Official Sonic 2006 topic

[DBZHedgy]

So this argument is because I acknowledged it as the fan remake that it is? How unnecessary. It's a fan remake tailored to Generations' mechanics not some port that doesn't change anything in the level structures. The video itself shows such.

Although it does appear to be moving towards fixing several of 06's follies, so I'll give it that.

No, this argument points out the fact that Sonic 06's level design can and does work.

Regardless, sparing the boost, Sonic Generations plays very similarly to Sonic 06, so 'tailoring it' to Generations wouldn't be saying much.

 

You've yet to show instances of rock positions and set pieces that shows a change in the level design that was specifically meant for Sonic as well.

 

On top of that, what follies does BrianuuuSonic actually alleviate? The entirety of Wash Ocean until Tails' part is exactly the same as it was in Sonic 06. And then the Mach Speed section is exactly the same too.

[GUILD]

Glad it's not real lol. Don't know why there's so many even clamouring for a remake. That's like asking for a Superman 64 Remastered or something!

Well...06 was a game that could have been awesome and looked like it was going to be awesome, but was terrible because it was rushed and broken. I think everyone can acknowledge that it looked cool before they played it and realized that it wasn't finished in a few categories and that the plot could use some refining.. That was the thing about 06. It was a big deal too. I don't think 06 would have been such a terrible event if it had looked such a basic game in the beginning and wasn't pumped up so much for the occassion, but that wasn't the case. It was Sonic's 15th anniversary game and everyone was dissapointed and let down. Superman 64 was just terrible at the base level, even as an idea. There was nothing redeeming even in the concept. ._. You can't compare the two. It's like saying that asking for a remake of the Last Airbender movie is the same as asking for a remake of Freddy Got Fingered.

[Drawloverlala]

... in Sonic generations where various things that were actually improved from Sonic 06 scenario.... just like Silver rival battle..

it wouldn't have been the same if they had concerved the same gameplay mode from the original game..

Edited April 9, 2015 by Drawloverlala

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

Regardless, sparing the boost, Sonic Generations plays very similarly to Sonic 06, so 'tailoring it' to Generations wouldn't be saying much.

You're joking. You must be because I can't imagine anyone actually legit, foolishly calling the Generations gameplay that can actually homing attack proper, has a faster default speed, not nearly as slippery and the ability to actually defeat enemies in a single jump as opposed to having to homing attack them, among other things, so similar to 06's Sonicgameplay. First time for everything I suppose.

[DBZHedgy]

You're joking. You must be because I can't imagine anyone actually legit, foolishly calling the Generations gameplay that can actually homing attack proper, has a faster default speed, not nearly as slippery and the ability to actually defeat enemies in a single jump as opposed to having to homing attack them, among other things, so similar to 06's Sonicgameplay. First time for everything I suppose.

So basically what you're saying is the only difference is Sonic's ability to Jump Attack...?

Literally everything else was wishy-washy nitpickery that doesn't even matter.

 

How exactly have these things changed the gameplay of the levels ported to Generations with the exception of the Mach Speed sections? 

I'd wager all you could say is an increase of speed and a more fine tuned character. 

[DaBatGuy]

So basically what you're saying is the only difference is Sonic's ability to Jump Attack...?

Literally everything else was wishy-washy nitpickery that doesn't even matter.

 

How exactly have these things changed the gameplay of the levels ported to Generations with the exception of the Mach Speed sections? 

I'd wager all you could say is an increase of speed and a more fine tuned character. 

 

No:

-Gens sonic has slower acceleration and more natural turning.

 

-Gens Sonic actually has inertia in his running movement, it takes time for him slow down from top speed, 06 Sonic Stops on a dime if the Analog stick is neutral.

 

-Gens Sonic carried running momentum into his jumps, 06 Sonic had a speed cap to his jumps that was far lower than his running speed.

 

-Gens Sonic's inertia is actually affected by terrain, he goes faster down slopes, slower up slopes. 06 Sonic is infamous for walking through loops.

 

-Gens Sonic has the stomp and Light dash mapped to different buttons.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

No:

-Gens sonic has slower acceleration and more natural turning.

 

-Gens Sonic actually has inertia in his running movement, it takes time for him slow down from top speed, 06 Sonic Stops on a dime if the Analog stick is neutral.

 

-Gens Sonic carried running momentum into his jumps, 06 Sonic had a speed cap to his jumps that was far lower than his running speed.

 

-Gens Sonic's inertia is actually affected by terrain, he goes faster down slopes, slower up slopes. 06 Sonic is infamous for walking through loops.

 

-Gens Sonic has the stomp and Light dash mapped to different buttons.

[DBZHedgy]

No:

-Gens sonic has slower acceleration and more natural turning.

 

-Gens Sonic actually has inertia in his running movement, it takes time for him slow down from top speed, 06 Sonic Stops on a dime if the Analog stick is neutral.

 

-Gens Sonic carried running momentum into his jumps, 06 Sonic had a speed cap to his jumps that was far lower than his running speed.

 

-Gens Sonic's inertia is actually affected by terrain, he goes faster down slopes, slower up slopes. 06 Sonic is infamous for walking through loops.

 

-Gens Sonic has the stomp and Light dash mapped to different buttons.

[Komodin]

... Okay, I'm at a loss here. What is the argument even about this time?

[DBZHedgy]

... Okay, I'm at a loss here. What is the argument even about this time?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

... Okay, I'm at a loss here. What is the argument even about this time?

[DBZHedgy]

DBZ, himself, is convinced that the level design in the fan remake made by Brianuu is the same as 06's despite the differences. And to try and prove his point, he's touting a blind generalization, claiming that the only difference between 06 Sonic and Generations Sonic's gameplay is that Sonic in Generations is programmed better and has the boost.

Therein lies the source of the conflict. Silly as it may be.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Come again? What's this new tangent about level design reacting to Sonic???? Please elucidate.

[DBZHedgy]

How exactly have these things changed the gameplay of the levels ported to Generations with the exception of the Mach Speed sections? 

I'd wager all you could say is an increase of speed and a more fine tuned character. 

 

 

 

Has any of the level design caused Generations Sonic to react differently to the level design of 06? Not unless you count how Sonic & friends react to loops.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Again, this didn't quite make sense. Could you please explain it?

[DBZHedgy]

At first, you made the conjecture that Sonic 06's level design doesn't work, and that it was tailored to Generations' playstyle in order to play properly. As such, I brought up how similar Gens Sonic plays when compared to 06 Sonic, and used how each iterations of Sonic react to the level design to prove this, as well as the fact that the only changes the stage design ever got was exclusively in parts that were meant for different characters, such as Tails' or Shadow's part of Wave Ocean.

 

Or in short, you didn't explain how Gens Sonic being different affected the level design, and as a result how and why it needed to be changed.

[DaBatGuy]

Like I said, nothing more than a polished character when compared to 06. This doesn't deny the fact that they're similar though. 

Again, the game doesn't play any differently with Gens Sonic, and 06 Sonic. The literal only difference is Generations Sonic is better programmed. Other than that nothing. This shows since the level design doesn't differ when Generations Sonic plays through 06 designed stages. I said that here:

 

 

Has any of the level design caused Generations Sonic to react differently to the level design of 06? Not unless you count how Sonic & friends react to loops.

[DBZHedgy]

Does that actually change how the level is played though? Aside from the aforementioned loops due to bad momentum in 06 that is.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

If you're just looking at the surface level components of a Sonic game(he goes fast, he collects rings, he has a homing attack, he has a light dash) then yes 06 and Generations are exactly the same, hell every 3D game from Adventure to Lost World is the same. However the inclusion of actual momentum and inertia to Sonic's movement radically changes how platforming is approached in the two games.

[DBZHedgy]

Indeed, with basic concepts like proper momentum, inertia, and a wider array of skills, the levels are constructed differently to work better for the different skill sets!

 

Sort of like, how the levels in Colors on the Wii are transformed when you go Super Sonic, to allow you to proceed to certain areas even without the Wisps.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

What changes are you referring to?

[DBZHedgy]

Haven't you been paying attention?  The changes to the platforming techniques and arrangements that come with the different gameplay styles of Sonic T, Hedgehog.

You know that isn't what I was referring to. Hence my purpose for underlining this:

the levels are constructed differently to work better for the different skill sets!

 

And what do you know, you still didn't actually show anything that confirmed this statement.

If you need me to say it blatantly then How has the level designed changed to better suit Gens Sonic, and specifically mention these instances.

 

 

Now, perhaps you can make light of your rationale and perhaps explain your view on this. Because if the different gameplay eras of Sonic are as similar as you claim they are, there would be proof of Sonic without any modifications made whatsoever being able to handle both just the same.

 

However, considering the fact that with the use of the Generations style engine, the levels are still changed to sync with Generations Sonic for Brianuuu's project, your lack of proof also sort of left your argument a mess to understand , let alone agree with.

...I already provided evidence proving this though, Gens Sonic being capable of even remotely playing through 06's design is a testament to this.

If what you were saying is true, There would need to be HEAVY changes in the level design to make it possible for Gens Sonic to play through it properly, but once again, that isn't the case, not even in the slightest.

 

You keep pushing this argument but there is literally no backup.

Here, I'll help you.

Here's a video of Brianuuu's project.

 

Now is there any parts of it that are changed that aren't in Tails section?

[Aside from the obvious first part that was original to Brianuuu's project]

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

AH, so I was right, Brinauuu does implement set pieces from Generations as well. I'm afraid I can;t allow to weasel out with the "HEAVY changes" excuse since the amount of change does not undo the fact that there still had to be notable changes made. It's a retailored level, made more so in Generations style that allows the usage of Generations Sonic's abilities, including the boosting on water. Set pieces such as the fan, dash pads, the Eggman pads and more are there too, coming with the Generations. It seems you've once again presented me with the evidence I need once agai-

Gens Sonic being capable of even remotely playing through 06's design is a testament to this.

 

 

 

Woah woah, HOLD IT! You're telling me that your rationale is that Gens Sonic being able to clear an 06 level makes their gameplay styles automatically similar!? Geebus! That nonsensically insane! You may as well be claiming that NiGHTS' gameplay is similar just because he could clear a Sonic stage by flying with logic as generalizing and unstable as that!

[DBZHedgy]

AH, so I was right, Brinauuu does implement set pieces from Generations as well. I'm afraid I can;t allow to weasel out with the "HEAVY changes" excuse since the amount of change does not undo the fact that there still had to be notable changes made. It's a retailored level, made more so in Generations style that allows the usage of Generations Sonic's abilities, including the boosting on water. Set pieces such as the fan, dash pads, the Eggman pads and more are there too, coming with the Generations. It seems you've once again presented me with the evidence I need once agai-

lol are you serious?

First, those set pieces used don't change how the level was meant to be played, in fact, in previous versions, those very things were absent and it played just the same. You're obviously grasping at straws here. If anything it just adds a little pizazz to the experience.

Second, are you saying changing a spring into a fan in one instance, and changing dash pads into their completely identical alternative version in Generations is actually changing the level design? And are you saying that the ability to Run on water actually changes the level design, even though Sonic sliding on Water replicates exactly how it's used in Generations?

 

These changes are not significant enough to make the stance that 06's level design MUST be changed to work.

If you were to take, say, Sonic and the Secret Rings and port it to Sonic Generations, it would play completely differently, and it would require editing for it to play properly. Because guess what? SatSR Sonic actually plays differently when compared to Generations Sonic.

 

Woah woah, HOLD IT! You're telling me that your rationale is that Gens Sonic being able to clear an 06 level makes their gameplay styles automatically similar!? Geebus! That nonsensically insane! You may as well be claiming that NiGHTS' gameplay is similar just because he could clear a Sonic stage by flying with logic as generalizing and unstable as that!

See the Sonic and the Secret Rings analogy. It can also apply to Sonic and the Black Knight.

Have you seen these games' stages ported to Generations yet? 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

lol are you serious?

First, those set pieces used don't change how the level was meant to be played,

"Meant to be played" is a different story from the actual execution. Don't kid yourself there.

 

 Because guess what? SatSR Sonic actually plays differently when compared to Generations Sonic.

 

As does 06, a fact that everyone here but you appears to recognize.

 

Have you seen these games' stages ported to Generations yet? 

If by porting, you mean remade from the ground up like the levels in Brianuuu's Sonic 06 project, then yeah, sure. I've seen 'em "ported".