Official Sonic 2006 topic

March 22, 2015

No they don't. None of those even begin to deny her capacity for selfishness. Bring up the things that she does for what she loves all you want, it doesn't erase her nearly pulling the mistake of her entire life and that of the universe, by almost dooming the world for she loved the most, more than anything else: Sonic

And none of your examples even begin to deny the idea that she doesn't have any sort of caring thoughts for anyone other than herself and Sonic.

Actions speak louder than words. Show me a matured Elise that wouldn't have almost let the world die for the sake of meeting a hedgehog she knew even less than her own father who she apparently never wept and then you've got yourself a legit case.

@1:49, 4:13, & 6:28

Then on top of this you're still ignoring the fact that "Just Smile" isn't this amazing super convincing argument that you make it out to be.

Black Doom not having the emeralds at the end of the first scene would leave open the possibility that Shadow had the emeralds during the gameplay section that you're trying to pass off as legitimate evidence.

You obviously weren't paying attention then because in the next scene that I showed Shadow is walking towards a Black Doom with Chaos Emeralds in hand.

March 22, 2015

You obviously weren't paying attention then because in the next scene that I showed Shadow is walking towards a Black Doom with Chaos Emeralds in hand.

Actually I was, hence why if you're going to be sticking to your tier of logic of directly combining gameplay with story, you'd best be ready to back it up properly. Black Doom is never seen leaving with the emeralds shown in his possession. Combine that with the fact that Shadow and company act like he does have an emerald, telling him to use chaos control and whatnot. Furthermore using your game/story logic we could come to the conclusion that the emeralds weren't even in Black Doom's possession during the second scene or that he just stole them back, especially considering how he just leaves them behind, as if he never really did posses them during that scene. And you still don't have any solid proof on screen to actually counter such a ridiculous notion made legit using your tier of game/story logic. That puts an end to that hypothetical bout of conjecture.

And none of your examples even begin to deny the idea that she doesn't have any sort of caring thoughts for anyone other than herself and Sonic.

Good thing I never claimed she didn't care for anyone else than. The fact was and still is that initially she would have doomed the world for the sake of meeting Sonic. That certainly a selfish despite whatever selfless deeds she may have done, which is quite a shame, since it rather ruined any potential buildup to her being a strong queen made by those actions you like to bring up.

@1:49, 4:13, & 6:28

This is like the umpteenth time you've tried shoving those scenes into this debate, even though they have nothing to do with comparing what she'd do for those things she loves in comparison to the measures she was prepared to take when it came to Sonic, the one she loves most. Show me a scene where she makes a rational choice proving that she in actuality wouldn't choose Sonic over the world, without having to be emotionally manipulated with Sonic's reassurance of "Just smile", and then you've got yourself an actual case on this.

March 22, 2015

Actually I was, hence why if you're going to be sticking to your tier of logic of directly combining gameplay with story, you'd best be ready to back it up properly. Black Doom is never seen leaving with the emeralds shown in his possession. Combine that with the fact that Shadow and company act like he does have an emerald, telling him to use chaos control and whatnot. Furthermore using your game/story logic we could come to the conclusion that the emeralds weren't even in Black Doom's possession during the second scene or that he just stole them back, especially considering how he just leaves them behind, as if he never really did posses them during that scene. And you still don't have any solid proof on screen to actually counter such a ridiculous notion made legit using your tier of game/story logic. That puts an end to that hypothetical bout of conjecture.

So your telling me that after using Chaos Control with the Chaos Emeralds directly in his hands he just leaves them there on the floor?

And then are you trying to say that he just magically warps them back when he feels like it?

I've been accused of Straw-Grasping many times during this discussion, so I should know that this is just that.

Honestly, what sense would that make for Shadow to bring Black Doom the emeralds if Black Doom already used them for his purpose + the fact that Shadow is directly opposing him this time is also an important thing to note.

Good thing I never claimed she didn't care for anyone else than. The fact was and still is that initially she would have doomed the world for the sake of meeting Sonic. That certainly a selfish despite whatever selfless deeds she may have done, which is quite a shame, since it rather ruined any potential buildup to her being a strong queen made by those actions you like to bring up.

This is like the umpteenth time you've tried shoving those scenes into this debate, even though they have nothing to do with comparing what she'd do for those things she loves in comparison to the measures she was prepared to take when it came to Sonic, the one she loves most. Show me a scene where she makes a rational choice proving that she in actuality wouldn't choose Sonic over the world, without having to be emotionally manipulated with Sonic's reassurance of "Just smile", and then you've got yourself an actual case on this.

Once again, "just smile" isn't a convincing statement, and you persisting to push it off as one isn't a good argument. The fact that it isn't implies that she had to do some thinking for herself meaning that she ultimately came to that conclusion for herself.

I'm curious to see if your going to dodge this statement and refuse to acknowledge it yet another time.

March 22, 2015

So your telling me that after using Chaos Control with the Chaos Emeralds directly in his hands he just leaves them there on the floor?

No, but that's what the counter argument would be if your method using gameplay to try and call a contradiction on the lore actually held water. Especially since Black Doom actually does leave the emeralds behind for Shadow to use to turn into Super Shadow for the final boss fight. In the end, it all makes almost as little sense as the story of 06 that you try to defend.

I've been accused of Straw-Grasping many times during this discussion, so I should know that this is just that.

And now you realize why your tactics of trying to using non-compatible segregated gameplay segments to give off the illusion of that they always correlate to the story and lore doesn't work. It lacks solid evidence which leaves room open for such nonsensical conjecture. Which is why it is concluded as a fact that Shadow can't chaos control without a chaos emerald.

Once again, "just smile" isn't a convincing statement, and you persisting to push it off as one isn't a good argument.

This is also testament to Elise's psychosis. As no one here has ever claimed "just smile" to be as convincing a statement as you claim they have, you should know no matter how convincing anyone else found that statement, the fact remains that it was Sonic in particular who gave her the strength to actually make the right decision in the very end with just those two words. Elise cares that much for Sonic, that it was him who gave her her resolve in the end.

March 22, 2015

No, but that's what the counter argument would be if your method using gameplay to try and call a contradiction on the lore actually held water. Especially since Black Doom actually does leave the emeralds behind for Shadow to use to turn into Super Shadow for the final boss fight. In the end, it all makes almost as little sense as the story of 06 that you try to defend.

And now you realize why your tactics of trying to using non-compatible segregated gameplay segments to give off the illusion of that they always correlate to the story and lore doesn't work. It lacks solid evidence which leaves room open for such nonsensical conjecture. Which is why it is concluded as a fact that Shadow can't chaos control without a chaos emerald.

No, that's the exact opposite in fact since the evidence I posted completely contradict your idea of Black Doom just suddenly acting like an idiot only to immediately come back to his senses. Whereas you have literally no basis for your claim to counter the fact that Shadow can use Chaos Control without a Chaos Emerald within the context of ShTH. You literally have no other statement to go against this other than that meaningless and completely pointless idea. And the idea that gameplay-to-story segregation can't be a legitimate point of evidence.

This is also testament to Elise's psychosis. As no one here has ever claimed "just smile" to be as convincing a statement as you claim they have, you should know no matter how convincing anyone else found that statement, the fact remains that it was Sonic in particular who gave her the strength to actually make the right decision in the very end with just those two words. Elise cares that much for Sonic, that it was him who gave her her resolve in the end.

(In reply to red)

You pretty much just admitted what I've been saying this whole time.

That she was flustered and she knew that she didn't mean it.

You're heavily implying that "just smile" is a convincing argument since you see Sonic as the main reason she changed her mind from a decision that would seem to be dead serious, when it isn't.

March 22, 2015

No they don't. None of those even begin to deny her capacity for selfishness. Bring up the things that she does for what she loves all you want, it doesn't erase her nearly pulling the mistake of her entire life and that of the universe, by almost dooming the world for she loved the most, more than anything else: Sonic

Dude. Seriously.

Is it really that hard to buy that her stating that she "don't care what happens to the world" was just a spur of the moment slip on her part? I mean, dang, with everything that happened before then, including seeing her friend get killed right in front of her, I'm willing to think that the prospects of losing her friend again, permanently, proved to be a bit too much for her to handle at that one moment.

March 22, 2015

No, that's the exact opposite in fact since the evidence I posted completely contradict your idea of Black Doom just suddenly acting like an idiot only to immediately come back to his senses.

Actually, if anything they confirmed it when Black did in fact act as such an idiot, explicitly in the second scene where he did just that; vanishing and leaving the chaos emeralds behind for his enemy to use. He really did act as stupid as I suggested at some point: that's an actual fact. So yeah, Black Doom was that stupid, so even if you persist with your line of logic, that would factor in and thus leave room for doubt in your theory. Why you persist in using that tier when it's commonly agreed that Sonic games' gameplay are often separate of the story is a mystery.

I mean, to try and defend 06 by going so far as to try and use gameplay of another game that isn't directly tied into the story, even when the company themselves have officially confirmed it. That's grasping awfully hard especially when you come to realize that best, it'd be a legit contradiction made by the game developers, not part of the writing team, meant to preserve the gameplay, which goes full circle to show why legitimately it doesn't affect the lore or continuity.

That is why I shall end my hypothetical gameplay-affecting-lore debate with you concerning ShtH on chaos control, as no logical conclusion could be reached and at best, you found a contradiction that doesn't hold nearly enough weight to push your point against facts and the official makers themselves.

Dude. Seriously.

Is it really that hard to buy that her stating that she "don't care what happens to the world" was just a spur of the moment slip on her part? I mean, dang, with everything that happened before then, including seeing her friend get killed right in front of her, I'm willing to think that the prospects of losing her friend again, permanently, proved to be a bit too much for her to handle at that one moment.

I'm afraid so, Komodin. Were it executed well and it a story that actually had earned such a moment, I would accept it as just that. However, from the way it is written, the game would have us believe that there is a romance, one-sided or not. Not only that, but it's a poorly built up relationship. Sonic and Elise, between Sonic getting hindered and Elise getting kidnapped constantly, have not nearly had enough interaction to justify Elise caring more for a blue hedgehog than her own father, crying for his death but not the Duke's, and openly revealing that she'd go let the events that transpired, including her own father's death, still go on.

Oh and about that supposedly being a spur of the moment where she was flustered, well that goes to show that she wasn't thinking straight, during which she really did mean what she said. Of course in such a mental state, it didn't take that strong an argument to shock her back to reality with Sonic's "just smile" , but the way the writing was handled makes it apparent she meant every word, and I've yet to see any straightforward evidence contradicting such when it comes to Elise.

March 22, 2015

One thing I've always wondered about Sonic 06. Why does Elise have orange legs?

Are they tights? They just look like a different person's legs. It's much better in that CG picture but in game it's so weird, even at the time of the game's release it puzzled me.

March 22, 2015

One thing I've always wondered about Sonic 06. Why does Elise have orange legs?

Are they tights? They just look like a different person's legs. It's much better in that CG picture but in game it's so weird, even at the time of the game's release it puzzled me.

maybe she wore Pantyhose?

more orange or yellow than normal haha

March 23, 2015

Actually, if anything they confirmed it when Black did in fact act as such an idiot, explicitly in the second scene where he did just that; vanishing and leaving the chaos emeralds behind for his enemy to use. He really did act as stupid as I suggested at some point: that's an actual fact. So yeah, Black Doom was that stupid, so even if you persist with your line of logic, that would factor in and thus leave room for doubt in your theory. Why you persist in using that tier when it's commonly agreed that Sonic games' gameplay are often separate of the story is a mystery.

I mean, to try and defend 06 by going so far as to try and use gameplay of another game that isn't directly tied into the story, even when the company themselves have officially confirmed it. That's grasping awfully hard especially when you come to realize that best, it'd be a legit contradiction made by the game developers, not part of the writing team, meant to preserve the gameplay, which goes full circle to show why legitimately it doesn't affect the lore or continuity.

That is why I shall end my hypothetical gameplay-affecting-lore debate with you concerning ShtH on chaos control, as no logical conclusion could be reached and at best, you found a contradiction that doesn't hold nearly enough weight to push your point against facts and the official makers themselves.

You are seriously grasping at straws here, why would Black Doom leave the emeralds there if he still needs them to transform?

On top of that why would Shadow just give them right back when he's done with the stage?

Stop dodging these questions. The story supports what transpired in the gameplay, just like the matter of Shadow 'not using actual Chaos Control' in Sonic 06 and in Sa2. The fact that you only have an interview with Sega to prove your case is something to note as well since Blaze is a part of Sonic 06, canon or not. How about YOU find some actual story cutscene to prove that Shadow can't use Chaos Control without the Emeralds?

Oh and about that supposedly being a spur of the moment where she was flustered, well that goes to show that she wasn't thinking straight, during which she really did mean what she said. Of course in such a mental state, it didn't take that strong an argument to shock her back to reality with Sonic's "just smile" , but the way the writing was handled makes it apparent she meant every word, and I've yet to see any straightforward evidence contradicting such when it comes to Elise.

You are literally admitting that she didn't mean any of it and you're still trying to push the fact that she actually felt that way? And you would acknowledge the fact she did most of the thinking to change her mind yet she still assume she's a self centered person?

Stop moving goalposts, and just drop it because you've already agreed, yet you're still arguing about it for no reason.

March 23, 2015

You are seriously grasping at straws here, why would Black Doom leave the emeralds there if he still needs them to transform?

That's something you'll have to explain in a more relevant thread since he actually did do just that in the second cutscene. Again your theory, is far too open for debate for it to hold water since.

The fact that you only have an interview with Sega to prove your case is something to note as well since. How about YOU find some actual story cutscene to prove that Shadow can't use Chaos Control without the Emeralds?

Actually the case of your opposition has actual official words with people in charge of the franchise in addition Shadow never pulling off chaos control without an emerald in SA2, 06 pretty much slapping you in the face with how even Shadow requires a chaos emerald for time travel, a component of true chaos control, Shadow explaining, to to Silver that he can use chaos control WITH the use of the emerald, etc. Now, in the case that you've somehow forgotten about scenes, you could feel free to bring up them up and actually explain your notion that Shadow is actually capable of chaos control without an emerald, but is apparently too dumb to use this alleged magical ability in later games.

If Shadow in the actual lore could do chaos control without an emerald, there'd be an actual cutscene or even an official manual or database confirming he could do such. However, as the reality of the situation decides, they do the exact opposite and make evident that Shadow can't do true chaos control without an emerald.

Funny how one who loves 06 so much could miss such details emphasized in 06. Speaking of which.

Going back to Amy and Elise's respective lowest points in the game where they'd choose Sonic over the fate of the world, while in Elise's case, I can see that being the intent considering the build-up of her and Sonic's relationship, I can't help but wonder if in Amy's case that was actually a severe mis-translation.

Blaze is a part of Sonic 06, canon or not

And the significance of this is? There's no arguments of Blaze the Cat actually appearing in 06; it's undeniable that she did. Granted it

March 25, 2015

That's something you'll have to explain in a more relevant thread since he actually did do just that in the second cutscene. Again your theory, is far too open for debate for it to hold water since.

No, that actually isn't what he did. He dropped the Emeralds after he was done transforming. But like I said before, the last cutscene he still had use for said Emeralds. Also, I love how you blatantly ignored this:

On top of that why would Shadow just give them right back when he's done with the stage?

Actually the case of your opposition has actual official words with people in charge of the franchise in addition Shadow never pulling off chaos control without an emerald in SA2, 06 pretty much slapping you in the face with how even Shadow requires a chaos emerald for time travel, a component of true chaos control, Shadow explaining, to to Silver that he can use chaos control WITH the use of the emerald, etc. Now, in the case that you've somehow forgotten about scenes, you could feel free to bring up them up and actually explain your notion that Shadow is actually capable of chaos control without an emerald, but is apparently too dumb to use this alleged magical ability in later games.

(In Reply to the underlined)

Yet it's never explicitly stated that he can't do such without an Emerald, so this argument is superfluous.

(In Reply to italicized)

After all of this, you still haven't brought up anything that stomps into the ground the idea that Shadow can't use Chaos Control without the Emeralds. The fact of the matter is, Shadow doesn't need to use it in any other circumstances other than those dire instances, like the final level in ShTH.

If Shadow in the actual lore could do chaos control without an emerald, there'd be an actual cutscene or even an official manual or database confirming he could do such. However, as the reality of the situation decides, they do the exact opposite and make evident that Shadow can't do true chaos control without an emerald.

So, you're pretty much just saying that you can't find a cutscene where the game says that Shadow can't use Chaos Control without an Emerald? I mean he even has Chaos Powers in the spinoff RoL where there are no Chaos Emeralds whatsoever.

What significance would saying he can use Chaos Control without Emeralds even hold? Shadow is the Go-to guy for everything Chaos Oriented so it wouldn't be too far fetched to outright assume such.

Funny how one who loves 06 so much could miss such details emphasized in 06. Speaking of which.

What are you talking about? You still haven't even brought in anything that detriments my argument other than an interview with Sega officials. And on that note:

And the significance of this is? There's no arguments of Blaze the Cat actually appearing in 06; it's undeniable that she did. Granted it

Well, there's Sonic Generations with their heavily alluding quotes from Blaze.

Then there's Sonic Colors DS that explicitly state that Silver and Blaze knew each other in one instance.

Then there's her showing up quite randomly in Sonic Generations to something so trivial as a Birthday Party.

Isn't supposed to be apart of the Sol Dimension like Iizuka said?

The fact that this has been so inconsistent especially when coming from the Sega officials, shows that it has little merit.

Going back to Amy and Elise's respective lowest points in the game where they'd choose Sonic over the fate of the world, while in Elise's case, I can see that being the intent considering the build-up of her and Sonic's relationship, I can't help but wonder if in Amy's case that was actually a severe mis-translation.

Right.

March 25, 2015

No, that actually isn't what he did. He dropped the Emeralds after he was done transforming. But like I said before, the last cutscene he still had use for said Emeralds.

Wait, you claim he dropped them like a klutz, after supposedly using them, even though that contradicts the facts spotted:

Devil Doom is one of the few final bosses not to use the power of the seven Chaos Emeralds for transformation. Doom says during the battle that he underestimated the true power of the Emeralds.

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Devil_Doom

and also the fact that there is no sign, hinting or even confirmation of Doom using the emeralds in the final fight, and thus make him out to be an idiot akin to Mephiles' idiocy in 06 when Solaris just leaves the chaos emeralds for the heroes?

You do know that you're kinda making these stories sound even dumber while trying to prove your Shadow chaos control theory right?

No, that actually isn't what he did. He dropped the Emeralds after he was done transforming. But like I said before, the last cutscene he still had use for said Emeralds. Also, I love how you blatantly ignored this:

(In Reply to the underlined)

Yet it's never explicitly stated that he can't do such without an Emerald, so this argument is superfluous.

(In Reply to italicized)

After all of this, you still haven't brought up anything that stomps into the ground the idea that Shadow can't use Chaos Control without the Emeralds. The fact of the matter is, Shadow doesn't need to use it in any other circumstances other than those dire instances, like the final level in ShTH.

So, you're pretty much just saying that you can't find a cutscene where the game says that Shadow can't use Chaos Control without an Emerald? I mean he even has Chaos Powers in the spinoff RoL where there are no Chaos Emeralds whatsoever.

What significance would saying he can use Chaos Control without Emeralds even hold? Shadow is the Go-to guy for everything Chaos Oriented so it wouldn't be too far fetched to outright assume such.

What are you talking about? You still haven't even brought in anything that detriments my argument other than an interview with Sega officials. And on that note:

Let's see, numerous canon scenes, and manuals all pointing towards, and in addition to official word from SEGA, all backing the establishment that Shadow in the mainstream universe cannot perform chaos control vs one ambiguous gameplay segment that doesn't even suffice as solid, used to defend 06, on the claims that Mephiles absorbed Shadow's chaos control even though the lore of Solaris pretty much renders such a notion pointless to begin with.

Now if you have some actual bulletproof evidence of Shadow pulling off a feat, now would be the time to present it.

Well, there's Sonic Generations with their heavily alluding quotes from Blaze.

Then there's Sonic Colors DS that explicitly state that Silver and Blaze knew each other in one instance.

Then there's her showing up quite randomly in Sonic Generations to something so trivial as a Birthday Party.

Isn't supposed to be apart of the Sol Dimension like Iizuka said?

Well, nothing here outright contradicts Blaze's Rush backstory, or Iizuka's statement that she's a native of the Sol Dimension and not the future. Heck, if anything, her coming to Sonic's party is more in line with the Sol-Dimension Blaze who actually knows him and is on positive terms with him.

I mean he even has Chaos Powers in the spinoff RoL where there are no Chaos Emeralds whatsoever.

Please don't resort to using Shadow from a different off-topic universe entirely please. It doesn;t make any sense. Not to mention the fact that even in the mainstream universe, chaos powers other than Chaos Control are a separate matter from Chaos Control itself.

What significance would saying he can use Chaos Control without Emeralds even hold?

It would turn your theory into an actual fact and prove it.

it wouldn't be too far fetched to outright assume such.

Actually it would be, considering how it breaks one of the fundamental established rules of the mainstream universe.

March 25, 2015

Wait, you claim he dropped them like a klutz, after supposedly using them, even though that contradicts the facts spotted:

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Devil_Doom

and also the fact that there is no sign, hinting or even confirmation of Doom using the emeralds in the final fight, and thus make him out to be an idiot akin to Mephiles' idiocy in 06 when Solaris just leaves the chaos emeralds for the heroes?

I admit that I was wrong about Black Doom using the Emeralds to transform but you're STILL ignoring the fact that Shadow is opposing Black Doom, yet would still just hand over the Emeralds.

You do know that you're kinda making these stories sound even dumber while trying to prove your Shadow chaos control theory right?

How might I ask? Oh, you mean by literally pointing out what's already been grounded in canon, and looking at the underlying facts? Wouldn't that mean that they were already that stupid and you're just trying to use that as a scapegoat to insult me? lel, try again.

Let's see, numerous canon scenes, and manuals all pointing towards, and in addition to official word from SEGA, all backing the establishment that Shadow in the mainstream universe cannot perform chaos control vs one ambiguous gameplay segment that doesn't even suffice as solid, used to defend 06, on the claims that Mephiles absorbed Shadow's chaos control even though the lore of Solaris pretty much renders such a notion pointless to begin with.

(In reply to underlined)

Yet you simply refuse to list them... hmm... I wonder why.

As for the rest, none of these debunk the idea that shadow can't use it without the Emeralds (except the aforementioned Sega 'official word' that I already replied to), they just make it clear that he can do that with the Emeralds. You've yet to show me a cutscene where it outright says that he can't and you know this, which is evident by you constantly shying away from doing so.

Now if you have some actual bulletproof evidence of Shadow pulling off a feat, now would be the time to present it.

I believe that's your job this time around.

Well, nothing here outright contradicts Blaze's Rush backstory, or Iizuka's statement that she's a native of the Sol Dimension and not the future. Heck, if anything, her coming to Sonic's party is more in line with the Sol-Dimension Blaze who actually knows him and is on positive terms with him.

It's superfluous to bring up the idea that she isn't from the future since she mentions her ties to 06's future, and the fact that Silver appears in the game as well. Not only that, but you'd think that being a part of a different dimension would imply that just shifting dimensions would be very difficult (especially considering Sonic Rush and Sonic Rush Adventure's allusions to such), so how would she be able to do that for something so formal as a birthday party, or to check out Eggman's interstellar amusement park? That sounds like an inconsistency to me.

Actually it would be, considering how it breaks one of the fundamental established rules of the mainstream universe.

Fundamental established rules?

You mean that of an inconsistent source?

It would turn your theory into an actual fact and prove it.

From a plot's standpoint, what point would it prove?

March 26, 2015

From a plot's standpoint, what point would it prove?

AN actual canon scene that would clearly actually debunk all official statements and facts given. Since none has been submitted, it appears my debate with you on why the theory of Mephiles absorbing chaos control powers from Shadow that he doesn't even have, is at it's official end until you can produce some solid proof. You might try to continue it with other tactics, but I can't promise a response to nothing short of a logical rebuttal.

It's superfluous to bring up the idea that she isn't from the future since she mentions her ties to 06's future, and the fact that Silver appears in the game as well.

By all means, actually show us an explicit, and direct confirmation of her actually for certain, leaving no room for doubt that she is in fact the Blaze you want her to be. The mere presence of Silver, is just them teaming up at best, not a confirmation that this Blaze is a native of the future.

Not only that, but you'd think that being a part of a different dimension would imply that just shifting dimensions would be very difficult (especially considering Sonic Rush and Sonic Rush Adventure's allusions to such), so how would she be able to do that for something so formal as a birthday party, or to check out Eggman's interstellar amusement park? That sounds like an inconsistency to me.

Oh dear, I'm afraid you may have forgotten another fact often well known throughout the fanbase. Blaze, very well has the ability to cross dimensions using the Sol Emeralds as was established in the Rush series. Difficult or not, she is all the same capable of doing so. Though you may not have played those, so I suppose I can see how one could've missed out on that.

*sigh*... how do I put this...

Mephiles's complexity addiction makes no sense and was most clearly NOT an intended flaw, unlike Eggman's hubris. Again, he has SO MANY SIMPLE WAYS to fufill his goal, and he happens to choose the most complex, long-winded way to do so? All the while the story claims he's "devious" and "manpulative"? While he has numerous, less complicated ways to get what he wants WITHOUT having to go through all the long-winded shit he does?

That's not being "clever" or "devious", it's being flat out stupid.

Indeed, in fact to further build off of this, I must ask, why did he even go for the "make her cry through grief" tactic? Why not go for more practical means like, I dunno, onions, torture, or given Elise's overall frailness,a pinch?

March 26, 2015

AN actual canon scene that would clearly actually debunk all official statements and facts given. Since none has been submitted, it appears my debate with you on why the theory of Mephiles absorbing chaos control powers from Shadow that he doesn't even have, is at it's official end until you can produce some solid proof. You might try to continue it with other tactics, but I can't promise a response to nothing short of a logical rebuttal.

Oh, so you're once again shying away from actually presenting proof?

Alright, by all means.

By all means, actually show us an explicit, and direct confirmation of her actually for certain, leaving no room for doubt that she is in fact the Blaze you want her to be.

There doesn't need to be confirmation that the current blaze is from the future. The fact of the matter is, Blaze's appearance in 06 is heavily alluded, even though she is from the Sol dimension.

The mere presence of Silver, is just them teaming up at best, not a confirmation that this Blaze is a native of the future.

Oh dear, I'm afraid you may have forgotten another fact often well known throughout the fanbase. Blaze, very well has the ability to cross dimensions using the Sol Emeralds as was established in the Rush series. Difficult or not, she is all the same capable of doing so. Though you may not have played those, so I suppose I can see how one could've missed out on that.

What do you mean difficult or not? It's practically impossible, only under rare circumstances were Sonic (and Tails) or Blaze was capable of shifting dimensions, and on top of that, Sonic Rush makes it evident that the dimension become unbalanced when both Blaze and Sonic are in one dimension.

Indeed, in fact to further build off of this, I must ask, why did he even go for the "make her cry through grief" tactic? Why not go for more practical means like, I dunno, onions, torture, or given Elise's overall frailness,a pinch?

Do you know what he did in the end? He just up and stabbed Sonic when he was next to her.

Everything before that was to get Shadow on his Side, and to get the Chaos Emeralds (which is evident by him searching and collecting the Chaos Emerald in Dusty Desert). Silver was just a side job.

March 27, 2015

Ah, it appears that on your quest to try and defend 06, you've glazed over and forgotten that Sonic Rush Adventure doesn't have the universe in constant flux and even goes on to establish that either the chaos or sol emeralds can be used to cross into each other's dimension at will.

Also, DBZ, I must ask, do yuo deny the presence of a scene in Colors DS that actually explains that Blaze still did come from the Sol dimension when one of the sol emeralds started glowing? If so, it would appear that you cherry-picked that scene from Colors DS without remembering to add that despite the cute reference at best, it doesn't substitute the actual presented lore fact that Blaze came from the Sol Dimension.

These allusive references you're harping on are cute and all, but by no means are they substantial evidence to build a case of Blaze being a native of the future from.

March 28, 2015

Ah, it appears that on your quest to try and defend 06, you've glazed over and forgotten that Sonic Rush Adventure doesn't have the universe in constant flux and even goes on to establish that either the chaos or sol emeralds can be used to cross into each other's dimension at will.

March 28, 2015

The problem is that your reasoning is flimsy you've still failed to show a legit contradiction that actually holds water. Shu Takumi and Yamazaki would be so disappointed.

Also yes once again you are forgetting crucial details. As you may recall, Blake's universe wasn't even out of control despite Sonic's presence there not to mention the fact that the uniVerse doesn't go out of control in Colors or Generations. Do you, as an alleged fan who's supposedly done their research also deny the presence of the scene in Rush Adventure that establishes the ability for Sonic and Blaze to visit each other? Seeing as how a lot of your argument defending 06 on this one suggest you are.

March 28, 2015

How is blatant contradiction not legit?

March 28, 2015

By this logic that would mean that her appearance in 06 is just as legit as it is in Colors.

March 28, 2015

That profile does in fact prove SEGA's words that Blaze actually is a native of the Sol Dimension. I guess I owe you thanks for putting an end to the debate there. As you may recall, nothing was ever said about it NOT being the same Blaze but of her actual place of origin.

That said, I think it's best I take another break from you, DBZHedgy, as most of the forum has at this point; this is starting to devolve into needless nitpickery.

March 28, 2015

Not really, because to IIRC all of the Sol Emeralds and Chaos Emeralds were needed for Sonic and Blaze to shift between dimensions. Blaze in Rush, and Sonic in Rush Adventure, yet in Sonic Colors she simply says that one Sol Emerald transported her there. Even if it wasn't one and I just misread, previous games still made it clear that the Chaos Emeralds and Sol Emeralds were necessary to perform this feat. Not to mention she didn't even want to, it just happened by accident.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Celestia

April 1, 2015

Official Sonic 2006 topic

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