-sonic-forces

 

I still can't stand the melody but at least it isn't abrasive as all fuck to listen to when done with Genesis instrumentation. 

[Chris Knopps]

4 minutes ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

I still can't stand the melody but at least it isn't abrasive as all fuck to listen to when done with Genesis instrumentation. 

I still wish we could get those Dreams Come True folks to come back and do some work.

[CleverSonicUsername]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

I still wish we could get those Dreams Come True folks to come back and do some work.

I'd just settle on Sonic Team remembering what a motherfucking Genesis sounds like.

[StaticMania]

Or they could try not to emulate the Genesis sound at all...there are no more limitations.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, CleverSonicUsername said:

I'd just settle on Sonic Team remembering what a motherfucking Genesis sounds like.

I swear you people make me feel like a kid again. lol

Funniest thing is... It really was THEIR own console and they can't imitate the sounds today with way higher tech.

...Forces is so much fun, it Forces us to have a good time, albeit negative.

[CleverSonicUsername]

3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Or they could try not to emulate the Genesis sound at all...there are no more limitations.

Yeah but they're clearly trying to go for something Genesis-esque, and if that's the direction they wanna go, they should at least commit and get it right. I don't care how their games sound by the end of the day so long as they sound good.

Edit: I do think the track in Modern Sonic's stage sounds perfectly fine, and frankly I don't think Classic Sonic needs to have a chiptune soundtrack to his levels.

[Chris Knopps]

You know what WOULD have been cool?

It's a game about the apocalypse right...?

What if you started out with Classic Sonic visiting the Hidden Palace to check on the ol' emeralds, then some crazy stuff happens, and you have to escape the place through Lava Reef as everything erupts and stuff, maybe from the emeralds being stolen again?

I mean... I guess the Robotnik of the past can steal the emeralds of his timeline while Eggman of the present does the same and they bring the power together...

...That possible? Just a random crazy idea that's not the usual first stage.

Plus... An exploding Lava Reef... Can you imagine the crazy rock/metal kind of music they could use for that scenario?

Maybe the Robotnik of the past could blow up the Hidden Palace to kick start all of the explosions to add some cannon backstory as to why it's gone in the Adventure series and why the emerald had to be relocated.

[Zippo]

Not at all. The classic remixes in Generations were fantastic. I have no earthly clue why they aren't going for that musical direction with his stages again. Don't fix what isn't broken. It's even weirder because even Mania is using CD quality music. 

[Salamander]

So far as disappointment goes, I'm primarily a handheld gamer and my relationship to the mainline series has mostly been that of a detached observer; although Sega for some years pursued the direction of the handheld downgrade version of the main titles, the gameplay wouldn't be the same as the console equivalent and I felt it was tiresome that the main console titles were effectively decreasing the franchise's creative range by diminishing the possibility of alternative styles.  So I don't have much default goodwill towards the main series, but I do have interest, especially when Forces had the potential to be my first mainline title in a long time thanks to being on the Switch.

My interest in actually playing the game rather than just watching the fallout has drastically diminished, though, as it's become clear that the gameplay is going to be tremendously shallow.  Green Hill was a low point, not just in terms of playability but also, unusually, in terms of the visuals.  I used to think "Sonic Team may not be able to make a good game, but they can certainly make a pretty one" - but their approach to Green Hill Zone in terms of art style is frankly unimpressive.  And while I usually don't notice music much one way or another, the Green Hill music as presented to us I found actually uncomfortable to listen to.

So, how disappointed am I?  Well, I was never set on getting the game anyway, and for me it's more interesting to watch people's reactions - so if I can't be let down by playing the game then I can at least hope it'll produce plenty to talk about, and fortunately it can do that regardless of whether it's a good game or a bad game.  Artistically it may be disappointing, but if it's disappointing in a way which leaves a lot of things for us to analyse and dissect, then I'll still enjoy myself.

[Badnik Mechanic]

4 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

 

It's a game about the apocalypse right...?

No it's a game about a dictator who was able to conquer the world and a small resistance trying to over throw him.

[StaticMania]

5 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

No it's a game about a dictator who was able to conquer the world and a small resistance trying to over throw him.

But it looks like the apocalypse, that's gonna go somewhere.

[Jango]

Don't you mean, Eggpocalypse?

[Blue Blood]

1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

But it looks like the apocalypse, that's gonna go somewhere.

It's one war-torn city, and another tropical paradise where there's sand instead of an ocean. Apocalypse is way over selling it. 

[StaticMania]

That Green Hill lookin' level just ruins everything...even the idea of an apocalyptic Sonic the Hedgehog world. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

 

I wanted to sell it even more once we see more of the game.

[Blue Blood]

1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

That Green Hill lookin' level just ruins everything...even the idea of an apocalyptic Sonic the Hedgehog world. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

 

I wanted to sell it even more once we see more of the game.

Lol 

There may be other areas that have seen better days. In fact, I hope there really is a theme of ruin that continues throughout the entire game. But it's not apocalyptic, just Eggman taking over somehow. 

[StaticMania]

Yeah, there's no apocalypse, exaggerations can be too strong on my end and it's no where close to Crisis City levels of ruin, but if levels do get progressively ruined throughout the game...that would be positive, just for the attempt.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

It's Dr. Eggman we're talking about here, he's not the kind of man who'd merely destroy the world and turn everything into ruins.
I mean, he will, but not before spraypainting his happy grin on the walls and then build a giant themepark in his honor on top of every graveyard of the land.

If Sonic team has some fun with the premise, we can get a Church Of Eggman, or Eggman themed opera houses, toy factories and Zoo's.
A giant Disneyland style level. Have a "It's a small world after all" ride with every culture of the planet depicted as just mindlessly worshipping Eggman. It's funny and wacky, with a hint of discomfort and the stakes at hand. It's perfect.

So plenty of more colorful envirements are possible, while the darker "end of the world" concept is still present beyond the facade of Eggman's forcefull happiness.


.....At least that's what I hope they'll do. Not just brainlessly jump from Shadow/Sonic 06 style misery to Lost world/ Colors style happy go lucky land, but have a darker sense of humor and combine the 2 extremes.

 

[Blue Blood]

I swear if this game has another good damn fucking food level...

[StaticMania]

They said Eggman won...and that'll probably mean that we'll see some Eggman style levels. Well, it should mean that because otherwise it means he didn't actually win yet, but he's in the process of winning.

Things getting more Eggman-y is fine, but there can be one level worse off than the one stage already shown for Modern Sonic.

[Indigo Rush]

15 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

I swear if this game has another good damn fucking food level...

Egg Factory Zone will literally be about eggs.