Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS - Settle It In Smash!

[Solly]

In that case they probably aren't the NFC figures.

 

The NFC figures I'd imagine would be completely new and built specifically for NFC rather than having been on the market already.

I also think they'd probably use a Mega Man design based around his Smash Bros model rather than his official art. 

 

And for what it's worth, all the Disney Infinity and Skylanders NFC figures I know of come with bases.

[Solkia]

Awakening having killed Solkia's parents aside, I think I'd kind of agree with him as far as not wanting Chrom on board, moreso for gameplay purposes. Much as I like the Fire Emblem cast's sword play in Smash, some more variety would be nice.

 

Okay, as much as I hate Chrom, I don't get this.

 

What gameplay purposes? Some of the character in Smash Bros had a moveset pulled out of thin air, like Captain Falcon, or Rob, or Peach.

 

Nothing specifically states he has to be a carbon copy. Unlike previous lord characters, Chrom can class change into everything from a Paladin to a Bow Knight. And even then nothing would stop Sakurai from bullshitting moves into his set. Hell, he already did with Ike.

[Sir Tynen]

Yoshi seems to be reused.

 

I own a similar looking Rush figure made by D-Arts. It came with a Mega Man figure that looks similar, but the one Sakurai's holding in the video might actually be the one made by Kotobukiya, juding by the proportions and colors. It's a bit hard to say, though, because the image is blurry and I can't see all the points of articulation. 

 

Welp, that's one theory down.

Ah well.

 

I do agree that figures would have to be newly made to fit the style of the character. There's also the possibility of the base of the figurines being like real-life Smash Trophies, since that'd be a good way to store the data, like how the Poke Rumble U NFC figurines have one.

 

[-Robin-]

Quick note: while Ike's link on his page in the English Smash Bros. site links to a site with Awakening content, his Japanese page links to Nintendo of Japan's page for Radiant Dawn. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/rfej/index.html

The same scenario happened with Marth: His English page links to Awakening, his Japanese page links to New Mystery of the Emblem. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/vi2j/index.html

Nintendo only has a general Fire Emblem page for the English section. It just happens to be featuring Awakening, which is why Marth's and Ike's English pages specifically name it. http://fireemblem.nintendo.com/index.html

So, an Awakening character is almost assuredly going to happen, if the Japanese links are any indication. #TeamRobin

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

 

 

What gameplay purposes? Some of the character in Smash Bros had a moveset pulled out of thin air, like Captain Falcon, or Rob, or Peach.

Nothing specifically states he has to be a carbon copy. Unlike previous lord characters, Chrom can class change into everything from a Paladin to a Bow Knight. And even then nothing would stop Sakurai from bullshitting moves into his set. Hell, he already did with Ike.

 

Of course, but someone working from a different template might have more potential. Using the one involves much more bending over backwards to get something truly unique than the other. It's a question of whether or not to allocate more time and effort here when we could, say, do it with half the cost there, y'know?

[JaidynReiman]

Okay, as much as I hate Chrom, I don't get this.

 

What gameplay purposes? Some of the character in Smash Bros had a moveset pulled out of thin air, like Captain Falcon, or Rob, or Peach.

 

Nothing specifically states he has to be a carbon copy. Unlike previous lord characters, Chrom can class change into everything from a Paladin to a Bow Knight. And even then nothing would stop Sakurai from bullshitting moves into his set. Hell, he already did with Ike.

Actually, the only move Ike had pulled out of thin air is "Eruption." Quick Draw is just one of Ike's critical attacks and Great Aether is *similar* to the final strike he pulls against the final boss of Radiant Dawn. We haven't even seen Eruption, either, its incredibly possible it might get replaced by something that fits Ike better; such as throwing a shockwave from Ragnell. I think Eruption was added to Ike's moveset to appeal to the people who liked Roy's fire attacks really.

[-Robin-]

Ike's special moves may not have been completely original, but his standard moveset certainly was. When did Ike ever punch and kick someone in the face, swing his sword overhead in a rainbow arc, or jump in the air and swing his sword like a helicopter blade?

This was done because with FE being an RPG moves are pretty limited for characters to one or two attacks, sure, but that's the point.

[Diogenes]

Okay, as much as I hate Chrom, I don't get this.

 

What gameplay purposes? Some of the character in Smash Bros had a moveset pulled out of thin air, like Captain Falcon, or Rob, or Peach.

 

Nothing specifically states he has to be a carbon copy. Unlike previous lord characters, Chrom can class change into everything from a Paladin to a Bow Knight. And even then nothing would stop Sakurai from bullshitting moves into his set. Hell, he already did with Ike.

Well, I haven't played his game, but he's still primarily a Sword Dude, right? And Smash 4 already has 5 Sword Dudes as of Ike. Even the possibility of bringing in other class abilities isn't that much of a draw, as the Links and Pit already do something similar.

Though, purely in a gameplay sense I'm sure they could make another swordfighter feel unique, just as they have for the current five. It's more of an aesthetic/conceptual thing for me.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Honestly, I would much rather have them bring back a retooled dual sword/sword dark magic Gannondorf, and then save the third FE spot for a character who can bring along a new moveset

[JaidynReiman]

Ike's special moves may not have been completely original, but his standard moveset certainly was. When did Ike ever punch and kick someone in the face, swing his sword overhead in a rainbow arc, or jump in the air and swing his sword like a helicopter blade?

This was done because with FE being an RPG moves are pretty limited for characters to one or two attacks, sure, but that's the point.

Of course they need to come up with additional moves. That said, there are still moves Ike had they could have incorporated instead of creating one out of the blue that makes no sense for his character. Him punching and doing a variety of jumping slashes are fine, they aren't particularly strange or unusual.

 

Throwing in the ability for Ike to stab his sword in the ground to create an eruption a short distance away, when he could just as easily create a shockwave from Ragnell that actually fits his moveset? Now that's a bit questionable.

 

Honestly, I would much rather have them bring back a retooled dual sword/sword dark magic Gannondorf, and then save the third FE spot for a character who can bring along a new moveset

I'm fine with Ganondorf getting a sword, however, I think he should only use it for a small portion of his moveset. Ganondorf's dark magic should be his main focus, with the sword playing backup. Heck, I'd like to incorporate dual swords into his moveset so it'd be slightly more unique (and a nod to a different version of Ganondorf).

[Solkia]

Y'know it occurs to me that Awakening introduced the dual strike mechanic.

 

They could make Chrom and Lucina the same character, just like Ice Climbers.

[dabbido]

Y'know it occurs to me that Awakening introduced the dual strike mechanic.

 

They could make Chrom and Lucina the same character, just like Ice Climbers.

 

Actually...that would be pretty cool! but I'm starting to doubt Sakurai will include Ice Climber type characters, with all his talk about how implementing those characters is proving a technical challenge for the 3DS version, which sounds a bit ridiculous IMO... but I'm not a developer, I'm probably missing something but I just think the 3DS shouldn't be that weak.

 

I'm starting to fear he might have trouble keeping the "same amount of characters in both versions" which might end up in limiting the roster. Hope I'm wrong tho.

[VO.SUPER]

We saw the polar bear; if that doesn't hint at the ice climbers being back, I'm not sure what else aside from a full reveal.

[JaidynReiman]

We saw the polar bear; if that doesn't hint at the ice climbers being back, I'm not sure what else aside from a full reveal.

Regardless, if Ice Climbers are hard to implement, a team up with two characters from Awakening would be even harder, especially since the Ice Climbers appear almost identical in appearance. Lucina and Chrom look significantly different, and unlike in the case of Olimar's Pikmin or Rosalina's Luma, they're not as different in size and much bigger. Ice Climbers, with they're size of model, are difficult to program into the 3DS, a "Pair Up" mechanic based on Awakening would be quite insane to configure by comparison.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

We already have Rosalina and Olimar. They've clearly overcome whatever problems they were having with the 3DS before.

[SuperLink]

I actually like that idea a lot, it'd certainly help the FE picks feel more diverse rather than having 3 sword-users of varying speeds/attacks. They could easily all have different movesets sure, but something to really make them stand out would be great.

[JaidynReiman]

We already have Rosalina and Olimar. They've clearly overcome whatever problems they were having with the 3DS before.

You're completely missing the point. They had problems getting that type of character to work. A "Pair Up" mechanic with Chrom and Lucina would be far worse to develop by comparison. You're not taking into consideration how each one would work on an individual standpoint.

 

Ice Climbers are two relatively short characters that mimic each other's moves exactly. The 3DS is having problems just getting that mechanic to work. Olimar is a horrible example; he's got three small little characters that just get thrown at enemies, and they then waddle back to him.

 

They don't do anything on their own, and even Olimar himself is very short and has less detail as well. Luma is also a small little star, very little detail in the model and just has a few simple attacks. Ice Climbers I think are worse than both of these, because both characters have a full set of animations, whereas Luma just has a few attacks and Pikmin don't have any.

 

Then we take into consideration that Chrom and Lucina are two full-sized DISTINCT characters (unlike Ice Climbers which are very short and almost identical). If Ice Climbers are a problem with two short chibi characters just mimicking each other, Chrom and Lucina, full-sized detailed characters would be a lot, lot more difficult.

 

 

I'm not saying its not possible, but the comparisons are flawed from the get go. Ice Climbers would be worse than Rosalina and Olimar as is, and we haven't even seen Ice Climbers in yet.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

There's also the fact that there is already ice Climber content already in the game. They are shoo-ins at this point unless Sakurai is literally trying to piss off as many fans as possible

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

There's also the fact that there is already ice Climber content already in the game. They are shoo-ins at this point unless Sakurai is literally trying to piss off as many fans as possible

Or they keep crashing the 3DS version, and Sakurai cant seem to find a fix, and the whole dumb-ish unified roster thing means neither get it. Honestly I wish that the Wii-u could have a bigger roster, because then there could be a bunch of characters the 3DS simply isn't capable of supporting 

[SuperLink]

I still like to believe that Sakurai wouldn't mention the Ice Climbers were trouble specifically if they weren't going to be in. If they weren't, he probably would have just deconfirmed them right there and then to save the fans hoping. But.. like I said, that's just what "I like to believe".

[Blitz 'n Burst]

Why the Ice Climbers haven't been shown off yet

 

[SilentDoom]

You're completely missing the point. They had problems getting that type of character to work. A "Pair Up" mechanic with Chrom and Lucina would be far worse to develop by comparison. You're not taking into consideration how each one would work on an individual standpoint.

 

Ice Climbers are two relatively short characters that mimic each other's moves exactly. The 3DS is having problems just getting that mechanic to work. Olimar is a horrible example; he's got three small little characters that just get thrown at enemies, and they then waddle back to him.

 

They don't do anything on their own, and even Olimar himself is very short and has less detail as well. Luma is also a small little star, very little detail in the model and just has a few simple attacks. Ice Climbers I think are worse than both of these, because both characters have a full set of animations, whereas Luma just has a few attacks and Pikmin don't have any.

 

Then we take into consideration that Chrom and Lucina are two full-sized DISTINCT characters (unlike Ice Climbers which are very short and almost identical). If Ice Climbers are a problem with two short chibi characters just mimicking each other, Chrom and Lucina, full-sized detailed characters would be a lot, lot more difficult.

 

 

I'm not saying its not possible, but the comparisons are flawed from the get go. Ice Climbers would be worse than Rosalina and Olimar as is, and we haven't even seen Ice Climbers in yet.

 

The size and visual complexity of a character have little effect on how easy or hard they are to animate.  It comes down more to the cleanliness and complexity of the rig if anything.  I speak from personal experience when I say that Marth is no harder to animate than Popo for instance.  Assuming Chrom and Lucina (if they were a pair ala Ice Climbers) had the same animations (which they could if they were build off of a the same rig) in theory they wouldn't be much more difficult than Ice Climbers.  As I said, I can say this as a fact because I've probably the most experience in animating characters in Smash out of anyone in the world barring the actual developers.

 

Now if the two were to act more independently (i.e. have different movesets) that's a different story. 

[JaidynReiman]

The size and visual complexity of a character have little effect on how easy or hard they are to animate.  It comes down more to the cleanliness and complexity of the rig if anything.  I speak from personal experience when I say that Marth is no harder to animate than Popo for instance.  Assuming Chrom and Lucina (if they were a pair ala Ice Climbers) had the same animations (which they could if they were build off of a the same rig) in theory they wouldn't be much more difficult than Ice Climbers.  As I said, I can say this as a fact because I've probably the most experience in animating characters in Smash out of anyone in the world barring the actual developers.

 

Now if the two were to act more independently (i.e. have different movesets) that's a different story. 

That's basically the main problem here, though. Chrom and Lucina aren't exactly the same. They fight fairly similar, but they are of different sizes and weight. They'd vary between one another, and if they are literally EXACTLY the same, it wouldn't feel right.

 

And it wasn't necessarily on how hard they are to animate, but that the Ice Climbers would take up less memory due to smaller sizes and less detailed models compared to the Fire Emblem characters which are always much bigger.

 

There's also the fact that there is already ice Climber content already in the game. They are shoo-ins at this point unless Sakurai is literally trying to piss off as many fans as possible

I never said Ice Climbers weren't going to be in. I just can't imagine how Chrom and Lucina paired would would work out if Ice Climbers, relatively simple characters, were hard to get working on the 3DS.

 

 

And all that said, I think a lot of people would prefer Chrom to be his own character anyway. Compared to, for example, just adding in a mage character with a fully original moveset that focuses on another aspect of the Fire Emblem series, rather than just pairing up two characters that alone aren't much different than other FE playable characters anyway...

 

EDIT: Just an additional note. The idea for the Pair Up mechanic between Chrom and Lucina basically sounds like taking a middleground character between Marth and Ike and giving them an Ice Climbers mechanic. I'd rather have Chrom solo than that, perhaps giving him the ability to use a lance as well as a sword (as a nod to his promotion). Or hell, Tharja, even though I hate that suggestion due to her lack of prominence in the game, at least she'd be fully original.

[SilentDoom]

And it wasn't necessarily on how hard they are to animate, but that the Ice Climbers would take up less memory due to smaller sizes and less detailed models compared to the Fire Emblem characters which are always much bigger.

 

This again is also false.  Character size doesn't affect how much memory they take up.  Detail does definitely, but your statement ignores the fact that the Ice Climber models are actually pretty damn detailed, most notably in the fact that they have a fair amount of fur.  Infact, Marth, Ike and Popo all have roughly similar costume files sizes.  

[Blitz 'n Burst]

Casuals HATE him!