Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (Wii U)

[The Deleter]

Ratchet's grinding segments last 10 seconds though. Maybe 20 at most. This lasts like, two minutes. I can beat City Escape in that time.

 

Complex level design gives you something to do. Even if it's a transition level, it should be engaging. The speed section don't look engaging.

 

This IS the part where I'll look at other Sonic games because this is the part it has in common - speed levels. The speed levels in the main games are good, making these different is fine but the change detracts.

Not in All 4 One, they don't. And A4O's grinding sections are the best out of them all because of this.

 

It's not supposed to be engaging level design-wise, though. That's the whole point. You're asking for more out of the level design, when it's supposed to be cinematic. It's like asking for more challenging level design out of a roller coaster because the experience isn't what you came for. The cinematic background and storyline is the engaging part about it, and should sustain your attention span for at least as long as it is there. If you don't think that'll tide you over, fine, the cinematic element of it might be objectively dull, or this game isn't made for you in the first place probably. But seeing as this is the first speed section in the game, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to tide players over fairly well, given that speed and ginormous raceways in the mountains were never shown before in the game. And, as shown in the trailer, story like Lyric escaping will be portrayed in it, and complex level design would just distract your attention away from it towards itself. So from my point of view, no, these levels are definitely engaging enough, experience-wise.

[Blue Blood]

Well, the first trailer kinda did what most Sonic games do, take all the cool stuff and mash it together to make a quick, hyping video to make the audience do a bunch of guesswork since you can't get an idea of what the game is about that way.

 

I'm talking purely about the graphics here, which have undoubtedly gone through a downgrade since the February reveal. And considering we've had mixed reports about the game running poorly, you can understand why. 

[Tracker_TD]

Not in All 4 One, they don't. And A4O's grinding sections are the best out of them all because of this.

 

It's not supposed to be engaging level design-wise, though. That's the whole point. You're asking for more out of the level design, when it's supposed to be cinematic. It's like asking for more challenging level design out of a roller coaster because the experience isn't what you came for. The cinematic background and storyline is the engaging part about it, and should sustain your attention span for at least as long as it is there. If you don't think that'll tide you over, fine, the cinematic element of it might be objectively dull, or this game isn't made for you in the first place probably. But seeing as this is the first speed section in the game, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to tide players over fairly well, given that speed and ginormous raceways in the mountains were never shown before in the game. And, as shown in the trailer, story like Lyric escaping will be portrayed in it, and complex level design would just distract your attention away from it towards itself. So from my point of view, no, these levels are definitely engaging enough, experience-wise.

 

If it's not engaging, it's not fun. Simple. Throw all the pretty cinematic flourishes at it you want, it needs to be engaging to be fun as an interactive experience. If the speed stages are different from the main games, fine - hell, they'd likely be better. This is not better.

 

This is Sonic Dash in HD as part of a fully priced game, making up a level the length of Emerald Coast in Sonic Adventure. 

And of course the game's not made for me, it's made for it's target demographic. Doesn't make it immune to criticism. 

 

With stuff like Lyric escaping and the like, complex level design would do jack all. Sonic 3's Marble Garden had complex level design, but still added the parts were Eggman appeared at points throughout the level. This is barely any different except they're sacrificing the level design to do it for no reason.

 

Hell, even just something small like alternate pathways for extra bonuses I'd be fine with. This is just pointless, not engaging, and should be a short cutscene. Save the speed levels for were a cutscene couldn't offer the nigh same engagement as a level, i.e. not here.

[Nepenthe]

Wait what? The speed level is not supposed to be engaging design-wise because it's cinematic? 

 

So we should actually not expect cinematic gameplay to actively engage the player while they're playing it? Large connective pieces of active gameplay don't have to be engaging because the story is supposedly the best part?

 

This literally doesn't make sense.

[The Deleter]

With stuff like Lyric escaping and the like, complex level design would do jack all. Sonic 3's Marble Garden had complex level design, but still added the parts were Eggman appeared at points throughout the level. This is barely any different except they're sacrificing the level design to do it for no reason.

 

Hell, even just something small like alternate pathways for extra bonuses I'd be fine with. This is just pointless, not engaging, and should be a short cutscene. Save the speed levels for were a cutscene couldn't offer the nigh same engagement as a level, i.e. not here.

Except the level design stopped you in one area when the cutscene happened. It literally diverged you from the level design's attention so that you would pay attention to what's going on. Same thing for the airship chase, same thing for the Gun truck, etc. etc.

 

Though, the level design already contains alternate pathways and small bonuses, so I don't see what the problem is.

[Tracker_TD]

Except the level design stopped you in one area when the cutscene happened. It literally diverged you from the level design's attention so that you would pay attention to what's going on. Same thing for the airship chase, same thing for the Gun truck, etc. etc.

 

Though, the level design already contains alternate pathways and small bonuses, so I don't see what the problem is.

 

GUN Truck didn't stop the level though. If anything that's an example of it being integrated into the level design.

 

Also upon another look, you're right about the alternate paths. That said, what throws me off is there's no actual ingenuity in finding these routes. It's just "press this button at a certain time." That's not how alternate paths in a platformer should work. Stuff like Sonic 2 hit it right on the head, as mediocre as I find that game. You had to explore for that stuff. Here, the crappy autopilot stops that.

[Diogenes]

It's not supposed to be engaging level design-wise, though. That's the whole point.

Well it sounds like a worthless load of shit then.

[The Deleter]

GUN Truck didn't stop the level though. If anything that's an example of it being integrated into the level design.

 

Also upon another look, you're right about the alternate paths. That said, what throws me off is there's no actual ingenuity in finding these routes. It's just "press this button at a certain time." That's not how alternate paths in a platformer should work. Stuff like Sonic 2 hit it right on the head, as mediocre as I find that game. You had to explore for that stuff. Here, the crappy autopilot stops that.

GUN truck didn't stop you, true, but it didn't have level design that detracted from the moment, either. No death traps, no enemies, nothing. The GUN truck was the focus, as shown by the camera facing towards it rather than where you were going. Same applies to the airship chase in Sonic 3, the boulder segment in Sonic Adventure, and so on. It's focused on the ride, not the obstacles.

 

And apparently it took more ingenuity than looking at the stage just once.

[Tracker_TD]

GUN truck didn't stop you, true, but it didn't have level design that detracted from the moment, either. No death traps, no enemies, nothing. The GUN truck was the focus, as shown by the camera facing towards it rather than where you were going. Same applies to the airship chase in Sonic 3, the boulder segment in Sonic Adventure, and so on. It's focused on the ride, not the obstacles.

 

And apparently it took more ingenuity than looking at the stage just once.

 

Haha, true on the last point!  

 

The GUN truck DID throw ramps and stuff at you though, and in Generations it affected the level design itself.

Also regardless of how many views it took for me to notice, it's still not on par with how a game with solid level design should do it, again due to the autopilot. No real effort beyond clicking a button at a different time is required. With other games, alternate paths require you to explore, and as such engage the player.

[Wittymations]

I'm talking purely about the graphics here, which have undoubtedly gone through a downgrade since the February reveal. And considering we've had mixed reports about the game running poorly, you can understand why. 

Oh. I gotta stop speed-reading. My bad.

 

[BonkersTheAutomaton]

Ratchet's grinding segments last 10 seconds though. Maybe 20 at most. This lasts like, two minutes. I can beat City Escape in that time.

 

Complex level design gives you something to do. Even if it's a transition level, it should be engaging. The speed section don't look engaging.

 

This IS the part where I'll look at other Sonic games because this is the part it has in common - speed levels. The speed levels in the main games are good, making these different is fine but the change detracts.

 

Perhaps their trying to have at least a little bit of sonic tradition here in terms of speed and make a level/loading area be lengthy to boot so that it makes the game feel fast.  It could be this whole "woh we are going really fast this looks really cool" but then all of a sudden it only last 10 - 20 secs and all of a sudden you are feeling down because you want it to last longer.

[Shadow hte hedgehog]

I wonder if this agruement will last 4 months....

It will go further. A lot further. Maybe a year.

P.S To everybody that has button mashed W101: how did you beat the shield enemies, let alone the final boss?

Edited July 9, 2014 by Shadow hte hedgehog

[KrazyBean]

It will go further. A lot further. Maybe a year.

P.S To everybody that has button mashed W101: how did you beat the shield enemies, let alone the final boss?

 

I'd like to know this as well. Cause they definitely kicked my ass when trying to play skillfully.

[SlickEvan]

I still don't get how button mashing makes a game inherently less fun or combat dull. Sonic Battle was nothing but button mashing but was able to make a pretty cool game which strategy was needed to pass levels in the story and was still an overall fun experience (Imo) 

 

I think what people are getting at with the W101 button mashing (i haven't played or even seen that game before) is that a game can still be fun if you button mash and it doesn't automatically make it bad if you can. As a lot of people said earlier about this 101 game that you have to do more complex things than button mash and that's the beauty of it, people can mash until they learn the ins and outs whenever they get challenged with an obstacle button mashing can't beat. In a fighting game even, button mashing is used and used effectively even beating pro's sometimes and both sides of the party can still have fun. My brothers in Tekken button mash and I used to and they would literally buy these games but not learn the moves besides maybe 1 or 2 and still have a blast, later on I decided to learn the in's and out's and even when facing my brothers, holding the clear advantage everyone was still able to have fun and I think that's what people are trying to get at.

 

It's not the pure fact you can button mash because in many games it's possible but the fact you can still have fun doing it.

 

Everyone is looking at it in extreme's: If it's a button masher, it's boring. That doesn't have to be the case and really isn't.

[Wraith]

I think you guys are taking the term "Button Mashing" too literally. All people are saying is that there's no depth to the combat, which is a problem in a combat focused game since most gamers are going to be looking for a bit more depth than that.  

[superwplf]

Sonic Battle is a fighting game spin-off, no shit it relied on combat.

Sonic and the Black Knight was friggin' awful combat wise, and was even more monotonous than Boom is looking. Also, it was another spin-off, as opposed to "Modern Sonic" gameplay as we know it.

Sonic Unleashed's combat was actually alright, and whilst somewhat misplaced, was way more fleshed out than Boom is looking.

I didn't even reply to you with that comment, why did you answer it? I don't know what your talking about I think sonic boom was fleshed out when I played the demo.

[Tracker_TD]

I didn't even reply to you with that comment, why did you answer it? I don't know what your talking about I think sonic boom was fleshed out when I played the demo.

 

I answered it because there's nothing stopping me from replying to a public post on a forum. 

 

And good for you. I've not played the demo. I'm going off what we've been given. And I think it looks crap.

[Citizen Sweeps]

A question:

 

 

Will there be any chance that the Wii U Game Pad can be used as a Miles Electric (like the communicator used in Lego City Undercover) in the final game?

 

I'm actually more interested in how the hell the Miles Electric even works in this universe. Is it me or does it look like it's made of stone or something here? Could be the lighting but that's what it looks like to me.

[PickleBrows]

I'm actually more interested in how the hell the Miles Electric even works in this universe. Is it me or does it look like it's made of stone or something here? Could be the lighting but that's what it looks like to me.

 

To me it looks like the two "stone" pieces join together when it is not in use, notice how the circle patterns on either side match up with each other. It seems like when turned on a holographic screen is formed between them and the entire thing is touch operated.

[MegasonicZX]

I think you guys are taking the term "Button Mashing" too literally. All people are saying is that there's no depth to the combat, which is a problem in a combat focused game since most gamers are going to be looking for a bit more depth than that.  

But we haven't really seen this games depth yet or see anybody make use of it, just the bare minimum, its like if you played the beginning of DMC 4 without the upgrades and stopped right there without trucking on a bit further which is the exact same thing here because from just this demo alone. How do we know if the combat doesn't get more in depth later on, how do we know that the potentially unlockable moves won't make it more fun and make encounters go by more smoothly? Sure it won't reach the level of a platinum game (heck what action game can) but it could still be better than what we've been shown here. Like what has been said before this could all just be bad marketing on SEGA's part (or not but who knows).

[Wraith]

But we haven't really seen this games depth yet or see anybody make use of it, just the bare minimum, its like if you played the beginning of DMC 4 without the upgrades and stopped right there without trucking on a bit further which is the exact same thing here because from just this demo alone. How do we know if the combat doesn't get more in depth later on, how do we know that the potentially unlockable moves won't make it more fun and make encounters go by more smoothly? Sure it won't reach the level of a platinum game (heck what action game can) but it could still be better than what we've been shown here. Like what has been said before this could all just be bad marketing on SEGA's part (or not but who knows).

 

 

 

Even with a simplistic demo, other parts of Bayonetta's advertising show off the type of shit you can pull off later on. I don't think they'd choose not to show off the potential of the combat in any of the trailers. If they didn't...well that's pretty dumb on their part.

 

We have to go off what they're giving us. If all this is just bad marketing then...well, they've failed at gathering my interest. I'm not going to stay hooked on the game for the off chance that there's some hidden brilliant game design in here that they just chose not to show off.  

 

I don't really believe this game is aimed at us anyways. I'm sure the kids'll love it, since that's who they're going for in the end. Still, aiming it at all audiences would have done much more for Sonic Boom as a brand. 

[MegasonicZX]

 

Even with a simplistic demo, other parts of Bayonetta's advertising show off the type of shit you can pull off later on. I don't think they'd choose not to show off the potential of the combat in any of the trailers. If they didn't...well that's pretty dumb on their part.

 

We have to go off what they're giving us. If all this is just bad marketing then...well, they've failed at gathering my interest. I'm not going to stay hooked on the game for the off chance that there's some hidden brilliant game design in here that they just chose not to show off.  

 

I don't really believe this game is aimed at us anyways. I'm sure the kids'll love it, since that's who they're going for in the end. Still, aiming it at all audiences would have done much more for Sonic Boom as a brand. 

The DMC4 example  was a bit more like this situation, thats why I used it but yeah, fair point.

 

Edit: You know what? Scratch that because now i'm remembering that the DMC4 trailers did a pretty good job of showing off things later on too so my bad.

[superwplf]

Postives?

Edit: I won't mention names but, some idiot told me to make this bigger so, here you go.

[Enesephus]

Postives?

Care to make a post longer than one word long? I'm not even sure what you're asking.

[BonkersTheAutomaton]

Care to make a post longer than one word long? I'm not even sure what you're asking.

I think he is asking what everyone on this post thinks is a positive to Rise of Lyric.

 

Postives?

Well in my opinion nearly everything about this game to me looks incredibly exciting.  And I know that is feels like I'm the only one saying it but I am truly looking forward to this game.  Nothing in particular about this game gives me chills of enjoyment with maybe being the gameplay it self.  I'm perfectly fine with any game franchise changing its formulas so long as that formula looks good.