Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[PC the Hedgehog]

14 hours ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Since we wanna get back on topic, let me ask you all something while we are at it.

Just how many of you are disappointed with Forces so far? Also, how many of you are not?

I'm not disappointed at all. Can't say there's much to be excited about either, though. We still barely know anything about the game, and I'd rather not get emotionally invested one way or the other based on less than 3 minutes of footage. Color me cautiously optimistic at this point.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

52 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

I swear if this game has another good damn fucking food level...

Aw, I always liked the food levels though. I was reminded of how much I liked the aesthetic last night while playing MK8DX.

I'm usually one for more "cool" type levels (like the fiery city or space stations), but something about speeding over giant cakes is appealing to me.

[Blue Blood]

44 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Egg Factory Zone will literally be about eggs.

I won't stand to have them retconning Riders either.

1 minute ago, Radiant Hero Ike said:

Aw, I always liked the food levels though. I was reminded of how much I liked the aesthetic last night while playing MK8DX.

I'm usually one for more "cool" type levels (like the fiery city or space stations), but something about speeding over giant cakes is appealing to me.

I just don't think it works for Sonic at all. Sweet Mountain in Colours barely gets a pass because it's got more to it that 'giant confectionery floating in a technicolour void", and suitably worked with the theme park angle. But there wasn't a moment's thought given to Lost World's Dessert Ruins. Sonic levels are at their best where there's an element of reality and creativity to them. Giant food is just no.

[Tracker_TD]

1 minute ago, Radiant Hero Ike said:

Aw, I always liked the food levels though. I was reminded of how much I liked the aesthetic last night while playing MK8DX.

I'm usually one for more "cool" type levels (like the fiery city or space stations), but something about speeding over giant cakes is appealing to me.

Something like Sweet Mountain is neat, something like that Sonic Lost World one is... jarring. 

I could see them go crazy with theming like that in an Eggmanland style level. Say we have Eggman's personal palace, and at certain points you'll run through a flamboyant dining room or something.

...I think I've got MGR on the mind, whoops. 

[HywelAtTheMoon]

I love the sound of an Egg Palace. I'd love it if this leads to a bunker underneath where you have to catch him before he escapes or fires a WMD when he knows the game's up. 

[Jango]

Honestly, all levels in Forces should be Eggman centered: Eggman's Evil Jacuzzi Zone, Eggman's Evil Tennis Court Zone, Eggman's Evil Dining Room Zone, Eggman's Evil Beach House Zone, Eggman's Evil Rest Room Zone, Eggman's Evil 7-Eleven, Eggman's Evil Starbucks Zone...

[Indigo Rush]

None of the food levels featured chili dogs so none of them are correct anyway

[Blue Blood]

6 minutes ago, Jango said:

Honestly, all levels in Forces should be Eggman centered: Eggman's Evil Jacuzzi Zone, Eggman's Evil Tennis Court Zone, Eggman's Evil Dining Room Zone, Eggman's Evil Beach House Zone, Eggman's Evil Rest Room Zone, Eggman's Evil 7-Eleven, Eggman's Evil Starbucks Zone...

Eggman's Evil Rehash Zone

[Radiant Hero Ike]

56 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

I won't stand to have them retconning Riders either.

I just don't think it works for Sonic at all. Sweet Mountain in Colours barely gets a pass because it's got more to it that 'giant confectionery floating in a technicolour void", and suitably worked with the theme park angle. But there wasn't a moment's thought given to Lost World's Dessert Ruins. Sonic levels are at their best where there's an element of reality and creativity to them. Giant food is just no.

Oh, that's a good point.

Hm... On the subject of stages, I can't really think of any new tropes off the top of my head that I'd like to see. In terms of old ones though I'd like to see another space level. I love those.

[Diogenes]

1 hour ago, Blue Blood said:

I just don't think it works for Sonic at all. Sweet Mountain in Colours barely gets a pass because it's got more to it that 'giant confectionery floating in a technicolour void", and suitably worked with the theme park angle. But there wasn't a moment's thought given to Lost World's Dessert Ruins. Sonic levels are at their best where there's an element of reality and creativity to them. Giant food is just no.

An instance of convenient timing:

Really, though, I don't get why Dessert Ruins sets off so many people. It's not the platonic ideal of Sonic level themes or anything, but it's not the only time the series has dabbled in weirder level themes, yet it's the only one that seems to get shit for it.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

An instance of convenient timing:

Really, though, I don't get why Dessert Ruins sets off so many people. It's not the platonic ideal of Sonic level themes or anything, but it's not the only time the series has dabbled in weirder level themes, yet it's the only one that seems to get shit for it.

It's because of where it was placed. It's completely irrelevant to the zone as a whole compared to the stage you just brought up.

[Diogenes]

Are you really going to argue that people would've liked Dessert Ruins more if there was a whole zone's worth of it?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 hour ago, Jango said:

Honestly, all levels in Forces should be Eggman centered: Eggman's Evil Jacuzzi Zone, Eggman's Evil Tennis Court Zone, Eggman's Evil Dining Room Zone, Eggman's Evil Beach House Zone, Eggman's Evil Rest Room Zone, Eggman's Evil 7-Eleven, Eggman's Evil Starbucks Zone...

And thus, completing each stage recovers the stage's colors to their former glory day phase.

[Multikaris]

22 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

An instance of convenient timing:

Really, though, I don't get why Dessert Ruins sets off so many people. It's not the platonic ideal of Sonic level themes or anything, but it's not the only time the series has dabbled in weirder level themes, yet it's the only one that seems to get shit for it.

The thing is that Dessert Ruins was not only misplaced, it also seems to totally lack a sense of real structure. Sweet Mountain, Music Plant, or heck, Level Ate from one of Sonic's contemporaries seem to have structure, are attached to something. They feel convincing, with a Sky and all. Even Level Ate feels like a cavern of some kind. Dessert Ruins has no structure, the things are just suspended in a nonsensical space. The music also hurts Dessert Ruins in this regard, as it sounds WAY too whimsical, innocent, cheery, and straight-faced. Sweet Mountain and Level Ate aren't like that. They come off as energetic and powerful with their music. (Love the jazz solo in Level Ate!)

 

 

And on-topic, I'd like to see a Decidous Forest stage, and another stage in Echidna ruins. Maybe a trip back to the ARK? Or heck, the Death Egg II.

[Blue Blood]

35 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

An instance of convenient timing:

Really, though, I don't get why Dessert Ruins sets off so many people. It's not the platonic ideal of Sonic level themes or anything, but it's not the only time the series has dabbled in weirder level themes, yet it's the only one that seems to get shit for it.

Eeeey nice to know my signature still exists cause I can't even see it anymore.

Dessert Ruins has barely got any design to it. It's the most basic and unimaginative of ideas that doesn't even have any context within itself. There's just nothing to appreciate there. Music Plant, for being as totally unrealistic and out there as it is, is at least creative. It's some kind of structure that's both adorned with and themed around musical instruments. If it was just trumpets and pianos against a sky backdrop, I'd be giving it just as much shit as I give Dessert Ruins. But it's not, so I don't. It's a city/plant/factory/industrial whatsit themed around musical instruments. And that's pretty much what Sweet Mountain is too - just replace musical instruments with food. 

If we just look at Lost World in a bubble and ignore the rest of the series, we have - a lush green paradise, an Egyptian desert, a tropical beach, a volcano, a casino and... floating cakes. It doesn't work. What's the theme? There's isn't one.

The idea of food themed levels never sits right with me in any series; even things like Rayman and Mario don't get a free pass. When it comes to Sonic though, I find it particularly jarring to see giant food as a theme when everything else is either mechanical, natural or ancient. The weirdest of ideas would come in the form of abstract and magical locations, like the Special Stages. I don't feel that "food" works nearly as well as a theme. 

And in a desperate attempt to stay on the topic of Forces here, I really like what we've seen of the game's thematic stylings with both Green Hill and Blown Up City Zone. Lol Food Zone would clash painfully alongside those. 

32 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Are you really going to argue that people would've liked Dessert Ruins more if there was a whole zone's worth of it?

Huh? No. If there was any more of it, it would probably garner even more negative feedback.

[Diogenes]

Just now, Blue Blood said:

Dessert Ruins has barely got any design to it. It's the most basic and unimaginative of ideas that doesn't even have any context within itself. There's just nothing to appreciate there. Music Plant, for being as totally unrealistic and out there as it is, is at least creative. It's some kind of structure adorned with and themed around musical instruments. If it was just trumpets and pianos against a sky backdrop, I'd be giving it just as much shit as I give Dessert Ruins. But it's not. It's a city/plant/factory/industrial whatsit themed around musical instruments. And that's pretty much what Sweet Mountain is too - just replace musical instruments with food. 

What aside from the name shows any indication that it's a city/plant/factory/industrial area? It's a bunch of abstract multicolored platforms and giant instruments in a starry pink void. Basically the only difference is that there's no gravity gimmick.

[SuaveKnux]

2 hours ago, PC the Hedgehog said:

I'm not disappointed at all. Can't say there's much to be excited about either, though. We still barely know anything about the game, and I'd rather not get emotionally invested one way or the other based on less than 3 minutes of footage. Color me cautiously optimistic at this point.

 

 

This is how I feel as well, so much rage caused by a 3 minute footage of a unfinished game

[SenEDDtor Missile]

2 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

I swear if this game has another good damn fucking food level...

As much as I don't care for food levels myself, what if it was like Sweet Mountain, only it's an Egg Food Factory with people visibly slaving in hellish conditions to make Eggman his sandwiches...or something?

 

This sounded less dumb in my head than out on words.

[Alienrun]

1 minute ago, SuaveKnux said:

 

This is how I feel as well, so much rage caused by a 3 minute footage of a unfinished game

Keep in mind that a lot of people who feel the same way you do probably felt less inclined to voice there opinion, so that's why it might seem like everyone is jumping the gun to bash the game at first...

Also, a majority of us "bashers" aren't nessesarily in "rage"...we just have nothing better to do so some of us will complain at any sight of what could be "bad game design" lol.

(sorry if this post was redundant.)

[Tracker_TD]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

What aside from the name shows any indication that it's a city/plant/factory/industrial area? It's a bunch of abstract multicolored platforms and giant instruments in a starry pink void. Basically the only difference is that there's no gravity gimmick.

Technically speaking, you're right; but the background gives suggestion of more than just a void. The colourful objects towards the bottom remind me of Stardust Speedway's cityscapes more than anything. It's just more structured than Lost World's genuine void of food. 

[Blue Blood]

8 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

What aside from the name shows any indication that it's a city/plant/factory/industrial area? It's a bunch of abstract multicolored platforms and giant instruments in a starry pink void. Basically the only difference is that there's no gravity gimmick.

The very presence of those abstract multicoloured platforms forming a structure. Music Plant, whatever the hell it is, is more than just giant, disjointed objects floating in the sky. It's got as much of a theme and design to it as almost any other Sonic level. Sweet Mountain, and even the digital levels like Techno Base, fit this bill. And once again, "disjointed objects floating in the sky" does not.

And what I'm getting at has absolutely nothing to do with the gravity gimmick; if it did, I'd be ripping on all of the other levels in Lost World as well.

[Diogenes]

6 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

Technically speaking, you're right; but the background gives suggestion of more than just a void. The colourful objects towards the bottom remind me of Stardust Speedway's cityscapes more than anything. It's just more structured than Lost World's genuine void of food. 

That's just too abstract for me to consider any kind of cityscape. Stardust Speedway was clearly invoking a cityscape, and actually had recognizable buildings visible to back it up. This is just some colorful pillars and giant instruments in a pink mist.

5 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

The very presence of those abstract multicoloured platforms forming a structure. Music Plant, whatever the hell it is, is more than just giant, disjointed objects floating in the sky. And what I'm getting at has absolutely nothing to do with the gravity gimmick; if it did, I'd be ripping on all of the other levels in Lost World as well.

So a giant jumble of ridiculous objects sitting on the ground is fine? I don't mean to be snarky but I just don't see how some people draw the line between "acceptable" and "blasphemous".

[JezMM]

Music Plant always came off to me as an example of the "amusement park" theme.  Obviously it's scope is MASSIVE but so are most industrial/man-made regions in Sonic games (such as Stardust Speedway Good Future, an equally sprawling amusement park).  Hell, the fact that it's CALLED Music Plant suggests that it is some kind of intentionally "built" complex.

Dessert Ruins would be fine if there were some other stages in the game that were equally surreal/disjointed other than Hidden World, since it would create a consistent idea that the Lost Hex really is this unpredictable and as crazy and surreal as the special stages of old... but it's the only one.  I would've happily had some more totally out there levels, but all of the others have a sense of place to them so Dessert Ruins sticks out.

[Blue Blood]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

So a giant jumble of ridiculous objects sitting on the ground is fine? I don't mean to be snarky but I just don't see how some people draw the line between "acceptable" and "blasphemous".

Now you're just cherry picking, because I said more in previous posts.

Come on, man. You debate better than this. 

2 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Dessert Ruins would be fine if there were some other stages in the game that were equally surreal/disjointed other than Hidden World, since it would create a consistent idea that the Lost Hex really is this unpredictable and as crazy and surreal as the special stages of old... but it's the only one.

I actually think the Hidden World was fine. Thematically it was out there, but it wasn't devoid of any sense of creativity like Dessert Ruins.

[Alienrun]

Was playing Lost World for the first time in ages earlier today and...

I...I just can't!

I watch dss Speedrun the game a lot and, it goes without saying that the way the levels are designed as a whole is just really lazy, reusing assets, everything looking so artificial its just UGH! And seeing the levels being broken so much only makes it worse...

And I need to make it clear that I'm singling out Lost World when I say this...06 speedruns despite there glitchyness still feel like actual levels. Every structure feels like it was given a soliditary purpose and reason for being there, its perhaps one of the best things about that game...

Like...I can't even tell where the levels are supposed to be located in relation to the sideways floor...is that part of the lost hex or??

Nevermind whatever dessert f**king ruins is supposed to be! I legitametly can't tell how sonic got in there and how he got out! (Like this is even worse than Sonic 2's random chemical plant for instance, but at least that can be handwaved.)

...To think this was all done for a dumb silly joke...well guess who's laughing! :/ (hint, its not me)