Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Blue Blood]

1 hour ago, Gatestormer said:

Surely it's all proportional to the investment in development time and budget though. I'd wager Mania is cheaper and faster to make than Forces. 

The end profit for Mania could be bigger than Forces without selling as many copies. 

No you must accept that Sonic Forces is the Sonic game that will reunify the fractured fanbase and that has already repaired all of the damage done by Lost World and Boom by appealing to Modern and Classic fans. It will succeed in making Sonic and SEGA reclaim their rightful throne. Sonic Mania will not reach the heights that Sonic Forces is destined for and you need to realise that.

*ahem*

Forces and Mania are very different games on every front. From SEGA's point of view at least, Mania is more experimental and is a title with a far smaller scope. Mania is obviously in a significantly lesser budget, but it's also being delivered digitally only and will probably have a much longer shelf-life. Whether or not it outperforms Forces is pretty irrelevant because it will probably be an evergreen title just like other digital Sonic games. Though if it beats put Forces in sales, profits or reviews I'll be laughing. 

[Zaysho]

3 hours ago, Joseph Mello said:

I doubt that that this 3rd character is so important, and is not "you" in a sense. Just a new male cat (?) character.

Hate repeating myself, but that silhouette looks generic and boring. Like a default "cat" option for a character maker. Every Sonic character has a recognizable silhouette.

 

Unless this character looks cool somehow, I want it to be customizable.

 

...Maybe is just that awful pose that is making the silhouette worse than it looks..

To be fair, we have characters like Knuckles who really don't look like much from the back. I guess you never know. Blaze was also shown completely in shadow, but then she had flames and things to sort of create interest (though it wasn't totally indicative of her final design). I will say when I see this shot, I always default to it being some type of canine/wolf. Probably because of how the fur flares out at the sides and the ears.

Guess it's kind of hard to judge one way or the other though. Can't say I'd want a player-created character, though, but that idea is so far removed from what I'd like to see (I want the other characters back, dammit) that I'd sooner take some random one-off character if I was forced to choose.

[Nepenthe]

The head shape is pretty much Blaze's sans ponytail. Everything else is nearly indistinguishable (they might have large cuffs on their gloves) because of the smoke.

And being that all we have to go on is the head, I'm not convinced that that one facet of Blaze's that's missing here just suddenly elevates her silhouette to MAXIMUM CREATIVITY or whatever.

In other words, y'all trippin'.

[Zaysho]

10 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

The head shape is pretty much Blaze's sans ponytail. Everything else is nearly indistinguishable (they might have large cuffs on their gloves) because of the smoke.

And being that all we have to go on is the head, I'm not convinced that that one facet of Blaze's that's missing here just suddenly elevates her silhouette to MAXIMUM CREATIVITY or whatever.

In other words, y'all trippin'.

I was referring to her prototype design which had more to it than just her ponytail and whatever else

Just that the flames themselves created something more interesting at first glance than others. Of course, none of this is even part of her final design.

 

EDIT: The funny part is I sketched a bunch of characters from the back to see after my last post and I kinda take back what I said about Knuckles since he has his spiked boxing gloves, though his head really isn't that interesting from the back xD

[Celestia]

5 hours ago, Forte-Metallix said:

And this confirms the new face is a dude. That customization rumor is looking less and less likely.

It could also mean girls aren't an option. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest.

(But Lord-Dreamerz has a point about translation quirks, so yeah, that shouldn't be taken as confirmation of anything.)

[Sega DogTagz]

4 hours ago, FFWF said:

I suppose in fairness it wouldn't have to be a cat; it could be some other animal, conceivably wildly obscure, which just happens to look like a cat as drawn,

 

 

Well if it is a cat, its not like it can't branch out into something interesting. It could be a tiger, a leopard, a cheetah (gotta go fast), a puma or any of the other felines out there. There is plenty of opportunity to throw us a little curveball.We could use some more characters with spots/stripes - even if they are a pain to keep on model in drawings.

 

 

4 hours ago, FFWF said:

or it could even be a completely fictitious species like Sticks the "Jungle Badger."

 

Isn't Big often referred to as a "Jungle Cat"?

[Indigo Rush]

6 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Isn't Big often referred to as a "Jungle Cat"?

This is the first time I've ever heard this.

[JosepHenry]

The silhouette of this character just looks generic, but since I'm hopeless and hopeful, I think that they still can surprise me. Nibrock-Rock surprised me with "Thin The Cat". I kinda liked that design. 

I can see enough of the body to see that he doesn't seem to wear clothes or other acessories besides normal gloves and shoes. And his body shape looks too thin.

When I say "looks" I don't mean that it "is". So please don't say things like 100% sure that I'm right. Okay?

[Zaysho]

1 minute ago, Joseph Mello said:

When I say "looks" I don't mean that it "is". So please don't say things like 100% sure that I'm right. Okay?

I didn't say that.

That and I'm doubling back on what I did say after just sitting down and drawing for a few minutes. lol

[JosepHenry]

I didn't say it was you Zaysho!  Just defending myself if something like that happens.

Anyway, I was thinking about what Azoo said... I wonder if we could have a Hub World with sidequests and minigames? Maybe talk with Sonic's friends, minigames like golf, pinball and a Chao Garden?

[antyep]

Here's a question; why hide this character if it's supposedly a "new" character? Unless this is a "create a character"-character, it's almost as if Sega is afraid we'll reconginze this "new" character.

[Diogenes]

3 minutes ago, antyep said:

Here's a question; why hide this character if it's supposedly a "new" character? Unless this is a "create a character"-character, it's almost as if Sega is afraid we'll reconginze this "new" character.

...to promote speculation and drive up hype for the full reveal?

It's very obviously not any existing character anyway.

[Chris Knopps]

Question...

What's up with using random lines from the game to promote it...?

I mean... Is that even doing anything?

Look what teasing Eggman's lines did for Lost World.

[Wraith]

They're just letting out snippets as a teaser. That's normal.

There's no critical flaw or example of Sega's long standing incompetency with everything they do.

[Indigo Rush]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

Question...

What's up with using random lines from the game to promote it...?

I mean... Is that even doing anything?

Look what teasing Eggman's lines did for Lost World.

Eggman's line teasing wasn't really teasing, that was from the ESRB page for Lost World to indicate moments that a parent might find unsuitable for children. 

Also, I think showing lines from the script is just Shun Nakamura having fun. That, or they're trying to prove to fans that there actually is a script. Which... ok.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Indigo Rush said:

Eggman's line teasing wasn't really teasing, that was from the ESRB page for Lost World to indicate moments that a parent might find unsuitable for children. 

Also, I think showing lines from the script is just Shun Nakamura having fun. That, or they're trying to prove to fans that there actually is a script. Which... ok.

I dunno... It's not that I'm saying it's a matter of incompetency like @Josh mentioned but rather...

It just seems strange to me is all. One of those...

"Okay then"

Kind of things. Not bad, just... I guess different.

Though being honest, I'd rather not have lines from the game spoiled, especially what could be potentially the best ones.

[Blue Blood]

18 minutes ago, antyep said:

Here's a question; why hide this character if it's supposedly a "new" character? Unless this is a "create a character"-character, it's almost as if Sega is afraid we'll reconginze this "new" character.

Because it's a pretty standard way of getting people's attention. You're really grasping hard here. Plus Sonic has done this before:

Though I hope this reveal doesn't let us all down like Sonic 4's. Oh what could have been...

[Chris Knopps]

4 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Because it's a pretty standard way of getting people's attention. You're really grasping hard here. 

I will say I liked Unleashed's teaser for the Werehog better.

That was just...

WWWRRRRAAAAAAARRRRGH!!!! -blam- Poor ring...

That was the greatest "holy sh@t!" moment ever in this franchise for me.

...I loved Unleashed.

[Kintor]

4 hours ago, Gatestormer said:

Surely it's all proportional to the investment in development time and budget though. I'd wager Mania is cheaper and faster to make than Forces. 

The end profit for Mania could be bigger than Forces without selling as many copies. 

You're just shifting the goal posts from overall sales to something more nebulas like 'proportional investment'. The scale of Sonic Forces is such that the it will still have the bigger cash pile in the end. That even if Sonic Mania does somehow manage to sell more copies then Sonic Forces that won't make a difference to Sega's bottom line when Sonic Forces still makes the greater profit. For example, It’s like the difference between a $10,000,000 of Sonic Mania and a $100,000,000, if both go on to sell a million copies. When most Sonic fans end up buying both games in the end, it's Sonic Forces (as the bigger Sonic game) that comes out ahead.

3 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

No you must accept that Sonic Forces is the Sonic game that will reunify the fractured fanbase and that has already repaired all of the damage done by Lost World and Boom by appealing to Modern and Classic fans. It will succeed in making Sonic and SEGA reclaim their rightful throne. Sonic Mania will not reach the heights that Sonic Forces is destined for and you need to realise that.

And here I thought you were getting kind tired of posting in this thread. I guess not. Makes my offer of being more considerate towards you seem kind of pointless now. Regardless, your condescending tone aside Sonic Forces is actually doing much the repair the damage done to the Sonic franchise in the wake of Sonic Boom and Lost World. Your continued cynic and negative comments towards Sonic Forces hasn't been able to revere the increasingly positive trend of these last few months as the hype for Sonic Forces continues to build.

[Nepenthe]

He's not moving the goal posts. Profit margins are measured not just by revenue, but by revenue - overhead.

Making a billion dollars off of a $100,000 venture is better than making it off of a $900,000,000 venture, even though in both instances you "made a billion dollars."

We need to know both Mania and Force's budgets before we can really start comparing the potential profit margins. But the general point is that Mania doesn't have as big of a threshold to reach as Forces does to be considered "profitable."

[Kintor]

2 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

He's not moving the goal posts. Profit margins are measured not just by revenue, but by revenue - overhead.

Making a billion dollars off of a $100,000 venture is better than making it off of a $900,000,000 venture, even though in both instances you "made a billion dollars."

We need to know both Mania and Force's budgets before we can really start comparing the potential profit margins. But the general point is that Mania doesn't have as big of a threshold to reach as Forces does to be considered "profitable."

Except that Sonic Mania isn't going to make the same gross profits as Sonic Forces, owing to its smaller price point when most Sonic fans are going to buy both games anyway. That 1:1 Sonic Mania will match the copies sold of Sonic Forces at best, which won't be enough to match the actual sales since Sonic Forces is being sold at a higher price point. This idea that Sonic Forces budget will eat into the overall profits is a crutch, a clever excuse to try and put Sonic Mania on the same level as Sonic Forces when in reality that's just not going to happen. Sonic Mania is going to do fine upon release but to expect it to suddenly make more money than Sonic Forces is delusional, requiring all sorts of mental gymnastics to ignore the fundamental economics involved.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

1 minute ago, Kintor said:

Except that Sonic Mania isn't going to make the same gross profits as Sonic Forces, owing to its smaller price point when most Sonic fans are going to buy both games anyway. That 1:1 Sonic Mania will match the copies sold of Sonic Forces at best, which won't be enough to match the actual sales since Sonic Forces is being sold at a higher price point. This idea that Sonic Forces budget will eat into the overall profits is a crutch, a clever excuse to try and put Sonic Mania on the same level as Sonic Forces when in reality that's just not going to happen. Sonic Mania is going to do fine upon release but to expect it to suddenly make more money than Sonic Forces is delusional, requiring all sorts of mental gymnastics to ignore the fundamental economics involved.

You mean the same gymnastics you're doing to justify your insane brand of logic that I've completely lost the ability to follow due to how circular and all over the place it is despite that being a contradiction?

[Nepenthe]

Yes. It's probably not going to make the same total revenue barring some ridiculous miracle.

But what you're ignoring is that it's not as expensive to make.

This is why profit margins- like the box office- are measured as the difference between the money spent and the money gained, instead of just the money gained. Because the whole point of a business is to spend money to make back as much as you can relative to those expenses.

This is why Blair Witch Project is an absolute historical gangbuster of a release and Batman V. Superman was a hilarious disappointment, even though BvS made about $500,000 more than Blair Witch did.

Accounting for your expenditures is not a crutch. It's fucking business 101.

[Kintor]

1 minute ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

You mean the same gymnastics you're doing to justify your insane brand of logic that I've completely lost the ability to follow due to how circular and all over the place it is despite that being a contradiction?

If you have a specific problem with any of the arguments I've made in this thread then by all means create an argument of your own. For example, if you disagree with the economics that point to Sonic Forces making a greater profit then you make a measured comment to that affect.

[Blue Blood]

24 minutes ago, Kintor said:

You're just shifting the goal posts from overall sales to something more nebulas like 'proportional investment'. The scale of Sonic Forces is such that the it will still have the bigger cash pile in the end. That even if Sonic Mania does somehow manage to sell more copies then Sonic Forces that won't make a difference to Sega's bottom line when Sonic Forces still makes the greater profit. For example, It’s like the difference between a $10,000,000 of Sonic Mania and a $100,000,000, if both go on to sell a million copies. When most Sonic fans end up buying both games in the end, it's Sonic Forces (as the bigger Sonic game) that comes out ahead.

And here I thought you were getting kind tired of posting in this thread. I guess not. Makes my offer of being more considerate towards you seem kind of pointless now. Regardless, your condescending tone aside Sonic Forces is actually doing much the repair the damage done to the Sonic franchise in the wake of Sonic Boom and Lost World. Your continued cynic and negative comments towards Sonic Forces hasn't been able to revere the increasingly positive trend of these last few months as the hype for Sonic Forces continues to build.

Had a rest, no longer feeling tired.

No seriously, I'm not trying to reverse any trend that may or may not exist. All that I really want to do is make a point of how silly you sound in hopes that you'll think a little bit more critically about what you're saying. Forces has its pros and cons, and we certainly don't know nearly enough about the capital and other resources invested in either it or Mania to predict how successful the games may be. You don't have say only positive things about the game. You can be neutral or objective, and don't have to makfacts any "facts" about the economics of accuse others of moving goalposts.