Official Sonic 2006 topic

[Diamond Sonic]

Lol, he does the exact same thing for like every game he plays.

Like his Colors Speedruns? 

It's funny that you would mention Sonic Boom too because it's even more broken than 06, and it came a whole console generation after. xD

 

No he doesn't.

 

 

Oh wow, I stand corrected.

[DBZHedgy]

Okay now these rebuttals are getting nonsensical. Claiming that SA2 Amy is acting the same as 06 when she never said she'd stand by Sonic even if he were a villain in a Adventure 2, to denying the debris hit detection, to claiming that Else didn't mean it when she said she'd rather have the world end than never meet with Sonic, even though the bond that you yourself claim to be strong and held up their interaction asking other things backs up such a notion not to mention trying to paint others as the bad guy; none of them have actually made sense, being either suggestions or conjecture.

You honestly aren't doing too good with your rebuttals either since you continually ignore several things that are central to the argument at hand.

 

I'll repeat this only once: No. Amy not believing Sonic would be capable of such evil does not change the fact that in 06 she admitted that she still would stand him even if he were the bad guy. Pain and simple betrayal to her character right there.

Are you foreign to the concept of exaggeration? It seems like it because you took Elise's obviously hysterical comment to heart as well.

 

It's getting getting awfully repetitive, coming back with pretty much much the same argument our trying to drag them on post the point they've been legit answered.

It's sort of weird though because you aren't given any sort of actual attempt to proceed with the argument.

You really have been repeating the same thing instead of adding in other arguments that add onto your overall counter statements. 

[pppp]

Your being a bit snide there man.

I personally don't really care how you see me, so you might as well just stop with the insults

 

Stop giving me reasons and I'll gladly stop insulting you...If by insulting you you mean try to make you see that you're doing things wrong. I never insulted you.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Are you foreign to the concept of exaggeration? It seems like it because you took Elise's obviously hysterical comment to heart as well.

You're the only one here suggesting that it even was exaggeration to begin with. There's been nothing to suggest that Elise didn't mean what she said. Heck, you yourself suggested that the impact of their bond was so great that she apparently resurrected him to be with him again (even out seems more like she was doing out to save the universe more so).

Same goes for Amy. Why can't you grasp the reality that Amy out of character, admitted blindly following Sonic even if he were evil which is something she had never stated before? It's the truth and man oh man did Nakamura really screw the pooch on 06's story and characters.

[DBZHedgy]

Stop giving me reasons and I'll gladly stop insulting you...If by insulting you you mean try to make you see that you're doing things wrong. I never insulted you.

But that's not what you're doing in the slightest. xD

 

You're the only one here suggesting that it even was exaggeration to begin with. There's been nothing to suggest that Elise didn't mean what she said. Heck, you yourself suggested that the impact of their bond was so great that she apparently resurrected him to be with him again (even out seems more like she was doing out to save the universe more so).

Are you serious? 

If she didn't mean it, why exactly did she blow out the candle?

If she didn't mean it, why would she say that she loved the people of her country? Especially when she would go to great lengths to bottle up her emotions.

If she didn't mean it, why how could she be aware of the fact that Sonic would leave after he has stopped Eggman?

[Diamond Sonic]

It actually shocks me that people genuinely like Sonic 06.

 

I get people who like it because it's so naff. I have a soft spot for it because of it's laughably bad story, can't be arsed animations, hilarious glitches, bored level design and puzzling design choices.

 

But, to be blunt, Sonic 06 is a horrible game in virtually every way other than the music, which I think is a tad over-appreciated anyway. That people unironically say it's a good game with a straight face leaves me speechless.

[DBZHedgy]

Same goes for Amy. Why can't you grasp the reality that Amy out of character, admitted blindly following Sonic even if he were evil which is something she had never stated before? It's the truth and man oh man did Nakamura really screw the pooch on 06's story and characters.

And why exactly is it so hard for you to even consider Amy exaggerating that last statement?

What sense would it make for Amy to defend Sonic about being a good guy, when Silver is dead set on seeing him as a bad guy. 

In fact it would make even more sense from a story's standpoint since the point of her saying it in the first place is to show that Sonic was such a good guy that Amy, the nicest person Silver has ever met is dedicated to this guy.

 

 

It actually shocks me that people genuinely like Sonic 06.

 

I get people who like it because it's so naff. I have a soft spot for it because of it's laughably bad story, can't be arsed animations, hilarious glitches, bored level design and puzzling design choices.

 

But, to be blunt, Sonic 06 is a horrible game in virtually every way other than the music, which I think is a tad over-appreciated anyway. That people unironically say it's a good game with a straight face leaves me speechless.

It's honestly interesting to see how people see Sonic Colors as the Holy Bible that everyone makes it out to be, but I don't go jumping down people's throats about their tastes, or why they think something is one way or the other. :/

[Diamond Sonic]

It's honestly interesting to see how people see Sonic Colors as the Holy Bible that everyone makes it out to be, but I don't go jumping down people's throats about their tastes, or why they think something is one way or the other. :/

 

Colours probably gets too much praise from fans, but it's still a solid title that is at least fun.

 

Sonic 2006 is a torture-fest, only saved by how funny it is because it's so unspeakably awful.

[FriendBot]

....Uhhhh when did anyone said that Colors was "the Holy Bible"? I'm pretty sure almost everyone in this forum can agree that 3 & Knuckles was the best Sonic game. Colors was considered a good game and I can agree with that. Though some people, myself included, don't think it's a good Sonic game.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

The obvious short answer to your questions there, Hedgy is of course: terrible writing that plagues 06.

 

If she didn't mean it, why exactly did she blow out the candle?

If she didn't mean it, why would she say that she loved the people of her country? Especially when she would go to great lengths to bottle up her emotions.

If she didn't mean it, why how could she be aware of the fact that Sonic would leave after he has stopped Eggman?

Umm, don't know if you meant to do that, you're kind of supporting my case that she did mean what she said by confronting the "If she didn't mean it" path. Thanks, I guess?

 

And why exactly is it so hard for you to even consider Amy exaggerating that last statement?

You mean aside from the fact no hints at possible exaggeration were given and there's nothing that gives the player an inkling of such a notion to begin with? Well. you haven't exactly provided any legitimate reason for me to believe that Amy wasn't serious in her out of character moment.

 

 

It's honestly interesting to see how people see Sonic Colors as the Holy Bible that everyone makes it out to be, but I don't go jumping down people's throats about their tastes, or why they think something is one way or the other. :/

Whether or not it's overpraised, it makes more sense for an actual good solid game to get genuine praise. 06 on the other hand is garbage-tier. It's okay to like it or love it sure, but often those aren't for genuinely fun reasons, not to mention that it's another thing to actually try and insist that the bad things of 06 aren't bad at all. Meanwhile Colors has actually yielded more to warrant positive reception than 06 to boot.

[DBZHedgy]

Colours probably gets too much praise from fans, but it's still a solid title that is at least fun.

 

Sonic 2006 is a torture-fest, only saved by how funny it is because it's so unspeakably awful.

Ironically that's the exact opposite of how I feel.

Colors is just unbearably boring, and like a complete waste of time, and to me it had like no sort of fun value at all. Mainly because the 3D was just corridor after corridor, and the 2D was platforming with such wonky jumping and monotonous waiting games.

 

Sonic 06 has it's problems, to be sure, but the characters are much more diverse, in plot and gameplay, and there was a lot more stuff to do in general.

 

 

....Uhhhh when did anyone said that Colors was "the Holy Bible"? I'm pretty sure almost everyone in this forum can agree that 3 & Knuckles was the best Sonic game. Colors was considered a good game and I can agree with that. Though some people, myself included, don't think it's a good Sonic game.

I don't mean anyone in particular, but in general people see Sonic Colors as the game that brought Sonic 'back', but Unleashed, even the Wii version seemed more fulfilling, and deserving of the praise.

 

 

The obvious short answer to your questions there, Hedgy is of course: terrible writing that plagues 06.

Umm, don't know if you meant to do that, you're kind of supporting my case that she did mean what she said by confronting the "If she didn't mean it" path. Thanks, I guess?

I was 100% sure you would say something like that.

In which case I must retort with the fact that you're clearly skewing your perception here. 

Because the fact that she still blew out the candle, and possessed all of these feelings before and after that statement is what should be noted here. The fact that it contradicts the "I don't care what happens to the world" is what you keep continually ignoring. As well as everything else in that list.

It isn't bad writing if anyone could even come up with that conclusion from an implication.

 

You mean aside from the fact no hints at possible exaggeration were given and there's nothing that gives the player an inkling of such a notion to begin with? Well. you haven;t exactly provided any reason for me to believe that Amy wasn't serious in her out of character moment.

Wow, you really are ignoring what I'm saying aren't you? 

 

What sense would it make for Amy to defend Sonic about being a good guy, when Silver is dead set on seeing him as a bad guy. 

In fact it would make even more sense from a story's standpoint since the point of her saying it in the first place is to show that Sonic was such a good guy that Amy, the nicest person Silver has ever met is dedicated to this guy.

If this is the case, why even attempt to persuade me in the first place? Why should I respect your argument if you aren't even considering the opposite position?

 

Whether or not it's overpraised, it makes more sense for an actual good solid game to get genuine praise. 06 on the other hand is garbage-tier. It's okay to like it or love it sure, but often those aren't for genuinely fun reasons, not to mention that it's another thing to actually try and insist that the bad things of 06 aren't bad at all.

Like I said, I'm not too keen on like anything it does, much less the idea that any of it garners praise, but that isn't my place to say. Because it's opinionated, especially what works in the Level Design and aesthetics department. But then, so is everything in 06, and as I've said many times, it isn't perfect, but it does do many things right that are pretty much ignored. I don't really know what the significance of that is though considering that many people are biased against some things and are completely unsusceptible to argumentation but like I said, it's their opinion not mine.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I was 100% sure you would say something like that.

In which case I must retort with the fact that you're clearly skewing your perception here. 

Because the fact that she still blew out the candle, and possessed all of these feelings before and after that statement is what should be noted here. The fact that it contradicts the "I don't care what happens to the world" is what you keep continually ignoring. As well as everything else in that list.

It isn't bad writing if anyone could even come up with that conclusion from an implication.

 

Okay, I'm confused here. You knew I would point out that you worded it wrong? Well okay, since this is pretty on the same level as picking apart the usual witness testimony in an Ace Attorney game, allow me to show you the components of said terrible writing.

 

 

If she did mean it, why exactly did she blow out the candle?

As the scene suggests, he values Sonic over everything else. This also ties in to Elise's failure of a character arc. She's meant to mature into a strong queen yet even at the end when the right thing to do was obvious from the get go, she still leaned more towards her own selfish desires. The only reason she blew it out was that Sonic, the one she adored most, convinced her to actually blow it out. Nothing else there would've convinced her to actually see sense.

 

If she did mean it, why would she say that she loved the people of her country? Especially when she would go to great lengths to bottle up her emotions.

 

Simple she loved Sonic over everything else she may have loved. Ya can't really excuse how awful that line about dooming the world for the sake of meeting Sonic.

 

 

If she did mean it, why how could she be aware of the fact that Sonic would leave after he has stopped Eggman?

Think hard enough on that one and sooner or later, you'd come to realize that her being aware of Sonic having to leave eventually in no way changes her feelings for him.

 

 

 

If this is the case, why even attempt to persuade me in the first place? Why should I respect your argument if you aren't even considering the opposite position?

Okay first off, this isn't about persuading you, considering how stubborn and futile that process would be, so much as it's about actually making sure the facts are present.

 

Secondly your take at the "opposite position"...

 

is that it wouldn't make sense Amy isn't even trying to defend Sonic a a hero. So instead she tries to show he's a good person by revealing her dedication to him. Besides that idea requiring quite  a leap of logic, you still have Amy stating that she'd still side with Sonic no matter he's responsible of.....to the point where sanity is called into question as well.

 

If the next rebuttal makes sense, I'll give it a response. If not or it ends up being needless conjecture again, I'm moving on to the next discussion on something else.

[DBZHedgy]

As the scene suggests, he values Sonic over everything else. This also ties in to Elise's failure of a character arc. She's meant to mature into a strong queen yet even at the end when the right thing to do was obvious from the get go, she still leaned more towards her own selfish desires. The only reason she blew it out was that Sonic, the one she adored most, convinced her to actually blow it out. Nothing else there would've convinced her to actually see sense.

 

Simple she loved Sonic over everything else she may have loved. Ya can't really excuse how awful that line about dooming the world for the sake of meeting Sonic.

It doesn't destroy her Character arc though, she forfeited herself to Dr. Eggman to save Soleanna from being reduced to rubble. 

She bottled up her sadness for 10 years to keep her people safe. 

She was ready to kill herself to keep Dr. Eggman from unlocking the Secret of the Flames of Disaster.

If all of these instances are stacked against this one weakness in character, it's actually quite obvious that she didn't mean it.

Also, I sort of find it hard to believe that asking her to "just smile" would be enough to substitute for an actual convincing argument that would change her mind. Which means that she knew that she would half to do it, whether she did or didn't care for the world (which it's obvious that she did).

 

Before you give your rebuttal though, why is it so hard to believe that this was just an instance of fear? Everything else reflects this mindset since this is the only instance of her even remotely being selfish so why ignore it?

 

Think hard enough on that one and sooner or later, you'd come to realize that her being aware of Sonic having to leave eventually in no way changes her feelings for him.

That's the point I'm trying to make though. If her awareness of his departure wouldn't change her feelings for Sonic, then why would it change her feelings for her country?

 

Okay first off, this isn't about persuading you so much as it's about actually making sure the facts are present.

 

Secondly your take at the "opposite position"...

is that it wouldn't make sense Amy isn't even trying to defend Sonic a a hero. So instead she tries to show he's a good person by revealing her dedication to him. Besides that idea requiring quite  a leap of logic, you still have Amy stating that she'd still side with Sonic no matter he's responsible of.....to the point where sanity is called into question as well.

That doesn't even make sense. The dedication she holds from Sonic comes from the fact that Sonic is such a good-hearted person. In fact now that I think about it, the statement doesn't even directly declare that Sonic is a bad guy, it's implying that if the world was against Sonic, then the world is wrong because Sonic's prior actions have proved that he has always been on the side of justice, and thus he deserves her dedication.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Going into another massive problem concerning the game and its piss poor programming is the fact the unfinished state of this game really shows when you have text telling you that you've unlocked something that you can't even really recieve at all, such as the gem that makes you go Super Sonic, left out stories, etc.

One way I'd try to go about making Mephiles extremely less idiotic of a villain, aside from replacing him completely would be to have him work for Eggman, in the sense that the Doctor would've brainwashed him and wiped his memory of his original chaotic goals, thus helping legitimize why the heck Mephiles constantly does stuff that really only hinders his plans. The said mindwipe would be removed after Shadow's actions at the end of his story, trying to seal Mephiles again, of course.

In addition, I might also for the sake of comedy thrown in a bout of Metal Sonic and Mephiles in their own forms of dialect, mistaking each other for Sonic and Shadow respectively.

[DBZHedgy]

 

Going into another massive problem concerning the game and its piss poor programming is the fact the unfinished state of this game really shows when you have text telling you that you've unlocked something that you can't even really recieve at all, such as the gem that makes you go Super Sonic, left out stories, etc.

I hope you're aware that this is still incorrect.

 

Everything else in that post is agreeable though, sparce the idea that Mephiles is dumb of course.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

 

I hope you're aware that this is still incorrect.

 

By all means, Hedgy, reveal why you think so. There actually have been accounts of text data revealing things such as Super Sonic, Tails' own story, etc.

[DBZHedgy]

The

text telling you that you've unlocked something that you can't even really receive at all, such as the gem that makes you go Super Sonic, left out stories, etc.

 

is unused data and can't be accessed in Vanilla Sonic 06. You can poke and prod in the files, but you can't access them without modifying the game in some shape or form.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

is unused data and can't be accessed in Vanilla Sonic 06. You can poke and prod in the files, but you can't access them without modifying the game in some shape or form.

And yet this doesn't change the existence of the plethora of unused data. Again, let's hear a legitimate reason why you claim the unused data doesn't help show how unfinished of a game Sonic 06 is.

[DBZHedgy]

What? That's like saying Smash Brothers has poor programming because it left data for unused characters.

You should be providing evidence for this one because it's really unfounded.

[Sami]

This topic has gotten really fucking aggressive again and this game is still trash, but I noticed people talking about Amy so I guess I'll chime in because her characterization in the game was pretty much the best part. I liked this exchange on tumblr about it (between a bunch of SSMB members lmao) -

 

 

I love this scene so much. People use this scene as proof as why Amy is “annoying” or something because she says she would choose Sonic over the world, but it just proves how real her feelings for Sonic are. It’s far more that just some ridiculous obsession. Amy was willing to put her life on the line for Sonic. And what makes it even better is that Sonic trusts Amy enough to leave and let her handle the guy that Sonic couldn’t even beat. I just…love it so much.

Also, Sonic living = Saving the world

 

 

 

Yessss there’s a lot of rubbish in Sonic 2006 but this is one of the few really good scenes and one of my fave Amy scenes.  In addition to the above I feel it’s even more about her faith in Sonic than how much she loves him.  She doesn’t even turn to look at Sonic in this cut-scene and they just spent the last few hours tracking him down while Amy fawned over him to Silver.  She never takes her attention away from Silver, the threat at hand, that’s how serious she is right here.

 

 

 

Except that she blatantly says that if Sonic was evil she’d support him.

That’s not love. That’s obsession. Love would be trying to bring him back.

 

 

 

Oh I always saw that the “even if it was true, if I had to choose between the world and sonic, I would choose sonic” line as her trusting him so much that if Sonic did destroy the world with his actions, she’d still trust that he was doing whatever he did for the right reasons

But… analyising 2006’s script echh

 

Yeah I saw it the same way Jez did. She has enough faith and trust in his judgement that she knows he wouldn’t be doing anything that wasn’t right. 

Honestly the more I think about it the more I like Amy’s characterization in 06. Which is… odd, considering everyone else got butchered. She wasn’t really given much time to shine but what we got was pretty good.

 

I mean it's a really shitty game but it didn't do everything wrong (unlike Heroes which did literally everything wrong). 

 

 

Going into another massive problem concerning the game and its piss poor programming is the fact the unfinished state of this game really shows when you have text telling you that you've unlocked something that you can't even really recieve at all, such as the gem that makes you go Super Sonic, left out stories, etc.

 

idk why we're quoting something from like 20 pages ago but whatever I'll bite

 

the game's absolutely, factually unfinished, but this isn't really true. Unused data isn't a sign of poor programming, it's just a sign of cut features. Every game has this to some extent.

[T-Min]

Colours probably gets too much praise from fans, but it's still a solid title that is at least fun.

 

Sonic 2006 is a torture-fest, only saved by how funny it is because it's so unspeakably awful.

"You shouldn't like this one because I say you shouldn't like it."

 

Debate's fine and all, but the subtle (and not so subtle) "wow you actually LIKE this game???? lol" is pretty lame. I mean, my gosh, it's a video game, a piece of entertainment meant to be enjoyed. That was its purpose. One man's trash, etc.

 

Stop giving me reasons and I'll gladly stop insulting you...If by insulting you you mean try to make you see that you're doing things wrong. I never insulted you.

 

 

Honestly why do you insist on grasping at straws to try to defend 06? You're like a creationist trying to "prove" that evolution doesn't happen.

That's kind of an insult, bro. :V

[Penny]

 

I love Sonic 06. I really do. In fact, it's my third fourth favorite 3D Sonic game behind only Generations and Unleashed and SA2. Most of Sonic's stages are a blast to go through, the CG Cutscenes are amazing, the music is... good enough, I suppose, and me and my friends always have fun playing through the multiplayer (tag mode only though).

All that said, however, it's still a bad game. You know, objectively. The game fails on so many levels, it's not even funny. I mean, even though I kind of like the story (I'm a sucker for time travel and interconnecting plots) and Mephiles, it is full of plotholes. The gameplay is chocked full of annoying glitches and unfinished, underutilized mechanics. I would cite examples, but all of this has been documented by people who are much more qualified and intelligent than I.

It's a poorly made, obviously unfinished game, and there's no use trying to prove otherwise. There is no excuse for this game to be as bad as it is. None.

Now remember, I love this game. I am able to stomach all the glaring faults and have loads of fun with it. To me, it's a fun game. However, just because something is fun doesn't make it good. When I look at Sonic Generations (an actually good, well made game), I can't see how anyone could not like it.. Most people see Sonic 06 the opposite way; they look at it and wonder how anyone could like such a poorly made game.

And you know what? There's no reason why they should wonder any differently.

 

Still my thoughts.

 

But, like, why defend the game? I like it, but there's no way in hell I'd defend the game (except for maybe a couple things, but those things tend to be things most people don't mind anyway). I know it might get annoying when it gets constantly shit on, but... it's bad... and unfinished. Why waste your time?

[DBZHedgy]

But, like, why defend the game? I like it, but there's no way in hell I'd defend the game (except for maybe a couple things, but those things tend to be things most people don't mind anyway). I know it might get annoying when it gets constantly shit on, but... it's bad... and unfinished. Why waste your time?

Cuz I really don't think it deserves most of the bashing it gets.

Not that offering a different perspective would change anyone's mind, but I'd also like to get a better idea of how it's bad from someone else's viewpoint. I'm also curious to see how that viewpoint stands against my own through discussion, and while it's rare that anyone would humor me in that endeavor, it's worth it nonetheless. For me at least... probably irritating as crap for others unfortunately...

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

What? That's like saying Smash Brothers has poor programming because it left data for unused characters.

 

Now that's a pretty silly comparison. Not that poor programming was ever directly related to the unused data argument; I just happened to include poor programming as one of 06's problems.

 

Anyway, unlike Smash Bros, Sonic 06's unfinished state is revealed not only by the unused data, but the fact that much of the unused text and data also correlates to stuff that's mentioned in the manual, but doesn't actually appear in the game. What makes 06 stand out in this regard is that the instruction manual for Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) contains a number of inaccuracies that do not accurately reflect the final game. For instance...

 

The manual states that by collecting "Chaos Drives" and light cores, Sonic can level up his equipped abilities. There are no level up mechanics in the game, and Chaos Drives do not make an appearance.

 

The manual also testifies that Tails and Omega's flight is limited by a gauge of sorts, yet no gauge is present. Heck Omega doesn't even fly, he hovers.

 

And of course, the manual also makes note of a green shield power-up. No shield power is ever acquired from item pickups, nor is any green shield power-up ever accessible.

 

Oh and let's not forget this tidbit: http://www.giantbomb.com/sonic-the-hedgehog/3030-20584/

 

Even prior to attaining it, the text for the Xbox 360 achievement "Nights of Kronos" suggests there is an alternate ending sequence to the game. (The achievement writes: "Unlock the complete ending to the last hidden story.") Meeting the requirements to get the achievement (S-Rank the entire Last Episode) does not actually change anything about the ending.

 

Suffice to say, like, love or hate 06, it's made quite obvious that Sonic 2006 was indeed left quite unfinished.

[DBZHedgy]

Oh, well in that case you're completely correct, and you'll get no rebuttal from me.