Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[PC the Hedgehog]

I think it was always meant to be just a dumb joke.

"Hay Saburu if we put anudder S on 'Desert Ruinz' itd b 'Dessert Ruinz lawl!'"
"OMG Kenji ya gave me a grat idear lawl!"
"lawl"
"lawl"

[JezMM]

4 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

I actually think the Hidden World was fine. Thematically it was out there, but it wasn't devoid of any sense of creativity like Dessert Ruins.

Yeah, Hidden World felt right... it was a bonus area and the idea of this entire world being "surreal" themed felt good.  But Dessert Ruins is just this single act of a zone that's otherwise Desert themed.  All the other zones manage to contextualise whatever offbeat act they offer as being in the same sort of place as the other acts, but Dessert Ruins is just... there.

To be fair the Honeycomb Highway Act is weird too and might've fit better in Windy Hill or Sky Road thematically, but yeah.  None of the other Zones are as disjointed as Desert Ruins is, especially due to how VERY straight it plays the two ACTUAL deserty acts.

[Indigo Rush]

This debate is giving me a cavity.

Can we at least agree that Sonic Advance 2 is better than Sonic Lost World?

 

[Blue Blood]

2 minutes ago, PC the Hedgehog said:

I think it was always meant to be just a dumb joke.

"Hay Saburu if we put anudder S on 'Desert Ruinz' itd b 'Dessert Ruinz lawl!'"
"OMG Kenji ya gave me a grat idear lawl!"
"lawl"
"lawl"

It wasn't even always the case. Plus there's nothing about it that's "ruins", and Lost World has a bunch of acts that are randomly under different zones. 

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, JezMM said:

Dessert Ruins would be fine if there were some other stages in the game that were equally surreal/disjointed other than Hidden World, since it would create a consistent idea that the Lost Hex really is this unpredictable and as crazy and surreal as the special stages of old... but it's the only one.

The whole game takes place on a planetoid made of hexagonal fragments, more specifically on the gravity-defying tubes and blocks above them. There are giant beehives, fruit juicers built into the ground to spray juice paths between planetoids, floating billiards tables, a casino with massive pinball tables, and then the postgame world completely gives up on making sense and has you jumping across gravity bubbles evading fuzzy pac-men. I'm not sure how much more surreal the game could've been.

1 minute ago, Blue Blood said:

Now you're just cherry picking, because I said more in previous posts.

Come on, man. You debate better than this. 

I am legit not trying to be a shit about this, I just don't see what the difference is supposed to be.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

3 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

This debate is giving me a cavity.

Can we at least agree that Sonic Advance 2 is better than Sonic Lost World?

 

Not if we're counting 100% completion,  no!

[D.K.]

I don't know why every platformer ever in recent years needs to have a food-themed level but it needs to fucking stop.

[Dee Dude]

@Depression Kong

Cause their delicious? 

But seriously, there's probably just a charm to it. I'll admit, it gets work but back then, levels like those required a lot of creativity so I'm guessing they're mostly for aesthetics and unique level design.

[JezMM]

12 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

The whole game takes place on a planetoid made of hexagonal fragments, more specifically on the gravity-defying tubes and blocks above them. There are giant beehives, fruit juicers built into the ground to spray juice paths between planetoids, floating billiards tables, a casino with massive pinball tables, and then the postgame world completely gives up on making sense and has you jumping across gravity bubbles evading fuzzy pac-men. I'm not sure how much more surreal the game could've been.

I am legit not trying to be a shit about this, I just don't see what the difference is supposed to be.

I think it's the void that makes it in this case then for me.  All the other "weird stuff" is minor stuff within otherwise "normal" levels ("floating in the sky" being "normal" for this game).  I think if it had been designed so the food looks like man-made scenery rather than ACTUAL food, that would've been enough for it to not be totally wacky and out there, considering all levels take place on floating geometry in Lost World, but that doesn't seem to be the case.  It seems to be literal floating food with no explaination other than "a wizard did it" (and the whole of Lost Hex, apparently).

For the record, I feel Honeycomb Highway is out of place too when I think about it to the same level of scrutiny, and it bothers me that both these things are in the same zone when all the other very surreal moments are contextually justified (Act 2 of Frozen Factory blends Snow with Casino, Act 2 of Silent Forest is still within the overall scope of "plants and ruins" theme of the zone, Hidden World is implied to be in the core of Lost Hex if I recall from the map screen etc).

[Blue Blood]

26 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

The whole game takes place on a planetoid made of hexagonal fragments, more specifically on the gravity-defying tubes and blocks above them. There are giant beehives, fruit juicers built into the ground to spray juice paths between planetoids, floating billiards tables, a casino with massive pinball tables, and then the postgame world completely gives up on making sense and has you jumping across gravity bubbles evading fuzzy pac-men. I'm not sure how much more surreal the game could've been.

I am legit not trying to be a shit about this, I just don't see what the difference is supposed to be.

The fruit juicers were also pretty shit and I've only forgotten about them because Dessert Ruins was even shittier. Giant Beehive out of nowhere was naff too. Lost World really was an unabashed Mario Galaxy clone.

The hexagons formed the base of this unusual world, and the tubular levels were an artefact of the level design which was supposed to be lacking any boundaries. But even if you do take Windy Hill, you can see quite clearly that it's tropical paradise platentoids suspended over tropical paradise. Things were only floating to justify the level design philosophy, and when in 2D the level retained the gravity gimmick with a more grounded structure. The tubes became a part of the world's theme though, and they were consistent. Even Hidden World was a location in and of itself. There were mountains, trees, disco lights and and everything else going on in bright whimsical colours to create a feeling of something special and climatic. Dessert Ruins had none of this - it was just food in the sky. 

[Chris Knopps]

It really does feel like we've reached this point...

Sad but... In a way, very true.

[D.K.]

10 minutes ago, Dee Dude said:

Cause it's delicious?

That's the thing, though - It's not delicious. It's literally as cartoony, plastic and unappealing as 3D-rendered food can get.

[Tracker_TD]

7 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

It really does feel like we've reached this point...

Sad but... In a way, very true.

Lemme just correct you there:

[Multikaris]

54 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

Technically speaking, you're right; but the background gives suggestion of more than just a void. The colourful objects towards the bottom remind me of Stardust Speedway's cityscapes more than anything. It's just more structured than Lost World's genuine void of food. 

Further, the presence of "stars" and a "horizon" indicates that this is still a sky, regardless of how violet in hue it is.

[Bobnik]

7 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

Lemme just correct you there:

You forgot that one facebook page tho...

On topic (somewhat), I never liked any food-themed level in any platformer, so both Sweet Mountain and Dessert Ruin suck for me and I hope there's nothing like that in this game. That would be my first true dissapointment for this game.

[Sonikko]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

What aside from the name shows any indication that it's a city/plant/factory/industrial area? It's a bunch of abstract multicolored platforms and giant instruments in a starry pink void. Basically the only difference is that there's no gravity gimmick.

It's a little different, since Music Plant is at least structurally built on something, there's this Plant in the background and the level itself is not made of literally floating straws. It's very unrealistic but it's still grounded in some way. 

[Zippo]

2 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

This debate is giving me a cavity.

Can we at least agree that Sonic Advance 2 is better than Sonic Lost World?

 

100 percent.  

As Greg said, Sonic Lost World controls just as badly as Sonic Underground looks. 

[Chris Knopps]

13 minutes ago, Zippo said:

100 percent.  

As Greg said, Sonic Lost World controls just as badly as Sonic Underground looks. 

Ehhhh...

The controls as a whole wasn't bad, it was that dad dim wonky as peas parkour system that latched onto everything, half the time against your intentions.

[TheOcelot]

19 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Ehhhh...

The controls as a whole wasn't bad, it was that dad dim wonky as peas parkour system that latched onto everything, half the time against your intentions.

The normal (non-parkour) controls in SLW are complete shit. The actual parkour controls aren't terrible, it's just that the game doesn't do a good job of explaining how to use them :V

[Blue Blood]

20 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Ehhhh...

The controls as a whole wasn't bad, it was that dad dim wonky as peas parkour system that latched onto everything, half the time against your intentions.

It controlled like the bastard child of Sonic 4 and a bootleg Mario game. 

The controls weren't great even if you take the parkour completely out of the equation. Sonic stops on a dime on air or the ground the moment you stop pushing the analogue stick and has two binary speeds. You could get used to it like I have, but it was never good nor intuitive. Silent Forest 2 was notoriously difficult because of how badly Sonic controlled (which only made the searchlight part even worse). Still, Lost World Wii U controlled a lot better than Lost World 3DS. 

I wonder how well Modern Sonic will control in this game. Classic is basically the same as Generations, but we've not actually seen anything that allows us to see how Modern Sonic controls. He was better in Generations than in Colours that was also an improvement on Unleashed. Even in Generations it was poor though. No aerial movement at all, and a very stiff turning circle when walking. The aerial control will still be rubbish, we can tell that much from Classic, but with any luck he'll finally control naturally in foot when not boosting. 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, OcelotBot said:

The normal (non-parkour) controls in SLW are complete shit. The actual parkour controls aren't terrible, it's just that the game doesn't do a good job of explaining how to us them :V

Asides the parkour I didn't really have any problems with the controls. I didn't like the jerky stop-go thing going on when running about but it wasn't terrible really. I did like the way you kept momentum when jumping too.

I wish the stop-go thing was fixed in Forces but it seems a bit worse this time, especially if you notice how the springs work with Classic Sonic as they stop you and send you straight up from the way it looks instead of allowing you to keep going in the direction you were headed.

[Blue Blood]

7 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I wish the stop-go thing was fixed in Forces but it seems a bit worse this time, especially if you notice how the springs work with Classic Sonic as they stop you and send you straight up from the way it looks instead of allowing you to keep going in the direction you were headed.

This is literally how it's been in every game since Unleashed (or Adventure even, to a slightly lesser extent). It's one of the big problems with Sonic 4 too. It's not to do with how Sonic controls though, but instead it's just because the springs are scripted events rather than objects that push Sonic in a certain direction like in the Classics. The springs that you're talking about in Green Hill are basically dash pads that are pointed upwards. It's so shiiiiiiiit and I'd be much more open to Forces if Sonic Team could learn to create a proper engine and level design that don't require everything to be scripted. 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Blue Blood said:

This is literally how it's been in every game since Unleashed (or Adventure even). It's one of the big problems with Sonic 4 too. It's not too do with how Sonic controls though, but instead it's just because the springs are scripted events rather than objects that push Sonic in a certain direction like in the Classics. The springs that you're talking about in Green Hill aye basically dash pads that are pointed upwards. It's so shiiiiiiiit and I'd be much more open to Forces if Sonic Team could learn to create a proper engine and level design that don't require everything to be scripted. 

Ah... I didn't really notice it until I saw Forces for some reason, but it could be because of how cluttered/tight the stage design is. It feels pushed together in a lot of places except that looooooonnnnng bridge you run across.

[Darinian]

2 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

This is literally how it's been in every game since Unleashed (or Adventure even, to a slightly lesser extent). It's one of the big problems with Sonic 4 too. It's not to do with how Sonic controls though, but instead it's just because the springs are scripted events rather than objects that push Sonic in a certain direction like in the Classics. The springs that you're talking about in Green Hill are basically dash pads that are pointed upwards. It's so shiiiiiiiit and I'd be much more open to Forces if Sonic Team could learn to create a proper engine and level design that don't require everything to be scripted. 

I'd have to disagree because Sonic 4 had  it where when you were going  enough and homing attacked a spring you would go diagonally. It doesn't happen , probably like 4 times because of level layout but still.

[Blue Blood]

15 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Ah... I didn't really notice it until I saw Forces for some reason, but it could be because of how cluttered/tight the stage design is. It feels pushed together in a lot of places except that looooooonnnnng bridge you run across.

Yeah, I feel kinda vindicated that more people are starting to noticed and be bothered by it nowadays. I remember pointing it out in Sonic 4, Colours, and Generations, and people told me I was just looking for reasons to hate on the games. It won't bother everyone that the games work like this, but I can't imagine that it would bother anyone if the games were built in such a way that scripting wasn't necessary. Or even if it wasn't there at every point for no reason, like it is with the booster and springs in Forces Green Hill.

12 minutes ago, Zoroark & Flare said:

I'd have to disagree because Sonic 4 had  it where when you were going  enough and homing attacked a spring you would go diagonally. It doesn't happen , probably like 4 times because of level layout but still.

Momentarily. Try hitting a spring, with or without the homing attack, and don't hold any directional input. Sonic will cease all horizontal movement very quickly. Or heck, just watch this trailer at 0:28. Sonic 4 is a totally different engine to the Generations/Forces (obviously) so it does things differently. But springs in that game are still pretty much the same as the are in the 3D games - they neuter player control until the scripted event is over.