Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (Wii U)

[Tani Coyote]

Please keep in mind that Sonic Team is the reason Sonic even still exists while Big Red Button as a team has never actually made a game before this one.

I can still call my parents and their parents foolish when they do something that is such even though I wouldn't be here without them.

 

I mean, I get that we hate Sonic Team right now, I really do, but...you know this isn't just some team of former Naughty Dog staff that decided to up and leave Naughty Dog, right? There are veterans from other companies and newcomers here too. They're essentially an entirely new team. A fresh face.  This idea that if something goes wrong it's probably Sonic Team's fault is....kind of annoying, really, since Big Red Button are the ones with their names stamped all over it. Sonic Team isn't even namedropped in any of the official stuff.

 

If something goes wrong with this game,wouldn't it make sense to hold the people who actually made the game and are bragging about how good the game is accountable? I know Sonic Team does a lot of stupid things but let's not be irrational.

If Sonic Team is directing the game in any manner, something going wrong with it very much is their fault. They've more than once changed things, which makes me think they have legitimate power on the project.

BRB is indeed a new team, but the difference is most of its members are from teams associated with hits. Sonic Team is sadly not known for producing hits on a regular basis. While there is always the possibility BRB is at fault (after all, Naughty Dog and other devs were being directed by other groups and that would explain the pre-Boom quality) in some manner, the fact is I have more reason to trust their judgment on design than Sonic Team's, given the resume. And in turn, I have to view Sonic Team involvement as restraining their potential.

Though, I will be fair and say it can't all be Sonic Team's fault. I don't think Sonic Team controls the marketing of the product, and that's clearly something that's lacking at the moment. It really seems to me that for some reason, the best of the project wasn't brought to E3. It really seems like Sonic Boom merchandise is getting a lot of focus at the expense of the actual product.

[Wittymations]

Considering Iizuka was, from what I heard, shocked to see how the game turned out in a demo, I wonder just how much involvement they had.

 

Apparently, they didn't care enough, otherwise he'd know how the game would have been from the start.

 

I mean, for better or worse, he's supposed to be overseeing the project and he was shocked to see how the game played? Really?

[Tani Coyote]

Considering Iizuka was, from what I heard, shocked to see how the game turned out in a demo, I wonder just how much involvement they had.

 

Apparently, they didn't care enough, otherwise he'd know how the game would have been from the start.

 

I mean, for better or worse, he's supposed to be overseeing the project and he was shocked to see how the game played? Really?

Hmm, well that does make me think BRB might be a tad more at fault, yes.

I think the involvement is moreso quality checks than actual day to day involvement, though. If BRB submits a product that doesn't match Sonic Team's vision, they can be told to change it. Which is why I'm overall concerned at the prospect; BRB is ultimately restricted by what Sonic Team considers proper for the franchise.

It sounds like good or bad, this game will be brought down by pretty awful marketing, though. But since it's a SEGA product, we probably could have seen that coming.

I guess I'll just wait until the review scores come out and have my fingers crossed what was shown at E3 was really just the bottom of the ladder of what the game has to offer.

To add onto the E3 point... a part of me considers if maybe the poor graphics being released shortly before better graphics COULD have been part of a ploy to try and show how much the game can improve in a short span of time, to try and generate more optimism? With so much negativity, anything that shows improvement can be a good thing.

[Celestia]

If Sonic Team is directing the game in any manner, something going wrong with it very much is their fault. They've more than once changed things, which makes me think they have legitimate power on the project.

The team (or, at least, Iizuka himself) having some amount of power over the project probably doesn't mean much. At most they might be able to veto certain things. I don't know why you're being so defensive of the team who hasn't even released their first game yet.

 

BRB is indeed a new team, but the difference is most of its members are from teams associated with hits.

That means nothing on it's own. Nothing. Sure, it sounds good on paper, but it's not absolutely certain that this combination of people can work well together. It's arguably even more risky than an already existing dev team replacing a few members, because in this case a good deal of these people may not have worked together before! Having experience and being a part of a team that made something good in the past doesn't guarantee anything.

 

And in turn, I have to view Sonic Team involvement as restraining their potential.

What, do you think BRB were making a game that looks ~absolutely amazing~ and then Sonic Team stepped in and said "haha, no"?

I actually like the look of this game, but prematurely blaming any issues people have with it now or after it's released on Sonic Team, with literally no basis for it, is ridiculous.

[SlickEvan]

I think it's less just blaming Sonic Team for faults but more or less concerned of their "vision" of Sonic. What happened behind closed doors, who knows? But I think it's more or less the trust of Sonic Team's judgement. Because it COULD have a lot to do with the results of the game. Who knows maybe the speed sections were Sonic Team saying there's not enough speed? Who knows? 

 

So yeah. It's not, "Sonic Team might be ruining the project" but just as much as BRB is to blame for gameplay decisions, Sonic Team could be at fault for the overall direction they gave. So a lose, lose in hindsight. or maybe a win, win? 

 

Like BRB said "Hey lets add combat and a focus on it!" and as we see, BRB did add combat and a focus to it, so Sonic Team obviously allowed that decision which is them having an "oversight". So like for example the speed sections. (Keep in mind I do like Boom before you tell about how the levels can be different later on and such)

 

So example the speed stages- the first one we saw is admittedly pretty bland and if Sonic Team are overseeing the project helping them make decisions then they had to either approve it? Recommend it? or "oversee" it? So they had a helping hand in the flop or success of Boom. 

 

If you see what I'm getting at. And if this ISN'T the case- and Sonic Team didn't: Recommend, Oversee, or Approve these decisions, then BRB were lying about getting help from and contacting Sonic Team? Which is a really bold statement. 

 

So yeah that's my two cent's at least,

[Blue Blood]

I have a question. To me, this game looks incredibly cheap. Even if you do like how the game is turning out, I'd be surprised if anyone was to say the gameplay looked innovative, engaging, exciting or anything other than incredibly generic and just like every other TV show or movie based beat-em-up platformer game. This particular style of gameplay is used so often because it's very easy to build and is adaptable to just about license. There's nothing about it that says it's inspired or that any real creative thought went into it. So what exactly do you see in the gameplay? What makes it look like a good game that's anything other than the bog-standard to you?

[Nepenthe]

It's less that it looks truly genius and more that it doesn't appear to be completely irredeemable. At least that's the way I personally see it. I feel people are operating on different standards of what "crappy" gameplay is in this topic, or disappointment is lingering- something- and it's the source of my confusion on people's sheer animosity and vitriol over something that doesn't really much warrant it. What we've seen so far is a mix of Skylanders and Modern gameplay, neither of which are godawful but nonetheless might not be one's cup of tea regardless. It certainly doesn't make the game stand out as some AAA effort, but at the same time I'm not seeing anything that's completely devoid of any sense of entertainment value.

 

I don't know; I just don't see why the game can't just be "mediocre" or "alright" or "okay." Apparently it either has to be utter bullshit or something that's perfectly fulfilling whatever arbitrary criteria the fans have set on it and thus great by default. To be honest, I don't get any of you.

[SlickEvan]

I have a question. To me, this game looks incredibly cheap. Even if you do like how the game is turning out, I'd be surprised if anyone was to say the gameplay looked innovative, engaging, exciting or anything other than incredibly generic and just like every other TV show or movie based beat-em-up platformer game. This particular style of gameplay is used so often because it's very easy to build and is adaptable to just about license. There's nothing about it that says it's inspired or that any real creative thought went into it. So what exactly do you see in the gameplay? What makes it look like a good game that's anything other than the big-standard to you?

 

I'll tell you one thing about innovative- this game doesn't look it! (I researched R&C and J&D BRB- I'm on to you) lol, but on a serious note: 

 

I find that it will at the least be exciting and engaging. Why? Maybe it's because I haven't played this style of game before but I think- that it truly looks enjoyable and even if they didn't try to innovate much, they did try to adapt. And pretty well I'll say. If Platforming sections get become more frequent further in the game, I believe it'll be a really fun experience. I definitely see that they adapted a couple of more Sonic styled things into the mix. And if the "Guardian Section" is anything to go by there might be a couple good set pieces. Not only that but the project looks really involved which is something that I personally haven't seen in ST anytime recently besides Unleashed. It's like ST after getting Sonic back into good shape just capitalized on what people liked. Not saying the games weren't good but they didn't feel inspired anytime afterwards (Okay maybe colors but that's a big maybe for me) 

 

I had to leave mid posts- so I forgot what else I was going to say.

[Celestia]

So yeah. It's not, "Sonic Team might be ruining the project" but just as much as BRB is to blame for gameplay decisions, Sonic Team could be at fault for the overall direction they gave. So a lose, lose in hindsight. or maybe a win, win? 

 

Yeah, I'm certainly not saying that ST isn't involved at all and they're definitely responsible for certain aspects of the game, I'm just saying that, well...I'm frustrated that there's already the attitude of "Everything that people criticize about the game is gonna be Sonic Team's fault and definitely has nothing to do with the people actually making the game." The general attitude towards them since Lost World (or even earlier) has completely baffled me. There's being critical of a game development team, and then there's making them out to be villains actively trying to sabotage everything.

[SlickEvan]

 

Yeah, I'm certainly not saying that ST isn't involved at all and they're definitely responsible for certain aspects of the game, I'm just saying that, well...I'm frustrated that there's already the attitude of "Everything that people criticize about the game is gonna be Sonic Team's fault and definitely has nothing to do with the people actually making the game." The general attitude towards them since Lost World (or even earlier) has completely baffled me. There's being critical of a game development team, and then there's making them out to be villains actively trying to sabotage everything.

 

Fair enough, and very true. The criticism of Sonic Team from some people has been really ridiculous, acting like they're trying to destroy Sonic or something but I can see where some come from as games as of late haven't felt too inspired and lacked in many departments but I definitely see what you're saying. 

[Enesephus]

So what exactly do you see in the gameplay? What makes it look like a good game that's anything other than the bog-standard to you?

 The game just looks like good fun to me. It has just about everything I could want from a Sonic game (with maybe a tad less speed than I'd envisioned), and it looks like a joy to play. It may not be very innovative or highly original in its play style, but it still looks fun (not to mention very pretty, which is a huge plus), and that's all that matters.

 

It also doesn't matter to me if there have been a thousand other licensed games that are beat-em-up platformers, because I've never actually played any licensed games outside of the SpongeBob Movie game (and a couple really good Disney tie in platformers for the Genesis), which I thoroughly enjoyed.

 

It's a little like the first time I ever read a Shonen manga. At the time, I thought it was so cool and unique, but then I found out that the Japanese saw it as old news because they'd already seen the same story a bunch of times. It was just another run of the mill comic to them. That didn't matter to me though, because it was new to me (I don't really read manga anymore, but that's beside the point). Well, this is the same situation. You may have played (or seen) a million beat-em-up platform game tie ins, so this game may not do much for you, but it's cool and neat looking to me, and that's what matters.

[- Eternal Paradox -]

I think there's too much pressure on this game to "Innovate". Not many games these days innovate except indie titles, which can influence other games if successful - such as mine-craft. There are exceptions of course, but there aren't too many changes to games nowadays, apart from maybe a gimmick. This is because of the market and devs playing it safe.

 

Sonic titles, on the other hand, fluctuate between styles frequently. It's a 2D physics platformer... now it's a 3D platformer with loop-de-loops, now it's whatever the heck Heroes was, now it's a R&C style game with loop-de-loops, now it's a corridor speed platformer, now we have free-running, etc. Sonic Boom's a new direction, and many were hoping it would reinvent the franchise in a way that harkened back to the originals (or your favourite gameplay style)... instead, it's kinda PS2 platformer.

 

Why do I like it? Well, it's my kinda gameplay I guess. Simple combat, platforming and puzzles. It's pushing all the right buttons for me. The speed sections look fun but not as intense as boost Sonic. It's nothing outstanding, I wouldn't pay launch price for it, but I will enjoy it anyway.

 

The thing that could possibly bring this game down for me is stretching itself too thin, leading to a loss of quality overall, or bad, broken and unplayable combat (like in the Legend of Spyro games).

[Gabz Girl]

Hang on when did Iizuka say he was shocked when he saw the demo? Does this mean he doesn't like Sonic Boom?

Anyway as someone who really doesn't like the direction Sonic Team is taking their games in recently its not fair to blame them for how Sonic Boom turns out in the end (which might be mixed to negative). BRB are the guys making the game thus they should be criticised.

[Wittymations]

Hang on when did Iizuka say he was shocked when he saw the demo? Does this mean he doesn't like Sonic Boom?

He didn't really say it, I didn't see it myself. But I read a few comments that Iizuka gave a very bad face when he was showing off the demo in some convention.

Which tells me he didn't like it, and if he was making a face, he probably didn't know what to expect. Which makes zero sense since he's supposed to be overseeing this project. He may have let them act very freely besides a few aesthetic choices.

 

As for my opinion on Boom, I'm one of those guys who haven't played any games in this style. So, yeah, to me it's a bit intriguing I guess. I don't have a Wii U, so I really can't play, so it doesn't entirely matter to me. I'm more concerned about what the future decisions will be because of this game.

 

But I hear things like it's generic, not inspired. Stuff like that. Okay, cool, I guess I get that. But why isn't that leading more to "it's an okay game" instead of "crappy game?"

I would think generic games would just fall into the okay range.

[Citizen Sweeps]

Woah, guess I'm in the minority on the whole backstory thing. Ha, that's fine. I suppose it makes sense that after not giving Sonic a backstory for a good couple decades it would seem kind of silly to just suddenly give him one. Ah well, I figured since it was an AU we might get to see a bit of one, but if we don't I'm cool with that too, as long as the story itself is good.
 

 

It's less that it looks truly genius and more that it doesn't appear to be completely irredeemable. At least that's the way I personally see it. I feel people are operating on different standards of what "crappy" gameplay is in this topic, or disappointment is lingering- something- and it's the source of my confusion on people's sheer animosity and vitriol over something that doesn't really much warrant it. What we've seen so far is a mix of Skylanders and Modern gameplay, neither of which are godawful but nonetheless might not be one's cup of tea regardless. It certainly doesn't make the game stand out as some AAA effort, but at the same time I'm not seeing anything that's completely devoid of any sense of entertainment value.

 

I don't know; I just don't see why the game can't just be "mediocre" or "alright" or "okay." Apparently it either has to be utter bullshit or something that's perfectly fulfilling whatever arbitrary criteria the fans have set on it and thus great by default. To be honest, I don't get any of you.

 

Thank you Nepenthe for pretty much summing up my thoughts on the reaction to the game. I see it being "mediocre" at the worst and yet I've seen people spouting nonsense like "Sonic '06 2.0," which just seems silly to me. '06 was a buggy, nearly unplayable mess in its final release, while Boom seems to play just fine so far, though I can't fully vouch for that because I am yet to play it myself. At worst, Boom looks "generic," as I've seen a few people point out, but not anywhere near as bad as what a lot of people have said. However, there's no denying the fact that the inital reaction from most of the previews has been overwhelmingly negative, which is obviously concerning for a lot of fans.

[Blue Blood]

For what difference it makes, mediocre and '06 bad might as well be the same thing. If people don't like the game, it's still going to fall right in line with the general opinion of the Sonic franchise. And it's still going to be a disappointment too. Either the game is good, or it's a bust. That's the way I see it.

[Your Vest Friend]

But I hear things like it's generic, not inspired. Stuff like that. Okay, cool, I guess I get that. But why isn't that leading more to "it's an okay game" instead of "crappy game?"

I would think generic games would just fall into the okay range.

I think that might partly stem from quite a few previews considering the game outright bad due to gameplay style and technical choices.

[SlickEvan]

Annnnnd... PERSONALLY- That's a bad way of thinking of things. If a game can't be "okay" then what? That'd be like if I went around saying Lost World is garbage and Adventure 2 is great because Lost World is "okay" to me. That's a really worrying way of thinking and isn't really logical. 

 

Is this just for Sonic? or what? It's kind of like "either this game is gonna be awesome! or I'm gonna hate it!" It's like- why can't it be okay? Sonic 4 episode 1 isn't outright bad by any means, it's okay and can still be an enjoyable title for some. 

 

 

Ehh... I don't even know anymore.

[Blue Blood]

Annnnnd... PERSONALLY- That's a bad way of thinking of things. If a game can't be "okay" then what? That'd be like if I went around saying Lost World is garbage and Adventure 2 is great because Lost World is "okay" to me. That's a really worrying way of thinking and isn't really logical. 

 

Is this just for Sonic? or what? It's kind of like "either this game is gonna be awesome! or I'm gonna hate it!" It's like- why can't it be okay? Sonic 4 episode 1 isn't outright bad by any means, it's okay and can still be an enjoyable title for some. 

 

 

Ehh... I don't even know anymore.

That's not what I said. For all that it matters, a mediocre game may as well be a bad one. It'll get a bad stigma attached to it and won't be received as a success. It's not that Boom can't be mediocre and average, but if it is it wouldn't be all that different to being bad. Take Lost World as an example. Already that game gets ragged on for not being very good. Was it bad? I'd argue that no it certainly wasn't. But that's not what counts. It wasn't good and that's the lasting impression it's left. Sonic games have a tough time when it comes to reception, and something as massively alien and different as Boom is going to have it worse than usual. Either it's a good game, or it's a bust. That doesn't mean it can't just be average.

[CottonCandy]

I can deal with it being an okay game. Its ridiculous that gamers only judge a game in two ways, being perfect or being terrible, no middle ground. Its pretty sad. Also, if the game turn out to be "good", people will continue to trash franchise anyway. So whats the point being paranoid about the game?

[KrazyBean]

So whats the point being paranoid about the game?

 

Who's paranoid about Sonic Boom?

[Willsy]

So, Iizuka did not look pleased when he played the game? If the head of Sonic Team -a developer that's not exactly un-privy to poor software- thinks this is bad, it must be. Of course, it might be that he was pulling a face for other reasons, or no reason at all, but it doesn't exactly full me with hope. I think they might have given Big Red Button a bit too much freedom with this, because if the current head of the franchise is displeased with it, it speaks volumes. I know that Sonic Team aren't exactly the pinnacle of quality, but at the end of the day, I'm sure that Iizuka cares about the franchise a lot. Reason being, most Japanese businessmen are passionate about their work and pretty much work themselves to the point of sickness, like Satoru Iwata with Nintendo. I don't doubt that Iizuka is the same.

Of course, as I said, we could be wrong and he might not have been consciously making faces in response to the game's quality. But I'm still not filled with hope.

[CottonCandy]

Who's paranoid about Sonic Boom?

I meant people who just worry about the failure of this game because of negative previews its getting. I should've worded that better..

[Tani Coyote]

Fair enough, and very true. The criticism of Sonic Team from some people has been really ridiculous, acting like they're trying to destroy Sonic or something but I can see where some come from as games as of late haven't felt too inspired and lacked in many departments but I definitely see what you're saying.

 

And that's more or less what I'm getting at. Not everything that's wrong with Boom is going to be Sonic Team's fault (as I mentioned, it's always possible that BRB's employees have made good titles because they had good direction when working under other companies), but with their track record, I don't want them near this at all. They should focus on their own titles.

Normally oversight is to make sure a new title lives up to the prior developer's vision, sort of like what Insomniac is doing on the Ratchet film. The difference is, Insomniac has many wonderful titles under its belt and has a vision that's worth preserving. Sonic Team, no disrespect to the individuals who work on it, doesn't really have a good track record, so I'm not sure I want their vision of Sonic preserved. I've given the benefit of the doubt that Sonic Team might just be terribly overworked, but I'm still not sure what they feel is right for Sonic is what will make for the best title.

 

Hang on when did Iizuka say he was shocked when he saw the demo? Does this mean he doesn't like Sonic Boom?

As I recall SEGA Japan in general never really cared for most of the Western cartoons, so Sonic Boom likewise not really being approved would just be part of the trend.

Then again, in fairness, it sounded like Mr. Frost may not be too fond of the old shows either.

However, the fact Sonic Boom is being released in Japan makes me think something must have happened with it to make SEGA Japan feel it was worth localizing.

[SlickEvan]

That's not what I said. For all that it matters, a mediocre game may as well be a bad one. It'll get a bad stigma attached to it and won't be received as a success. It's not that Boom can't be mediocre and average, but if it is it wouldn't be all that different to being bad. Take Lost World as an example. Already that game gets ragged on for not being very good. Was it bad? I'd argue that no it certainly wasn't. But that's not what counts. It wasn't good and that's the lasting impression it's left. Sonic games have a tough time when it comes to reception, and something as massively alien and different as Boom is going to have it worse than usual. Either it's a good game, or it's a bust. That doesn't mean it can't just be average.

 

I didn't say that's what you said, I just meant that that's a bad way of thinking. Nothing towards you personally just my two cents.

 

 

So, Iizuka did not look pleased when he played the game? If the head of Sonic Team -a developer that's not exactly un-privy to poor software- thinks this is bad, it must be. Of course, it might be that he was pulling a face for other reasons, or no reason at all, but it doesn't exactly full me with hope. I think they might have given Big Red Button a bit too much freedom with this, because if the current head of the franchise is displeased with it, it speaks volumes. I know that Sonic Team aren't exactly the pinnacle of quality, but at the end of the day, I'm sure that Iizuka cares about the franchise a lot. Reason being, most Japanese businessmen are passionate about their work and pretty much work themselves to the point of sickness, like Satoru Iwata with Nintendo. I don't doubt that Iizuka is the same.

Of course, as I said, we could be wrong and he might not have been consciously making faces in response to the game's quality. But I'm still not filled with hope.

 

And for you my friend. I think you should look more on the up of things. I've been viewing your posts closely noticing a pattern that when anything bad is mentioned you get even more down. Not calling you out or anything but just try to look on the brighter side- while previews are meant to influence our decision, it should never just be "welp they said so" and this more or less from a more than Boom but in anything in life itself type thing. (Just trying to cheer you up)

 

Now on the note of everything else in your posts- Everyone takes pride in their work, I could say BRB(before new team) as a team probably take even more pride in things than Sonic Team but that'd be wrong because we all want our things to succeed to the point of being sick to our stomachs when it doesn't come out like we want. I get sick to my stomach to some of my art that people actually like because I feel I could have done better and/or I didn't do as well as I could have. I wouldn't hold it up to a certain demographic. While it can be true that the demographic is known for certain things doesn't mean that someone from that demographic are inherently like that too (not to say Iizuka isn't into his work) but I don't think that should mean you take is facial expression any more serious than Stephen Frost's smile. 

 

I'm sure that BRB are taking much pride in this too as they are a team of devs who want to see their project succeed. 

 

Onto the creative freedom. If you think about this isn't much different from a "normal" Sonic game besides the speed of it. Taking in account of the speed stages it has most things Sonic games have. If anything they just emphasized different aspects of Sonic that aren't normally thrown into the spotlight. Truly it looks as if they actually stuck pretty in-between the lines of what Sonic could be and only surfaced out to things that they are more comfortable developing. *looks at some things in the trailer and such and such* Yeah I definitely don't see a big enough change to say they were given too much freedom besides maybe the character designs. It's your run of the mill Sonic game. Experimentation in gameplay (the combat) and platforming. Seems pretty there. Not trying to be the thorn in the side of you with this big wall of text, but I really, really don't see a stretch of creative power. Especially given the task of "Making a new different Sonic". Complaints so far range more on the look of things and how it plays more than anything. 

 

Normal Sonic Game would have you run through a level for the majority of it (recent ones) without many stops or long periods of staying slowed down. 

 

Boom want's you to explore but still has a clear path that you can through it's just slower. The biggest standout though is the combat- and as something people have hated in Sonic games for past years this is where some of the criticism stems from. And this isn't necessarily being creative either. They just put more focus into as Sonic Heroes - Sonic Unleashed had this same premise (less unleashed because speed stages didn't have any focus on combat)

 

Okay before I got out on a rant, I'll just shorten it by saying- I don't see creative freedom as a problem but rather what the decided to emphasize about normal Sonic, because for being a game that's supposed to be a new different take on Sonic they gave us the honor of not being complete dicks and making a game completely throwing away the normal Sonic concepts because it's all still there just emphasized in different areas, so no I don't see creative freedom having any thing to do with how it came out besides the fact they had the freedom to emphasize combat...

 

 

(That was still long, this is a topic that really gets me in the typing mood )